2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Workshop

[annaswirls]

A question about Monologues i.e do they rhyme? There was a English comedian Stanley Holloway famous for his monologues many years ago and his did so can mine too?

I do not see any reason it should or should not rhyme... it is an inspiration trigger not a form. Write it how you like to write, whatever feels right to you. Have fun with this one! No holds barred!

 

[Safe_Bet]

Lauren, Trigger # 29 (includes the phrase "lesbian counter-attacks") is the best trigger EVER!!!

Any ideas on how to improve that last line a bit?

Tis past the time for us to rebel
And send our foes a fond fair well
To guide their women upon their backs
And teach the joy of lesbian counter-attacks

Marching against the centuries of male domination
Armies of lesbians will now show their fearsome might
No man shall prevail against their Sapphoric delight

Desperate for equality from those humans called “Mister”
In courts and in public we now challenge their rule
Cunnilingus has subverted the love of their sister
Knowing what they need is our most powerful tool
Soon every chick will want a woman to love and to fist her!

 

[NorthernPA4U]

Lauren, Trigger # 29 (includes the phrase "lesbian counter-attacks") is the best trigger EVER!!!

Any ideas on how to improve that last line a bit?

Tis past the time for us to rebel
And send our foes a fond fair well
To guide their women upon their backs
And teach the joy of lesbian counter-attacks

Marching against the centuries of male domination
Armies of lesbians will now show their fearsome might
No man shall prevail against their Sapphoric delight

Desperate for equality from those humans called “Mister”
In courts and in public we now challenge their rule
Cunnilingus has subverted the love of their sister
Knowing what they need is our most powerful tool
Soon every chick will want a woman to love and to fist her!

My goodness, I am ALSO working on "Lesbian counter-attacks," but it is not at all like this.

I could be wrong, but you may not like mine ... unless you are a football fan.

 

[annaswirls]

My goodness, I am ALSO working on "Lesbian counter-attacks," but it is not at all like this.

I could be wrong, but you may not like mine ... unless you are a football fan.

I don't know about that title. I am not sure where to go with it. I might have some lesbians attacking my kitchen counters with some Chlorox multi-surface and sponges. It really could use a good cleaning.

 

[annaswirls]

oh my god I wrote my first sonnet.
I am taking a nap. Wake me for the reviews.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I don't know about that title. I am not sure where to go with it. I might have some lesbians attacking my kitchen counters with some Chlorox multi-surface and sponges. It really could use a good cleaning.

hehehehehe

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Is this an improvement at all ...

cervine statues
ice-glazed crust crunches --
white tailed plumes erect

I do like it - the image it evokes - but I can't help but feel that there are way too many syllables being used to still feel like a haiku should, you know?

 

[NorthernPA4U]

I do like it - the image it evokes - but I can't help but feel that there are way too many syllables being used to still feel like a haiku should, you know?

Yeah, I know ... I am trying to come up with the perfect reduction, but haven't got it quite yet. That's why I haven't submitted it.

And yet, while I know it is not the same in English, there is the 5-7-5 Japanese pattern. I keep hearing in that in my head when I say to myself "reduce"

I could take out "tailed" and leave "white plumes erect"

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Yeah, I know ... I am trying to come up with the perfect reduction, but haven't got it quite yet. That's why I haven't submitted it.

I could take out "tailed" and leave "white plumes erect"

I was going to suggest this

deer statues
ice glaze crunches --
white plumes drift

but then it occurred to me, shouldn't the crunch come before they turn to statues?

 

[NorthernPA4U]

I was going to suggest this

deer statues
ice glaze crunches --
white plumes drift

but then it occurred to me, shouldn't the crunch come before they turn to statues?

Although they are almost always quite still, probably it should ... I'm trying to figure out how to capture the cause-and-effect, the before-and-after, in just one picture. It's HARD

 

[champagne1982]

I was going to suggest this

deer statues
ice glaze crunches --
white plumes drift

but then it occurred to me, shouldn't the crunch come before they turn to statues?

Although they are almost always quite still, probably it should ... I'm trying to figure out how to capture the cause-and-effect, the before-and-after, in just one picture. It's HARD

Deer statues
cold crunch
white feathers
statues could be taken as a verb and noun
crunch the same
and I always think of exhaust as feathering in such crisp weather.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

snow crunches
deer alert!
white plumes and gone

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I know it's not enough lines (as yet) but is this blank verse? If not why not and I promise not to get huffy again !

There's flowers and corpses on my windowsill
sweet honeysuckle seeks to climb from wall
embracing into the very hearth and home,
bringing with her sweet scented showers
of blooms in massed profusion, but also alas
there crawls upon her leaves those which
cannot live their lives in any other way
than in the freedom of the very open air
she scorns, and now lie wasted and bereft

 

[loganforester]

Help requested.

Ok I know I suck at writing in proper meter, so what are your thoughts on this rough draft of a cinquain.

My pair
Taken from me
By the dryer monster
Never to be ... reunited
Help us.



Yes I'm writing from the perspective of a sock.

 

[annaswirls]

Ok I know I suck at writing in proper meter, so what are your thoughts on this rough draft of a cinquain.

My pair
Taken from me
By the dryer monster
Never to be ... reunited
Help us.



Yes I'm writing from the perspective of a sock.

Ha I live this poem every week.

Nice job.

How about "my mate" as pair means two were taken.

Why the ...?

It would work without.

Great job!

 

[loganforester]

Ha I live this poem every week.

Nice job.

How about "my mate" as pair means two were taken.

Why the ...?

It would work without.

Great job!

Thanks for the help. I think you're right, mate would work better. To say I'm unsure of myself around form poems would be a huge understatement.

Yeah I guess that pause really isn't necessary for flow is it?

 

[pushkine]

I know it's not enough lines (as yet) but is this blank verse? If not why not and I promise not to get huffy again !

There's flowers and corpses on my windowsill
sweet honeysuckle seeks to climb from wall
embracing into the very hearth and home,
bringing with her sweet scented showers
of blooms in massed profusion, but also alas
there crawls upon her leaves those which
cannot live their lives in any other way
than in the freedom of the very open air
she scorns, and now lie wasted and bereft

Note: all of the following is my opinion. I am no expert in poetic form, nor even competent in analyzing same.

That said, whether something is blank verse or not is often hard to tell. There is no official Blank Verse—the term merely means unrhymed verse written in a particular accentual-syllabic meter. You haven't said what meter you're attempting here, but I am assuming that you're trying to write in iambic pentameter.

Hearing the meter is not something that's easy to do, witness this exchange between Eve and Angeline:

Eve: "Resolute in thrall of flesh yielding heat." I'm kind of leaning toward this line having one too many syllables.

Angeline: I know what you mean about the syllables in that one line. I was being iambic, but if I try to publish it elsewhere, I think I'll redo that line!​

The problem is, I cannot, however hard I try, read that line as even vaguely iambic. Pure iambic pentameter would put the stresses like this: Resolute in thrall of flesh yielding heat.

I know we have different accents, but that seems extreme. I hear the line as Resolute in thrall of flesh yielding heat, so four stresses and podic, but I'm influenced there by the rest of the poem, which seems basically stress-based tetrameter, not pentameter.

Angeline is a really good poet, so if she thinks she's being iambic there, it's hard to hear. (Or, I may simply be delusional and hearing things, which is perhaps the more likely possibility.)

In any case, blank verse almost never rigidly follows meter. That makes it sound too sing-song (one of my problems). If you read the example Lauren posted for blank verse, I hear the line "Be not her maid, since she is envious" as beginning with a trochee, not an iamb (though one could probably read it as an iamb).

Anyway. Your sample. Here's how I hear it, with the stressed syllables in bold:

There's flowers and corpses on my windowsill (4 stresses, so not pentameter; also 11 syllables)
sweet honeysuckle seeks to climb from wall (Perfect iambic pentameter)
embracing into the very hearth and home, (5 stresses, mostly iambic with one inversion; 11 syllables)
bringing with her sweet scented showers (5 stresses, mostly inverted; 9 syllables)
of blooms in massed profusion, but also alas (6 stresses, 12 syllables, one inversion)
there crawls upon her leaves those which (iambic, but only 8 syllables, so short an iamb)
cannot live their lives in any other way (6 stresses, 11 syllables, essentially all inverted)
than in the freedom of the very open air (iambic, but 12 syllables and, so, sextameter)
she scorns, and now lie wasted and bereft (I get this line as iambic pentameter as well)​

So, all in all, not that far off, I don't think. You need to move things around a bit, and I know that will be difficult as you said you can't hear the stresses. (Don't take the above as gospel, either. I hear things the way I hear things and others may hear it differently.)

 

[annaswirls]

Thanks for the help. I think you're right, mate would work better. To say I'm unsure of myself around form poems would be a huge understatement.

Yeah I guess that pause really isn't necessary for flow is it?

You sure seem to know your way around the forms from what I have seen. You are a natural I suppose! Your name is so cute. I wish I could have another son and name him Logan Forester. It is perfect.

But no more babies no more babies no more babies (please chant for me)

I am working on the Valentines challenge. I really am doing the Valentines Day massacre. I have been researching-- and actually found a LOVE story in there!!! With a little digging, I think I might have enough for a poem. Whooho!!! I love google.

 

[annaswirls]

Note: all of the following is my opinion. I am no expert in poetic form, nor even competent in analyzing same.

......

(Don't take the above as gospel, either. I hear things the way I hear things and others may hear it differently.)

You are as expert as we get around here. I hope you do not mind, but I am going to follow you around and every time you give your disclaimer I am going to follow it with a stop it! You are the word! You are the gospel so shush and accept it!



I think I make you grumpy and I am sorry for that. I am trying to be good. Something about you makes me want to give you tickle torture. I can't help it.

 

[loganforester]

You sure seem to know your way around the forms from what I have seen. You are a natural I suppose! Your name is so cute. I wish I could have another son and name him Logan Forester. It is perfect.

But no more babies no more babies no more babies (please chant for me)

I am working on the Valentines challenge. I really am doing the Valentines Day massacre. I have been researching-- and actually found a LOVE story in there!!! With a little digging, I think I might have enough for a poem. Whooho!!! I love google.

Thanks again anna. It's a real struggle for me, but I'm happy to be doing ok with it. Glad you like the name, pen names are so much better than real names since I got to choose it myself instead of relying on my parents.

Yeah, I have th Valentines one up next, it'll be a love poem of sorts, with a twist. There's always a twist in my writing, hence why my editor says my mind is twisted. lol. I hope you have good success with yours. Terzanelles can be a real challenge with the repeating sections.

 

[annaswirls]

Thanks again anna. It's a real struggle for me, but I'm happy to be doing ok with it. Glad you like the name, pen names are so much better than real names since I got to choose it myself instead of relying on my parents.

Yeah, and I am sorry your parent's gave you such an odd color-- was your mom red and your dad blue? And that hair! You poor guy.

Yeah, I have th Valentines one up next, it'll be a love poem of sorts, with a twist. There's always a twist in my writing, hence why my editor says my mind is twisted. lol. I hope you have good success with yours. Terzanelles can be a real challenge with the repeating sections.

What is your most twisted story? I like twisted.

 

[loganforester]

Yeah, and I am sorry your parent's gave you such an odd color-- was your mom red and your dad blue? And that hair! You poor guy.



What is your most twisted story? I like twisted.

Yeah, that's what happens when your dad's the devil and he marries smurfette. On the bright side, family gatherings are alot of fun.

The only story I have posted so far is my novel, linked in my sig. It's erotic horror/dark fantasy though, not exactly everyone's taste. But it does have lots of twists and turns.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Note: all of the following is my opinion. I am no expert in poetic form, nor even competent in analyzing same.

That said, whether something is blank verse or not is often hard to tell. There is no official Blank Verse—the term merely means unrhymed verse written in a particular accentual-syllabic meter. You haven't said what meter you're attempting here, but I am assuming that you're trying to write in iambic pentameter.

Hearing the meter is not something that's easy to do, witness this exchange between Eve and Angeline:

Eve: "Resolute in thrall of flesh yielding heat." I'm kind of leaning toward this line having one too many syllables.

Angeline: I know what you mean about the syllables in that one line. I was being iambic, but if I try to publish it elsewhere, I think I'll redo that line!​

The problem is, I cannot, however hard I try, read that line as even vaguely iambic. Pure iambic pentameter would put the stresses like this: Resolute in thrall of flesh yielding heat.

I know we have different accents, but that seems extreme. I hear the line as Resolute in thrall of flesh yielding heat, so four stresses and podic, but I'm influenced there by the rest of the poem, which seems basically stress-based tetrameter, not pentameter.

Angeline is a really good poet, so if she thinks she's being iambic there, it's hard to hear. (Or, I may simply be delusional and hearing things, which is perhaps the more likely possibility.)

In any case, blank verse almost never rigidly follows meter. That makes it sound too sing-song (one of my problems). If you read the example Lauren posted for blank verse, I hear the line "Be not her maid, since she is envious" as beginning with a trochee, not an iamb (though one could probably read it as an iamb).

Anyway. Your sample. Here's how I hear it, with the stressed syllables in bold:

There's flowers and corpses on my windowsill (4 stresses, so not pentameter; also 11 syllables)
sweet honeysuckle seeks to climb from wall (Perfect iambic pentameter)
embracing into the very hearth and home, (5 stresses, mostly iambic with one inversion; 11 syllables)
bringing with her sweet scented showers (5 stresses, mostly inverted; 9 syllables)
of blooms in massed profusion, but also alas (6 stresses, 12 syllables, one inversion)
there crawls upon her leaves those which (iambic, but only 8 syllables, so short an iamb)
cannot live their lives in any other way (6 stresses, 11 syllables, essentially all inverted)
than in the freedom of the very open air (iambic, but 12 syllables and, so, sextameter)
she scorns, and now lie wasted and bereft (I get this line as iambic pentameter as well)​

So, all in all, not that far off, I don't think. You need to move things around a bit, and I know that will be difficult as you said you can't hear the stresses. (Don't take the above as gospel, either. I hear things the way I hear things and others may hear it differently.)

How many syllables am I supposed to have then? I do have a syllable counter

 

[NorthernPA4U]

How many syllables am I supposed to have then? I do have a syllable counter

Well, there is not a standard amount in blank verse. You decide what you want (if pentameter, 10 ... if tetrameter, 8 ... you could have three sets of dactyls for 9 in a line, etc.)

What do you feel comfortable writing? One of the reasons English speaking poets write in iambic pentameter so often is the language lends itself to alternating rhyming syllables, so I'd recommend going with 8, 10, or 12 syllables in a line, but it should be about what you are comfortable with.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

sigh I wish folks would use words I understand ........ long time since I was at school you know!