2011 Survivor: Plotting & Planning thread

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[Boxlicker101]

Considering that in the Holiday Contest there was a little more than 110 stories entered and that in this year's Survivor Contest a single contestant had nearly double that. In other years contestants had seven to eight times the number of stories in this year's Holiday Contest keeping track of votes on individual stories is far from doable for the Survivor Contest.

At the end of the contest year, the moderators must check the scorecards, which have gotten incredibly complex compared to several years ago. I think to ask them to track the number of votes (a number that varies throughout the year and could argueably vary from day to day) would be simply too much to ask especially when you consider what the vote count really indicates. What is doable for a relatively small amount of stories is simply not doable when you consider everything else the moderators are burdened with for this contest.

The vote count is not an indicator of the number of reads a story gets, nor is it an indicator of quality. It may be an indicator of individual author popularity or how much an author post to forums, but I think everyone agrees that should not influence a survivor score.

The objective of the survivor contest is clearly stated as: To write as many new and original stories in as many different categories listed on the main story index in the course of the year as possible. The number of votes a story has does nothing to influence, support or have anything to do with the objective of the contest.

The reason there is a minimum vote requirement for the special contests is because the winner is decided by those votes and it should be reasonable to expect that for a story to compete the scoring should be based upon a minimum representative rating for the story. Survivor scoring is not based upon the voting in face the number of votes any entered story gets is completely irrelevant to the contest.

With respect to vote count for stories I think we should leave the rules as they stand.

AT

The comparison is even tougher than you stated. In a theme contest, the only stories that have to have a minimum of votes are the winners. Laurel just has to look at the top three stories and, if they have enough votes, they are the winner. The fourth place finisher is out of the money anyhow, so nobody cares how many votes it accumulated.

In additiion to that, there are stories submitted right at the deadline, Dec. 31, and they don't always have enough time to collect the suggested minimum number of votes before the time is up, especially if they are in unpopular categories.

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

You know as well as I do why the chapter rule was implemented, and who caused it to happen. This person I refer to did what you say - cut rambling stories into multiple parts and posted them separately. Some of them did go into different categories.

The contest moderators have nothing to do with where stories go. That is up to Laurel or somebody working for her. You might remember that unnamed person also carping about his stories being posted to categories where he didn't want them.

I understand the need for the chapter rule, even though I don't like it. I have some stand alone stories that were considered chapters because they involved some of the same characters and were set in the same locale. Even so, the elimination of the previous abuses, I believe, outweighs anything I lose.

Just when I think I'm out of it, George pulls me back in.

"Stories being posted to categories where he didn't want them?"

Hello? George, Laurel posted my stories to the correct categories and then, they were changed to other categories by those running the surivor contest. Why? So that I'd lose. Don't believe me? Just check my sheet against the Survivor contest. One doesn't reconcile to the other.

It's funny how you only blame me for chapter stories, George, when PrincessErin was the queen of chapter stories and the reason why she wants them instated again. Duh?

Gee, I'm curious if Bakeboss will compete in 2011. Seeing that a certain someone has joined the contest, I'll willing to bet that Bakeboss comes up lame this year and "poof", disappears.

Funny how that happens.

I say we keep the chapter rule. Let's write stand alone, complete stories.

Bakeboss managed to skirt the rule of chapter by writing stories that don't fit into the categories that she wrote them in. Funny how she was allowed to write stories in any category she wanted. It makes me wonder if Bakeboss isn't one of Literotica's own, a plant, in the way she's given special treatment and in the terrible way that I was treated, when I competed in 2007 & 2008.

Yet, here we are rehashing this again in 2011 because of the posts made my two people who cannot drop it and who cannot leave me the fuck alone.

George, if you remember, I helped you get published and this is my thank you for that, you being a complete and utter asshole to me constantly and continually. You begged me to help you get your story published and I put you in contact with my publisher. Do you remember that, George. And now this.

"Et tu, Brute?"

You're just a little, ungrateful bitch of a back stabber, aren't you? You miserable piece of shit.

PrincessErin, if you remember, I allowed you to win the contest in 2008, when you sent me a PM in November telling me that your husband was unemployed and you really needed the $500 to fix your car. Oh, and I still have that PM on my BFW account, if anyone thinks I'm making this up. As evidence, if you look at BFW sheet, I stopped writing stories in December and everyone question why I stopped, but you, when I was leading and ready to win the contest.

Yet, this is how you thank me by attacking me in your first post on this thread. It's funny how your post wasn't moved to the off topic but my response was.

And I'm labeled the troublemaker. Why? Because I write too many stories and none of you misfits, not one of you, can compete against me fairly without cheating and having the support of the moderators to help you win against me.

I don't think you should allow chapter stories, but if you do, I already have more than 2 dozen, that's more than 24 stories to post in the Valentine's contest. Let me know in advance if you're going to allow chapter stories and I'll start breaking them up in the 750 word segments that George is so convinced that all my stories are and that Bakeboss routinely writes and PrincessErin wrote. It's funny how both writers had the exact same style of writing. Weird. It's probably just a coincidence. Huh?

Okay, Crimson, you can move me. I'm ready to go. Wait, just let me buckle my seat belt.

By the way, Crimson, you made a comment about my identities, SHR...BFW, whoever else I am. For the record, I know of two other identities that you have, Crimson. So, let's not play miss innocent because nearly everyone here has multiple identities.

For those who dont' know me, I am Andtheend, Bostonfictionwriter, CarBuffStuff, PositiveThinker, WmForrester, and now SuperHeroRalph, with more than 900 stories and nearly 6 million words posted and approaching 30 million hits, I am the most prolific writer, bar none, on Literotica. You'd think I'd get a little respect instead of jealously, huh Box?

My story, I Love You Mommy, written by WmForrester, me, was the most read story in 2010 with more than 600,000 hits and nearly 1,000 votes. Not bad, huh, George? What do you have, other than a negative attitude?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

The only reason I am leaving the above post in this thread and not moving it over with all of the other off topic posts is because there are one or two things I want to address, so I am leaving the original post here.

Hello? George, Laurel posted my stories to the correct categories and then, they were changed to other categories by those running the surivor contest. Why? So that I'd lose. Don't believe me? Just check my sheet against the Survivor contest. One doesn't reconcile to the other.

For the benefit of any new participants who do not understand the process, the moderators don't change or move anything. That decision is up to Laurel. Most of the time, stories are put exactly where the author chooses (even if it isn't the correct category) because the site owners, IE Laurel, do not have time to read every single submitted story. Stories with are reported using the "report this story" link or reported to the survivor moderators via pm (who then check the story out and forward the request to Laurel if need be) are then reviewed by Laurel and either left alone or changed to another category. Neither Lauren nor myself have personally moved *any* story by any participant in any contest. We don't have that kind of power.

Bakeboss managed to skirt the rule of chapter by writing stories that don't fit into the categories that she wrote them in. Funny how she was allowed to write stories in any category she wanted. It makes me wonder if Bakeboss isn't one of Literotica's own, a plant, in the way she's given special treatment and in the terrible way that I was treated, when I competed in 2007 & 2008.

I did not receive one pm listing information about any specific stories. You can blow hot air all you want, but not once did you follow procedure and send a pm with the requested info on the stories you claim don't fit in categories. And for those who are wondering, yes, that instruction was posted after one of the rants earlier this year.

By the way, Crimson, you made a comment about my identities, SHR...BFW, whoever else I am. For the record, I know of two other identities that you have, Crimson. So, let's not play miss innocent because nearly everyone here has multiple identities.

For those who dont' know me, I am Andtheend, Bostonfictionwriter, CarBuffStuff, PositiveThinker, WmForrester, and now SuperHeroRalph, with more than 900 stories and nearly 6 million words posted and approaching 30 million hits, I am the most prolific writer, bar none, on Literotica. You'd think I'd get a little respect instead of jealously, huh Box?

I really don't give a crap how many IDs you have, as long as you play fair. You want to gripe and complain about how unfair the contest is but by your own admission in the post above, you took home TWO prizes in the 2009 contest because PositiveThinker and WmForrester both placed. Now, I don't see that as fair because you kept someone else from placing who didn't enter the contest under at least four different alts (which I don't understand either since you'd have a much better chance of winning, if you really want to, if you wrote everything under ONE name instead of splitting your stories up between a bunch of IDs).

As far as my own, I have never claimed not to have any. One of my alts is publicized and well know because it's my published author name. The other is my Lit writing name, and I keep it as private as possible since being trolled mercilessly (and viciously) in a previous year's contest.

Now, can we all please act like adults and keep the thread on topic?

I know we have some for the chapter rule and some against. It is possible to have the rules set so that chapters are allowed but must meet certain criteria (such as all in the same category, etc.) Or, we can just leave it as is. That's the purpose of this thread, to decide what works best for the participants.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, I have nothing against chapters, especially the way you defined them regarding the 2009 contest. I had several entries that I thought of as stand-alone stories but that you considered to be chapters because they involved the same characters and, possibly, the same locale. I don't believe anybody would object to that kind of chapter.

What I and, I believe, most people do object to is the idea of writing a long story and cutting it up into multiple chapters, each one just barely over the minimum word count to be accepted by Lit. Therefore, what I suggest is this: Chapters are acceptable, but each has to be a minimum length, perhaps 5,000 words. Since Laurel is the person who determines the category of everything that is submitted, I don't believe there should be a requirement that the chapters should all be in the same category.

To use a series I have going as an example, I have a series going about the hot blonde student and the assistant dean at the high school she attends. The first story was in the I/T category, because it is highly taboo for an assistant dean to be sucked off by a student and excuse her transgressions in exchange. In the second, he ate her pussy and they fucked, and this was posted to E/C. The third is in the Anal category because that was tyhe kind of sex they had, because she was in her period. The third was classified as T/M because a dildo figured prominently in the DP she received. Each of these stories ccould have stood alone, but they were classified as chapters because the same people were involved all four times and they all happened in the same place. They were all about four or five thousand words.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I would argue you got screwed. Rocky is 6 separate stories. They all stand alone and they are not chapters of a larger story. I like the chapter rule as it's stated, I'm not a fan of how it's been applied thus far.

 

[Darkniciad]

I would argue you got screwed. Rocky is 6 separate stories. They all stand alone and they are not chapters of a larger story. I like the chapter rule as it's stated, I'm not a fan of how it's been applied thus far.

I just looked through them, and I have to agree -- he got screwed.

If he'd changed the names of the main characters, nobody would have batted an eyelash. The things that connect the stories could very well have been a set-up for any other stroke story on the site.

I think that perhaps the moderators need to start applying that standard when deciding whether something is a chapter or just an episodic look into the naughtier moments of a character's life.

I could go through any number of author's stories on the site, give the characters in different author's stroke stories the same names, and string them together into a loose storyline.

That doesn't make them chapters.

If the rule is that you can't use characters or settings that you've used before, then that is what the rule needs to say.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I just looked through them, and I have to agree -- he got screwed.

If he'd changed the names of the main characters, nobody would have batted an eyelash. The things that connect the stories could very well have been a set-up for any other stroke story on the site.

I think that perhaps the moderators need to start applying that standard when deciding whether something is a chapter or just an episodic look into the naughtier moments of a character's life.

I could go through any number of author's stories on the site, give the characters in different author's stroke stories the same names, and string them together into a loose storyline.

That doesn't make them chapters.

If the rule is that you can't use characters or settings that you've used before, then that is what the rule needs to say.

I think it's simpler to do what I suggested earlier. Episodes that could be strung together into a novel-length story are acceptable if they meet certain criteria. This would include having a distinct starting point and climactic moment of some kind and have a minimum number of words in each episode, such as 4,000 or 5,000. I believe the complaint about chapters was that some competitors were taking stories of several thousand words and cutting them up into multiple chapters, each one just barely the minimum length for Lit. standards, and counting each chapter as a separate item on their scoresheets.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I think a good rule of thumb would be replace all the names with something else. Would the story stand just fine on it's own if Sarah and John were Nancy and Jake? Nobody here is claiming that Rocky 6 isn't a better watch if you're familar with the charachter already but that's the point of using the same charachters and referencing past events. It's only a chapter if it doesn't make sense without what came immediately before it. Take Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions or say the Lord of the Rings Trilogy is really one 9 hour movie broken into. . . well still a bit much for one sitting.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Anyone else wish to weigh in on the immunity or chapter issue?

2010 results will be completed by the end of the day tomorrow.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Is it possible to have immunities not worth points until you've completely filled the first cap and at that point they become worth 3 points. I just happen to think that it's a little screwy as it stands.

Honestly so few people actually compete in the Survivor Contest, it's usually a dozens apply, three fight it out, another dozen half ass it and that's that. Still I think it's silly that I could have MORE stories than you and lose to you. If say two people complete the entire level one cap but one used an immunity and the other didn't the one who did is now down 5 points. So he has to write six stories spread out over three categories to make up for one immunity. Truth is I've never seen that situation even come close to happening but still.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Is it possible to have immunities not worth points until you've completely filled the first cap and at that point they become worth 3 points. I just happen to think that it's a little screwy as it stands.

Honestly so few people actually compete in the Survivor Contest, it's usually a dozens apply, three fight it out, another dozen half ass it and that's that. Still I think it's silly that I could have MORE stories than you and lose to you. If say two people complete the entire level one cap but one used an immunity and the other didn't the one who did is now down 5 points. So he has to write six stories spread out over three categories to make up for one immunity. Truth is I've never seen that situation even come close to happening but still.

In 2010, immunities were not worth any points, but they did help to get bonuses for filling ten, twenty, thirty and thirtyfive categories. Nobody has to use them, but they are useful in filling difficult categories. In my case, I expect to use them for Illustrated stories and Stories with Audio, but probably nothing else. You are right about how they can present a problem when you use them.

In the hypothetical situation you mention, the person who used the immunity would need six more stories, which could be in three or four or five or six categories. Even fewer if some were Novels/Novelettes.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Still I think six stories and remember that six stories PER immunity is a bit harsh. I also doubt that anybody is going to sit around playing year round gatherin up enough immunities to place over anybody who put any effort into competing in the tournament.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Still I think six stories and remember that six stories PER immunity is a bit harsh. I also doubt that anybody is going to sit around playing year round gatherin up enough immunities to place over anybody who put any effort into competing in the tournament.

Oh, I agree.; In the past, before the caps were put in place, it was one item in either of two different categories. In other words, to use an immunity, a contestant had only to write two stories, poems or essays. They could be in whatever two categories he or she chose to write in. The current rules rather discourage the use of immunities, which may be the idea.

And, I do like the use of caps. It forces witers to be versatile, rather than posting numerous stories to just one category.

 

[YoursSINSerely]

In 2009, I won so many immunities I didn't know where to place the next one. I think, in 2010, I only one two. The authors don't have control over the amount of immunities they win, so why punish them for winning them? A win is a win and should be treated as something special. The few that I won in 2010 didn't put me into a category of getting five extra points for writing in ten categories, but it did last year. What's the big deal? I was lucky.

 

[Algonquin Twit]

In 2009, I won so many immunities I didn't know where to place the next one. I think, in 2010, I only one two. The authors don't have control over the amount of immunities they win, so why punish them for winning them? A win is a win and should be treated as something special. The few that I won in 2010 didn't put me into a category of getting five extra points for writing in ten categories, but it did last year. What's the big deal? I was lucky.

There is no penalty or punishment for winning an immunity. If you win one you can choose whether or not to use it. If you decide to use an immunity you can fill a category without writing any stories for that category, provided you meet all the requirements for the immunity.

Since the stated purpose of the contest is to write as many stories in as many different categories as possible, awarding points to use an immunity to avoid writing for a category would be counterproductive to the purpose of the contest. If, because you choose to use an immunity instead of writing for a specific category, you must write more stories to get the same score as someone who has written in all categories, so be it. Again the purpose of the contest is not to write as many stories as possible, but to write as many in as many categories as possible.

One thought, a question arose at the end of last year's contest regarding letting a contestant withdraw an immunity once it had been selected for a category. A general ruling was made that once a contestant chooses an immunity for a category, the category is closed regardless if the contestant wants to withdraw the immunity or not. I think this ruling should also stand for a contestant who has chosen an immunity for a caegory who later does not qualify for that immunity. In other words, if a contestant chooses an immunity for Non-erotic, but later does not, for whatever reason, qualify for the immunity, they cannot go back and post stories to the Non-erotic category. The category is closed when the contestant chooses to use an immunity. This ruling would circumvent a contestant who wants to reopen a closed category from simply not posting the needed stories to use the immunity.

As for the requirement to fill a number of categories to qualify for an immunity, I would prefer we not go back to that ruling, instead use the requirement we had in the past where simply two, or three stories in several categories would qualify an immunity, not filling of one or several cap levels. That's simply my vote, I'll comply with the ruling either way.

AT

 

[Boxlicker101]

There is no penalty or punishment for winning an immunity. If you win one you can choose whether or not to use it. If you decide to use an immunity you can fill a category without writing any stories for that category, provided you meet all the requirements for the immunity.

Since the stated purpose of the contest is to write as many stories in as many different categories as possible, awarding points to use an immunity to avoid writing for a category would be counterproductive to the purpose of the contest. If, because you choose to use an immunity instead of writing for a specific category, you must write more stories to get the same score as someone who has written in all categories, so be it. Again the purpose of the contest is not to write as many stories as possible, but to write as many in as many categories as possible.

One thought, a question arose at the end of last year's contest regarding letting a contestant withdraw an immunity once it had been selected for a category. A general ruling was made that once a contestant chooses an immunity for a category, the category is closed regardless if the contestant wants to withdraw the immunity or not. I think this ruling should also stand for a contestant who has chosen an immunity for a caegory who later does not qualify for that immunity. In other words, if a contestant chooses an immunity for Non-erotic, but later does not, for whatever reason, qualify for the immunity, they cannot go back and post stories to the Non-erotic category. The category is closed when the contestant chooses to use an immunity. This ruling would circumvent a contestant who wants to reopen a closed category from simply not posting the needed stories to use the immunity.

As for the requirement to fill a number of categories to qualify for an immunity, I would prefer we not go back to that ruling, instead use the requirement we had in the past where simply two, or three stories in several categories would qualify an immunity, not filling of one or several cap levels. That's simply my vote, I'll comply with the ruling either way.

AT

The part I bolded would be moot. The immunity would not be disallowed until after the deadline for submitting stories had passed. In the past, before we had caps, posting an entry in two different categories would qualify an immunity. In 2010, it was necessary to post three items in each of two categories, which is much more difficult, and discourages the use of immunities.

 

[Algonquin Twit]

The part I bolded would be moot. The immunity would not be disallowed until after the deadline for submitting stories had passed. In the past, before we had caps, posting an entry in two different categories would qualify an immunity. In 2010, it was necessary to post three items in each of two categories, which is much more difficult, and discourages the use of immunities.

The contestant need only fill in the scorecard (prior to when the deadline for posting stories has passed) as if no immunity had been chosen. Then when the immunity is invalidated the scorecard will show a category filled in with stories. Should those stories be scored?

 

[Boxlicker101]

The contestant need only fill in the scorecard (prior to when the deadline for posting stories has passed) as if no immunity had been chosen. Then when the immunity is invalidated the scorecard will show a category filled in with stories. Should those stories be scored?

They shouldn't be, and they won't be if the mod catches on to what has been done.

This would be an unusual circumstance - somebody writing stories for a category that has already been filled by an immunity. For one thing, it would be unusual for a person to write stories for a category that has been filled already. For another things, immunities are usually applied to categories where the author doesn't like to write or lacks the facilities to post, such as Audible or Illustrated stories.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I will go with whatever the majority wants for the immunity ratio ruling... BUT

I personally have an issue with going back to only having to have 2 stories not cap levels filled to make an immunity valid because said immunity isn't taking the place of just one submission but an entire cap level (which is why the ratio was set in the first place that way).

Here's another suggestion. How about make it a 1:1 ratio? One immunity is valid per 1 cap level filled. This is kind of a compromise between the two.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I will go with whatever the majority wants for the immunity ratio ruling... BUT

I personally have an issue with going back to only having to have 2 stories not cap levels filled to make an immunity valid because said immunity isn't taking the place of just one submission but an entire cap level (which is why the ratio was set in the first place that way).

Here's another suggestion. How about make it a 1:1 ratio? One immunity is valid per 1 cap level filled. This is kind of a compromise between the two.

I would be willing to go along with the compromise, but I have to say the bonuses for ten categories etc. require only one item in a category, not three. Filling cap levels is only relevant when a person has them all filled. Other than that, they are just a way to prevent a contestant from posting a multitude of stories in a single category, which is enough to justify them, IMHO.

Now, what about chapters?

 

[Algonquin Twit]

I will go with whatever the majority wants for the immunity ratio ruling... BUT

I personally have an issue with going back to only having to have 2 stories not cap levels filled to make an immunity valid because said immunity isn't taking the place of just one submission but an entire cap level (which is why the ratio was set in the first place that way).

Here's another suggestion. How about make it a 1:1 ratio? One immunity is valid per 1 cap level filled. This is kind of a compromise between the two.

That would work, or even go to a 3 individual stories for an immunity. Whichever is easier to track. But I do think once an immunity is chosen for a category, that category should remain closed, even if the immunity is later invalidated due to too few stories.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

That would work, or even go to a 3 individual stories for an immunity. Whichever is easier to track. But I do think once an immunity is chosen for a category, that category should remain closed, even if the immunity is later invalidated due to too few stories.

Per cap would be easier for me, lol.

Box, the point is, it only takes one immunity to fill a cap level. However, writing one story (or even two at first) won't. I don't think it's a good idea to let someone fill an entire cap with an immunity when they've only written a story or two. If we do it by at least having one cap filled, then it would be even.

And yes, once an immunity is used that particular *cap level* (not the whole category) is closed and is not supposed to be filled.

Does anyone else have anything to say on immunities? Everyone agree with the 1:1 ratio change (1 cap level filled for each valid immunity)?

So, what do we wish to do about chapters? Abolish the rule completely? Modify the rule to include clarification? Modify the rule to include the use of chapters under certain conditions? I asked for ways to clarify it last year and didn't really get anywhere with it. What say you? I really would like to get all of this nailed down so the rules can be finalized.

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

Per cap would be easier for me, lol.

Box, the point is, it only takes one immunity to fill a cap level. However, writing one story (or even two at first) won't. I don't think it's a good idea to let someone fill an entire cap with an immunity when they've only written a story or two. If we do it by at least having one cap filled, then it would be even.

And yes, once an immunity is used that particular *cap level* (not the whole category) is closed and is not supposed to be filled.

Does anyone else have anything to say on immunities? Everyone agree with the 1:1 ratio change (1 cap level filled for each valid immunity)?

So, what do we wish to do about chapters? Abolish the rule completely? Modify the rule to include clarification? Modify the rule to include the use of chapters under certain conditions? I asked for ways to clarify it last year and didn't really get anywhere with it. What say you? I really would like to get all of this nailed down so the rules can be finalized.

As the purported champion of chapter stories in 2008, even though there was another writer who had more chapter stories than I had, please no chapter stories.

I'd rather have individual stories that have nothing whatsoever to do with other stories. Having chapter stories makes the competition too easy and not as challenging.

Having chapter stories, even those writers changing names, dates, and places, run the risk of becoming templated stories.

(My reverse psychology. I figure if I write that I don't want chapter stories, we'll have chapter stories and I'll easily win the 2011 Survivor contest.)

 

[Darkniciad]

You really need to clarify it if those stories Box mentioned were disqualified as chapters. On a site that's primarily stroke stories, and really what the majority of readers are probably coming here for, he got ripped off with the rule as written.

If you're not allowed to revisit characters or settings by survivor rules without having them disqualified as a chapter, then that needs to be in there.

I think that's really just penalizing people for writing stroke stories ( what most people come here to read ) and going counter to the demands of the readers ( always wanting more about the characters )

There's a difference between a chaptered story and a string of vignettes/a series.

So, what do we wish to do about chapters? Abolish the rule completely? Modify the rule to include clarification? Modify the rule to include the use of chapters under certain conditions? I asked for ways to clarify it last year and didn't really get anywhere with it. What say you? I really would like to get all of this nailed down so the rules can be finalized.