2011 Survivor: Plotting & Planning thread

[Boxlicker101]

Who's being obtuse?

We both are clearly talking about stories with the same characters or locations. And by your repeated failure to answer my questions I will take it that you fully agree that two seven hundred fifty word stories with the same characters and locations can be just as easily stand alone as much, much, much, much, much longer stories. So, it is obvious your wanting to consider the longer length for the stories is not some way to magically create a standalone story. So what are you driving at?

Yes, I am now being purposly obtuse, I know and everyone else should know exactly what you are doing. While chaptered or non standalone stories are against the rules, you want to cut corners and, by simply slupping in some extra words, ignore the rules and write chaptered or non standalone stories. You want the moderators to ignore the rules because your story happens to be two pages long and accept your non standalone story.

Oh, you are being helpful to the moderators for this... telling them how easily they can see the story is two pages long. So easy that we know what will happen: they will not read the story and make the dicey decision that the story is non standalone, they will see it is two pages long and therefore exempt from the rules. Of course you ignore the fact that the easiest check on the story is the 750 word limit... the moderator doesn't even need to check on it because it is automatic.

Let's stop playing games and simply allow chaptered and non standalone stories for all entries or disallow them for all entries. Let's not give a few scrupulous? writers a way to bend the rules by writing overly long stories.

AT

You asked me what length had to do with it. My answer is: Nothing, as long as the story is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words. You other "questions" are just facetious, and not deserving of a response.

However, in 2009, I and some others wrote tales we considered to be standalone, because they had a beginning, a climatic moment, such as somebody cumming, and came to a conclusion. Unfortunately, the mods looked at some of these worksand noted they involved the same characters and/or were set in the same location as other stories, and ruled they were chapters of longer stories, and that the previous work had also been chapters of that same longer story. I included tales by myself about the hot blonde student and about Strider as examples, but there were other stories by other authors that were treated the same. I used other examples, such as two episodes of Batman and Robin battling The Joker in Gotham City or movies about Rocky. Most people would include each B & R episode or each Rocky movie as being a separate and standalone story but, if they had been posted in the Survivors' contest, they would have been disqualified as being chapters in an ongoing saga.

Most of us abhorred what was done in 2009 and earlier - people writing long stories and cutting them up into chapters, each one barely long enough to be accepted by Literotica, and each one counted as separate items in the contest. This is why the rule against chapters was installed, but most of us believed the moderators took it too far. Therefore, I proposed a modification of the rule, which I have described previously in great detail.

The length is not the important part. The main concern is that, even if the moderators rule an entry is a chapter, it would be acceptable is it has a beginning, a climax and an ending. The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed. The requirement that a story that would otherwise be disqualified as a chapter be of more than one Literotica page is not an onerous one. That would require a minimum of between 3,500 and 4,000 words, which is still less than the average length of stories in Lit.

 

[Kaishaku]

The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed.

There it is... the sum total of your argument. You want to disallow stories that fit your basic requirements for either a standalone story or for a chaptered story simply because they are not a certain length... a certain length much longer than the minimum requirements of stories for Survivor.

I don't understand your characterizing submitting a full and complete standalone story or chapter as sneaking. The submission of a 750 word, 900 word, 2,500 word story is a perfectly admissible thing... in full adherence to all the rules. When chapters were allowed, it was in full adherence to the rules to submit a full and complete standalone chaptered story even if there were only 750 words. Why are you calling it sneaking?

The only thing sneaky happening here is you trying to change the minimum word length for stories under the guise of a discussion on chapters. And at the beginning of your last post you summed it all up perfectly. When asked what does length have to do with it when talking about standalone or chaptered stories you reply: "My answer is: Nothing, as long as the story is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words."

There you have it, the solution to the issue. I recommend we proceed based upon Boxlicker101's comment concerning standalone and chaptered stories. That is: as long as the chaptered story or story using the same characters and settings is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words there is nothing wrong with it. Let's set that as the ruling for these type of stories and move on.

Thank you Boxlicker101 for stating the obvious solution so eloquently. I wish I said what you did... well as a matter of fact I think I did several days ago, but it is refreshing to see you finally agree with me.

AT

 

[Kaishaku]

You asked me what length had to do with it. My answer is: Nothing, as long as the story is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words. You other "questions" are just facetious, and not deserving of a response.

However, in 2009, I and some others wrote tales we considered to be standalone, because they had a beginning, a climatic moment, such as somebody cumming, and came to a conclusion. Unfortunately, the mods looked at some of these worksand noted they involved the same characters and/or were set in the same location as other stories, and ruled they were chapters of longer stories, and that the previous work had also been chapters of that same longer story. I included tales by myself about the hot blonde student and about Strider as examples, but there were other stories by other authors that were treated the same. I used other examples, such as two episodes of Batman and Robin battling The Joker in Gotham City or movies about Rocky. Most people would include each B & R episode or each Rocky movie as being a separate and standalone story but, if they had been posted in the Survivors' contest, they would have been disqualified as being chapters in an ongoing saga.

Most of us abhorred what was done in 2009 and earlier - people writing long stories and cutting them up into chapters, each one barely long enough to be accepted by Literotica, and each one counted as separate items in the contest. This is why the rule against chapters was installed, but most of us believed the moderators took it too far. Therefore, I proposed a modification of the rule, which I have described previously in great detail.

The length is not the important part. The main concern is that, even if the moderators rule an entry is a chapter, it would be acceptable is it has a beginning, a climax and an ending. The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed. The requirement that a story that would otherwise be disqualified as a chapter be of more than one Literotica page is not an onerous one. That would require a minimum of between 3,500 and 4,000 words, which is still less than the average length of stories in Lit.

This was the original post in it's entirety. It was a bit wordy so I highlighted what was interesting.

AT

 

[Boxlicker101]

This was the original post in it's entirety. It was a bit wordy so I highlighted what was interesting.

AT

This was not the original post. I have repeated myself several times and in great detail because some people, notably Algonquin Twit, professed to not understand what I was saying. A truly standalone story, unrelated to anything else posted by that author, would be accepted as long as it was at least 750 words long. A story adjudged to be a chapter would be accepted if it met certain criteria, including a length of more than one Literotica page. The reason for those standards, and from barring chapters in general, is to keep people from cutting long stories up into numerous 800 word chapters and submitting them as separate entities.

Here is an example of what I meant: http://www.literotica.com/s/emma-ch-01-1

It is short, probably less than 1,000 words, and there are eight more chapters of the same length.

 

[Boxlicker101]

This was the original post in it's entirety. It was a bit wordy so I highlighted what was interesting.

AT

This was not the original post. I have repeated myself several times and in great detail because some people, notably Algonquin Twit, professed to not understand what I was saying. A truly standalone story, unrelated to anything else posted by that author, would be accepted as long as it was at least 750 words long. A story adjudged to be a chapter would be accepted if it met certain criteria, including a length of more than one Literotica page. The reason for those standards, and from barring chapters in general, is to keep people from cutting long stories up into numerous 800 word chapters and submitting them as separate entities.

Here is an example of what I meant: http://www.literotica.com/s/emma-ch-01-1

It is short, probably less than 1,000 words, and there are eight more chapters of the same length.

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

This was not the original post. I have repeated myself several times and in great detail because some people, notably Algonquin Twit, professed to not understand what I was saying. A truly standalone story, unrelated to anything else posted by that author, would be accepted as long as it was at least 750 words long. A story adjudged to be a chapter would be accepted if it met certain criteria, including a length of more than one Literotica page. The reason for those standards, and from barring chapters in general, is to keep people from cutting long stories up into numerous 800 word chapters and submitting them as separate entities.

Here is an example of what I meant: http://www.literotica.com/s/emma-ch-01-1

It is short, probably less than 1,000 words, and there are eight more chapters of the same length.

Box, the fact that you pick my story when everyone else was doing chapter stories just goes to show that you will always be the asshole that you are.

Now do me a favor and go fuck yourself. You're such a piece of shit.

Why not pick a story from the contest winner that year, Princess Erin? She was the queen of 800 word chapter stories.

How about Bakeboss's stories from last year. They were all shitty little stories that were posting in any unrelated categories.

Just stop you fucking dope and leave me the fuck alone.

The fact that I even considered you a friend once, shows that I must have been out of my mind.

I wish to God, I never helped you to get published.

No wonder why your wife left you and your grandchildren have nothing to do with you. Now we all know.

Moron.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Box, the fact that you pick my story when everyone else was doing chapter stories just goes to show that you will always be the asshole that you are.

Now do me a favor and go fuck yourself. You're such a piece of shit.

Why not pick a story from the contest winner that year, Princess Erin? She was the queen of 800 word chapter stories.

How about Bakeboss's stories from last year. They were all shitty little stories that were posting in any unrelated categories.

Just stop you fucking dope and leave me the fuck alone.

The fact that I even considered you a friend once, shows that I must have been out of my mind.

I wish to God, I never helped you to get published.

No wonder why your wife left you and your grandchildren have nothing to do with you. Now we all know.

Moron.

I have never written short chapter stories. I do have some stories that are listed as chapters (Marian and Ryan) but each of those is a standalone story, and they are all 3,000 words or more. My series about Angel Jones could be considered chapters, but they are all about 10,000 words or more.

Other series, such as Cindy Lou and I Call on... are all standalone stories of varying length, but mostly more than one Lit. page. I have some novellas that are divided into chapters, but those segments are all 7,500 words or more. The first three parts of the Strider series could be considered chapters, but they are all at least 4,000 words long. The fourth and fifth parts are standalones.

I do have a three chapter story, "Jims Girl Friend" which consists of chapters between three and four thousand words.

Bakeboss does have some very short stories, but they are standalone stories, at least as many as I have read.

You might be right about the Princess.

 

[Noira]

Whew. Drama. Sorry I ever asked about the chapter requirements! I'm just going to cross my fingers and go to town, then, and well... while you guys are arguing, I'm getting all the points, mwhahaha.

>_>

That said, I just want to see a clarification that stories containing the same characters and locations will not be disqualified so long as they are stand-alone. I would be okay with chapter stories in the same category. I don't care about word count. I do NaNoWriMo. I can write 1500 words in 15 minutes.

The minimum word count for a Survivor contest story is 750? For some reason I'd been under the impression it was 1500. I don't know where I got that.

 

[Kaishaku]

This was not the original post.

I am talking about post #101, so yes it is.

 

[Kaishaku]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed.

There it is... the sum total of your argument. You want to disallow stories that fit your basic requirements for either a standalone story or for a chaptered story simply because they are not a certain length... a certain length much longer than the minimum requirements of stories for Survivor.

I don't understand your characterizing submitting a full and complete standalone story or chapter as sneaking. The submission of a 750 word, 900 word, 2,500 word story is a perfectly admissible thing... in full adherence to all the rules. When chapters were allowed, it was in full adherence to the rules to submit a full and complete standalone chaptered story even if there were only 750 words. Why are you calling it sneaking?

The only thing sneaky happening here is you trying to change the minimum word length for stories under the guise of a discussion on chapters. And at the beginning of your last post you summed it all up perfectly. When asked what does length have to do with it when talking about standalone or chaptered stories you reply: "My answer is: Nothing, as long as the story is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words."

There you have it, the solution to the issue. I recommend we proceed based upon Boxlicker101's comment concerning standalone and chaptered stories. That is: as long as the chaptered story or story using the same characters and settings is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words there is nothing wrong with it. Let's set that as the ruling for these type of stories and move on.

Thank you Boxlicker101 for stating the obvious solution so eloquently. I wish I said what you did... well as a matter of fact I think I did several days ago, but it is refreshing to see you finally agree with me.

AT

You have my vote.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed.

You have my vote.

This is a good example of somebody quoting another person out of context and making it appear that person said something much different from what he actually said. Here is the full post, with the cited part bolded:

You asked me what length had to do with it. My answer is: Nothing, as long as the story is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words. You other "questions" are just facetious, and not deserving of a response.

However, in 2009, I and some others wrote tales we considered to be standalone, because they had a beginning, a climatic moment, such as somebody cumming, and came to a conclusion. Unfortunately, the mods looked at some of these worksand noted they involved the same characters and/or were set in the same location as other stories, and ruled they were chapters of longer stories, and that the previous work had also been chapters of that same longer story. I included tales by myself about the hot blonde student and about Strider as examples, but there were other stories by other authors that were treated the same. I used other examples, such as two episodes of Batman and Robin battling The Joker in Gotham City or movies about Rocky. Most people would include each B & R episode or each Rocky movie as being a separate and standalone story but, if they had been posted in the Survivors' contest, they would have been disqualified as being chapters in an ongoing saga.

Most of us abhorred what was done in 2009 and earlier - people writing long stories and cutting them up into chapters, each one barely long enough to be accepted by Literotica, and each one counted as separate items in the contest. This is why the rule against chapters was installed, but most of us believed the moderators took it too far. Therefore, I proposed a modification of the rule, which I have described previously in great detail.

The length is not the important part. The main concern is that, even if the moderators rule an entry is a chapter, it would be acceptable if it has a beginning, a climax and an ending. The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed. The requirement that a story that would otherwise be disqualified as a chapter be of more than one Literotica page is not an onerous one. That would require a minimum of between 3,500 and 4,000 words, which is still less than the average length of stories in Lit.

 

[Kaishaku]

This is a good example of somebody quoting another person out of context and making it appear that person said something much different from what he actually said. Here is the full post, with the cited part bolded:

You asked me what length had to do with it. My answer is: Nothing, as long as the story is a standalone story and includes at least 750 words. You other "questions" are just facetious, and not deserving of a response.

However, in 2009, I and some others wrote tales we considered to be standalone, because they had a beginning, a climatic moment, such as somebody cumming, and came to a conclusion. Unfortunately, the mods looked at some of these worksand noted they involved the same characters and/or were set in the same location as other stories, and ruled they were chapters of longer stories, and that the previous work had also been chapters of that same longer story. I included tales by myself about the hot blonde student and about Strider as examples, but there were other stories by other authors that were treated the same. I used other examples, such as two episodes of Batman and Robin battling The Joker in Gotham City or movies about Rocky. Most people would include each B & R episode or each Rocky movie as being a separate and standalone story but, if they had been posted in the Survivors' contest, they would have been disqualified as being chapters in an ongoing saga.

Most of us abhorred what was done in 2009 and earlier - people writing long stories and cutting them up into chapters, each one barely long enough to be accepted by Literotica, and each one counted as separate items in the contest. This is why the rule against chapters was installed, but most of us believed the moderators took it too far. Therefore, I proposed a modification of the rule, which I have described previously in great detail.

The length is not the important part. The main concern is that, even if the moderators rule an entry is a chapter, it would be acceptable if it has a beginning, a climax and an ending. The length requirement is for the purpose of preventing people from sneaking in minimum length chapters that somehow meet the other requirements I proposed. The requirement that a story that would otherwise be disqualified as a chapter be of more than one Literotica page is not an onerous one. That would require a minimum of between 3,500 and 4,000 words, which is still less than the average length of stories in Lit.

Sorry Box there was no quoting out of context... that is why I followed my post with another showing the complete text of your quote (see posts #101, 102, 103) so I would not be accused of quoting you out of context.

And hey... if the Batman and Robin, or Rocky, or even hot blonde student stories had been artfully assembled in complete stories, each meeting all requirements you mention above except that they are 752 words long, or 1,547 words long or even 3.123 words long, how would you treat those? Don't answer Box, it is clear you would disqualify them simply because they don't have enough words.

On the other hand if we take your example, the Emma story, which you claim is apparantly not a complete standalone chapter, and simply add words that do not advance the story any further than it stands so that you get a story that broaches two pages, say 4.619 words. Even though adding all those words do not make the chapter stand alone you would happily accept this story. Not because it suddenly met your standards of what a standalone chaptered story is, but only because it met a "new" minimum length standard.

Clearly, setting all your game playing and false accusations aside, you have made this an issue of word count and nothing more. I contend that has been addressed and decided: The minimum word count for stories (standalone, chaptered, poorly crafted, award winning, or whatever - except the Novella & Novel category for longer works) is 750 words.

The submission of any story of 750 words (in any category except Novella & Novel) meets the requirements of the contest. The characterization of submitting a 750 word story as sneaking is nothing more than gamesmanship, you trying to cast some aura of cheating over a completely legitimate submittal. Even under the veil of fixing the chaptered story dilemma it is clear you are simply trying to find some way to extend the minimum story length.

If we are going to allow chaptered stories (and the Batman, Rocky and hot blonde student stories) then let's allow them. If not, then disallow them. But don't change the requirements for story length, that issue has already been decided.


K
AT et al

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

We aren't getting anywhere on this so...

The rule stands as is. No chapters. If you write a story with the same characters you need to be absolutely *sure* there is no relation to a previous story outside of using the same characters (and location should be okay too). If it reads like a continuation, it's going to be considered a chapter.

 

[Kaishaku]

I'm not sure why there is this hostility.
Another thing I want to mention is using past stories, whether published stories/movies such as Rocky, or using stories from this site, is not a good argument for or against this rule.

Can we have some decision made ASAP as it's a month into the contest and this can affect people's submissions.

No hostility, it just takes a level of tenacity to shed away the camoflage and get to the heart of the discussion. And no, we weren't really talking about using any of the actual Rocky or Batman or even the hot blonde student stories. They were listed as examples of the type of stories with same characters and/or settings used over several episodes.


K

 

[theravenfox]

We aren't getting anywhere on this so...

The rule stands as is. No chapters. If you write a story with the same characters you need to be absolutely *sure* there is no relation to a previous story outside of using the same characters (and location should be okay too). If it reads like a continuation, it's going to be considered a chapter.

I approve. Need a "like" button as on Facebook.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[Boxlicker101]

We aren't getting anywhere on this so...

The rule stands as is. No chapters. If you write a story with the same characters you need to be absolutely *sure* there is no relation to a previous story outside of using the same characters (and location should be okay too). If it reads like a continuation, it's going to be considered a chapter.

Okay. I'm not particularly happy over your definition of a "chapter" but I can live with it. I will still write the same kind of smut and post it and, if some is disqualified, so be it. My main purpose in being here is to write dirty stories for the benefit of wankers and friggers everywhere, and I will continue doing that.

Kaishaku, who says we aren't going to write anything about the hot blonde student? I intend to write at least one more story, and maybe more than that.

 

[LOAnnie2]

I think this last page has gotten into my twisted little beef with the Survivor rules when it comes to chapters.

Every year someone asks "Why can't we make the Survivor stories have a wordcount that's greater than 750 words?"

The answer given is that literotica accepts any story that's 750 words or more, therefore we have to.

By that same logic, literotica accepts chapter stories, yet survivor explicitly bans them.


Isn't it kinda backwards to say, "We have to accept these stories because lit accepts them," then to turn around and say, "but we won't accept these stories because lit accepts them"?

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think this last page has gotten into my twisted little beef with the Survivor rules when it comes to chapters.

Every year someone asks "Why can't we make the Survivor stories have a wordcount that's greater than 750 words?"

The answer given is that literotica accepts any story that's 750 words or more, therefore we have to.

By that same logic, literotica accepts chapter stories, yet survivor explicitly bans them.


Isn't it kinda backwards to say, "We have to accept these stories because lit accepts them," then to turn around and say, "but we won't accept these stories because lit accepts them"?

The reason for the rule against chapters in stories is that, a couple of years ago, some people started posting stories that were cut up into small chapters and counted each chapter as an entry on their scoresheet. This was so contrary to the spirit of the contest that the rule was put in place. It's too bad that some people saw fit to try to game the system like that.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

The reason for the rule against chapters in stories is that, a couple of years ago, some people started posting stories that were cut up into small chapters and counted each chapter as an entry on their scoresheet. This was so contrary to the spirit of the contest that the rule was put in place. It's too bad that some people saw fit to try to game the system like that.

Not to mention it would be a bitch of a task to enter every single Survivor story one by one into a word count checker. I certainly don't have that kind of time, and I doubt anyone else does either.

The whole point of the contest is new and original stories. IMHO chapters aren't new or original... and the way some chapters were being done, they weren't really even stories...

This is the way I look at it: if you (and this isn't aimed at anyone specifically) don't like the rules of the contest, don't participate.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Rules thread has been updated to show the change in the immunity rule from a 2:1 ratio to a 1:1 ratio.

This concludes the plotting and planning thread discussion. If you wish to discuss any issues about the contest, etc, you can go to the News, Views, & Discussion thread. If it's off-topic conversation, you can use the Off-Topic thread.