Ask a Dominant and/or Master...?

[Netzach]

I find all of this fascinating. All the customs and language and trappings of the stylized kinky world.

In some ways, I don't see much difference between a woman in one club with downcast eyes, and a woman brought to another club in basic slutwear. It's all part of the individual's presentation, the adopted persona - or rather, the unconventional inner persona, as expressed in a place where it's safe to do so.

I don't go to Rome and go "omg, these Romans suck."

 

[Homburg]

So have you ever been at one of these places of high protocol and just looked around at all the downcast eyes and gotten a bad case of the giggles?

The environment I mentioned in my anecdote above was not high protocol, but there is a small element of high protocol types there. When the munch group meets, they have (or had, no idea if it is still valid) colour-coded name tags depending on your ID (sub, top, master, switch, etc).

They have some basic protocol rules they want to see followed, but I don't know them. While I was invited to join (based solely off my performances at the club), I've never attended a munch with them. Aside from a basic dislike of formality, they're just too far away. It's hard enough to get away to go to my local munch group, much less one that is three hours round-trip to get to (and meets in the afternoon on a sunday, for fuck's sake).

I don't get the giggles, no. I thought it was a bit silly, sure, but, to be honest, the couple that I was dealing with was friendly and earnest. I got a good vibe off the top (not something that happens all that often) and his girl was very sweet.

At one point, she breathlessly asked me, after mustering up much courage, if I would tie "this girl" assuming her owner agreed. The "this girl" stuff, again, is usually annoying, but she pulled it off with sincerity and lack of affectation to the point where I just found her cute as an button. She was like a bright and bouncey puppy, and I wanted to pet her on the head and scratch behind her ears.

So sincerity, even when couched in protocol, can win the day. They were both sincere, and the protocol did not come off as some sort of device. It's not for me, but nothing that made me want to giggle.

 

[ownedsubgal]

*paging osg*

you rang?? lol

seriously, i don't treat or regard every man as if they are my Master. that would be rather ludicrous and nonsensical. however i am to treat all men with a modicum of respect and deference. that is because i do not view myself as equal in status to a man and because i acknowledge and respect the differences between man and woman.

every man, official Dominant or not, older than myself is "Sir," and never have i come across anyone who took offense to this. no eye contact with men unless told to do so, no speaking unless spoken to, that is everyday public protocol for me, yes. not because my Master "gets off" on it, but because it is what he feels is appropriate for a submissive female. other rules are no cursing/swearing, no eating or drinking before others at the table have begun to do so, etc. we certainly do not consider ourselves to be kinksters or part of the "bdsm" community. Daddy personally could not care less what protocols others have in place and why. for us it is not about "the lifestyle," it is about life. in life, as a submissive female we feel i should present myself in a certain way. it's really about good manners, being ladylike. and as someone who is someone else's property, obviously the way in which i present myself reflects directly on my Master, so that gives proper decorum extra importance.

 

[midwestyankee]

I find it hard to keep a straight face in most circumstances. I'd fail miserably as that kind of "s".

I should amend my statement to say that I would never actually allow myself to giggle in the presence of a lot of high protocol. I am always polite and genial with people even if we clearly have very little in common. I think that Homburg's experience and JMohegan's expression are more like what I figure my reaction would be in a club situation. I very easily slip into the observer mode and no doubt would find an evening or two of the club scene quite fascinating. Beyond that, assuming that my curiosity was mostly satisfied, I doubt if I would go back. I'm not at all interested in playing in public in any way, so at some point I would start feeling like more of a taker and not enough of a giver to be a part of the scene.

 

[intothewoods]

I want a goofy title! Please, Princess Peach?

In all seriousness, my Owners and I both refer to Mistress as "Mattress" most of the time. Once while we were all lying in bed together, she was trying to say "Master and Mistress," and it all ran together and came out something like "Mattress."

Because none of us can take anything seriously for more than 2.5 seconds, she's "Mattress" more often than she's "Mistress" nowadays. She even refers to herself that way.

That's just adorable.

Ahhh, yes, my antipodal persuasion plays hell with my sense of direction at times.


OK, I have a question for the "D" types...

So have you ever been at one of these places of high protocol and just looked around at all the downcast eyes and gotten a bad case of the giggles? When I read JM's post about that, I immediately thought of my dad, who is always telling me to keep one eye on the ground for spare change.

(He finds quite a bit of money that way).

Not a D type, but before the first kinky happy hour (also my first rl kinky anything) I attended, my girlfriend (also attending that happy hour for the first time) warned me I might have to call PYLs Sir. I started giggling and kind of panicked and said, I can't do it! Mostly it was just too much for me to be attending a kink event for the first time and have to worry about protocol. Anyway, luckily there was no expected protocol.

The only time I've ever been in that environment is with men paying heavily for the fantasy. It's a lot of work to police that, and frankly I want to pay attention to MY bottom, not yours and his.

OK, not entirely true. I've been in some pretty serious Leather environments. They were a bit too rigid for me ultimately.

Everyone with a better reputation than mine was Sir or Ma'am. I don't resent that unless I find out that those people are a mess or a flake of some kind. There's some lack of shine on the boots of the community often.

Most heavy protocol I've been around is basically the bottom sticking close to and accessible to the top and not being talkative much. You address the Top organically in conversation this way, you don't accidentally strike up interaction with the wrong party.

Then again, in these instances, junior tops also kept their mouths more closed than open, too.

The bolded part is what I've experienced as well. Very subtle protocol.

 

[Netzach]

I also don't find it giggle-inducing because I'm part of the same historical continuum as a lot of the people into protocol, at least the protocol that come to mind for me when I hear the word, which is not some Story of O outtake.

Black bar vest with backpatch may not resonate with me as a relic, but I understand what it is for these people and I respect it. I get to be my freaky silly whatever works pansexual good time girl *because* of these people and their groundwork and their heavy casualties to AIDS and their shrunken numbers and the changing world.

But protocol in this world is much larger than individuals, it *is* group identity. Everyone and their dog knows what flagging is now, but at one point it was a way to convey things that no one but the most marginalized dared to even talk about.

It feels good when a person I meet from across the country puts a pin on my vest and it's upside-down and she gives me a wink.

(It's a sign of comeraderie to be sealed with, traditionally a blowjob, more generally a scene of some kind. The pin gets righted after the play)

I don't especially love all this secret handshake where's my motorcycle stuff for its own sake, but I am grateful that the flame, or some version of it, has its keepers.

 

[WearMeWell]

*curtsey, ...*soft smile~. Wow.
*Smile broadens~, Thank you all for your responses; very much appreciated.

*My apologies for the tardy reply. I work,...when i work,...in the medical field;- on call. So, i was "otherwise occupied" just after posting the thread.
--and now y'all get me on lack of sleep and the last vestiges of a caffein and sugar rush from hell. -*LOL

* eyes locking on yours...consider yourselves warned...*smirk~

What's up with the curtseying? Is that part of kinky protocol in your neck of the woods?

*in a word, - etiquette. (more “etiquette“ than “kinky protocol“--(though that last one sounds kinda fun to play with…*Smile~)

*noble bow* *pleasant smile~…*curtsey~


Hiya! *Hello~

(Ah.... contrasts )

I'm sure you'll be able to find some advice and answers to your questions. Um.... but I noticed you described some, but never really asked any.

So (not being as all wise and knowing as some others) any Dom or Masters want to step up to the batters box and swing at any curve ball WearMeWell throws at us?

*noblest of bows au reviior*
*Curtsey, *soft smile~…Thank you~.

Oh God WMW. You're gonna give the boys fat heads.

*frustratingly irrepressible, Instant IQ dropping giggle~(slightly ornery edge to it)
*collects self, *clears throat softly…you say that like it’s a bad thing…*giggle~ *wink*

Tsk tsk yourself, KC. I asked if it was her standard protocol for just this reason.

*Smile~…“Standard protocol-yes, and no;” *smile broadens softly~ just before I continue*…“that and,… -propriety. ”
*smiles~…”of course,” *shakes a cold canister of Redi-whip…”sometimes..*looks at the can, then back to you* “that slips alittle.”…*looks at the can,…then back at you ,” Had some of this stuff lately?” *something mischievous glimmering in the smile~

Hm, yes. The poor woman is going to think she's struck a vein of knowledge when she sees how many responses there are, only to open the thread and find all of our meaningless garble clogging it.

I'd best return to my book.

*LOL!…*smile~, I’m rather enjoying it.(you guys are great!…)

*tosses Keroin a can of Redi-whip...*smile~

*Thank you, all of you. *Curtsey~, *Smile~
**random question alert** ...If it were within your power, what’s the biggest reform you'd make within the Lifestyle?

What are your thoughts on an type of "internship" for Doms/Dommes, Subs, slaves, Masters/Mistresses, etc?

What’s the best thing your sub/slave/etc could do for you if you were in a pool together?
*blinks*…ok, maybe we’ll skip that last one…
...for now. *lol

How do you, on the rare occasion, effect discipline in public?(say a sub gets a bit too “out there” during a party, or attempts to top from the bottom, etc.)

There are more burning questions I would like to ask, but, they may be considered “too personal,” -- ones that have to do with specific motivations and reactions.

I still want those answers,--in fact, they are my main motivation for starting this thread-- but effecting such while remaining within the bounds of propriety would be…sticky, -ish.

--which reminds me that I probably shouldn’t initiate another sugar rush…*lol
Well, not a huge one…*smirk in the smile~
*sets out a 3 more cans of Redi-whip, …here. Y’all take these before someone gets “rushed“…(or creamed…whichever comes first)

 

[Homburg]

**random question alert** ...If it were within your power, what’s the biggest reform you'd make within the Lifestyle?

I wouldn't. I'm not interested in that sort of power. There are lovely pie-in-the-sky things such as getting rid of the predators, but, again, that's pie-in-the-sky. I like the fact that the 'lifestyle' is decentralised and leaderless, and possesses no power itself.

What are your thoughts on an type of "internship" for Doms/Dommes, Subs, slaves, Masters/Mistresses, etc?

The concept exists within the Leather community and has functioned that way for decades. It works for them *shrug*, but it's not my thing.

What’s the best thing your sub/slave/etc could do for you if you were in a pool together?
*blinks*…ok, maybe we’ll skip that last one…
...for now. *lol

Given that most pools are public, or at least in public view, I'd say have fun, splash, swim, etc. Private pool out of view? Hmm, depends on how edgy I want to get, and what sort of support I have.

How do you, on the rare occasion, effect discipline in public?(say a sub gets a bit too “out there” during a party, or attempts to top from the bottom, etc.)

A disapproving look is generally enough. If need be, a quiet, short reprimand will usually suffice. Anything beyond that would necessitate leaving the public eye, and perhaps a solid look at the relationship itself.

 

[MisterSir]

Eesh. Ever think of maybe cutting down on the action tags a tad?

If it were within your power, what’s the biggest reform you'd make within the Lifestyle?

Take the apparent age bias around the back of the proverbial barn with a twelve-gauge.[/obvious answer] It's to be expected, coming from me, but you have to admit it's fair.

What are your thoughts on an type of "internship" for Doms/Dommes, Subs, slaves, Masters/Mistresses, etc?

...what, like a period of time prospective Doms have to spend being mentored before they qualify as a "true Dom"? I really don't understand your thought process on this one, or even what you think the internship should be.

 

[Netzach]

I think the whole formal internship is useful if you're an otherwise vanilla woman joining a house of Domination as a pro or something. Less so otherwise. You'll be intuitively involved and smart if you *are* Dominant or a sexual Top and you won't be a passive learner.

I do think if you want to do advanced things, you should learn how. Best way - have someone do them to you and explain every step. Second best, watch someone doing them to someone else and be able to ask questions, stop them, join in. TALK TO THE BOTTOM if you do. Third best, watch people do it in their scenes. Reading is good, medical articles and whatnot.

I definitely considered myself a novice at certain points, though, and conducted myself like a wide-eyed novice. I'm what I consider Journeyman now, if you were to label it - comfortable with some things, uncomfortable with others, and happy being a medium-medium hard player.

I tried everything I could think of. I learned that I like doing needles and sounds, who knew, and that other CBT often sorta bores me though I thought it would not.

I tried everything had offered to me. Including lots of bottoming. (I maintain this is the fastest least obstacle laden route to intuitive and smart topping. On the occasions that people have commented on my picking up anything quickly I attribute that to bottoming to learn.)

However I bottomed on my terms and in my own fashion. Whenever confronted with this notion that before I could dare top I must complete X months of days or whatever as someone's slave or something - I laughed. I liked the person who mentored me OK, when I felt strongly that I must be formally mentored, but he was the wrong match. Our philosophies were so different, our interests so different.

It's experience, and garnering lots of it. It's not sociology 101 201 and 301 followed by a thesis. Everything I've said pertains to playing with bodies, but I mostly play with brains. I don't think anyone can teach another person the hows of that. Some people will never grasp it and should not be doing it, frankly, and they can be super physical players. Some people don't care for it, and that's fine.

What you *can* teach another person about playing with brains, are the questions, ethical issues, and points to ponder involved. Take notes. Keep a diary. Think about yourself and what you know about yourself.

 

[JMohegan]

you rang?? lol

seriously, i don't treat or regard every man as if they are my Master. that would be rather ludicrous and nonsensical. however i am to treat all men with a modicum of respect and deference. that is because i do not view myself as equal in status to a man and because i acknowledge and respect the differences between man and woman.

every man, official Dominant or not, older than myself is "Sir," and never have i come across anyone who took offense to this. no eye contact with men unless told to do so, no speaking unless spoken to, that is everyday public protocol for me, yes. not because my Master "gets off" on it, but because it is what he feels is appropriate for a submissive female. other rules are no cursing/swearing, no eating or drinking before others at the table have begun to do so, etc. we certainly do not consider ourselves to be kinksters or part of the "bdsm" community. Daddy personally could not care less what protocols others have in place and why. for us it is not about "the lifestyle," it is about life. in life, as a submissive female we feel i should present myself in a certain way. it's really about good manners, being ladylike. and as someone who is someone else's property, obviously the way in which i present myself reflects directly on my Master, so that gives proper decorum extra importance.

Thank you.

 

[Keroin]

I find all of this fascinating. All the customs and language and trappings of the stylized kinky world.

In some ways, I don't see much difference between a woman in one club with downcast eyes, and a woman brought to another club in basic slutwear. It's all part of the individual's presentation, the adopted persona - or rather, the unconventional inner persona, as expressed in a place where it's safe to do so.

Makes sense. Kind of a Jane Goodall attitude. I get it. I think I have more comments but I'll save them for later.

I should amend my statement to say that I would never actually allow myself to giggle in the presence of a lot of high protocol. I am always polite and genial with people even if we clearly have very little in common. I think that Homburg's experience and JMohegan's expression are more like what I figure my reaction would be in a club situation. I very easily slip into the observer mode and no doubt would find an evening or two of the club scene quite fascinating. Beyond that, assuming that my curiosity was mostly satisfied, I doubt if I would go back. I'm not at all interested in playing in public in any way, so at some point I would start feeling like more of a taker and not enough of a giver to be a part of the scene.

Having never been to any public events or clubs, I have no idea how I'd react. I'd be polite, I'm sure, but I do tend to find humour most everywhere I go - whether I'm looking for it or not.

 

[midwestyankee]

Makes sense. Kind of a Jane Goodall attitude. I get it. I think I have more comments but I'll save them for later.



Having never been to any public events or clubs, I have no idea how I'd react. I'd be polite, I'm sure, but I do tend to find humour most everywhere I go - whether I'm looking for it or not.

So do I - but in more recent years I've developed the ability to hold my laughter for later in privacy.

 

[nh23]

you rang?? lol

seriously, i don't treat or regard every man as if they are my Master. that would be rather ludicrous and nonsensical. however i am to treat all men with a modicum of respect and deference. that is because i do not view myself as equal in status to a man and because i acknowledge and respect the differences between man and woman.

every man, official Dominant or not, older than myself is "Sir," and never have i come across anyone who took offense to this. no eye contact with men unless told to do so, no speaking unless spoken to, that is everyday public protocol for me, yes. not because my Master "gets off" on it, but because it is what he feels is appropriate for a submissive female. other rules are no cursing/swearing, no eating or drinking before others at the table have begun to do so, etc. we certainly do not consider ourselves to be kinksters or part of the "bdsm" community. Daddy personally could not care less what protocols others have in place and why. for us it is not about "the lifestyle," it is about life. in life, as a submissive female we feel i should present myself in a certain way. it's really about good manners, being ladylike. and as someone who is someone else's property, obviously the way in which i present myself reflects directly on my Master, so that gives proper decorum extra importance.

Thank you.

I'm a realist. I don't find all men deserving of that kind of respect. I'm all about good manners and being ladylike though. I just don't find that calling everyone with a dick Sir and never looking anyone in the eye to be such.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Thank you.

you're more than welcome. i just wonder, is the concept of good manners, proper courtesy, being ladylike, etc...so uncommon among "lifestylers?" does it have to be limited to the confines of some club or group (making it very odd and phoney-ish imo)?

 

[ownedsubgal]

I'm a realist. I don't find all men deserving of that kind of respect. I'm all about good manners and being ladylike though. I just don't find that calling everyone with a dick Sir and never looking anyone in the eye to be such.

well, not everyone with a penis gets to be called "Sir," they have to have been born pre-1980. no but i hear you, we (Daddy and i) are just more than a little bit "old school" i suppose, and we believe that there are significant and complex differences between male and female, and find beauty and comfort in those differences. i am pretty much the anti-feminist, lol.

 

[MisterSir]

well, not everyone with a penis gets to be called "Sir," they have to have been born pre-1980.

...

 

[nh23]

well, not everyone with a penis gets to be called "Sir," they have to have been born pre-1980. no but i hear you, we (Daddy and i) are just more than a little bit "old school" i suppose, and we believe that there are significant and complex differences between male and female, and find beauty and comfort in those differences. i am pretty much the anti-feminist, lol.

I can understand that.

 

[Homburg]

...

Don't worry, buckaroo. When you get older and earn your bitterness with the coin of years, you'll be able to give back all that supposed age-centric discrimination you're feeling now.

Or you could just look for the local equivalent of Whippersnappers, TNG (The Next Generation) or whatever they call under 35 groups in your neck of the woods.

 

[Keroin]

So do I - but in more recent years I've developed the ability to hold my laughter for later in privacy.

Ordinarily I wouldn't commit such a heinous hijacking but since it's my day and all...

When I was eighteen I decided it was high time to attend an opera, so I talked my bf into it and we bought tickets to "The Cunning Little Vixen". I knew zero about opera at that time but since the production was in English I figured I'd have a better time understanding the words.

Yes. I know, ha ha.

Anyway, near the very end, the lead is lamenting the death of the vixen as his wife is commenting on a friend of hers who has received a gift of fur - no coincidence, let me assure you. The audience was hushed, the mood somber. Well, the wife belts out, "SHE GOT A NEW MUFF!" at which point I lean in and whisper to my boyfriend, "What happened to her old one?"

I lost it. I had to leave. Tears, choking, laughing my way out to the lobby. Very, very bad K.

Yes, I am also much more restrained now. (Most of the time).

Hijack over.

For now

 

[MisterSir]

Don't worry, buckaroo. When you get older and earn your bitterness with the coin of years, you'll be able to give back all that supposed age-centric discrimination you're feeling now.

But I'm bitter now! Not actually a bad suggestion, though. I'm relatively sure there's an U35 munch, although where and when I don't have the faintest.

 

[Netzach]

you're more than welcome. i just wonder, is the concept of good manners, proper courtesy, being ladylike, etc...so uncommon among "lifestylers?" does it have to be limited to the confines of some club or group (making it very odd and phoney-ish imo)?

T uses Sir and Ma'am among people older than he is, or people he doesn't know in general.

It has nothing to do with his desire to throw himself at their feet and show his belly, and everything to do with his security in his own power and his sense that this is just how it's done right.

What I find laughable is when the Dominants have no manners, self control, or social graces and are trying to impart said on their property. I don't care how they treat *their* SO's, but if they're modeling dickitude as right and proper that's just as fake to me as keeping it in the club.

I don't demand white glove ladylike from H because it's not my world. I absolutely wouldn't expect him to act like a cock-knob to anyone ever though and would not tolerate it.

 

[WearMeWell]

*The "within Your power to change anything,...thing*

I wouldn't. I'm not interested in that sort of power. There are lovely pie-in-the-sky things such as getting rid of the predators, but, again, that's pie-in-the-sky. I like the fact that the 'lifestyle' is decentralised and leaderless, and possesses no power itself.

*The "internship" thing:*

The concept exists within the Leather community and has functioned that way for decades. It works for them *shrug*, but it's not my thing.


*The "in the pool" thing*

Given that most pools are public, or at least in public view, I'd say have fun, splash, swim, etc. Private pool out of view? Hmm, depends on how edgy I want to get, and what sort of support I have.

*The "discipline in public" thing*

A disapproving look is generally enough. If need be, a quiet, short reprimand will usually suffice. Anything beyond that would necessitate leaving the public eye, and perhaps a solid look at the relationship itself.

*Deep Curtsey...*Thank You, Sir, for replying; much appreciated. *Smile~

I enjoyed your answers/viewpoint. I'm even tempted to say "private pool,-plenty of time, support and resources..." *LOL
(but, perhaps thats the triple shot espresso talking...lol)

Thank you again, *curtsey~

WMW~

 

[Homburg]

But I'm bitter now! Not actually a bad suggestion, though. I'm relatively sure there's an U35 munch, although where and when I don't have the faintest.

See, there's a different flavour to the bitterness when you're old enough to be bitter for a good reason. You? You're just recreationally bitter. Give it time, and it will season into something deeper. Something with teeth.

--

T uses Sir and Ma'am among people older than he is, or people he doesn't know in general.

I do the same thing, and it can cause interesting reactions at munches. I don't call it manners though, just growing up in a southern military family.

--

*Deep Curtsey...*Thank You, Sir, for replying; much appreciated. *Smile~

I enjoyed your answers/viewpoint. I'm even tempted to say "private pool,-plenty of time, support and resources..." *LOL
(but, perhaps thats the triple shot espresso talking...lol)

Thank you again, *curtsey~

WMW~

You are quite welcome.

 

[JMohegan]

you're more than welcome. i just wonder, is the concept of good manners, proper courtesy, being ladylike, etc...so uncommon among "lifestylers?" does it have to be limited to the confines of some club or group (making it very odd and phoney-ish imo)?

I'd say that most kinky people think of good manners and courtesy as general, societal constructs. Whatever a particular regional and socioeconomic group expects in the way of polite behavior = "good manners," as I would define that term.

You mentioned that you "treat all men with a modicum of respect and deference" because you do not view yourself as "equal in status to a man." But responding to men and women as equal in status *is* "proper courtesy," in my world. That's one big reason why the deferential behavior of some kinksters, in private clubs, is limited to private environments.

Another reason is the fact that some don't actually view non-dominant males as worthy of deference. You see the division as male/female, but they see it as Dominant/not.