Ask a Dominant and/or Master...?

[ownedsubgal]

re: subspace,

after 9 years in slavery, i still have no clear idea whatsoever on what constitutes "subspace." i do know that like Catalina's Master, it's not a state my Master finds desirable or attractive in any way.

 

[MisterSir]

I have one in mind, as a matter of fact, it belongs to the family that lives a few doors down. The little bastard yips through the night and, every time I walk past, goes crazy so, one of these days, I'm going to ring the bell, let the dog zoom out once the front door's been opened and punt it into the horizon. Little buggers hate me (for good reason), I'm going to hate them right back.

You really do have a way with words. You practically exude cranky humour.

I could probably do stand-up based on nothing more than my life and the ways I've failed, I do have a lifetime of material.

 

[Homburg]

re: subspace,

after 9 years in slavery, i still have no clear idea whatsoever on what constitutes "subspace." i do know that like Catalina's Master, it's not a state my Master finds desirable or attractive in any way.

Some people do not have the psychological and adrenal make-up to hit subspace. It is as much psychological as biochemical.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Some people do not have the psychological and adrenal make-up to hit subspace. It is as much psychological as biochemical.

I have known people who have learned to control it to the point of not going there because that was the desired outcome of the PYL. To be able to consciously control whether you go there or not suggests psychological basis to me.

Catalina

 

[nh23]

I have known people who have learned to control it to the point of not going there because that was the desired outcome of the PYL. To be able to consciously control whether you go there or not suggests psychological basis to me.

Catalina

I disagree. I think it's mostly a chemical reaction. Closely related to shock.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I disagree. I think it's mostly a chemical reaction. Closely related to shock.

Then how is it I, and others who have been in the habit of going into subspace without much effort at all, have brought it to a place where they no longer go there through conscious effort? You can't control chemical reactions without medication usually.

Catalina

 

[nh23]

Then how is it I, and others who have been in the habit of going into subspace without much effort at all, have brought it to a place where they no longer go there through conscious effort? You can't control chemical reactions without medication usually.

Catalina

Mind over matter. It is possible to control your body reactions. People do it all the time.

 

[nh23]

Physiological Processes

During the scene, the intense experiences of both pain and pleasure trigger a sympathetic nervous system response, which causes a release of epinephrine from the suprarenal glands, as well as a dump of endorphins and enkephalins. These natural chemicals, part of the fight or flight response produce the same effect as a morphine-like drug, increasing the pain tolerance of the submissive as the scene becomes more intense. Producing a sort of trance-like state due to the increase of hormones and chemicals, the submissive starts to feel out-of-body, detached from reality, and as the high comes down, and the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in, a deep exhaustion, as well as incoherence. Many submissives once reaching a height of subspace will lose all sensation of pain, as any stimulus causes the period to prolong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_(BDSM)

 

[BiBunny]

I believe it's a little of both. I've always been one to go into pretty heavy shock if I injure myself seriously (which, being a clumsy person, I do a lot of). I can't control my endorphin rushes, either. That includes S&M play and other "highs," like during exercise or whatever.

I think if you don't have very powerful reactions one way or the other, it probably doesn't make it hard to ward off said reaction.

 

[catalina_francisco]

One person I know of who has managed to stop going into subspace was someone who had very strong and powerful reactions before this learned abstinence. I have seen them when it was permitted and believe me, they were out of it quickly and deeply, no half way measures etc., but now, they control it completely. I also believe I could go there without too much trouble, but as it is not permitted, I don;t...mind you, I can go into fits of hysterical laughter with heavy pain play though if I'm not careful.

Catalina

 

[Homburg]

I have one in mind, as a matter of fact, it belongs to the family that lives a few doors down. The little bastard yips through the night and, every time I walk past, goes crazy so, one of these days, I'm going to ring the bell, let the dog zoom out once the front door's been opened and punt it into the horizon. Little buggers hate me (for good reason), I'm going to hate them right back.

I have one similar to that two doors down from me. But he is on a deck ten feet off the ground, so I can't get to him to apply the boot.

I could probably do stand-up based on nothing more than my life and the ways I've failed, I do have a lifetime of material.

See, that is taking lemons and making lemonade! We'll make a cheerful pessimist out of you yet.

--

I have known people who have learned to control it to the point of not going there because that was the desired outcome of the PYL. To be able to consciously control whether you go there or not suggests psychological basis to me.

Catalina

As others have said, it has a basis in both. Some people do not have a predilection for it at all, some have a moderate response. You are probably more psychological than physical. MIS used to be strongly physical before her heart issue was resolved. Heart rate would go awry (though we didn't know it at the time) and *poof* she was gone. Now it is a mixture of both, thus why I say that a command is sufficient. Command-based subspace is not as deep as the ones where it is due to extreme physical stimulation though.

 

[nh23]

As others have said, it has a basis in both. Some people do not have a predilection for it at all, some have a moderate response. You are probably more psychological than physical. MIS used to be strongly physical before her heart issue was resolved. Heart rate would go awry (though we didn't know it at the time) and *poof* she was gone. Now it is a mixture of both, thus why I say that a command is sufficient. Command-based subspace is not as deep as the ones where it is due to extreme physical stimulation though.

I'd say command based is more psyc based. Like hypnosis. Pain play is more chemical. Endorphin high.

 

[the captians wench]

re: subspace,

after 9 years in slavery, i still have no clear idea whatsoever on what constitutes "subspace." i do know that like Catalina's Master, it's not a state my Master finds desirable or attractive in any way.

For me, this is a place where I stop serving. Subspace is a place where i no longer care whether or not he's enjoying himself and only care about the happy place I'm in. I even stop hearing his commands. Yeah, he doesn't like this much. I learned to control it to a bit, but I didn't have enough time to really be able to learn to control it much, but I could enough to the point where I could still hear him anyway.

One person I know of who has managed to stop going into subspace was someone who had very strong and powerful reactions before this learned abstinence. I have seen them when it was permitted and believe me, they were out of it quickly and deeply, no half way measures etc., but now, they control it completely. I also believe I could go there without too much trouble, but as it is not permitted, I don;t...mind you, I can go into fits of hysterical laughter with heavy pain play though if I'm not careful.

Catalina

giggle fits are my stage 2. It's why one friend of mine gave me the name "giggles" well one of the reasons anyway.

I'm uncomfortable. I giggle. I sob. I go numb with giggles evident.

 

[DiscusDave]

Darn that thing called work!! Here I was all excited for the questions this morning and last night, and there I go missing them all.

*Tips hat to WMW*

If it were within your power, what’s the biggest reform you'd make within the Lifestyle?

As a youngin' myself I would start to agree with MisterSir on his merciless killing of the age president. However, I will admit I have not been to any public "forum" of sorts for any play. No clubs, munches (most of the ones in my area are "sloshes"... and till August can't attend those), or any parties. Keeping this in mind, I haven't had much of the blunt end of this age problem. My main thing with it is, that since it is known to exist.... it's always in the back of my mind, and has become this subconscious thing I have to overcome. Even though I've never really experienced it. So just to quell my own anxieties, I'd change it.

What are your thoughts on an type of "internship" for Doms/Dommes, Subs, slaves, Masters/Mistresses, etc?

A formal based one, I don't see working too well, unless it is in the "professional" setting that Netzach talked about. I think this is due to a different fact though. If a Dom/me were to take an intern or apprentice, there could be some difficulties in the play being done. I look at the example of a Dom and his sub. He takes on an intern, who would then be learning on the sub of his mentor? I'd just get to plain territorial for that.

But I will say that there are a bit less long term type things already set up. Conventions hold talks and classes. There are some places in major cities where rope work courses can be attended. Hell, if you meet a person as knowledgeable and likable as Homburg (despite his mean streaks), and are lucky enough to befriend him/her... they might very well teach you something. Either on purpose or just by being around them. So in the learning sense, there are things already out there.

What’s the best thing your sub/slave/etc could do for you if you were in a pool together?

Private pool... just about anything I'd do out of the pool with the sub, but with a lot more caution due to the higher risk of oxygen deprivation... aka drowning.

In a public pool, depending on how well she has handled nudity in the past, make her remove the lower half of her swimsuit. Of course the water level would be above her waist and she would stay close to me, but that would be a very fun thing. The only problem would be those pesky kids who swim around with goggles in a local public pool.

do you, on the rare occasion, effect discipline in public?(say a sub gets a bit too “out there” during a party, or attempts to top from the bottom, etc.)

I think a whispered word into the ear would suffice. If the behavior persists, we would completely stop whatever it was we were doing, and go somewhere private, if not completely home.


Sorry it's after a whole new set of questions are out. But I did very much want to answer.

*winks a "farewell for now" to WMW*

 

[nh23]

I've never encountered the age thing. While I'm older than I look. I'm still a youngin I guess. No one has ever said anything to me that made me feel my opinions were invalid because of my age. However I do have a lot of r/l experience for my age.

I knew I wanted this early and have been doing it for quite awhile.

 

[WearMeWell]

Many times, although I don't usually call it subspace. I call it an endorphin high.


For me I feel floaty and peaceful. I also stop feeling pain of any type.
*cool

Well basically it's a form of shock. I think it's wise that tops know basic medical facts. For me personally sometimes I have a hard time coming out of it. I love the feeling and don't want to come back to earth.

*Hmm,...wll, from the descriptions, that is what it sounded like. I was hoping it wasn't...
*Sigh~
Shock is not something to mess around with...*frustrations flits over my features,..brow furrows, mouth quirks~

For me yes. But I know others have said they can get there quite easily. It depends on your body.

* now you sound like a fitness trainer...p *LOL

For me yes. I have a really high pain tolerance so he has to beat me black and blue anymore to get me there.

*....uh, not so cool,- ms perfectly precious princess peachy

*Smile~...*Curtsey~

 

[WearMeWell]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WearMeWell
*Round two* -- **Random topic alert**i do realize most of these will be "personal preference" situations, and am looking forward to reading the range of answers...

*these will be about that condition referred to as "subspace:"

How many of you have achieved that condition/phenominae referred to as "subspace?"

Not me, but I've had many a partner find her way there.


Quote:
What constitutes a relatively "normal," "subspace"?

Um, no clue. They go all spacey, and aren't quite there. Some will respond to stimuli, but it's like it's coming through a wall of fog for them.


Quote:
What are the dangers?

MIS once went into subspace when she was alone. That was a bit scary.


Quote:
Does "subspace" always take a pain level overload, for the sub, to achieve?

Nope. Pleasure overload can do it, and some can reach it by command.

*eyebrow cock...THIS,- I would like an elaboration on please...
*curtsey~


Quote:
Does that ability to achieve that condition become more difficult as the subs pain tolerance increases?

Not that I've seen.

--


Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterSir
Message received, fossil-man, but I passed recreationally bitter when I was seven and the love letter I'd spent hours working on using all of my childish charm (and most of my crayons, if I remember right) was spurned rather rudely by a little redheaded girl whose mother taught me to play chess. She grew up magnificently; I grew up to look like the guy the Elephant Man liked clubbing with because he looked better in comparison. Not long ago, I had to sit and listen to a Christian friend of mine wank on about how God gave her a wonderful new boyfriend - casually skipping over the part of the story in which said wonderful new boyfriend was originally the wonderful new boyfriend of her roommate - for an hour before asking "If you've got a second, can you ask God when he's going to get off his fucking laurels and fix me up with someone?" to which the reply was "He's only God, he can't do miracles." I think, in summary: Carlsberg don't do bitter, but if they did, even they'd have fired me for being just a little too hateful.

You really do have a way with words. You practically exude cranky humour.

*giggle slips out~

Quote:
Recreationally bitter?

I aaaalmost felt bad about coining that phrase, but I am admittedly a mean bastard


Quote:
From the man who seems to live such a charmed life I half expect him to be hired because he has to teach the new Wonder Woman how to use a rope and Megan Fox wants to experience what being tied up is like? I'm going to find a puppy and kick it, just for you! Also, when I use white font, occasionally people overlook it. Let's see how many take me seriously. I love this place and everybody here, except those with dicks or eyeballs in their avatars.

Megan Fox might enjoy it, but, honestly, she really doesn't do it for me. I've tied women that I find far, far hotter than Megan Fox.

I make up for what appears to be a charmed existence by having a demanding home life, far too little time, crappy income, and no social life beyond those what live with me. Admittedly, I don't mind the latter, as I really dig the people I live with.

And I would SO teach Wonder Woman ropework. Lynda Carter was stupendously hot in that role. She IS Wonder Woman to me.
*not that it is 'needed,'...but I concur~

Make sure the puppy you kick is of the annoying little yappy sort. They don't weigh much, thus they'll just fly a bit and not actually get hurt. Plus it's good OTJ training for them later in life.
__________________

*LOL!...*too funny~

*Curtsey~...

 

[WearMeWell]

I support kicking the yappy dogs



(also, ultrasonic trainers work pretty dang good on them too. had this one that would chase me up & down the street nipping until I got one. Now it sees me & runs!)

*im laughing...i love animals, -especially puppies...but im still laughing.--i, i cant help it!~...**giggle fit

 

[Homburg]

I'd say command based is more psyc based. Like hypnosis. Pain play is more chemical. Endorphin high.

This was how I saw it - like hypnosis.

--

*eyebrow cock...THIS,- I would like an elaboration on please...
*curtsey~

See above in reference to the command. If I am stimulating MIS, I can give her a command and she will launch into light subspace. The conditions need to be right, and her mindset has to be in a certain space, but the command is what triggers it.

*not that it is 'needed,'...but I concur~

During the time period when that show was on, she was pretty much the definition of hot in my mind. For all I know, this is why the combination of hot women and rope is so natural in my mind.

 

[WearMeWell]

Physiological Processes

During the scene, the intense experiences of both pain and pleasure trigger a sympathetic nervous system response, which causes a release of epinephrine from the suprarenal glands, as well as a dump of endorphins and enkephalins. These natural chemicals, part of the fight or flight response produce the same effect as a morphine-like drug, increasing the pain tolerance of the submissive as the scene becomes more intense. Producing a sort of trance-like state due to the increase of hormones and chemicals, the submissive starts to feel out-of-body, detached from reality, and as the high comes down, and the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in, a deep exhaustion, as well as incoherence. Many submissives once reaching a height of subspace will lose all sensation of pain, as any stimulus causes the period to prolong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_(BDSM)

*Thank you for this nh23

 

[Abraxas Winterlight]

*im laughing...i love animals, -especially puppies...but im still laughing.--i, i cant help it!~...**giggle fit

this should make you giggle harder




I am actually a Mailman

delivering letters & everything

 

[Abraxas Winterlight]

During the time period when that show was on, she was pretty much the definition of hot in my mind. For all I know, this is why the combination of hot women and rope is so natural in my mind.

you know, if she had busted out of her clothes like Lou ferigno did in The Incredible Hulk, that show would still be on the air

 

[Netzach]

I can go into fits of hysterical laughter with heavy pain play though if I'm not careful.

Catalina

Euphoria counts, sorry.

But like nh intimated, behavioral modification is some powerful stuff. Hence why you can fight it, but there you are, you have to fight off the laughter. Something physical is happening.

Personally I believe that subspace is an altered state that a person with a functioning brain can get to in the right circumstance and with the right friends. We call it "subspace" because in SM this state is more often sought or attributed to submissives being triggered by their Dominants.

But I know people who get triggered there by excercise, ritual, music, a lot of things. Awesome vanilla fucking. Mountains. A good bar fight.

I'd say that humans generally are looking for that connected, spiritual plane and fog of reality. We need it. HOW we get it is going to differ.

And yeah, I don't like my slave in the not-attentive zone either. That's what his half marathons are for.

 

[WearMeWell]

See above in reference to the command. If I am stimulating MIS, I can give her a command and she will launch into light subspace. The conditions need to be right, and her mindset has to be in a certain space, but the command is what triggers it.

*completely intrigued~...how in the world would someone effect something like this/that?
--of course, I am one that stilol does not believe(due to lack of "personally witnessed/experienced" evidence, that someome can "cum on command." *soft pink warming my cheeks~ *pressing backs of my cool fingers along my flushing cheeks~ ...mercy.

...What are the steps one would begin using to effect this kind of result? Does it take long time? Are there factors that the sub must
'pre-possess'?
**Stops*--suddenly realizes I am verily pummeling You with questions...
*takes a breath...*lets it out~...*my apologies~


During the time period when that show was on, she was pretty much the definition of hot in my mind. For all I know, this is why the combination of hot women and rope is so natural in my mind.

*Soft chuckle~...

 

[Netzach]

"
...What are the steps one would begin using to effect this kind of result? Does it take long time? Are there factors that the sub must
'pre-possess'?
**Stops*--suddenly realizes I am verily pummeling You with questions...
*takes a breath...*lets it out~...*my apologies~"


1. Have someone madly, absurdly, desperately in love with you. 1 min - 50 or more yrs.

2. Have someone madly, absurdly, desperately committed to and in love with their notion of themselves as submissive and for use and for service.

3. Combinations of A and B varying from ratios of 50:50 to 1:20,000.