At least five one-bombs in the last ten votes

[rjordan]

Oh? Have you actually seen posters posting that?

Since 1* is a perfectly valid vote, why is anyone questioning the motives of those awarding it? Has anyone posting to complain about 1* votes "actually seen posters posting" about their motivation? They're called 1-bombs--obviously they aren't accepted as valid votes.

I have yet to see anyone questioning the motivation for 5*. By implication, they are accepted as earned without ulterior motive.

Just an observation. I guess something that is accepted to 2 decimal places must be accurate and true.

rj

 

[KeithD]

I have yet to see anyone questioning the motivation for 5*.

Apparently you haven't been reading enough posts on the boards. Over the years I've seen posts questioning 5s as well as 1s.

And if you're thinking that there aren't folks here awarding 1s, 2s, and even 3s solely on vote maneuvering and/or punishment totally unrelated to the stories themselves or that there isn't chum 5 voting going on with no requirement to even read the story, I'm thinking your middle name must be Pollyanna.

It goes with the wide-open response territory here. The Web site certainly recognizes it's going on. That's the reason they have a sweep program.

 

[rjordan]

The title of the thread, all the way up top, was “At least five one-bombs in the last ten votes,” beginning after reaching 100 votes, and having votes 1 to 100 mathematically average over 4.8 (plus benefiting from contest sweeps.)

- Votes 1 to 100, 4.8.
- Votes 100 to 110, approximately 2.5.

There is a pattern there. Mathematically. That’s the point and focus of the thread.

It's not a mathematical pattern. It's, at best, a psychological pattern. It's based on reader motivation which is not something that mathematics will reveal, nor will you likely be able to identify the source of any pattern in a meaningful way.

rj

 

[KeithD]

It's not a mathematical pattern. It's, at best, a psychological pattern. It's based on reader motivation which is not something that mathematics will reveal, nor will you likely be able to identify the source of any pattern in a meaningful way.

rj

I'm sorry, you're sort of running off in directions that I haven't been posting on. Tagging me with doing mathematical analysis on the discussion board and making anything out of that? Now I really know you haven't done much reading on the board--certainly not of my postings.

 

[rjordan]

And if you're thinking that there aren't folks here awarding 1s, 2s, and even 3s solely on vote maneuvering and/or punishment totally unrelated to the stories themselves or that there isn't chum 5 voting going on with no requirement to even read the story, I'm thinking your middle name must be Pollyanna.

Of course, that's going on. That's partly my point. The voting is nearly worthless as a measure of what people think of a particular story. For all the reasons you cite. Yet, they are discussed here to 2 decimal places as if that sort of precision is inherent in the data. The voting is crap so the results are crap to two decimal places.

I've mentioned my own voting as a reader for the last 20 years here. 5* for any story that gives me even mild wood or that I can actually finish. I don't give any other vote. It can be a writer I can't stand or a story that sucks. If it meets my criteria, 5*. If it doesn't, no vote.

On the other hand, I frequently comment on stories. Usually positively, especially for new writers who often need some validation.

rj

 

[rjordan]

I'm sorry, you're sort of running off in directions that I haven't been posting on. Tagging me with doing mathematical analysis on the discussion board and making anything out of that? Now I really know you haven't done much reading on the board--certainly not of my postings.

Well, I confess I don't read your posts very often. I don't believe I addressed you about anything mathematical. That was the OP.

rj

 

[jsmiam]

It's not a mathematical pattern. It's, at best, a psychological pattern. It's based on reader motivation which is not something that mathematics will reveal, nor will you likely be able to identify the source of any pattern in a meaningful way.

rj

Law of averages = math/statistics. Arrival rate. Queuing theory. Poisson distribution. All math. Math that supports the whole point of the thread, that a very abrupt change from roughly 20 to 30 high votes for every 1 bad one, to 1 out of every two occurred at the exact moment of briefly appearing on the top list. Again. The whole point of the thread.

But your reader motivations point is a good one, thanks for being so agreeable, that reader motivations changed at the exact moment the story hit the top list. I appreciate the supportive post!

 

[KeithD]

Well, I confess I don't read your posts very often. I don't believe I addressed you about anything mathematical. That was the OP.

rj

You're right. You weren't quoting me. I must have been having a senior moment.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But your reader motivations point is a good one, thanks for being so agreeable, that reader motivations changed at the exact moment the story hit the top list. I appreciate the supportive post!

You got the Top List Blues, I'd say.

Unlike Robert Johnson at the crossroads, where you do a deal with the devil for good music, on the top lists it seems to me you only do a deal with fools.

It's still a bummer though, to have to put up with that shit.

 

[LAHomedog]

I think there is a distinction between "sex fiction" and fiction that includes sexual content. The difference, in my mind, is in the purpose. If other authors write with the goal of getting readers off that's great. But it's not what I do.

When I write sex scenes, I, of course, try to write the best sex scene I can. But I only writes those scenes if they advance the plot, not to provide stroking material.

I don't know if you have read any of my writing,but -- and I believe NotWise knows this about me -- I don't write strokers or porn . I write stories. Actually screneplays in the form of prose. With three acts, at least one story, sometimes a B-story and real characters, dialogue with unique voices and moved by motivation, desires, feelings and sub-text.

Except for the sex scenes that I put into a cold opening, everyone is to move the story or character development along. And in many ways, the cold openings do that to because one of my favorite devices is to take a sex scene from the last act, Act III, use it as the cold opening and then circle back to it in the narrative.

But I do believe besides entertain, one of the purposes of the exercise on here is to turn your reader on. And that is what I hope to do with each story. Write a good story and turn my readers on.

 

[jsmiam]

Well, I confess I don't read your posts very often. I don't believe I addressed you about anything mathematical. That was the OP.

rj

You're right. You weren't quoting me. I must have been having a senior moment.

In the interest of accuracy, post 23 on page 1 where I mentioned math was my reply to rjordan. Other than a blanket/group thank you for replies (Post 13, ""To the various responses, all make good points.") which included KeithD, none of my replies were @KeithD.

Sidenote, post sweep number 3 that took me back to 4.9 @ 110 votes for a few hours were followed by 4 1-bombs in a row.

Again, to help some folks, I tend to believe that most scores tend to be 5s or 1s. 5=love, 1=hate.

If 9 out of every 10 readers love a story and 1 hates it, that's 5 times 9 = 45 + 1 = 46 divided by ten, = 4.6.

If 19 out of every 20 readers love a story and 1 hates it, that's 5 times 19 = 95 + 1 = 96 divided by 20, = 4.8.

I don't recall saying if it's a 1-bomb, it must be invalid. I said, to instantly see a dramatic change in that love/hate ratio after 100 votes and at the same time as hitting the top list, it's interesting. Take behavioral issues out of the equation, most scores are a simple reflection of the overall love/hate ratio a story generates, on average.

 

[jsmiam]

You got the Top List Blues, I'd say.

Unlike Robert Johnson at the crossroads, where you do a deal with the devil for good music, on the top lists it seems to me you only do a deal with fools.

It's still a bummer though, to have to put up with that shit.

I'm halfway through the Robert Johnson documentary on Netflix. Check out the documentary on Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rush, and ZZ Top too!

 

[ElectricBlue]

Again, to help some folks, I tend to believe that most scores tend to be 5s or 1s. 5=love, 1=hate.

When I track my new story scores, they're predominantly 4s and 5s, the occasional 3. One-bombs are easy to spot, and disappear in sweeps over time. My scores are never as binary as yours seem to be. But then, I don't write in the contentious categories.

 

[TadOverdon]

The line between erotica and porn is as good as nonexistent insofar as everyone and anyone draws it wherever it suits their own tastes. Occasionally, courts have even dragged in to try to draw one, and it's like trying to paint a line down the middle of the Mississippi. Sex fiction is just a more inclusive generic term.

 

[jsmiam]

When I track my new story scores, they're predominantly 4s and 5s, the occasional 3. One-bombs are easy to spot, and disappear in sweeps over time. My scores are never as binary as yours seem to be. But then, I don't write in the contentious categories.

Mine are normally the same. It's new territory for me to make an appearance on a top list with very temporary moments at number 1, and it's only been there with this current experience on Exhibitionism and Voyeur and for a period (but then it stopped) also on Anal. For the most part, my stories as a lower-volume author do the same thing I do at cocktail parties, find a nice out of the way corner next to a tall plant and stay there without drawing much attention.

A topic for a different thread entirely is the 4's. In my case, my stories have always tended to contain at least a few crimes against rules of style and grammar, and I've almost always seen subtle scoring differences in how many 4's I get, based on how good a job I did in my proofreading. I take that fully in stride, so when, for example, my stories, as they tend to do, overuse commas, I understand when I get hit. And it helps me remember to work on my bad habits.

 

[Candy_Kane54]

Apparently you haven't been reading enough posts on the boards. Over the years I've seen posts questioning 5s as well as 1s.

And if you're thinking that there aren't folks here awarding 1s, 2s, and even 3s solely on vote maneuvering and/or punishment totally unrelated to the stories themselves or that there isn't chum 5 voting going on with no requirement to even read the story, I'm thinking your middle name must be Pollyanna.

It goes with the wide-open response territory here. The Web site certainly recognizes it's going on. That's the reason they have a sweep program.

It's been my experience that more 5's have been swept from my stories than all other votes combined. So yes, there are 5 bombs (although I think a lot of them are actually partners who have both read my stories and vote but the sweeps remove multiple votes from the same IP address).

 

[windar]

I write stories. Actually screneplays in the form of prose.

But I do believe besides entertain, one of the purposes of the exercise on here is to turn your reader on. And that is what I hope to do with each story. Write a good story and turn my readers on.

That's what I strive for as well. A reader on another site said of a recent story my co-author and I wrote, an action-packed tale of a female spy in Occupied France and inside Germany itself - "Very well written and a good, albeit sad story! Should be made into a movie!"

I suppose it would have to have some scenes cut or modified to get an R, rather than the dreaded NC-17 or even X...

 

[KeithD]

I suppose it would have to have some scenes cut or modified to get an R, rather than the dreaded NC-17 or even X...

Wouldn't need cuts to be made into a glossy XXX movie. I think there's demand for more of those, and Lit. would be a good place to mine for plot ideas for such movies.

 

[windar]

Wouldn't need cuts to be made into a glossy XXX movie. I think there's demand for more of those, and Lit. would be a good place to mine for plot ideas for such movies.

The day when such movies had plots are mostly past. Nowadays (not that I EVER watch them, but I hear stories) they're mostly "The landlord wants the rent RIGHT NOW and I have no money. How can I pay him? Oh, yeah, I can give him a hummer..."

The plots back in the days of "I Am Curious, Yellow" were mostly to be able to claim "Redeeming social value-it's not porn, it's about the injustice of our society!" Though, to be honest I tend to have that as a sub-plot in my stories quite frequently.

 

[PennameWombat]

That's what I strive for as well. A reader on another site said of a recent story my co-author and I wrote, an action-packed tale of a female spy in Occupied France and inside Germany itself - "Very well written and a good, albeit sad story! Should be made into a movie!"

I suppose it would have to have some scenes cut or modified to get an R, rather than the dreaded NC-17 or even X...

Just because it's bits of the trivia my brain has hoovered up over the years...

NC-17 came about because the MPAA failed to trademark 'X' as a movie rating. Thus, porn producers used it as a badge of... um... honor . As well as 'XXX' and so on.

I'm not an exhaustive chronicler of the situation, but the only real porn 'movies' being made now seem to be the various parody movies (Dr. Who, Big Bang Theory, etc.)

But there are 'mainstream' NC-17 movies.

 

[desecration]

On every site I have ever known that has voting, a clique has emerged that downvotes anyone's content but their own. This leads to some stagnation.

 

[KeithD]

The day when such movies had plots are mostly past.

The opinion I was giving was that I don't think they need be. I think there's a market for them. I've been pretty successful in the marketplace in finding underserved niches and making money off of writing to them. I think a moviemaker could do the same with longer-length, good script and filming, graphic sex movies. I think there are plotlines in Lit. stories that would film well (and profitably).

 

[ElectricBlue]

On every site I have ever known that has voting, a clique has emerged that downvotes anyone's content but their own. This leads to some stagnation.

Lit's not too bad nowadays.

When I joined back in 2014, the clique behaviour during contests was astonishing, absolutely feral, without any grace or dignity on the part of the worst offenders. Jackals in a zoo pit were more civilised. Those groups, thankfully, have moved on.

 

[KeithD]

Lit's not too bad nowadays.

When I joined back in 2014, the clique behaviour during contests was astonishing, absolutely feral, without any grace or dignity on the part of the worst offenders. Jackals in a zoo pit were more civilised. Those groups, thankfully, have moved on.

Yeah, there was a fun flurry where one of our regular members went off on the club voting/commenting and was outed by another user as having been one of the club bloc voting members.

 

[NotWise]

In the interest of accuracy, post 23 on page 1 where I mentioned math was my reply to rjordan. Other than a blanket/group thank you for replies (Post 13, ""To the various responses, all make good points.") which included KeithD, none of my replies were @KeithD.

Sidenote, post sweep number 3 that took me back to 4.9 @ 110 votes for a few hours were followed by 4 1-bombs in a row.

Again, to help some folks, I tend to believe that most scores tend to be 5s or 1s. 5=love, 1=hate.

I started tracking the voting on my stories a long time ago, with the goal of understanding how votes are distributed. I've never seen a story get that kind of vote spread. The closest I've seen was from a story I published in the wrong category. Category readers hated it, the New list readers didn't.

If 9 out of every 10 readers love a story and 1 hates it, that's 5 times 9 = 45 + 1 = 46 divided by ten, = 4.6.

If 19 out of every 20 readers love a story and 1 hates it, that's 5 times 19 = 95 + 1 = 96 divided by 20, = 4.8.

I don't recall saying if it's a 1-bomb, it must be invalid. I said, to instantly see a dramatic change in that love/hate ratio after 100 votes and at the same time as hitting the top list, it's interesting. Take behavioral issues out of the equation, most scores are a simple reflection of the overall love/hate ratio a story generates, on average.

Up the thread a ways, you said you got ten votes averaging a score of 2.5 and seemed to think that meant you had at least 5 1* bombs. There are forty-three different combination of ten votes from 1 through 5 that will average to 2.5. Only five of the forty-three combinations have five 1* votes. Five have no 1* votes at all. Most of them have a broad distribution of votes weighted to the low end.

It's easy to point fingers at trolls, cliques, and the like, but when your story hit the top of the list, you probably drew votes from a different and more critical audience. The general audience was probably asking themselves "did I dig this story?" and rating your story highly. The readers picking it up off the top of the top list might have been asking themselves "does this story belong here?" and coming up with a different answer.

Maybe you did get trolled or bombed for competition. That might be a more satisfying explanation, but it isn't the only explanation.