At least five one-bombs in the last ten votes

[windar]

Having stories posted at Literotica is NOT self-publishing. literotica, not the writer, is the publisher. And Literotica doesn't post everything. It has selection criteria. We all see the posts of story rejections--that's selectivity in action. It is not self-publishing. In self-publishing, it is the author and only the author who decides whether the material is being published or not--and the author covering any costs. That's not what is happening at Literotica. The publisher, Literotica, decides and it covers any costs of the process.

I have to disagree. Unless you set up your own web site, you self-publish at someone else's site, which will have some rules. The most commonly used one by far is Amazon. They call it self publishing if you post your story there. They have rules regarding formatting and content just like Lit. Those rules are NOT about the quality of the story, either at Amazon or at Lit; they concern certain forbidden content (enforced inconsistently at both places) but they are not like publishing with the traditional publishers where an editor reads your manuscript and decides if it has literary merit. No one has ever been rejected at either place because their story was trite or the dialog wooden.

As for costs, beyond web-hosting, what costs does Lit cover (or Amazon for that matter)? None. Zero.

 

[KeithD]

I have to disagree. Unless you set up your own web site, you self-publish at someone else's site, which will have some rules. The most commonly used one by far is Amazon. They call it self publishing if you post your story there. They have rules regarding formatting and content just like Lit. Those rules are NOT about the quality of the story, either at Amazon or at Lit; they concern certain forbidden content (enforced inconsistently at both places) but they are not like publishing with the traditional publishers where an editor reads your manuscript and decides if it has literary merit. No one has ever been rejected at either place because their story was trite or the dialog wooden.

As for costs, beyond web-hosting, what costs does Lit cover (or Amazon for that matter)? None. Zero.

Disinformation. If you post to someone else's Web site, the someone else is the publisher, not you. That negates the "self-publishing" issue right there. If that someone else retains the right to whether your material goes on their Web site, or not, that's them using the power of selection, that's not you self-publishing. If they cover the costs of what goes on their Web site, that's them publishing, not you self-publishing.

Three strikes and you are out on you being a self-publisher for the material under your authorship that Literotica publishes.

This isn't really up for vote. This is a basic publishing concept. These are industry-supplied definitions.

 

[lovecraft68]

Having stories posted at Literotica is NOT self-publishing. literotica, not the writer, is the publisher. And Literotica doesn't post everything. It has selection criteria. We all see the posts of story rejections--that's selectivity in action. It is not self-publishing. In self-publishing, it is the author and only the author who decides whether the material is being published or not--and the author covering any costs. That's not what is happening at Literotica. The publisher, Literotica, decides and it covers any costs of the process.

And on Smashwords, you upload your book, they put t through they are the publisher, yet that's self publishing.

On Amazon they publish the book, but that's self publishing.

On literotica you submit the story, they publish it, they are...

And again, all platforms decide if they're going to accept your work based on whatever rules they have or other issues. Only difference is on pay sites you're also dealing with a cover image which is something else that can get you booted.

Unless someone has bought your work and then publishes it through their 'house' after making-or asking you to-make any changes they want, then you are self publishing. Watt pad, SOL, Lush stories, all self publishing.

Not going to keep arguing semantics all day. If it feeds your endless delusional ego to pretend Literotica is your 'publisher' have at it. Maybe you can be like scouries and start claiming you get royalties from here, but some people live in the real world.

 

[windar]

Disinformation. If you post to someone else's Web site, the someone else is the publisher, not you. That negates the "self-publishing" issue right there. If that someone else retains the right to whether your material goes on their Web site, or not, that's them using the power of selection, that's not you self-publishing. If they cover the costs of what goes on their Web site, that's them publishing, not you self-publishing.

Three strikes and you are out on you being a self-publisher for the material under your authorship that Literotica publishes.

This isn't really up for vote. This is a basic publishing concept. These are industry-supplied definitions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-publishing

 

[lovecraft68]

Disinformation. If you post to someone else's Web site, the someone else is the publisher, not you. That negates the "self-publishing" issue right there. If that someone else retains the right to whether your material goes on their Web site, or not, that's them using the power of selection, that's not you self-publishing. If they cover the costs of what goes on their Web site, that's them publishing, not you self-publishing.

Three strikes and you are out on you being a self-publisher for the material under your authorship that Literotica publishes.

This isn't really up for vote. This is a basic publishing concept. These are industry-supplied definitions.

Then by this note, no one is self published anywhere because its the venue you submitted to that is the 'publisher"

So there is then no such thing as a self published author? That term has just existed since the inception of kindle for no reason? Everyone that has ever put an e-book up for sale is a full blown publisher like Random house and Simon and Schuster?

Well, hot damn, I'm going to drive up to Maine and knock on King's door and say Hello, fellow published author! You and I are the same you know!

There is a difference, but this just confirms all your talk of being professionally published is BS because obviously you're self published, but saying you have a publisher.

Explains a lot.

 

[KeithD]

And on Smashwords, you upload your book, they put t through they are the publisher, yet that's self publishing.

On Amazon they publish the book, but that's self publishing.

On literotica you submit the story, they publish it, they are...

The author has incurred all production costs in what goes on Smashwords and Amazon and these platforms ares operating as book packagers. They are hybrids and the Literotica model is completely different and is NOT SELF-PUBLISHING. They also charge the author for hosting their material by taking money out of sales. Yes, they are publishers, using a hybrid model, but YOU are not publishing when your material is being hosted by them. You are not self-publishing when you use Smashwords or Amazon. You have been selected to pay them to host your material. You yourself constantly moan here about what material of yours they won't let you pay to be hosted there. They are applying selectivity to the material, you aren't. You aren't "self" deciding Smashwords and Amazon are going to carry your material.

This is not up for vote by easybutton "experts."

Literotica story contributors are not the publisher, self or otherwise; they are subject to Literotica selection decisions; and Literotica isn't charging them anything to host the works or paying them anything in any form to do so.

Literotica is not self-publishing.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Disinformation. If you post to someone else's Web site, the someone else is the publisher, not you. That negates the "self-publishing" issue right there. If that someone else retains the right to whether your material goes on their Web site, or not, that's them using the power of selection, that's not you self-publishing. If they cover the costs of what goes on their Web site, that's them publishing, not you self-publishing.

Three strikes and you are out on you being a self-publisher for the material under your authorship that Literotica publishes.

This isn't really up for vote. This is a basic publishing concept. These are industry-supplied definitions.

A quick look online for self-publishing will list Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Nobles, and other with their self-publishing processes which involve uploading a properly formatted text to publish. All of those have their formats and rules for what eventually ends up on their site. And the only real distinction between those and other publishers is that the author retains all rights to the material and must do their own marketing.

But ... on Literotica, unless I go forth via these forums to find an audience to read my stuff, it's just a random chance that anyone will open my stories. So, a difference which makes no difference is no difference at all. LitE doesn't market my stuff either.

 

[KeithD]

But ... on Literotica, unless I go forth via these forums to find an audience to read my stuff, it's just a random chance that anyone will open my stories. So, a difference which makes no difference is no difference at all. LitE doesn't market my stuff either.

I'm not sure what point you're making regarding whether having material posted to Literotica or not is self-publishing. It isn't. I am posting specifically to Lovecraft's disinformation that Literotica publishing is self-publishing.

Literotica is the publisher, not the author. Literotica, not the author, decides whether the material will be posted and the criteria under which it will be posted; and the "self," the author, isn't covering the costs of any of it being specifically posted to Literotica.

You are NOT self-publishing the material you author that Literotica posts.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't pretend to be an expert on the world of personal online publishing, because I don't participate in that, but I don't see myself as a "publisher" at Literotica. The publisher is Literotica. I am an author.

I submit a story to Literotica. Literotica quickly reviews and approves my story. It publishes it on its website. It pays all the costs associated with putting it on the website. I cover none of them and I don't know what they are. Any and all money that comes in for the website goes to Literotica, not to me. I have nothing to do with anything other than writing and submitting a story to a website owner that puts the story on the website.

So I don't see how I'm a publisher, even broadly defined.

The new reality of online publishing has blurred the publisher/author distinction. There are hybrid online systems where authors have control over certain aspects of their work that in the past were the domain of publishers, as classically understood. On platforms where authors have some creative and business control over things like book covers, artwork, promotional activities, price-setting, distribution, etc. I can see how authors can come to be publishers as well, perhaps in tandem with the owner of the online platform. But none of this really applies to Literotica.

To the degree it's just fussing over the meaning of the term, it's not a debate worth having. But to the degree there is some difference in legal or ethical responsibility between the publisher and author, it's worth understanding, and I see myself here as solely an author, not a publisher.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'm not sure what point you're making regarding whether having material posted to Literotica or not is self-publishing. It isn't. I am posting specifically to Lovecraft's disinformation that Literotica publishing is self-publishing.

Literotica is the publisher, not the author. Literotica, not the author, decides whether the material will be posted and the criteria under which it will be posted; and the "self," the author, isn't covering the costs of any of it being specifically posted to Literotica.

You are NOT self-publishing the material you author that Literotica posts.

But those same points can be said about Amazon, Apple, etc that THEY cover the costs of maintaining their sites and they also decide what may finally be posted on their sites.

The only major distinction I can see is those other sites require somewhat better editorial reviewing (ie. rejecting some of the grammar crap we sometimes see here), and some book cover artwork.

So, LitE is doing the same thing, with lower standards.

 

[KeithD]

To the degree it's just fussing over the meaning of the term, it's not a debate worth having. But to the degree there is some difference in legal or ethical responsibility between the publisher and author, it's worth understanding, and I see myself here as solely an author, not a publisher.

I think the reality, Lovecraft being Lovecraft, is him reacting to my posting that I don't self-publish (which he does) and a petty attempt to claim that I do because I submit stories to Literotica. Yep, I think all of this is as simple as that.

But it's general disinformation for other writers. You are not self-publishing what of yours gets posted at Literotica. You are being published by Literotica.

 

[KeithD]

But those same points can be said about Amazon, Apple, etc that THEY cover the costs of maintaining their sites and they also decide what may finally be posted on their sites.

First off, this is about Literotica, not Amazon and Smashwords. The original claim I was responding to is about Literotica.

And second, Amazon and Smashwords are profit companies. They sure as hell are taking whatever money they can, individually by sales commissions, out of the authors they are hosting.

 

[Lifestyle66]

First off, this is about Literotica, not Amazon and Smashwords. The original claim I was responding to is about Literotica.

And second, Amazon and Smashwords are profit companies. They sure as hell are taking whatever money they can out of the authors they are hosting.

I thought this was about self-publishing, and whether or not LitE fit that general category.

Write, self-edit, post, await their approval, and it appears online. You own all rights to the material, and it's the author's responsibility to market for an audience.

Other than those other sites requiring better grammar and cover artwork, and they can set a price to provide the author with income, what's the difference?

LitE makes their money off the constant stream of new free material to maintain their audience for ads which appear at the top of the pages.

 

[KeithD]

I thought this was about self-publishing, and whether or not LitE fit that general category.

Then your posts aren't to me. My posting was directly to a statement of disinformation by Lovecraft68.

What of yours that is being posted to Literotica is not being self-published by you. Literotica is the publisher and has selected your material to post subject to you following their publishing guidelines. That is NOT self-publishing.

 

[rjordan]

So there is then no such thing as a self published author? That term has just existed since the inception of kindle for no reason? Everyone that has ever put an e-book up for sale is a full blown publisher like Random house and Simon and Schuster?

The term self-publishing goes back way before kindle was even possible. It originated with those who could not get a book publisher to buy their book, print it and market it in the traditional (paper) way.

So you gave your manuscript to a company that essentially just printed the books for you. Some would help out with a cover design. Very little if any editing was involved.

Several weeks later, a truck would back up to your garage and unload a pallet of printed books. It was up to you, in the days before internet, to figure out how to sell them. It was not uncommon that such authors would carry a carton of them and sell them out of the trunk/boot of their car.

"Self-publishing" was a decidedly derogatory term for wannabe authors who couldn't find a publisher to represent them.

Someone here made the correct observation that the term has lost much of its former meaning. There are gray areas between traditional publishing and doing it all yourself. "Self-publishing" is probably not a meaningful term anymore.

rj

 

[lovecraft68]

I thought this was about self-publishing, and whether or not LitE fit that general category.

Write, self-edit, post, await their approval, and it appears online. You own all rights to the material, and it's the author's responsibility to market for an audience.

Other than those other sites requiring better grammar and cover artwork, and they can set a price to provide the author with income, what's the difference?

LitE makes their money off the constant stream of new free material to maintain their audience for ads which appear at the top of the pages.

The topic is Lit/self publishing. I brought the other platforms in because its relevant to the conversation. The fact lit is a free site doesn't mean anything because-

1-pay platforms allow people to post work for free, meaning they get nothing from it-which is a peeve of mine, but that's a very different conversation- so there is a comparison

2-Keith's point that those platforms profit from your work is correct, They get a percentage of your sales.

But I'll counter with this. How does Lit make money? Advertising and they sell toys, have cam sites linked here... Where is the advertising etc...is it on the boards? No

Its on the story page. Keith's stories, mine, yours because that is why people come here to read stories so the advertisers pay Laurel/Manu money to put links there...meaning...yes, lit makes money from us, its less direct, but they do. Back to Keith, between his pen names he has what? 1500ish stories? How much money has Lit made from him? Some I'm sure.

My argument is if you are the author, and you are submitting to where ever, responsible for your own editing, formatting, cover(sale platforms) then you are self publishing.

When someone signs you to a book deal, takes your work, and they're doing everything for you including marketing, distributing sales, editing etc...that is being published. It says Random house on the spine of the paperback not "Halfwit publishing" through createspace(sorry, that's amazon now)

That's the difference. Everything else is word play.

 

[windar]

First off, this is about Literotica, not Amazon and Smashwords. The original claim I was responding to is about Literotica.

And second, Amazon and Smashwords are profit companies. They sure as hell are taking whatever money they can, individually by sales commissions, out of the authors they are hosting.

Are you pretending that Lit is not for profit? They just have a business model that uses the free stories as a platform to sell cam chats and toys and the like.

Let's cut to the chase. The discussion is about whether putting a story on Lit or Amazon or Smash is an accomplishment in and of itself. It isn't. That isn't to say it isn't a good story which you can justifiably be proud of. It could be better than something that had full editorial review at a publishing house. But simply putting it on any of those sites is not an accomplishment in and of itself. It simply means you didn't get caught violating the content rules and know how to space paragraphs and use Spell Check.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Then your posts aren't to me. My posting was directly to a statement of disinformation by Lovecraft68.

What of yours that is being posted to Literotica is not being self-published by you. Literotica is the publisher and has selected your material to post subject to you following their publishing guidelines. That is NOT self-publishing.

??????? "is the publisher and has selected your material to post subject to you following their publishing guidelines. "

This applies to all of those other online services which are listed as self-publishing sites! It's merely a difference in those publishing guidelines.

I don't know if you realize it, but there are authors here on LitE who post their stories, await ratings and comments, solicit editors to review, then refine their story to publish and sell for profit on those other sites. Those authors are using the lower standards of LitE self-publishing to prototype their stories, similar to an ad agency using a focus group to provide a preview of audience reception.

 

[windar]

??????? "is the publisher and has selected your material to post subject to you following their publishing guidelines. "

This applies to all of those other online services which are listed as self-publishing sites! It's merely a difference in those publishing guidelines.

I don't know if you realize it, but there are authors here on LitE who post their stories, await ratings and comments, solicit editors to review, then refine their story to publish and sell for profit on those other sites. Those authors are using the lower standards of LitE self-publishing to prototype their stories, similar to an ad agency using a focus group to provide a preview of audience reception.

Yes, and you retain full rights to any story you put on Lit. You can put it on 100 other sites, both free and pay and as you note, many people do. Try that with Simon and Schuster...

 

[KeithD]

??????? "is the publisher and has selected your material to post subject to you following their publishing guidelines. "

This applies to all of those other online services which are listed as self-publishing sites! It's merely a difference in those publishing guidelines.

I don't know if you realize it, but there are authors here on LitE who post their stories, await ratings and comments, solicit editors to review, then refine their story to publish and sell for profit on those other sites. Those authors are using the lower standards of LitE self-publishing to prototype their stories, similar to an ad agency using a focus group to provide a preview of audience reception.

The issue I am addressing is whether or not Literotica is a self-publisher.

If you think I need to be told about authors selling their works anywhere, you haven't bothered to research me.

 

[KeithD]

Are you pretending that Lit is not for profit? .

No. I'm saying being published by Literotica is not self-publishing. It isn't. It's true that there are few nonprofit publishers and that Literotica isn't a nonprofit publisher. That's irrelevant to the issue. Literotica, not the author, is the publisher here. "Self-publishing" is irrelevant to what is happening at Literotica.

 

[windar]

No. I'm saying being published by Literotica is not self-publishing. It isn't. It's true that there are few nonprofit publishers and that Literotica isn't a nonprofit publisher. That's irrelevant to the issue. Literotica, not the author, is the publisher here. "Self-publishing" is irrelevant to what is happening at Literotica.

You haven't explained how the process of posting a story at Amazon, which calls it "self-publishing" differs from that at Literotica...So either you're wrong or Bezos is wrong...

 

[KeithD]

You haven't explained how the process of posting a story at Amazon, which calls it "self-publishing" differs from that at Literotica...So either you're wrong or Bezos is wrong...

No, I haven't because (for the thirty-fourth time) it's not the issue I was addressing. Amazon is not Literotica.

When you are being published by Literotica, this is not self-publishing.

I'll continue posting this truth until you absorb it.

 

[Lifestyle66]

You haven't explained how the process of posting a story at Amazon, which calls it "self-publishing" differs from that at Literotica...So either you're wrong or Bezos is wrong...

Exactly. He's repeatedly avoiding any specifics of "WTF is the difference?", when those other sites are doing the same thing with varying levels of their own guidelines of what they'll put on their sites.

 

[windar]

No, I haven't because (for the thirty-fourth time) it's not the issue I was addressing. Amazon is not Literotica.

When you are being published by Literotica, this is not self-publishing.

I'll continue posting this truth until you absorb it.

Truth? You can't handle the truth!

Your calling something "truth" when it isn't is ludicrous...