BDSM - D/s & Monogomy

[catalina_francisco]

Huh. Well, I am a monogamist but I don't consider myself to be lazy. I'm just not made for poly. Those of you that are I say more power to you.

I do think kinksters are just as likely as the non-kinky to be lazy within relationships and trade partners willy-nilly. Just look around this board for numerous examples of such.

LOL, I'm with you, and what I think may be interpreted as laziness in this instance is perhaps more aptly described as unmotivated. I know for me personally I am likely to be unmotivated in terms of putting a lot of emotional energy into a third simply because I know myself well enough by now to know I am very unlikely to care about 2 people at the same point in time as I do F. How can I know that so definately? Simply because when I am with someone seriously, especially F, I do not even have the capability to lower the walls enough to let another gain access to that part of me. It is not even a conscious thing....I just am one of those old fashioned people who commit, and from that point on, do not see anyone else in terms of possible love material. If I become unhappy in a relationship, I sift through it, maybe give it a few more tries, but then I move on, and then after leaving, at some point start looking for another relationship.

For us, as much as the fantasy can be a draw, I just don't see a third ever getting their fair share because apart from our immersment in each other, we don't ever have enough hours in the day to do the things we have to do...if we took time away from our relationship to give to another, I think we would be very foolish, short sighted, and possibly at some point very sorry we were so stupid to sacrifice the happiness we have for a momentary fantasy to reality fling. I still admire those who do it, but I believe it is a matter of how you are wired as to whether you can do it successfully or not..I am not wired in such a way I can give equal time and affection to 2 lovers at the same time and thus feel it unfair to try.

I actually was watching a programme earlier this week about couples who had moved into poly by adding a third. For this episode, it was the woman in the relationship who added a third to the mix. Some felt it was fun and working, though all spoke of possible parting of ways in the future, but the one I found the saddest was a guy who had been married for several years, had children with his wife, who then decided she wanted to start kissing other men she found attractive, and of course before long, wanted to move one in to be part of their relationship. He looked so sad as he explained he had given her permission simply because he knew if he didn't she would either do it anyway or eventually leave him. He found he couldn't cope well with it, she decided she wanted seperate living, so he went back to being on his own though still married, seeing the children on weekends...she stayed in the house with the children with the other guy either there or in his own flat. For me, the husband was clearly someone who is not wired for poly and no amount of trying could make it work for him....I could identify and see a lot of myself in that. It doesn't make one type of person better than the other, but does require each to recognise they are different and not try and force their preference onto another.

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

I read through this as the topic interested me greatly.

More than a year ago, my husband and I decided we were going to try polyamory. It wasnt a rash decision, we did discuss it and it became more of a gradual thing.

We now each have a lover, and are in a D/s relationship with them as well. From the beginning, Master has told me he would do nothing to interfere with my marriage and would leave, if it appeared our relationship was damaging it in any way.

He and I have been together for nearly 8 months now. Granted, he's 1000 miles away but we see each other once a month or every other month, and are in constant contact via IM and phone and email. He's been here while my husband was in town so the two of them could get to know each other and actually they're quite close.

My husband knows I love Master as much as I love him, honestly. And he loves his Mistress/lover. I realize that what I have is not the "norm", but I love what I have and I know that I'm the luckiest woman. Even right now, we're trying to work it out so that Master lives with us, either here or where he lives

We started out poly, but it feels as if I'm in a monogomous relationship with two men, as odd as that sounds. I know my husband, who has two other girlfriends, has been considering breaking it off with them, because of how he feels for his Mistress.

I agree with the one person who said their heart expands to love anyone who comes in to it's path. That's how I feel. Who says that by loving Master that diminishes the love I have for my husband? Who says I cant be IN LOVE with both of them? My heart has the capacity to love and I am content and fulfilled.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Who says that by loving Master that diminishes the love I have for my husband? Who says I cant be IN LOVE with both of them? My heart has the capacity to love and I am content and fulfilled.

I am happy you can, just for me I can't give the 100% I do in the way I do to more than one person at a time. I can love and include other people in my life such as children, family, friends, but they do not get the same amount or type of attention F gets. For me to be poly and love all involved, one would be getting more than the others, which is not only not fair, but also would still not and could not be 100% of me, just a part of me...it is how I am wired. I envy those who can divide themselves in such a way and feel fulfilled.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

It doesn't feel like a division to me either. I have together time and I have one on one time with all involved, and when it's one on one I am fully with that person. The other people are not being thought about extensively at that point - M is primary though, because that's the touchstone for me, the thing I go back to and am drawn back to for the relationship that makes daily living more rich and more wonderful. Other people have different roles and I a different role with them.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I've never really been able to separate love from sex, and I don't think I could ever halve my heart for someone else.

This, I think, is the biggest mis-conception people who are not poly have about being poly. Loving more than one person does NOT decrease the love you feel for one person or the other.

Anymore than having a second child halves the love you feel for your first.

It might halve the TIME you have available for the first when you add a second, but it does NOT lessen the feelings you have for them. For those of us that are poly, or poly-capable, our hearts are like balloons, they simply expand to hold more.

 

[ecstaticsub]

This, I think, is the biggest mis-conception people who are not poly have about being poly. Loving more than one person does NOT decrease the love you feel for one person or the other.

Anymore than having a second child halves the love you feel for your first.

It might halve the TIME you have available for the first when you add a second, but it does NOT lessen the feelings you have for them. For those of us that are poly, or poly-capable, our hearts are like balloons, they simply expand to hold more.

Exactly. And the more love I receive the more love I have to give.

 

[HottieMama]

Exactly. And the more love I receive the more love I have to give.

Me three....

 

[BiBunny]

This, I think, is the biggest mis-conception people who are not poly have about being poly. Loving more than one person does NOT decrease the love you feel for one person or the other.

Anymore than having a second child halves the love you feel for your first.

It might halve the TIME you have available for the first when you add a second, but it does NOT lessen the feelings you have for them. For those of us that are poly, or poly-capable, our hearts are like balloons, they simply expand to hold more.

Exactly. I believe the human heart has an infinite capacity for love, but most people never realize or experience that. I love Kitty, and I love B. in the same way and for mostly the same reasons. If one believes it's possible for a person to have a soulmate, why wouldn't it be possible for Geoff or me or whoever to have more than one? (I have a whole philosophy about this, but I won't go there because it's probably interesting only to me, LOL.)

 

[EmpressFi]

This, I think, is the biggest mis-conception people who are not poly have about being poly. Loving more than one person does NOT decrease the love you feel for one person or the other.

Anymore than having a second child halves the love you feel for your first.

It might halve the TIME you have available for the first when you add a second, but it does NOT lessen the feelings you have for them. For those of us that are poly, or poly-capable, our hearts are like balloons, they simply expand to hold more.

Can I say, I LOVE YOU... for describing it better than I ever could.

And I also agree about having more than one soulmate.. it's the same feeling. I've known I was meant to be with my husband from the moment I saw him. Same with Master and I know that he is also my soul's mate

 

[catalina_francisco]

This, I think, is the biggest mis-conception people who are not poly have about being poly. Loving more than one person does NOT decrease the love you feel for one person or the other.

Anymore than having a second child halves the love you feel for your first.

It might halve the TIME you have available for the first when you add a second, but it does NOT lessen the feelings you have for them. For those of us that are poly, or poly-capable, our hearts are like balloons, they simply expand to hold more.

I know for me it is not based on the concept I can't love more than one person, it is based on just what you said, I could no longer give as much of my time and energy to each as I do to F and that for me wouldn't work, and also wouldn't please him too much. Sheesh, he has me 24/7 now and feels it is not enough....even brings up often how he resents the fact we didn't meet 10 or more years ago, and he is serious. So introducing a third we were to have a love type relationship with just would be more trouble than it's worth IMHO and I'm feeling these days I have had more than enough drama in my life, I now want some security and peace and good loving without pressure. To me to think of living poly sort of brings to mind the old saying 'Jack of all trades, master of none'...it would be spreading myself thin amd giving only a part of myself to each person involved, and in so doing cheating myself and others of what I really could offer under different circumstances.

Catalina

 

[callinectes]

This, I think, is the biggest mis-conception people who are not poly have about being poly. Loving more than one person does NOT decrease the love you feel for one person or the other.

Anymore than having a second child halves the love you feel for your first.

It might halve the TIME you have available for the first when you add a second, but it does NOT lessen the feelings you have for them. For those of us that are poly, or poly-capable, our hearts are like balloons, they simply expand to hold more.

See, I don't labor under that mis-conception at all. My issues are similar to Cat's in that I would always worry I was short-changing of my partners. I also know that I tend to be jealous and I do have some insecurity issues. I can't imagine there are any worse personality traits to bring to the table in a poly situation. As such I simply choose not to go there. For those of you that are poly-capable, I'm all for it. I just can't do it.

 

[JMohegan]

Geoff - When you describe yourself as being "poly-capable", are you saying that you are poly-capable from both sides?

Would you be capable of sharing Janey's time with another male Dominant, allowing her to become intimate with him in every possible way during their time spent together?

There's no way in hell I'd be comfortable letting a partner of mine do that. Sure, I understand the hearts-a-balloon concept. But the human psyche is a complicated thing.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Geoff - When you describe yourself as being "poly-capable", are you saying that you are poly-capable from both sides?

Would you be capable of sharing Janey's time with another male Dominant, allowing her to become intimate with him in every possible way during their time spent together?

There's no way in hell I'd be comfortable letting a partner of mine do that. Sure, I understand the hearts-a-balloon concept. But the human psyche is a complicated thing.

I know your question isn't directed at me but if I may give my view on this. I am poly- but only as far as love is concerned. There is no way I could submit to more than one Dom at a time. This is a conversation that my Dom and I have had since we do bring in others to our play on occasion. I have found that I have no problem watching him having sex with others, nor am I jealous of the love he has for his wife but I get rather emotional when he talks of dominating someone else. And under no circumstances am I ever allowed to bottom or submit to anyone else.

I'm not sure why this is. Except that love is an emotion--you either feel it or you don't. Domination and submission is a choice. If he falls in love with someone else fine--but if he makes the choice to put the effort into taking that person has his submissive--that's difficult for me.

I don't know if that makes sense--it just is.

 

[catalina_francisco]

See, I don't labor under that mis-conception at all. My issues are similar to Cat's in that I would always worry I was short-changing of my partners. I also know that I tend to be jealous and I do have some insecurity issues. I can't imagine there are any worse personality traits to bring to the table in a poly situation. As such I simply choose not to go there. For those of you that are poly-capable, I'm all for it. I just can't do it.

LOL, I know it is popular to class jealousy as based in insecurity (who knows, in 100 years they may have a totally different theory on it), but I don't see it as simple as that or even necessarily having anything to do with insecurity. A few weeks ago on the BBC they showed an interesting clip they had captured through one of the many cameras they had around the UK focused on wildlife in the wild. It was a nest to which 2 birds had returned as they do each year..think they were Osprey, but that could be wrong as I watch lots of wildlife stuff...regardless, they were a life pair who returned each year to nest and hatch their babies together. This time the female has returned earlier than the male, and by the time he arrived, he found her in the nest with eggs from another male.

He proceeded to be nice to her, went out and got her a nice meal even, and as soon as she flew from the nest to eat the meal he quickly, angrily ( the anger was visible in every movement of his body) and effectively booted each and every egg out of the nest to the ground below where they were destroyed. She returned and they proceeded to get their relationship back on track whereby she then laid his eggs and they did as they always did, made lovely dovey moves together and saw to their family. It highlighted to me that it is not a uniquely human emotion to feel, nor is it about feeling you might be replaced in the other's affections, it is about maintaining the relationship and commitment to each other, forgiving transgressions, knowing the boundaries that can and cannot be crossed, and moving forward as a solid unit. I am sure many would get a different interpretation, but for me it demonstrated well that jealousy is not an exclusive human emotion to which so much human thought and emotion is often applied.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

LOL, I know it is popular to class jealousy as based in insecurity (who knows, in 100 years they may have a totally different theory on it), but I don't see it as simple as that or even necessarily having anything to do with insecurity. A few weeks ago on the BBC they showed an interesting clip they had captured through one of the many cameras they had around the UK focused on wildlife in the wild. It was a nest to which 2 birds had returned as they do each year..think they were Osprey, but that could be wrong as I watch lots of wildlife stuff...regardless, they were a life pair who returned each year to nest and hatch their babies together. This time the female has returned earlier than the male, and by the time he arrived, he found her in the nest with eggs from another male.

He proceeded to be nice to her, went out and got her a nice meal even, and as soon as she flew from the nest to eat the meal he quickly, angrily ( the anger was visible in every movement of his body) and effectively booted each and every egg out of the nest to the ground below where they were destroyed. She returned and they proceeded to get their relationship back on track whereby she then laid his eggs and they did as they always did, made lovely dovey moves together and saw to their family. It highlighted to me that it is not a uniquely human emotion to feel, nor is it about feeling you might be replaced in the other's affections, it is about maintaining the relationship and commitment to each other, forgiving transgressions, knowing the boundaries that can and cannot be crossed, and moving forward as a solid unit. I am sure many would get a different interpretation, but for me it demonstrated well that jealousy is not an exclusive human emotion to which so much human thought and emotion is often applied.

Catalina

You can ascribe whatever human emotion you want to animal behavior, but professional researchers will tell you this is totally invalid and how we end up with a lot of pseudoscientific "fact" about a lot of things pertaining to male/female "natures."

What he was doing was making sure his genetic line continued. He's a bird. It's his only job. She had already done hers, but in a way that froze him out, so he needed a re-do. Had he "beaten" her or done anything other than make her a nice meal and do all the normal overtures, he'd be SOL for different reasons.

Birds also do this cool thing wherein the SIBLING will boot the other eggs out with the same body language, I'll bet money, as our osprey "cuck husband" -- in fact I believe this is one species where this happens often. Again, we can assume that that other chick feels smug when he/she does it and go "how mean" but that's OUR hang up being projected.

Really they're aware of the fact that they're competing for resources and what you'd probably have is a nest full of dead chicks rather than one live adult if they're too thinly spread. Does the chick know this? No, but bird programming seems to result in more birds.

The only lesson that pertains to humans in this little scene, for me with my long standing bird fetish, anyway, is that it's amazing how human males have spun this legitimate genetic paranoia in so many different directions.

 

[JMohegan]

I know your question isn't directed at me but if I may give my view on this. I am poly- but only as far as love is concerned. There is no way I could submit to more than one Dom at a time. This is a conversation that my Dom and I have had since we do bring in others to our play on occasion. I have found that I have no problem watching him having sex with others, nor am I jealous of the love he has for his wife but I get rather emotional when he talks of dominating someone else. And under no circumstances am I ever allowed to bottom or submit to anyone else.

I'm not sure why this is. Except that love is an emotion--you either feel it or you don't. Domination and submission is a choice. If he falls in love with someone else fine--but if he makes the choice to put the effort into taking that person has his submissive--that's difficult for me.

I don't know if that makes sense--it just is.

That makes perfect sense to me, and I appreciate your honest response very much.

My impression is that most human beings have a need or strong desire to feel uniquely valuable or important to an intimate partner. That's why I don't see a black & white distinction between those who are poly-capable and those who are not.

As with anything else, there's a spectrum. The closer you get to an exact duplication of roles or positions, the less comfortable most people become.

 

[Netzach]

That makes perfect sense to me, and I appreciate your honest response very much.

My impression is that most human beings have a need or strong desire to feel uniquely valuable or important to an intimate partner. That's why I don't see a black & white distinction between those who are poly-capable and those who are not.

As with anything else, there's a spectrum. The closer you get to an exact duplication of roles or positions, the less comfortable most people become.

Yes. Absolutely nail upon head.
I don't think the relationships I have would work at all without specialization in either direction. Most of the extra-me relationships that my sig others have are same-sex - this isn't because I demand it expressly - I'd LOVE to see my husband get it on with another woman, but it seems to freak his sense of boundary and loyalty out more than it does mine.

I guess I've observed enough stylistic differences among Dominants that it doesn't bother me much if someone else wanted to work my guys. I don't doubt that they'd come back even happier about what I do. If they have serious misgivings in light of what they experience with someone else, then it's a catalyst for a split that's going to happen regardless isn't it?

 

[catalina_francisco]

You can ascribe whatever human emotion you want to animal behavior, but professional researchers will tell you this is totally invalid and how we end up with a lot of pseudoscientific "fact" about a lot of things pertaining to male/female "natures."

What he was doing was making sure his genetic line continued. He's a bird. It's his only job. She had already done hers, but in a way that froze him out, so he needed a re-do. Had he "beaten" her or done anything other than make her a nice meal and do all the normal overtures, he'd be SOL for different reasons.

Birds also do this cool thing wherein the SIBLING will boot the other eggs out with the same body language, I'll bet money, as our osprey "cuck husband" -- in fact I believe this is one species where this happens often. Again, we can assume that that other chick feels smug when he/she does it and go "how mean" but that's OUR hang up being projected.

Really they're aware of the fact that they're competing for resources and what you'd probably have is a nest full of dead chicks rather than one live adult if they're too thinly spread. Does the chick know this? No, but bird programming seems to result in more birds.

The only lesson that pertains to humans in this little scene, for me with my long standing bird fetish, anyway, is that it's amazing how human males have spun this legitimate genetic paranoia in so many different directions.

Maybe your theory is right, but I tend to look at scientific explanations and then keep an open mind given that throughout time they often change the theory completely based on what the trend is for that time, or further information, especially when looking at psychology of the human mind....sheesh, they change most of those theories more frequently than any other area of science I have seen...part of the reason it is a really fascinating a frustrating subject to study academically. As to looking at animal behaviour and connecting it in some way to human, apart from the fact we are part of the animal kingdom ourselves, it happens all the time, even on this board....look at how many discussions happen here and in the scientific world around alpha behaviour for example, and usually when in reference to human alphas, going back to examples of wild animals etc.

It is all fascinating and far from having a final answer, but for me, jealousy still does not come down to insecurity in all cases, or the fight to protect genetic lines. I sometimes think the weakness we have in this last 40-50 years of history is greed and a huge belief we are entitled to have our every desire fed at whatever cost and instantly...it reminds me of the 2-3 yo throwing a tantrum in the supermarket because they can't have every toy or lolly they want. All desires are not necessary to be satisfied, we just seem to have decided in this place in time they do.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Maybe your theory is right, but I tend to look at scientific explanations and then keep an open mind given that throughout time they often change the theory completely based on what the trend is for that time, or further information, especially when looking at psychology of the human mind....sheesh, they change most of those theories more frequently than any other area of science I have seen...part of the reason it is a really fascinating a frustrating subject to study academically. As to looking at animal behaviour and connecting it in some way to human, apart from the fact we are part of the animal kingdom ourselves, it happens all the time, even on this board....look at how many discussions happen here and in the scientific world around alpha behaviour for example, and usually when in reference to human alphas, going back to examples of wild animals etc.

It is all fascinating and far from having a final answer, but for me, jealousy still does not come down to insecurity in all cases, or the fight to protect genetic lines. I sometimes think the weakness we have in this last 40-50 years of history is greed and a huge belief we are entitled to have our every desire fed at whatever cost and instantly...it reminds me of the 2-3 yo throwing a tantrum in the supermarket because they can't have every toy or lolly they want. All desires are not necessary to be satisfied, we just seem to have decided in this place in time they do.

Catalina

Uh, you can also spin jealousy as "me me meeee but mommy I loooove you I WANT" if you like. How is a powerful and consuming desire for ONE other entity more mature or better or less about one's constant stream of want?

Everyone wants satisfaction. I call serious bullshit on anyone who claims to have broken free of all desire because the people who have tend to be fairly quiet about it.

I mean whether I get sexual satisfaction by fucking one person or seven is totally irrelevant - if I get it with one person I'll look no further. If I get it with seven, then I'll look no further. The person who's got it with one but wants to deprive the other person of seven is either suffering from a sense of entitlement to the exclusion of other people, or not as satisfied as they say and wants everyone else to suffer as much.


There's nothing greedy about the female osprey - her assumption was her late mate was dead. She was, again, doing her job.

The reason a lot of science has changed its stance is because of recognition of bias. Did you still use sociology books from the 1920's in your line of work? You know, the ones with the drawings of apelike Irish in them?

What about the bird siblings? Is egg-booting as cool among sibs? As much of a chastisement of the parents for being greedy?

I know a lot of animal behavior gets brought up on this board. And you will usually find a post in it by me, chastising people for not realizing that all this technology and communications complicates things for us considerably, to the point where we can't just look at dogs and go "yep it's just like that for us." Or WORSE by far "wow, our cats are licking one another's asses, our rimming is so...so NATURAL".

We abuse animals enough, it's bad enough without us always making them into our little avatars and puppet selves and thinking for them. Fine if your Aesop, but not strong science.

 

[midwestyankee]

<snip>

I know a lot of animal behavior gets brought up on this board. And you will usually find a post in it by me, chastising people for not realizing that all this technology and communications complicates things for us considerably, to the point where we can't just look at dogs and go "yep it's just like that for us." Or WORSE by far "wow, our cats are licking one another's asses, our rimming is so...so NATURAL".

It's one thing to observe behaviors elsewhere in the animal kingdom that resemble those of humans but it's a false leap of deduction to ascribe to other animals any sort of motivation beyond survival. As Netz said so well, this is generally a matter of projecting onto animals from our own experiences - and this is almost always done from a position of bias.

While it's quite possible that animals may have complex motivations for their patterned behaviors, we simply don't have the tools to identify them. For that matter, we're still futzing around with figuring out complex motivation in human behavior.

 

[Netzach]

How do people who don't mind jealousy as an inevitable human trait handle it among their children or with their own sibs, if they have either or both? I'm curious. Is that just different and off bounds because there's no screwing involved?

I'm an only child without kids, if anyone should be incapable of sharing anything I'm it.

 

[SubKekiLee]

Love for more than one?

I think for me, I am able to identfy with Geoff on the issue on the child issue I have 3 kids myself and I can tell you I dont love any of them any less nor any more they are my blood and my life. As to more than one soul mate. I agree cause I love my husband but he cant give me the things I need in the D/s world. Now with my master he gives me the things I need in that world and I love him for it. He leads me and trains me and pleasures me and being owned by him is a differnt type of love than I have for my kids and or family or spouse. Thats my ideas on it.. Makes sense to me maybe to no one else but for me it works.

 

[callinectes]

I have no trouble sharing friends, family members, nor am I jealous of time my daughters spends with her Dad, her friends, etc.

Romantic relationships are a totally different ballgame for me. Is it because sex is involved? Probably so. I do become emotionally invested when I have sex or more correctly, I have to be invested in order to have sex. I also have to feel I am special in some way to the other person. I would rather be alone and celebate than compromise the boundaries I have set because I know my limits. Maybe I am totally fucked up and selfish because of it. So be it. But at least I recognize that about myself and do not get involved with those that need or desire multiple partners. IMHO it would be far more selfish if I ignored that part of my psyche and got involved in relationships that were inappropriate for me.

 

[Netzach]

I have no trouble sharing friends, family members, nor am I jealous of time my daughters spends with her Dad, her friends, etc.

Romantic relationships are a totally different ballgame for me. Is it because sex is involved? Probably so. I do become emotionally invested when I have sex or more correctly, I have to be invested in order to have sex. I also have to feel I am special in some way to the other person. I would rather be alone and celebate than compromise the boundaries I have set because I know my limits. Maybe I am totally fucked up and selfish because of it. So be it. But at least I recognize that about myself and do not get involved with those that need or desire multiple partners. IMHO it would be far more selfish if I ignored that part of my psyche and got involved in relationships that were inappropriate for me.

I don't think that's fucked up or selfish. I think people get in trouble when they think they can do X and they can't at all but choose to blithely be in denial. I have no judgements about people who are not cut out for multiple relationships as long as they don't get into relationships with me or want to invalidate what I'm doing in some fashion. I watched my aunt get out of a bad marriage and throw herself into entanglement after entanglement being completely and totally unable to do casual sex but thinking she could - it's seriously ugly.

I think we all need to feel special to the people we are intimate with - even in my one one-weekend stand I know that that person still thinks about it from time to time.

For me, the fact that they can't stay away from me or keep going back to it no matter who else comes along gives me that messed-up little taste of validation, I suppose.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have no trouble sharing friends, family members, nor am I jealous of time my daughters spends with her Dad, her friends, etc.

Romantic relationships are a totally different ballgame for me. Is it because sex is involved? Probably so. I do become emotionally invested when I have sex or more correctly, I have to be invested in order to have sex. I also have to feel I am special in some way to the other person. I would rather be alone and celebate than compromise the boundaries I have set because I know my limits. Maybe I am totally fucked up and selfish because of it. So be it. But at least I recognize that about myself and do not get involved with those that need or desire multiple partners. IMHO it would be far more selfish if I ignored that part of my psyche and got involved in relationships that were inappropriate for me.

Inappropriate and painful, I'd say.

I was once (and for a long time) the OTHER-other woman. He called me his "deep, dark secret". I knew about everyone and no one knew about me. It wasn't the same kind of polyamory thing that's been discussed here, though.

I spent a lot of time rationalizing away being third string. I told myself that no matter what happened he would always comes back to ME. And he did. I could do for him things no one else could or would. I filled a spot in his life that no one else did.

yadda yadda yadda

Eventually I started to believe I WAS third string. I've suffered serious self-esteem issues, outrageous jealousy, irrational defensiveness and outright worthlessness.

I've felt unloved and disliked for a long time.

It's been over for some time and I still I'm battling those feelings. They are bad feelings. Bad in that they make me feel awful inside, bad in that they surface at the worst of times and with innocent people, and bad in that they aren't good for my very health.

I'm not whining or feeling sorry for myself or hoping anyone else will feel bad for me. I made the choices I made, no one forced me. I'm responsible for what I did. I made the mistakes. What I did was wrong on many levels.

And I'm paying for it.