Before You Vote For Obama....

[Wolfman1982]

Are, it's several lands (provinces) combined into one a long time ago.
Actually, I meant the 'vote when you're 18'-law, but thanks for the compliment.

Well, historically speaking then Denmark and The Netherlands (we still call that area Holland even though Holland are only two parts of it). Are connected , not by language other than Fries, but Christian the fourth of Denmark. And well the 18 years voting law, is nice too

 

[DarkBee]

Well, historically speaking then Denmark and The Netherlands (we still call that area Holland even though Holland are only two parts of it). Are connected , not by language other than Fries, but Christian the fourth of Denmark. And well the 18 years voting law, is nice too

The only thing I could find on Wikipedia connecting Denmark and The Netherlands through Christian IV are the annihilation of the Danish military fleet by the combined fleets of Sweden and The Netherlands and the founding of the Danish east India company. Other than that I don't know, please explain.

 

[Wolfman1982]

The only thing I could find on Wikipedia connecting Denmark and The Netherlands through Christian IV are the annihilation of the Danish military fleet by the combined fleets of Sweden and The Netherlands and the founding of the Danish east India company. Other than that I don't know, please explain.

Some of the old parts of København (Copenhagen in English) is heavily inspired by Amsterdam because the houses looks like those in Amsterdam near the water. Christianshavn is one of those places where you can see the similarities. Fries is the language of Friesland , and that goes from Jutland to The Netherlands , but yes I know Fries is not commonly spoken in the Danish parts of Friesland. Havn = Harbour in Danish. and Waddenzee connects us too. But anyway, I like the Netherlands

 

[DarkBee]

Some of the old parts of København (Copenhagen in English) is heavily inspired by Amsterdam because the houses looks like those in Amsterdam near the water. Christianshavn is one of those places where you can see the similarities. Fries is the language of Friesland , and that goes from Jutland to The Netherlands , but yes I know Fries is not commonly spoken in the Danish parts of Friesland. Havn = Harbour in Danish. and Waddenzee connects us too. But anyway, I like the Netherlands

Ah, I see. However, 'inspired by' is not the same as 'connected'.

Your remark about Fries is true, and indeed it stretches from Denmark to Friesland, but that's a whole different part of the country than Holland (which actually are the provinces of Noord (North) and Zuid (South) Holland, not something which people from any other province would be compared to or like to be called that way. However, because of the active part Holland played in the Golden age for instance, the rest of the world uses both Holland and Netherlands when referring to our country.
For me it doesn't matter, because I live in (Noord-)Holland, in the city of Amsterdam to be more precise.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Ah, I see. However, 'inspired by' is not the same as 'connected'.

Your remark about Fries is true, and indeed it stretches from Denmark to Friesland, but that's a whole different part of the country than Holland (which actually are the provinces of Noord (North) and Zuid (South) Holland, not something which people from any other province would be compared to or like to be called that way. However, because of the active part Holland played in the Golden age for instance, the rest of the world uses both Holland and Netherlands when referring to our country.
For me it doesn't matter, because I live in (Noord-)Holland, in the city of Amsterdam to be more precise.

There are of course also other small tidbits of information which is not in wikipedia. Since there was Dutch potato farmers up in Denmark. And some other stuff. Anyway The Netherlands rock ! ! ! noord = north, nord = north . Anyway I would love to visit The Netherlands some day in the future, since I do have at least one friend in The Netherlands. But anyway enough off topic chatter in our conversation.

 

[esalenguy]

Less Cynicism, More Idealism

I live in Pennsylvania, where control of the state legislature last year was decided by one seat, and that one seat was decided by 20 votes out of 24,000 total votes cast. In 2000, Bush "won" Florida by less than 1,000 votes. Maybe most elections aren't this close, but you are never sure which ones will be until they count the votes.

Earlier this year, a megamillionaire ran for mayor of Philadelphia. He ran 10 times as much TV advertising as all the other candidates. All of the opinion polls agreed he was the frontrunner. He had more money than all the other candidates combined. He lost. He came in second, but not even a close second. Money is important, but it cannot guarantee election.

I always vote. Every election. I feel more often frustrated by the results than I do feel satisfied. I would love to see some changes made, the most important being term limits. But because our system is not perfect does not discourage me from voting and hoping for the best.

 

[Misty_Morning]

I live in Pennsylvania, where control of the state legislature last year was decided by one seat, and that one seat was decided by 20 votes out of 24,000 total votes cast. In 2000, Bush "won" Florida by less than 1,000 votes. Maybe most elections aren't this close, but you are never sure which ones will be until they count the votes.

Earlier this year, a megamillionaire ran for mayor of Philadelphia. He ran 10 times as much TV advertising as all the other candidates. All of the opinion polls agreed he was the frontrunner. He had more money than all the other candidates combined. He lost. He came in second, but not even a close second. Money is important, but it cannot guarantee election.

I always vote. Every election. I feel more often frustrated by the results than I do feel satisfied. I would love to see some changes made, the most important being term limits. But because our system is not perfect does not discourage me from voting and hoping for the best.

Keep in mind that the news organizations "called" florida for Gore prematurely...they conviently "forgot that that florida panhandle was still voting when they did this...and the panhanhandle is very mostly conservative and republican. When the call was made many folks just left the voting lines thinking that their vote didn't matter.

I don't want to get into an a shouting match...the past is history...let it go.

But look to the past and decide your future.

This may not sit well with some folks...but I am a Republican. I am a lesbian. I choose to make changes from within my party.

I do not believe the Democrats can lead the way to a brighter future...only more taxes on the american society.

As far as the war....don't get me started. Most of you sit there in the comfort of your homes and watch the news and go..."oh, my....what a shame on the US."

The US has made mistakes and will do so in the future...but we are fighting so that others can speak for themselves...collectively...without fear.




I used to be a die hard liberal democrat in my younger days. I understand the frustration and the anger...but as you grow older you will see that there are alot of evil folks using the idealism of youth for their own advantage.


I do not vote for party lines...I vote for the person.


That have been said...I watched Bill (and Hillary) Clinton rise to power...or more like get lucky cuz that dumbo eared mother fucker split the ballot.

But even before that....I went to undergrad school in the MS delta. I watched Bill Clinton (and Hillary)...as he was gov of AR.

This was in the early 80's....most of you were net yet born.


SOOOOo...while you hoot and holler bout needing to bring a change...look back...study...



As for Obama....he's a poster boy for the Dems. He will not win...and it's not cuz of his skin.



Somewhere sitting out there is a man or woman who is righteous and caring...the person that SHOULD be the president....


look a little bit deeper than the 6 oclock news......

 

[Etoile]

This may not sit well with some folks...but I am a Republican. I am a lesbian. I choose to make changes from within my party.

You have every right to join the party you feel closest to, your orientation shouldn't decide that. However, most Republicans stand for policies that I absolutely cannot stomach - taking away a woman's right to choose, banning stem cell research, and "one man one woman" legislation.

As far as the war....don't get me started. Most of you sit there in the comfort of your homes and watch the news and go..."oh, my....what a shame on the US."

What else should they do? It's easy for me to go to anti-war rallies, I live in DC, and I do go to them. But what is Joe Blow down in Idaho supposed to do? I can think of only two things: write, and vote.

The US has made mistakes and will do so in the future...but we are fighting so that others can speak for themselves...collectively...without fear.

What business do we have fighting for them? Let them figure it out themselves. Why does the US have to be a 500-pound gorilla throwing its weight all over the world?

I used to be a die hard liberal democrat in my younger days. I understand the frustration and the anger...but as you grow older you will see that there are alot of evil folks using the idealism of youth for their own advantage.

(snip)

This was in the early 80's....most of you were net yet born.


SOOOOo...while you hoot and holler bout needing to bring a change...look back...study...

Misty, I take offense to what you're saying here. For one thing, what makes you think most of us were not yet born? I admit that I am probably one of the younger ones posting in this thread; I was born in 1981. I would caution you not to make assumptions about the ages of other posters.

But furthermore, this is not a "once you grow up you'll see the light" issue. This is an issue of opinion. I am surprised that you would suggest that we all become conservatives in our old age. Some of us quite simply have different values than you do. It's not "the idealism of youth," it's how we feel. In fact, if I lose my hopes for a better world as I grow older, I will probably just off myself and put myself out of my misery.

I don't ever like being told "you're too young to understand" or "you're too young to see the truth," but I really don't like being told "you'll get jaded and cynical when you're older." Like I said, if that ever happens, I'm checking out while I'm still a dreamer.

As for looking back and studying - wow, that was just patronizing. When I look back, I see lots of hooting and hollering for change. In fact, as I write this, I'm taking a break from studying for tomorrow's American History exam. We've been hooting and hollering for over 250 years now. Perhaps that is what makes a true American.

 

[Misty_Morning]

You have every right to join the party you feel closest to, your orientation shouldn't decide that. However, most Republicans stand for policies that I absolutely cannot stomach - taking away a woman's right to choose, banning stem cell research, and "one man one woman" legislation.


What else should they do? It's easy for me to go to anti-war rallies, I live in DC, and I do go to them. But what is Joe Blow down in Idaho supposed to do? I can think of only two things: write, and vote.


What business do we have fighting for them? Let them figure it out themselves. Why does the US have to be a 500-pound gorilla throwing its weight all over the world?


Misty, I take offense to what you're saying here. For one thing, what makes you think most of us were not yet born? I admit that I am probably one of the younger ones posting in this thread; I was born in 1981. I would caution you not to make assumptions about the ages of other posters.

But furthermore, this is not a "once you grow up you'll see the light" issue. This is an issue of opinion. I am surprised that you would suggest that we all become conservatives in our old age. Some of us quite simply have different values than you do. It's not "the idealism of youth," it's how we feel. In fact, if I lose my hopes for a better world as I grow older, I will probably just off myself and put myself out of my misery.

I don't ever like being told "you're too young to understand" or "you're too young to see the truth," but I really don't like being told "you'll get jaded and cynical when you're older." Like I said, if that ever happens, I'm checking out while I'm still a dreamer.

As for looking back and studying - wow, that was just patronizing. When I look back, I see lots of hooting and hollering for change. In fact, as I write this, I'm taking a break from studying for tomorrow's American History exam. We've been hooting and hollering for over 250 years now. Perhaps that is what makes a true American.

Etoile, I am not trying to fan the flames.


I am not trying to create turmoil, and I am MOST ceratianly not trying to insult you or anyone elses political or social beliefs.

If I have insulted you or anyone else I truly apologize.

I am merely pointing out the fact that youthful folks tend to be VERY vocal and rebellious of the party in position. Hell, I am not happy with the current administration, age has nothing to do with it...but just cuz I don't like "W", I am not gonna tuck tail and run....

And YES...this party makes me very agry with some its stances...but I have been on the other side of the fence....and I do not want to go back there.


God, looking back I so wanted to change the world and couldn't figure out WTF people just couldn't see the light of day.


As for my comments about watching the "clintons" in the 80's...I'm gonna say that MOST folks didn't get to see what I saw....every day. Age has nothing to do with that. It was the time and place.

Having grown up with the Vietnam conflict on the nightly news, I surely thought that "it" would never happen again.

But "it" is happening again...and unfortunately it started for the same reasons....Americas Economical benifit...it didn't have anything to do with WMD's...

BUt....the majority of folks in Iraq are NOT fanatics....

and we are there...would you rather walk away cuz a very violent minority gathers the headlines?

What about the vast majority that want to live in freedom?







Let me ask you Etoile....do you remember the war in tha balkins? Do you remember hearing the telecasts and the nightly news showing the death and destruction? And America just sat there.

Do remember the news casts of the genocide that was occurring in Africa? And America just sat there.


BUT holyfuckingcow....Bill Clinton siezed upon the oppotunity of Somalia and jumped right on in there.....with the news reporters on the beach as the marines landed.

It was a show..and we suffered as did the Somalians did and still do.


The problem with the US being a 500lb gorilla is that we tend to through our weight around when flashbulbs are going off...not when those who are needing us cry and scream for our help.



Again dalin, I am NOT be patronizing when I say this.....lets get together in 20 years and see how our opinions have changed.




But I do have this to say...when you say "what business is it of ours.....?let them fight it out...." If you hear a child being beaten in the next apartment....do you say the same?

 

[Etoile]

If I have insulted you or anyone else I truly apologize.

Thank you, that's a great thing to hear. I'm glad we can have a good discussion.

I am merely pointing out the fact that youthful folks tend to be VERY vocal and rebellious of the party in position.

In my case, I'm against the current administration because I think they are a bunch of dingbats. It's not an anti-Republican thing. If Giuliani got elected, I could be okay with that...I think he's a lot more acceptable than most of the others in his party. (Mitt Romney, yikes!)

As for my comments about watching the "clintons" in the 80's...I'm gonna say that MOST folks didn't get to see what I saw....every day. Age has nothing to do with that. It was the time and place.

Makes total sense now. It wasn't so much that it was in the early 1980s, as you said earlier, but rather it was the south in the early 1980s, which you also mentioned in a different party.

(skipping some stuff that's more about the war than about American politics)

What about the vast majority that want to live in freedom?

Ah...but there is a difference between living in freedom and living in peace. I would not say that Saddam's regime was peaceful, as he kept everyone in constant fear, so the country has been tense for a LONG time. But I don't think we necessarily need to impose our brand of freedom on everybody. I think Iraqis should make their own decisions as long as they can leave in peace, it's up to them what kind of life they have.

I do remember the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo. And there is still genocide in Africa that we're not really doing much about.

But I do have this to say...when you say "what business is it of ours.....?let them fight it out...." If you hear a child being beaten in the next apartment....do you say the same?

Some people would say yes, it is not their business to investigate the neighbors. I think they are apples and oranges though. The child next door is a member of our own culture. We know what the law says about child abuse, and we know what will happen if we report it. But a lot of the time, when we are invading other countries, our interests come first. "Oh here! Have some democracy! No wait, OUR democracy! We don't like YOUR way of democracy." I just think the US has a tendency to believe "one size fits all" when really we should slow down and consider the sovereign right of countries to resolve their own problems. I'm not sure this part makes sense.

We've kind of gotten off the track of Obama and stuff...and way off the track of gay stuff...sorry about that folks.

 

[Misty_Morning]

We've kind of gotten off the track of Obama and stuff...and way off the track of gay stuff...sorry about that folks.

Me too.



Ok....Obama? He'll never win just cuz who is he really?


And the shit bout him having the fag hater on board? Just goes to show that he'll do anything to get votes. AKA...he has no spine.

 

[Wolfman1982]

a democratic lesbian vs. a republican *WTF???" lesbian. DING and Saturday is alright for fighting.

Seriously in USA being gay and vote for the republican is like voting the Nazis in under WW2 and being a Jew.
But well maybe they gods fight in vain against stupidity, but what the fuck do I know about it ?

If it was in Denmark, and you are gay. Then doobdydoo , then it is your own stupid fault. That you vote for the rightwinged side of the government. And I know a lesbian who does that in Denmark, but to me I don´t always get her. But she is a wonderful woman whether she is a lesbian or not. But in some ways she is blind when it comes to her own sexuality. I just don´t fucking get it, in a system where there are only two parties, and only registered voters count. And you are gay, and you vote for the "enemy" then I must say, and I believe I am going offend some one or many. Then it is not only your own stupid fault, but also that you are probably very fucked up in my mind.

So whether some wise words has been said from Misty_Morning: Then I stand by my statement. A week from now there I will go down. And do my duty and vote for the Social Democratic party. And you can still be rightturned when you are voting on the democrats. But voting for the republicans, and being gay at the same time. Is to me very fucked up.

 

[emap]

Wolfman, your saying the republicans are against gays, they aren't, they are simply right now backing the republican in the white house. If the doofus galore in there now came out and said to the nation I was wrong homosexuals should have the same rights and be able to marry like the straight americans. The republican congress members would sit up and start barking along with him because they are republicans.

Seriously, you can say the two parties are not moving and shaking and deciding the way of the political scene, but you would of course be wrong. Look at congress, look at congress over the last 15+ years especially. One party member of congress says one thing, no matter how good or bad for the country it is, the majority of people in the same party will back this person, the other party will speak out against it. Generally the dissidents in the party are up for re-election that year.

The really funny part though, is no matter who said it first, if it is good for companies it will be passed and written into law. If it is obviously good for the country and the Joe Blows can't send in enough backing letters it will not pass. If they do send in enough backing letters it will pass, assuming the companies are not dead set against it.

Like it or not, this country is all about the peice of green paper. If you have enough companies liking you you will get elected and you will get the things they like done. It was not always this bad, at one time it wasn't really about the party, it was more the person trying to be elected and how many people liked what he said he would do. For the most part they even did what they said, then companies started taking an interest in politics.

Before companies it was vote for the right man, after companies it is vote for the lesser of two evils. Personally, I say fuck that, if there is no right man or woman I am not going to vote because there is no point, there is no such thing as lesser of two evils, evil is evil is evil.

 

[Wolfman1982]

emap: USA is probably the biggest homophobic democracy I know, and democracy is not the usual word I use.
And yes I do see the flaws of my own country, so it is no xenophobic hatred against USA. It is probably more an anger, and concern than the opposite, but still I don´t see the genius of being gay. And then vote republican, in some ways it doesn´t make any sense. But I am not retracting my first statement, just redefining the words. So they aren´t so offensive. USA is a democracy that violates so many human rights every day, and that includes persecution of homosexuals. Which is forbidden most places in the western hemisphere. But I am not talking about hate crime here. I am talking about more subtle stuff. But still, if you are straight, then heaven is your oyster. but NOT if you are gay in USA. That is something I can´t comprehend . And like in the cartoons you see a person hitting his head against a wall. The same feeling is in me. But well, it is your show on the highway to hell.

 

[figure_it_out]

I used to live in NYC. I wouldn't vote for Hillary because of her record as a New York Senator. She voted against legislation that would help New York, and then took credit when it passed anyway. Also she was for the war in Iraq.

I'm not sure what I think about Obama, I need to read more about him.

I liked Giuliani as mayor of NYC, but I don't think he would be a good president.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

My family is pretty much dyed in the wool Republican. That being said..here goes.

1976 birth year - Bicentennial baby. So I've seen a few things and watched when Clinton ran for the Oval Office when I was in high school.

Now, remember that Texas tends to keep an eye on state of affairs of their next door neighbors (Arkansas, Lousianan, etc).

When the Clintons were in power in Arkansas, Hillary brought a lot of changes to the educational system in that state. After those changes were brought in, Arkansas rated like 48 out of 50 states as far as ranking is concerned for how well students are doing. That's not a high ranking...rather embarassing, don't you think?

When I was in college, my roomie and I drove into Arkansas. They put a sign up about Bill. Interestingly enough..someone had defaced it...MULTIPLE TIMES. Looked like they were glad to be rid of them.

Now..next tidbit about Ms Hillary. She caused an uproar in Africa because she told the mothers NOT to assign genders to their children until they reach a certain age. No baby dolls for girls, no trucks for boys. They all had to be unisex until the child decided what gender it needed to be.

Ok...I can PARTIALLY understand that but shouldn't the issue be recognizing and treating gender dysphoria when the person is old enough to realize instead of forcing the choice on someone?

The democrats haven't exactly been a good cup of tea for the US either. We can't point and say - this is all Republicans fault. The democrats have baulked as far as doing something about employment here in the US, taxes, and the damn cost of gasoline.

We want changes..we have to make it happen and it won't be through whoever is sitting in the White House. It's gonna happen in the State legislatures and the US Congress and Senate. EMAIL YOUR REPS, write them...create awareness by peaceful gatherings to state what you believe should be done.

Last thing before I get off of my soap box....the whole voting box is a huge laugh anyway. The Electoral College is the biggie that needs to be disposed of.

 

[zuvodami]

BUT holyfuckingcow....Bill Clinton siezed upon the oppotunity of Somalia and jumped right on in there.....with the news reporters on the beach as the marines landed.

I have no problems with people belonging to either side of the political spectrum -- but your facts are wrong here. Bill Clinton inherited the Somalia situation from George H.W. Bush, who invaded shortly before his term expired. Bill Clinton was left with figuring out what to do with the mess that had been handed to him by his predecessor.

 

[Wolfman1982]

The Ringhtwing Sons of bitches won the Danish election, so I am royally assfucked for another period.

The God damn bush ass kissing motherfucker of a Danish prime minister is still a prime minister for another period. Anders Fogh Rasmussen you are the biggest disgrace to the Rasmussen name, and the whole shit around you, Fuck you AFR. And I hope your government will fall , since I think we have had enough scandals with your government, you motherfucking dumn ass smiling cunt !

When people striked because of your actions, then you said they were only socialists, and social workers. But you are forgetting who you are married to, your wife is a social worker , you god damn motherfucking male schuvinist. I hope something will make your rightwinged Christian fuckedup government will fall. And the others will prevail in your absense !

Damn it, now I am screwed four more years with this fucker of a dipshit asshole of a prime minister and his dumb ass shit government.

 

[DarkBee]

The Rightwing Sons of bitches won the Danish election, so I am royally assfucked for another period.

The God damn Bush ass kissing motherfucker of a Danish prime minister is still a prime minister for another period. Anders Fogh Rasmussen you are the biggest disgrace to the Rasmussen name, and the whole shit around you, Fuck you AFR. And I hope your government will fall, since I think we have had enough scandals with your government, you motherfucking dumb ass smiling cunt!

When people striked because of your actions, then you said they were only socialists, and social workers. But you are forgetting who you are married to: your wife is a social worker, you god damn motherfucking male chauvinist. I hope something will make your rightwinged Christian fuckedup government will fall. And the others will prevail in your absense !

Damn it, now I am screwed four more years with this fucker of a dipshit asshole of a prime minister and his dumb ass shit government.

Before you blow your brains out in rage, why don't you emigrate to, say, The Netherlands

 

[Wolfman1982]

DarkBee: you see, I am a Dane, and I am proud of being a Dane. And I still hope that Naser Khader , the leader of a new party will point the finger to Helle Thorning Schmidt instead of AFR.
And second of all, how can I imigrate when I can´t afford it anyway ?

 

[DarkBee]

DarkBee: you see, I am a Dane, and I am proud of being a Dane. And I still hope that Naser Khader , the leader of a new party will point the finger to Helle Thorning Schmidt instead of AFR.
And second of all, how can I imigrate when I can´t afford it anyway ?

Because I was just joking. So, have a (insert name of Danish liquor here), take a deep breath and relax; it's not your fault, there are just a lot of ignorant people out there.

 

[Wolfman1982]

no worries mate

Because I was just joking. So, take a (insert name of Danish liquor here), take a deep breath and relax; it's not your fault, there are just a lot of ignorant people out there.

I am not into Danish liquor , since I don´t drink øl (ale is the direct translation of the word. But it is more commonly known as beer). I don´t drink any kind of our snaps (take a pick since we have many of that kind). But I do have a bottle (2 litres) of vodka in my fridge, and if I had a pint or two of Magners Cider, then I would be drinking it right now. But I feel vodka is too strong to drink right now. And I don´t have any Magners Cider. But damn, those Irish Ciders taste great I deeply hope Naser Khader chooses Helle Thorning Schmidt over AFR. Since ignorance here, is not a bliss. but it wasn´t an eartquake victory to AFR anyway, but I don´t like the smell of it anyway.

 

[snickers16]

Honestly, I don't think things can get better for a while. It's going to take a MASSIVE operation to get us out of Iraq and tone things down in Afghanistan. It isn't like the new president can say "that's it, yank them out now." I wouldn't be surprised if we're still not in Iraq for another few years.

As far as H. Clinton is concerned, the woman scared me when her husband was in office. Something isn't right about her.

If things are going to change - it isn't so much the presidential elections we need to watch, although those are important. If a difference is to be made, it happens in the Senate and House. Most people tend to overlook that.

to qoute Iggy & The Stooges Not Right
She's not right oh no no no, not right not right oh no no no

 

[snickers16]

Don't vote pink slip the whole lot

They are all,evil creeps its time to take our nation back Piss on dc
Tired of them all.kick them all the freakin hell out of the US

 

[alaskabibear]

Bad Attitude

They are all,evil creeps its time to take our nation back Piss on dc
Tired of them all.kick them all the freakin hell out of the US

And I would like to just remind everyone that earlier in this conversation I was accused of having someone "pee in my Wheaties" because of MY bad attitude!

Now this is what I call an attitude (bad snickers! bad!) Me? I'm just a sweet puppy trying to run with the big dogs.