Bottoming

[nh23]

Oh, no, honey. You're still just not enlightened enough yet to walk down the Noble Path.

Well shit..what do I have to do to get to that point?

 

[BiBunny]

Well shit..what do I have to do to get to that point?

Find "Teh Rite Man," duh.

 

[JMohegan]

BiBunny -

I'm short on time at the moment, so my contribution here will just be cut and paste from this post , written last year. My opinion has not changed since then.

In response to a comment by Netzach, in which she wrote: "I get very irate at the 'less vested' paintbrush I see the phrase 'top/bottom' being painted with in the more hetero BDSM community," I responded as follows:


In my part of the world, there are women who get good and freakin' tired of hearing things like: "She's not a sub, she's just a bottom."

And their response is to say: "I am not just a bottom. I am a bottom."

They do not consider themselves to be surrendering power in the D/s sense, and this *to them* is a very important part of their personal identity.

The idea is not that they are bent over directing the Top's every move. The point is that these women negotiate scenes on a session by session basis, whether they are married, dating, or just visiting a local club and playing with an unaffiliated Top.

These bottoms, and their Tops, in no way consider themselves to be "less vested" than subs and Doms. But they do insist on an independent identity, and one that is not only fetish based. Any pissing off of anybody in any other part of the galaxy is completely unintentional. And they sure as hell aren't interested in pissing off or diminishing respect for Tops.

It is true that there are self-satisfied D/s aficionados who say things like, "He's just a Top" or "She's just a bottom", and the clear implication is that Dom and sub are superior in some way. But I have no respect for that bullshit and frankly don't know many people who do.

Taken as a group, the Tops in my part of the world are far more skilled and dedicated to the art of pain play than those who identify as Doms. And the same is true for the bottoms, on the other side of the coin.

The Tops and bottoms are also, generally speaking, far more likely to be friendly, non-judgmental, honest, and straight-forward than Doms and subs, and far less likely to be obnoxious, hypocritical, self-satisfied, over-bearing, or cheating on their wives.

On the basis of skill and character, and speaking in general terms solely about the individuals whom I have met in the physical world, I would say that I have far more respect for Tops and bottoms as a group than I do for Doms and subs.

Your experiences, your definitions may vary.

 

[nh23]

Find "Teh Rite Man," duh.

*snorts*
Well I have two already. And I have you and bi_kitty. Maybe a third man to fill the "hole" I have left in my life?
I know it was such a cheezy joke..but I had to do it

 

[BiBunny]

BiBunny -

I'm short on time at the moment, so my contribution here will just be cut and paste from this post , written last year. My opinion has not changed since then.

In response to a comment by Netzach, in which she wrote: "I get very irate at the 'less vested' paintbrush I see the phrase 'top/bottom' being painted with in the more hetero BDSM community," I responded as follows:


In my part of the world, there are women who get good and freakin' tired of hearing things like: "She's not a sub, she's just a bottom."

And their response is to say: "I am not just a bottom. I am a bottom."

They do not consider themselves to be surrendering power in the D/s sense, and this *to them* is a very important part of their personal identity.

The idea is not that they are bent over directing the Top's every move. The point is that these women negotiate scenes on a session by session basis, whether they are married, dating, or just visiting a local club and playing with an unaffiliated Top.

These bottoms, and their Tops, in no way consider themselves to be "less vested" than subs and Doms. But they do insist on an independent identity, and one that is not only fetish based. Any pissing off of anybody in any other part of the galaxy is completely unintentional. And they sure as hell aren't interested in pissing off or diminishing respect for Tops.

It is true that there are self-satisfied D/s aficionados who say things like, "He's just a Top" or "She's just a bottom", and the clear implication is that Dom and sub are superior in some way. But I have no respect for that bullshit and frankly don't know many people who do.

Taken as a group, the Tops in my part of the world are far more skilled and dedicated to the art of pain play than those who identify as Doms. And the same is true for the bottoms, on the other side of the coin.

The Tops and bottoms are also, generally speaking, far more likely to be friendly, non-judgmental, honest, and straight-forward than Doms and subs, and far less likely to be obnoxious, hypocritical, self-satisfied, over-bearing, or cheating on their wives.

On the basis of skill and character, and speaking in general terms solely about the individuals whom I have met in the physical world, I would say that I have far more respect for Tops and bottoms as a group than I do for Doms and subs.

Your experiences, your definitions may vary.

Thanks for your words, JM. I actually remember reading this post of yours back when you originally posted it. I really like what you had to say, and I've always respected your opinion.

 

[BiBunny]

*snorts*
Well I have two already. And I have you and bi_kitty. Maybe a third man to fill the "hole" I have left in my life?
I know it was such a cheezy joke..but I had to do it

*Snort* Bad nh. Bad!

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I'm sorry. I just don't believe that "finding the right man" is going to make me totally change how I view things. It's ok for you to have a "romantic" view of life, and it's ok for me to have a "realistic" view. I just think it's kind of offensive for you to tell me that all I need is this mythical person to change my whole life and the way I look at things. I am in control of my life and my happiness, not some nameless, faceless uber-Dom. I don't need a man to complete me or to save me from myself. Like I said in the other thread, if I'm enjoying myself as a Toppy-leaning switch who'll bottom occasionally to friends who understand that I don't submit, I don't see what's wrong with that or why you think I need something more.

I didnt mean to sound offensive I am sorry, I just said what I thought it might help you understand my point of a view. I need love yes. Its something I dunno be without it, but I know there are people who are fukin okay all alone. I dunno be like that, I need a daily dose of love.

I am in a control of my life as well, if I wasn't I would be prolly already death after my ex left me like for something that feels like million time now. We see things way different IMO. I need love-you don't. I need him to feel complete as a person-you are okay on your own. And I could go on and on with this. You are strong independent woman while I am the one who needs someone to protect me, love me and care for me, I am just like that.

The reason why I think you need something more is that you sound hurt, thats why.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

And my post disproves that also. I do have whom I consider the right Dom, and I also have who I consider the right husband, So I have two Mr. Right's. I still see things the same way you do. Which puts a huge flaw in the theory.

erm, if you really think you have two Mr.Right's shouldn't you sound a bit more grateful by now?? I wouldn't complain at all if I had at least one in real life LOL.

 

[nh23]

erm, if you really think you have two Mr.Right's shouldn't you sound a bit more grateful by now?? I wouldn't complain at all if I had at least one in real life LOL.

I'm not complaining. Never was. I do have them both in real life. I'm very blessed. I'm a happy person. Which was my god damn point. Just because I don't see everything as romantic doesn't mean I'm a cold and bitter person. I see myself as rational. I love them both very much, it still doesn't mean everything is always some romantic scene out of a storybook. The point has obviously been lost..

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not complaining. Never was. I'm very blessed. I'm a happy person. Which was my god damn point. Just because I don't see everything as romantic doesn't mean I'm a cold and bitter person. I see myself as rational. I love them both very much, it still doesn't mean everything is always some romantic scene out of a storybook. The point has obviously been lost..

Unfortunately, honey, I think the point was lost long before now.

Thread: about bottoming and/or submitting

Thread: not about whether or not Bunny needs love

*headdesk*

 

[nh23]

Unfortunately, honey, I think the point was lost long before now.

Thread: about bottoming and/or submitting

Thread: not about whether or not Bunny needs love

*headdesk*

Well fuck Bunny why didn't you just tell me you needed love. I'll tell you what I'll be in bama by tomorrow to fuck you, after that I promise you'll be happy, whole, and seeing rainbows..Isn't that how it works?

 

[BiBunny]

Well fuck Bunny why didn't you just tell me you needed love. I'll tell you what I'll be in bama by tomorrow to fuck you, after that I promise you'll be happy, whole, and seeing rainbows..Isn't that how it works?

Wasn't it TLC who said, "You must be crazy, what you going to do with a bitch like me?"

 

[nh23]

Wasn't it TLC who said, "You must be crazy, what you going to do with a bitch like me?"

Now come on..what am I gonna do.. It's because I'm not a man isn't it? *pouts* If I was a man I could be your Mr. Right.. I could fix you right up. We should give it a shot..maybe we are each other's Mrs. Right..maybe if we get together we wouldn't be so cold and bitter? *I have an idea*

 

[BiBunny]

Now come on..what am I gonna do.. It's because I'm not a man isn't it? *pouts* If I was a man I could be your Mr. Right.. I could fix you right up. We should give it a shot..maybe we are each other's Mrs. Right..maybe if we get together we wouldn't be so cold and bitter? *I have an idea*

I have my strap-on here. Does that make me qualify as a man?

 

[nh23]

I have my strap-on here. Does that make me qualify as a man?

I'm not sure..but it sure as hell gives me more incentive to drive to bama..lmao!

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not sure..but it sure as hell gives me more incentive to drive to bama..lmao!

Hooray! Nh is coming to visit AND I've successfully derailed my own thread in less than three pages!

Seriously, though...I'll try to be good now, so this doesn't get moved to the Cafe. I think it does have merit as a serious discussion, particularly since I find myself in both Top and bottom mode, depending on the situation.

 

[subkitty72]

Which expresses what I was saying...I am not subbier than thou because my reality does not reflect yours and what you see as the only possibility, and I dare to say so. IYE romance is not always present so you don't believe it is reality for anyone...IME no matter what is happening, even when we are working through a difficult moment, glaring at each other, romance is always there, and we are both agreed always that no matter the moment or the day or the mood, there is nowhere else or anyone else we would ever rather be with than with each other. It is sickeningly sweet to some, but damn it is a nice feeling to find another who shares that reality after all these decades of feeling like you that it is impossible to have as a reality...it is a security and reality I never thought possible.

Catalina

i know, i know. a day late and a dollar short.

Just wanted to say, Catalina, that your post really touched me.

i can imagine no better fate for myself than the one you describe above, the reality that you and your PYL have. it heartens me, absolutely gives me hope, that a future and a reality like that can be achieved.

Not perfect, but warm, secure and real.

Thank you.

 

[subkitty72]

Sorry, Bunny... i sort of hijacked your thread.

 

[BiBunny]

Sorry, Bunny... i sort of hijacked your thread.

It's ok, kitty. You didn't hijack it nearly as badly as I did myself.

 

[EmpressFi]

after.. I forget who it was who actually made the post.. who could keep track after all the posts that were filled with frustration and anger dripping in sarcasm ... the person who explained that bottoming was just the body and submission was the heart, the soul.. I wanted to thank them for explaining the difference that trying to be expressed. I can see that .. just like Nh allowed Sir Winston do that cupping.. (looked awesome, btw).. that was just letting him.. play.. for lack of a better word...

But here's a question.. it just popped into my head.. if you're a submissive..with a Dom.. and you're in a "scene".. or if you're just being <insert your form of torture here> (ie spanked, whipped, caned, etc) just for fun.. is that still bottoming.. or is it still submission because you're a submissive to that Dom/me? (forgive me if that's not clear.. I'm really having difficulties reigning in my thoughts today)

 

[nh23]

after.. I forget who it was who actually made the post.. who could keep track after all the posts that were filled with frustration and anger dripping in sarcasm ... the person who explained that bottoming was just the body and submission was the heart, the soul.. I wanted to thank them for explaining the difference that trying to be expressed. I can see that .. just like Nh allowed Sir Winston do that cupping.. (looked awesome, btw).. that was just letting him.. play.. for lack of a better word...

But here's a question.. it just popped into my head.. if you're a submissive..with a Dom.. and you're in a "scene".. or if you're just being <insert your form of torture here> (ie spanked, whipped, caned, etc) just for fun.. is that still bottoming.. or is it still submission because you're a submissive to that Dom/me? (forgive me if that's not clear.. I'm really having difficulties reigning in my thoughts today)

I'm not sure if it was my post you were talking about. But, that's the way I see bottoming it's the body. Submission is my body, mind, heart etc..

Now to your question I'm not sure I'm reading it right. Being submissive, during a scene where I'm being spanked etc.. by MY Dom? Or by another Dom? If it's a scene with MY Dom even if it's just playing IMO I'm still submitting. I'm his submissive all the time. Does that make sense?

As far as bottoming goes. Well S&M and D/s, M/s etc..are not the same thing. In S&M you have a top and a bottom. In generic terms, (not taking into account people who combine D/s & S/m like the majority of us do.) The bottom is not submitting to anyone. It's a mutual exchange of pain play. the bottom is receiving pain for her pleasure. The top is giving pain for his pleasure. Did any of that help at all?

 

[EmpressFi]

I'll use me as an example..and this is really more just my brain.. when ADD takes over ..goes from point a to z without stopping.. poor Malin and Master..they put up with so much..

but lets say.. man I cant even think of how I want to say it..but lets say Master is paddling me but it's not really a time when I'm all in that sub head.. more playful.. I guess.. but it's still him paddling/spanking/caning etc.. me.. but as a dominant person..you know.. ugh.. I'm mucking up what I'm trying to say.. I'll try again in a bit..unless someone else can figure me out..

I guess what I'm trying to say.. is if it's submission when I'm pouring my little submissive soul into the experience.. is it bottoming when we're just doing it to spice up sex or just to have fun.. building off the I am a submissive..but the act is to submit.. if the act is just to be his toy to use.. is that still me being submissive.. or at that time..when it's not really a "scene" but just fun.. am I bottoming..

*prays she didnt just muddy things up more*

 

[EmpressFi]

I'm not sure if it was my post you were talking about. But, that's the way I see bottoming it's the body. Submission is my body, mind, heart etc..

Now to your question I'm not sure I'm reading it right. Being submissive, during a scene where I'm being spanked etc.. by MY Dom? Or by another Dom?

I guess you kinda answered my question.. if submission is body mind and heart.. then I guess even when we're (he and I) are just playing (playing = bein freaky in the bedroom) .. then that's still submission.. because body is included.. I dunno..

drat.. I've confused myself...

 

[nh23]

I'll use me as an example..and this is really more just my brain.. when ADD takes over ..goes from point a to z without stopping.. poor Malin and Master..they put up with so much..

but lets say.. man I cant even think of how I want to say it..but lets say Master is paddling me but it's not really a time when I'm all in that sub head.. more playful.. I guess.. but it's still him paddling/spanking/caning etc.. me.. but as a dominant person..you know.. ugh.. I'm mucking up what I'm trying to say.. I'll try again in a bit..unless someone else can figure me out..

I guess what I'm trying to say.. is if it's submission when I'm pouring my little submissive soul into the experience.. is it bottoming when we're just doing it to spice up sex or just to have fun.. building off the I am a submissive..but the act is to submit.. if the act is just to be his toy to use.. is that still me being submissive.. or at that time..when it's not really a "scene" but just fun.. am I bottoming..

*prays she didnt just muddy things up more*

I added more to my post see if that helps at all.

 

[EmpressFi]

LOLOL

hmm now I'm thinking that if all we're doing is playing for the sense of the fact that it makes him hot to spank me..and it makes me wet getting spanked..then it's more of a Top/bottom thing..