Bottoming

[Netzach]

Back on topic, I have a question. Would you all consider it bottoming if your PYL ordered you to be with someone else? (whether that person considered themselves to be a Top, Dom or vanilla or whatever?) And by "being with" I mean some sort of pain play with or without sex?

My own view on this is that I was not "bottoming". I was still submitting to my Dom, the other person just being a different instrutment in his arsenal like a whip, cane or belt. Though I don't want to really objectify the person--I enjoyed talking to them and getting to know them as a person over the course of the evening also.

I would say you're both bottoming to that person, you're *letting them do something physically to you* AND you are submitting to your Dominant. You aren't submitting to the person doing the stuff to you. Bottoming to them doesn't mean anything other than you're letting them spank poke fuck or tease you, it doesn't imply anything about the nature of that rel. You could be married to them. You could never know their real first name or even a fake one.

 

[nh23]

I said similar words in an e-mail recently. Very similar. I'm not gonna say that online play is tripe, but, uh, hey, it's not the same as face-to-face.

I have blood and tears on my conscience. She has scars. There's no off-button in our play. To be frank, it's another reason why I identify as a Top. You can do D/s on-line. Tough to Top online though.

That said, people that do LDR's but get together when they can have my respect. It would drive me crazy insane homicidal to only be able to lay hands on my gal every 3/6/whatever months like some folks here. But pure LDR, never seen em, never will see em? Doesn't quite carry the same weight in my personal book.

*nods* It is insanely hard. I only get to see D a couple times a month. I talk to him every day, he is a huge part of my life, but to only be able to touch him a few times a month..*sighs* It's really hard. Right now though it's the only way. I have to accept that.

 

[Homburg]

I could not agree with you more. When I was online only I at least had the fucking decency not to compare my experience to people living it. You can invent whatever kind of "come what may" loyalty you want in your head to anyone - when you're being tested by that person in real life....

I keep getting told "Your wife is so lucky" or variants thereof. My response is always to laugh and say "You only say that because you don't live with me".

And that line came from my wife

 

[ecstaticsub]

Thanks for the responses to my question. I guess I didn't (don't) see it as bottoming because mentally I keep focused on the reason I am there is because I have been ordered to do so. I am there to make my Dom proud. Though to be honest I love it immensly when I am "loaned" out in that way. But the emotions I feel would be totally different if I was bottoming with permission to someone I found, as opposed to being with someone he ordered me to be with. (or I would think, since I never have "bottomed" to someone he didn't know)

 

[Stegral]

*nods* It is insanely hard. I only get to see D a couple times a month. I talk to him every day, he is a huge part of my life, but to only be able to touch him a few times a month..*sighs* It's really hard. Right now though it's the only way. I have to accept that.

I hear you..
My Top goes to sea (he is military) so I don't talk to him for months & when he IS back on land his G/F gets priority so sometimes I don't get play for months...
I just have major trust issues with new people & a fucked kind of loyality to him...
Kinda slims my chances of finding a Dom when I really don't look very hard, but rather wait like a puppy till he comes back & takes me to play...

 

[EmpressFi]

[/B]

*nods* It is insanely hard. I only get to see D a couple times a month. I talk to him every day, he is a huge part of my life, but to only be able to touch him a few times a month..*sighs* It's really hard. Right now though it's the only way. I have to accept that.

I feel you're pain but I'm jealous. I get to see Master every 2-3 months.. as it is right now, I'm not sure when the next visit will be. I talk to him all day every day which helps..but the non-touching part gets so difficult that sometimes I cant help but just sob.. which makes it harder for him.. it's been even harder for me to resolve that than it was the jealousy

 

[nh23]

I feel you're pain but I'm jealous. I get to see Master every 2-3 months.. as it is right now, I'm not sure when the next visit will be. I talk to him all day every day which helps..but the non-touching part gets so difficult that sometimes I cant help but just sob.. which makes it harder for him.. it's been even harder for me to resolve that than it was the jealousy

*gives Fi a huge hug*

 

[Stegral]

I talk to him all day every day which helps..

This is where it would kill me...
I am glad that there is NO contact between play times...
makes me feel like there was no lapsed time from the last time.
(I told you my wiring was fucked...)

 

[ecstaticsub]

I feel you're pain but I'm jealous. I get to see Master every 2-3 months.. as it is right now, I'm not sure when the next visit will be. I talk to him all day every day which helps..but the non-touching part gets so difficult that sometimes I cant help but just sob.. which makes it harder for him.. it's been even harder for me to resolve that than it was the jealousy

Yep, this is my situation, too. This past year has been particular difficult because we have seen each other even less. But we talk or at least IM everyday. The relationship is also very secure, as he calls it--airtight.

 

[EmpressFi]

I've been sharing the conversations..both this one and the one started by SKL ... so I asked him the latest question about being ordered to bottom.. his answer was...

M: you're submitting to my request to be a bottom
M: how's that for a smartassed answer?

*sigh*

I miss him..

 

[EmpressFi]

Yep, this is my situation, too. This past year has been particular difficult because we have seen each other even less. But we talk or at least IM everyday. The relationship is also very secure, as he calls it--airtight.

Yeah.. I get similar statement.. sometimes he needs the reassurance.. most times.. I do..

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Like BiBunny, I feel it is such a shame that all this drama is bought up in this thread. I thought the topic were an interesting one, and if I am honest, some point of views have made me think more deeply into my submission/dominance and bottoming/Topping, and what they meant to me.

I feel disappointed, BF, that you often used other people's examples or relationships to compare with yours, I feel that is a very rude thing to do, especially in nh's case, you do not know the story between nh and Chris, and neither do I. Nobody can COMPARE with other relationships or situations with their own relationships or situations, since every situation, every relationship, everyone are different. I don't like to see some people using other people's examples of a relationship or situation with their own, WHEN they are very different from each other.

I am guilty of comparing myself with my friends, sometimes, but I do not do it publicly, I do the comarping in my mind, but at the end of the day, I know I am very different from them and they are very different from me.

At the end of the day, everyone can't really compare other people's lifestyles or whatever, its not fair on that person.

Now I am hoping other people can chime in with their point of views on the topic.

so, please can we get back to the topic?

(nh & BiBunny, I hope you don't mind me cutting in, as I am getting a bit fed up and bored with the comparing thing. and thank you, BiBunny for bringing this topic up, I have learnt quite a lot about myself and about how I view with submission and bottoming.)

I am sorry you feel dissapointed Catz, but it wasn't me who started this sarcastic shitty posts yesterday neither it was me who used me, my SO and my Dom as a exapmle first. All I did is react right back.

You wanna tell me what I have is fantasy, that my mindset is a cheater mindset and things like that? You better be ready I will tell you what I think right back, easy as that.

As to your post. I am sorry I used you as an example evntho I think I used it in a nice way? I said I was wondering how you can let the man spank you and then say you do not belong to someone, but I also explain I didn't know what bottoming was, now I understand. I am sorry I used you as an example.

In nh23 and BiBunny case I am not sorry at all cuz it was this two who started this sarcastic posts yesterday. I can be nice, but I am sorry I am tired to be nice to damn anyone.

You are right I dunno what happened between nh and Chris and I don't wanna know either. She said her opinion on me - I said my opinion on her, I think it's just fair.

As for Bunny saying "I'm sick of people whose only experience with BDSM is in a goddamn chat room trying to tell me what's what."
I never told you what's what did I? If I remeber well I said you are very experienced and I am just saying my lil nerdy opinion. I also said I didn't know anything about bottoming before you started this thread, but you still kept being sarastic to me and to Catalina. You said your opinion on things-I said mine. I respected yours, but you didn't respect mine, nvm.


Due to online D/s...
I know theres people for who online D/s means nothing without the physical contact, but theres also people like me for who is online D/s alot. It's a outlet and in many cases only way how we can enjoy this things. Once I will get to know someone in my neigbhourhood I will surely do all of this in real life as well, but sadly I dunno damn anyone who does this things IRL. Can't say I am happy about it.

I dunno any Dom or a sub around me with who I could go and have fun like most of you do. Once I will find someone I will live it as well just as you do. I can respect what Homburg said about online D/s. It's not his cup of a tea and I understand that very well. Why he would like online D/s when he can get it all in real. I can't respect what Bunny said about online D/s tho cuz if you look on her post you'll see theres a big difference in how he said it and how she say it. Homburg said what he think with respect, Bunny's was just sarcastic, again.

I have no prob with your view of things Bunny, just gimme a space to say my own opinion from the "goddamn chat room" as you call it, thank you.

Soz Catz, I am all quiet now.

 

[BiBunny]

Bunny tends to be sarcastic when she's tried to be nice at least a dozen times, and her point is still totally missed, while her words are being twisted around in order to win a pissing contest. But whatever. Frankly, my dear....

It dawned on me that I haven't really stated my own views on my own thread. Sorry, guys.

Never mind, I interrupted myself. I had a train of thought going and half a post made, but then I forgot where I was going with it. I promise to come back and post it when I remember. Damn ADD, LOL.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't understand why you're feeling slammed. I have a similar background and most of the public play I've done has been with people who are GLBT, not people who are het or even other bi people. My observation is that Top/bottom versus Dom/sub is not even a blip on the radar of things people feel conflict about in the scene.

I came out of a mixed queer leather club as a large part of my background, dudes playing with dudes women playing with women for the majority of the time, a lot of T/b relationships. These tops and bottoms bought houses together and had children together - this is what I don't get.

In het sm circles, if you are not Master/slave or your don't do heavy power exchange the default relationship that people imagine is "lots of indiscriminate play with whoever, if you were serious you'd be doing D/s like we are, duh..."

In the queer leather scene I think people are more apt to just look at the relationship for seriousness. Not whether it's poly or M/s or D/s or Top/bottom and vanilla, just who are these people and how are they together.

" Bob and Don just bought a house together, oh cool." Not "oh, aren't they both fucking Jim? Jeez, how serious could they be then, shit..." or "well you know Don has lots of limits and he's a smart ass, Bob totally is just a fluffy ol service top, they suck."

My little scene is all about the poly - mono split. If you're not poly, you're kind of akin to the people who don't get they're living in the Matrix.

 

[Homburg]

My little scene is all about the poly - mono split. If you're not poly, you're kind of akin to the people who don't get they're living in the Matrix.

Red Pill or Blue Pill?

Luckily that sort of oddness hasn't cropped up in the group we're in. So far.

 

[Netzach]

My little scene is all about the poly - mono split. If you're not poly, you're kind of akin to the people who don't get they're living in the Matrix.

I don't think everyone would be poly if only they were enlightened and hip and cool. I just wish everyone who wasn't and didn't get it would realize that they have no authoritative basis for comment on it instead of standing around secretly hoping they get to say they told me so if I slip up, just dying to tell me my life will all end in tears, immune to their own fucked up circumstances.

 

[intothewoods]

Red Pill or Blue Pill?

Luckily that sort of oddness hasn't cropped up in the group we're in. So far.

It's not all that overt. But most people are poly. And I do know that monogamous couples do take some flack. And they all at least "play" with others (but don't fuck). Imagine if they didn't do that!

 

[nh23]

I don't think everyone would be poly if only they were enlightened and hip and cool. I just wish everyone who wasn't and didn't get it would realize that they have no authoritative basis for comment on it instead of standing around secretly hoping they get to say they told me so if I slip up, just dying to tell me my life will all end in tears, immune to their own fucked up circumstances.

*nods* Very well said..

 

[Netzach]

I'm sorry if people hand out flack.

Having to pass H off as an avuncular "family friend" when I was in the hospital is something that those mono couples don't have to do, unless they're queer in an uptight town.

There's a lot more pressure in the day to day for me not to be like me than for them not to be like them. There are a lot more judgement calls to be handed out.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think everyone would be poly if only they were enlightened and hip and cool. I just wish everyone who wasn't and didn't get it would realize that they have no authoritative basis for comment on it instead of standing around secretly hoping they get to say they told me so if I slip up, just dying to tell me my life will all end in tears, immune to their own fucked up circumstances.

I gotcha. It does kind of crack me up that it's so different in my group. Say the word "master" and people cringe. Not everyone, mind you. But amongst the inner circle, as it were. It's also a pretty intellectual/urban/hip set. I sometimes feel intimidated, but I get by. But anyway, I often find myself saying, psst, don't laugh you guys, but I think I might be monogamous! Like I have the flu. Ha! Anyway, at the end of the day, I do feel like it's not a game and no one's keeping score. I'm out to figure out what works for me. And the rest is just the rest.

 

[Netzach]

I gotcha. It does kind of crack me up that it's so different in my group. Say the word "master" and people cringe. Not everyone, mind you. But amongst the inner circle, as it were. It's also a pretty intellectual/urban/hip set. I sometimes feel intimidated, but I get by. But anyway, I often find myself saying, psst, don't laugh you guys, but I think I might be monogamous! Like I have the flu. Ha! Anyway, at the end of the day, I do feel like it's not a game and no one's keeping score. I'm out to figure out what works for me. And the rest is just the rest.

I've never found a group like that in my SM travels. You have located the mysterious cool kids that I've never found.

 

[intothewoods]

I've never found a group like that in my SM travels. You have located the mysterious cool kids that I've never found.

I know! It's a crazy reality to "grow up" in, if you get me. You really should come to a party or something sometime. I think you'd fit in better than I do! But I do okay.

A friend of mine, who is poly but not an extreme s&m-er, and I have discussed how there is so much pressure in our group to be constantly pushing boundaries. Sometimes I just feel like, damn people, I gotta go home and watch a episode of Golden Girls. I'm lame - fuck off!

 

[Netzach]

I know! It's a crazy reality to "grow up" in, if you get me. You really should come to a party or something sometime. I think you'd fit in better than I do! But I do okay.

A friend of mine, who is poly but not an extreme s&m-er, and I have discussed how there is so much pressure in our group to be constantly pushing boundaries. Sometimes I just feel like, damn people, I gotta go home and watch a episode of Golden Girls. I'm lame - fuck off!

haha, yeah, the few people I met like that who are serious edge players tripped that response in me, eventually. My play is boring to some people and that's fine.

Especially among prodommes. I was definitely the "wow, I will never be that hardcore, good for you" person.

 

[Homburg]

It's not all that overt. But most people are poly. And I do know that monogamous couples do take some flack. And they all at least "play" with others (but don't fuck). Imagine if they didn't do that!

Your group sounds it has some "interesting" people in it. Remind me to avoid them =P

 

[intothewoods]

Your group sounds it has some "interesting" people in it. Remind me to avoid them =P

Ha! No, they're a good group.