children and public displays of BDSM

[intothewoods]

You can't control what a child thinks, and wants to know. But you can control your own behavior. If you don't want to answer a question, or you don't want to discuss a subject with them, you don't have to.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Oh i feel the same way. Some people were saying how they wouldn't want to explain that to their children. If they don't, come up with something. Like i said earlier, i was told about the whole reproductive system and the birds and the bees when i was 6. i have a VERY open and honest relationship with my mom now. i have talked to her in depth about a lot of things around the topic of sex. i think it's healthy for kids to know. If they are asking, answer them. It doesn't have to be in detail. If they ask for more detail, give it to them.

lol well i am not comfortable with explaining 'sex' or any other adult things with my 5 year old son, especially in detail, if he asks something, i'll normally make something up as i just don't think he needs to know at 5 years old.

 

[Kailey_86]

no one is saying her views are not valid, but if you dont' have kids, how could you possibly know they will just mind you no matter what. you say it's over, and they just say 'ok it's over' and go on? i've never seen a child do that..ever...no matter the ways of parenting....

i am that child. If my paren't said it was over, they meant it. If i were curious enough and old enough to figure out how, i would go find out on my own. my parents answered most of my questions though so this wasn't such a big deal for me.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i am that child. If my paren't said it was over, they meant it. If i were curious enough and old enough to figure out how, i would go find out on my own. my parents answered most of my questions though so this wasn't such a big deal for me.

hmmm..ok well, most children are not like that and will not take the 'because i said so' answer or whatever, that will only cause them to ask more questions....anyway, i didn't mean to take the thread off topic.....sooooo...carry on

 

[intothewoods]

no one is saying her views are not valid, but if you dont' have kids, how could you possibly know they will just mind you no matter what. you say it's over, and they just say 'ok it's over' and go on? i've never seen a child do that..ever...no matter the ways of parenting....

I've seen plenty of kids like this. Some have incredibly strict parents. Some just don't push. Some know their limits. In my family, we certainly talked a lot, so I can't say I remember my parents often telling me, I refuse to discuss this or something. On the other hand, if my parents made a decision about something, that was that. I couldn't then ask in a different way four hundred times. Their word is final. I was as stubborn as they come, but I completely respected my parents' authority.

Look, if I had a kid curious about something related to sexuality, I'd probably provide the information I saw appropriate, and then if they were still curious, I'd find them a book (educational, not erotica, lol). Generally speaking though, I have no problem saying the answer is no.

 

[intothewoods]

i am that child. If my paren't said it was over, they meant it. If i were curious enough and old enough to figure out how, i would go find out on my own. my parents answered most of my questions though so this wasn't such a big deal for me.

Yes, exactly. I was that child, and I had those parents - meaning, when my parents made a decision, it was final. Maybe I would question it, but I ultimately respected their authority. But again, like you, Kailey, my parents also answered most of my questions. We all liked to talk.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Yes, exactly. I was that child, and I had those parents - meaning, when my parents made a decision, it was final. Maybe I would question it, but I ultimately respected their authority. But again, like you, Kailey, my parents also answered most of my questions. We all liked to talk.

my parents answered my questions too...but when they chose to tell me ' you're no old enough' or whatever, i always questioned that as well..it's what kids do.....and why telling them 'ill tell you when you're older' wouldn't work, especially on my 5 year old son.....

 

[intothewoods]

my parents answered my questions too...but when they chose to tell me ' you're no old enough' or whatever, i always questioned that as well..it's what kids do.....and why telling them 'ill tell you when you're older' wouldn't work, especially on my 5 year old son.....

Absolutely, and I would never dismiss a child by saying, you wouldn't understand this, etc.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I've seen plenty of kids like this. Some have incredibly strict parents. Some just don't push. Some know their limits. In my family, we certainly talked a lot, so I can't say I remember my parents often telling me, I refuse to discuss this or something. On the other hand, if my parents made a decision about something, that was that. I couldn't then ask in a different way four hundred times. Their word is final. I was as stubborn as they come, but I completely respected my parents' authority.

Look, if I had a kid curious about something related to sexuality, I'd probably provide the information I saw appropriate, and then if they were still curious, I'd find them a book (educational, not erotica, lol). Generally speaking though, I have no problem saying the answer is no.

well again, sorry, i'm not going to explain any type of sexuality to my 5 year old. and it's really hard for me to believe there are that many 'perfect' children out there in the world who never question their parents answers to questions.

on another note, and this is not directed at inthewoods it's just an observation, it seems those without kids are the ones saying these public displays of BDSM are ok in front of kids and shouldn't be an issue, while those with kids are in agreement that it's 'tacky' and not 'ok' so to speak...very interesting thread this has turned out to be....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Absolutely, and I would never dismiss a child by saying, you wouldn't understand this, etc.

LOL well my 5 year old WOULDN'T understand why that lady is wearing a collar with a man holding the leash..no matter what explanation i gave him, and when i said 'because they are playing' he'd say..well what are they playing mommy? and on and on and on...and if i said drop it, he'd say..why mommy?? 'because i said so' 'but WHY mommy' etc...that's my point

 

[FurryFury]

My son, as soon as he could talk and question, wanted to know clear details about the reproductive process. His questions, often in public, were embarrassing to me at times.

I told him that when I felt he was old enough to keep the information to himself, rather than talk about it in public I would give him more details but for now, I would not.

So other than the fairly standard, when two people love each other crap, he got nothing no matter how many times and ways he asked.

However he did find out fairly early that guys had a penis and girls had a clitoris. That was pretty obvious but he thought girls only had a really small penis at first.

Fury

 

[skittles_lm]

Ok, this might open a can of worms but, why not, let the dirt fly. i feel strongly about this and i need to vent a bit.

There was a thread on the collarme forum about a slave who's Master wanted to take her out in slave gear (cuffs, waist belt, collar, and leash). People started talking about how they didn't want to be forced to have to explain that to their kids. i think that this is where all the trouble starts. We can't shelter our kids from everything. If we show negativity towards people who are wearing a collar or cuffs, our kids will pick up on that. They will become intolerant and unaccepting. i want my kids to learn acceptance for ALL. If my kids asked why a woman was being led on a leash, i would say that they just like to do that. That fosters the idea of to each their own. i would be telling the truth without going into unnecessary detail.

As for the general public. They might be offended too. Why? They might think that it's purely sexual and these people should keep it in the bedroom. It isn't purely sexual though. If they vanilla group doesn't understand that, that is their problem. Why should i have to hide because people are ignorant?

i'm sorry but intolerance for others really bothers me. Nobody puts up a fuss when they see two lesbian women kissing. Nobody puts up a fight when they see a man wearing a blue mohawk and half a million piercings. These people are just expressing who they are. If a collar, leash, and cuffs represents who you are, why can't you wear it in public like everyone else?

Edited to add: If all of us wore our collars or other related accessories/clothing out in public more often, maybe the general population would eventually become used to it. They wouldn't think twice about it after a while. This has to start somewhere though. People were uncomfortable and offended by homosexuals at first but because they were exposed to it more, they slowly became more comfortable with it. It wasn't so new to them and therefore not as scary.

I'm with you. My kids are 1 and 3, and they are around some weird things once in awhile. I will teach tolerance by example, and hopefully they can pass that along... the world needs more of it for sure.

 

[FurryFury]

LOL well my 5 year old WOULDN'T understand why that lady is wearing a collar with a man holding the leash..no matter what explanation i gave him, and when i said 'because they are playing' he'd say..well what are they playing mommy? and on and on and on...and if i said drop it, he'd say..why mommy?? 'because i said so' 'but WHY mommy' etc...that's my point

LOL!

I'd say, I dunno.

Why do you think they might be doing that?

Can you make up a story about it?

And so on until they ether dropped it or started coming up with a story.

I'm quite stubborn in the I dunno category. I think it's important to not know things and to admit it at times. I also think it's important to use it at times as a shield when you don't want to say certain things to small kids.

I love to get kids to think and be creative for themselves as they explore the things they are really interested in too. If they are handed every answer they have no reason to seek them out themselves.

My kids ask questions often. I say, that would be a great thing to research!

They rarely but sometimes tell me they are bored. I say, what a wonderful gift because when you are bored your imagination can really come out and play!

They don't like it that I say those things. They groan. I bet they'll say them too though. LMAO!

Fury

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I think a lot of the different point of views on this thread do come from the area where we were raised, and where we live. I grew up in the SF Bay Area, have lived in Las Vegas, and now reside in central California.

I remember one time back in the mid-90s seeing a couple walking down Telegraph Ave in Berkeley pushing a stroller as naked as the day they were born. Not a big deal to me. I love to go to the Height in San Francisco, but haven't been in years. Either of those places, I would not have a problem leading rose on a leash.

However, here in town, I would not lead her though the local mall on a leash. This area is much more conservative and narrow minded than the bay area. It would not be an appropriate place to be 'out' in that nature. Sure there are the goth kids and the emo kids that have taken some of the symbolism of the Lifestyle and turned it into a fashion statement, but it would not be the same.

By the same token, I would not lead her on a leash in her Midwestern town, unless we were in line to see Rocky Horror or something.

I don't see it as hiding who we are, but showing consideration for the community around us. I do feel that the excuse of 'protecting the children' is one that is overused, but this is a case where it has some validity. It is also protecting the parents from having to have uncomfortable conversations with their children.

Rose does wear her collar all the time. She had a pic of it on her neck as her av for a while. It is a choker we got at Hot topic, so it just looks like a piece of jewelry, and doesn't attract attention. But her and I both know what it means, and taht is all that matters. I am comfortable enough in what we are to one another that I don't feel a need to lead her down the sidewalk of third street or mchenry ave on a leash.

 

[skittles_lm]

I think a lot of the different point of views on this thread do come from the area where we were raised, and where we live. I grew up in the SF Bay Area, have lived in Las Vegas, and now reside in central California.

I remember one time back in the mid-90s seeing a couple walking down Telegraph Ave in Berkeley pushing a stroller as naked as the day they were born. Not a big deal to me. I love to go to the Height in San Francisco, but haven't been in years. Either of those places, I would not have a problem leading rose on a leash.

However, here in town, I would not lead her though the local mall on a leash. This area is much more conservative and narrow minded than the bay area. It would not be an appropriate place to be 'out' in that nature. Sure there are the goth kids and the emo kids that have taken some of the symbolism of the Lifestyle and turned it into a fashion statement, but it would not be the same.

By the same token, I would not lead her on a leash in her Midwestern town, unless we were in line to see Rocky Horror or something.

I don't see it as hiding who we are, but showing consideration for the community around us. I do feel that the excuse of 'protecting the children' is one that is overused, but this is a case where it has some validity. It is also protecting the parents from having to have uncomfortable conversations with their children.

Rose does wear her collar all the time. She had a pic of it on her neck as her av for a while. It is a choker we got at Hot topic, so it just looks like a piece of jewelry, and doesn't attract attention. But her and I both know what it means, and taht is all that matters. I am comfortable enough in what we are to one another that I don't feel a need to lead her down the sidewalk of third street or mchenry ave on a leash.

*sigh* I agree and disagree with you. Parents these days are almost always saved from uncomfortable discussions with their kids. What else is tv and school for right? Hell, schools even teach sex ed... kind of. Perhaps parents should be made to answer questions like this, so that their children can grow, and learn from their parents instead of Spongebob.
I do understand about respecting the fact that what we do can make others very discomfitted though. I just think that people need to be shocked out of their stagnancy once in awhile.
I am so nosy... where in Cali are you? lol nice post...

 

[lil_slave_rose]

*sigh* I agree and disagree with you. Parents these days are almost always saved from uncomfortable discussions with their kids. What else is tv and school for right? Hell, schools even teach sex ed... kind of. Perhaps parents should be made to answer questions like this, so that their children can grow, and learn from their parents instead of Spongebob.
I do understand about respecting the fact that what we do can make others very discomfitted though. I just think that people need to be shocked out of their stagnancy once in awhile.
I am so nosy... where in Cali are you? lol nice post...

there are just as many parents who do answer those questions, as those who don't. but again at 5 years old..that is not the age, though i think we've kind of gotten off topic...i have really enjoyed this thread..it is a great discussion for sure!

P.S. He is in Modesto

 

[BiBunny]

on another note, and this is not directed at inthewoods it's just an observation, it seems those without kids are the ones saying these public displays of BDSM are ok in front of kids and shouldn't be an issue, while those with kids are in agreement that it's 'tacky' and not 'ok' so to speak...very interesting thread this has turned out to be....

Yep. I'm an odd one out, I guess. I'm 23. I have no kids, no desire to have kids--don't even like kids that much, really. Still, though, I side with you and others because I can remember a time not too long ago when I was that kid. I'd ask questions about everything. I was a super-nerd, too, (still am in many ways) so if I wasn't satisfied with the answer I got, I'd go find a book and look it up. And, believe me, I was quite good at finding out everything about everything if I wanted to.

Of course, this is coming from the girl who read every single encyclopedia, cover-to-cover, in the house before she was 9 years old. So, yeah, maybe all kids aren't as geeky as I was (am).

 

[skittles_lm]

there are just as many parents who do answer those questions, as those who don't. but again at 5 years old..that is not the age, though i think we've kind of gotten off topic...i have really enjoyed this thread..it is a great discussion for sure!

P.S. He is in Modesto

lol, thanks love. And I do realize that you should not be giving detailed explainations to kids that young, but they should be told something about what they see. And I am not saying that you do not do that, but I know penty who tell their kids "nevermind, you're too young"...
I do understand your point though. I am mostly keeping my not-so-vanilla life away from my kids until they are old enough to get that everyone is different and it is okay.

How old is that, I wonder? lol They say the age of reason is nine, is that old enough to tell them that mommy likes to be spanked and led around on a leash?

 

[CutieMouse]

*sigh* I agree and disagree with you. Parents these days are almost always saved from uncomfortable discussions with their kids. What else is tv and school for right? Hell, schools even teach sex ed... kind of. Perhaps parents should be made to answer questions like this, so that their children can grow, and learn from their parents instead of Spongebob.
I do understand about respecting the fact that what we do can make others very discomfitted though. I just think that people need to be shocked out of their stagnancy once in awhile.
I am so nosy... where in Cali are you? lol nice post...

See here's my thing though... why presume that because someone doesn't care to see other people done up in collars/leathers/leashes, that they are being "stagnant" and need to be "shocked"?

Anyone who comes across me in daily life sees a very conservative, librarian-like woman in her 30s. I rebuff any attempts at flirtation. If a guy doesn't get the hint, I'll flat out say "Look- I'm single, celibate, and off the market; no I'm not telling you if I'm a natural redhead, as that question proves you to be a cad. Go hit on someone else." (Hence, the reputation as a prude.)

If my kids are around, people see a very conservative, frazzled, drowning in reality woman in her 30s, who is quite busy answering questions about anything from the formation of black holes or various issues of quantum physics, to why that man over there has a nose piercing & does it hurt, to Mommy can I please have some ice cream?

My children have been taught that marriage is not the be all and end all of relationships. They have been taught that women are capable of loving each other, men are capable of loving each other, and sometimes Friends are closer than family. They've been exposed to lesbian couples. They have been (unwittingly) exposed to poly relationships. Their mother has had multiple Lo0vers (both genders). They have found my "toys". They have (as toddlers) walked in on my ex and I in the middle of sex. They've been told that sex is pretty damned special, but you don't have to be married to have it. They've been taught masturbation is something that feels good, but to please remember it is a private time thing. Their intorduction to sex began at age two... the older ones watched the birth of their siblings.

Anyone who meets me in daily life would presume I'm one of those people needing to be shocked out of stagnancy- especially because I would not be all that happy to see overt displays of BDSM, regardless of if the kids were with me or not, but it just ain't so.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

lol, thanks love. And I do realize that you should not be giving detailed explainations to kids that young, but they should be told something about what they see. And I am not saying that you do not do that, but I know penty who tell their kids "nevermind, you're too young"...
I do understand your point though. I am mostly keeping my not-so-vanilla life away from my kids until they are old enough to get that everyone is different and it is okay.

How old is that, I wonder? lol They say the age of reason is nine, is that old enough to tell them that mommy likes to be spanked and led around on a leash?

LOL..uh..for me?? hell no that's not old enough! and i won't be telling my kids that anyway...LOL...i don't think they ever really need to know what kind of sex i like to have...and i don't think they'll want to know either .lol

 

[skittles_lm]

See here's my thing though... why presume that because someone doesn't care to see other people done up in collars/leathers/leashes, that they are being "stagnant" and need to be "shocked"?

Anyone who comes across me in daily life sees a very conservative, librarian-like woman in her 30s. I rebuff any attempts at flirtation. If a guy doesn't get the hint, I'll flat out say "Look- I'm single, celibate, and off the market; no I'm not telling you if I'm a natural redhead, as that question proves you to be a cad. Go hit on someone else."

If my kids are around, people see a very conservative, frazzled, drowning in reality woman in her 30s, who is quite busy answering questions about anything from the formation of black holes or various issues of quantum physics, to why that man over there has a nose piercing & does it hurt, to Mommy can I please have some ice cream?

My children have been taught that marriage is not the be all and end all of relationships. They have been taught that women are capable of loving each other, men are capable of loving each other, and sometimes Friends are closer than family. They've been exposed to lesbian couples. They have been (unwittingly) exposed to poly relationships. They have found my "toys". They have (as toddlers) walked in on my ex and I in the middle of sex. They've been told that sex is pretty damned special, but you don't have to be married to have it. They've been taught masturbation is something that feels good, but to please remember it is a private time thing.

I can see where you would think I am judging everybody, but I am only making generalizations for the sake of conversation. Anyone looking at me would see a single mom of two toddlers, nothing more or less. I, like you, am frazzled, answering questions and trying to hold a kid in each arm plus a purse, diaper bag and perhaps a stuffed animal or three. I am not judging you.

Can you really say that no one needs to be shocked? No one at all? I just feel that some people need their blinders pulled off on occasion. Not necessarily by someone from the lifestyle either, just in general. *shrug* All of this imho of course.

 

[eastern sun]

. . .

I live in New York City. We're so close to our neighbors we listen to each other have sex through the walls and open windows. But we try to be polite and considerate. The world is often shocking enough without our direct intervention.

On the other hand, when I was a young woman I refused to use a fork and knife in fancy restaurants, preferring to use my fingers, just to challenge the fragile social order. Now I'm trying to teach my children not to eat with their fingers.

So my problem has been watching my children gradually take on the D/s roles in their own games. My daughter is a natural submissive. My son a natural dominant. Interesting. They have found our toys, and I wonder some day what will happen when they realize what it is they're finding. For now, they don't really want to know what the flogger is for, and seem to feel intuitively that it's not theirs to play with.

My daughter regularly asks her brother and his friends to lead her around by a "leash." She would probably be delighted and a bit confused to see a "grown woman" enjoying what she enjoys so freely.

It challenges our notions of what is "adult" and what is "child-like."

 

[ammre]

on another note, and this is not directed at inthewoods it's just an observation, it seems those without kids are the ones saying these public displays of BDSM are ok in front of kids and shouldn't be an issue, while those with kids are in agreement that it's 'tacky' and not 'ok' so to speak...very interesting thread this has turned out to be....

I don't do kids... I used to babysit a lot, and while i liked certian kids, I liked the fact that i could give them back even more. Clearly, I don't have them, but i'm almost young enough to remember what it was like to be one. Yet, I think i might have been the first person to call the collar and leash thing tacky. That's mostly jsut becasue i hate people who parade things around. On your way somewhere... yay, just for the sake of wearing it out.. boo.

I'm also staunchly against parents turning their inquisitive children away. If they want to know something they'll find the information somewhere, be it an answer you can form or some other less honest source.
Oh and a fun thought... When i was in 7th grade, about 12 years ago, I was 11. I was the youngest in my class, the oldest being 13. There were already two girls in my class who had had sex, most of them had been drunk at least once, and about 1/4th of them smoked pot, two girls had their stomachs pumped after graduation becasue they drank so much, and one girl is dead now because she was beaten to death by her angry drug dealer. And I live in one of the richest suburbs in new jersey, went to a catholic school, and had 21 kids in my graduating 8th grade class.
I'm not a great statistic myself. When i asked my mother about sex she told me it's something i couldn't do until i was married. Schools don't give decent sex-ed, and i learned form Cosmo. Apparently that wasne't enough becasue now i'll be living with an STD for the rest of my life.
Just keep talking to your kids. It's better to work with them even if you don't wholeheartedly approve, then to alienate them. It's scary out there, help them.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I don't do kids... I used to babysit a lot, and while i liked certian kids, I liked the fact that i could give them back even more. Clearly, I don't have them, but i'm almost young enough to remember what it was like to be one. Yet, I think i might have been the first person to call the collar and leash thing tacky. That's mostly jsut becasue i hate people who parade things around. On your way somewhere... yay, just for the sake of wearing it out.. boo.

I'm also staunchly against parents turning their inquisitive children away. If they want to know something they'll find the information somewhere, be it an answer you can form or some other less honest source.
Oh and a fun thought... When i was in 7th grade, about 12 years ago, I was 11. I was the youngest in my class, the oldest being 13. There were already two girls in my class who had had sex, most of them had been drunk at least once, and about 1/4th of them smoked pot, two girls had their stomachs pumped after graduation becasue they drank so much, and one girl is dead now because she was beaten to death by her angry drug dealer. And I live in one of the richest suburbs in new jersey, went to a catholic school, and had 21 kids in my graduating 8th grade class.
I'm not a great statistic myself. When i asked my mother about sex she told me it's something i couldn't do until i was married. Schools don't give decent sex-ed, and i learned form Cosmo. Apparently that wasne't enough becasue now i'll be living with an STD for the rest of my life.
Just keep talking to your kids. It's better to work with them even if you don't wholeheartedly approve, then to alienate them. It's scary out there, help them.

i do talk with my kids and i know they know that they can come to me with anything, but again, my 5 year old doesn't need to know these things. also, i never said EVERYONE who doens't have kids are saying it's ok, i said it seems that MOST....it's just an observation, it seems those without kids are the ones saying these public displays of BDSM are ok in front of kids and shouldn't be an issue, while those with kids are in agreement that it's 'tacky' and not 'ok' so to speak

 

[the captians wench]

hmmm..ok well, most children are not like that and will not take the 'because i said so' answer or whatever, that will only cause them to ask more questions....anyway, i didn't mean to take the thread off topic.....sooooo...carry on

I was like kailly too. If my mom said "because I said so" I knew that ment business and I needed to shut my mouth. I remember asking my mom how to shave my legs. She told me I was too young. A few days later I went and knicked the hell out of my legs trying to shave them. When I asked her why she said I was too young insted of showing me like other mother's had done for my friends she told me "there are some things you need to learn on your own".

*shrug* but I'm also the kid that would go out and do something I wasn't suposed to, and with my parents totally un aware, I'd come home and tell them what I did and face punishment.