Comments on the Updated Stickies!

[Lancecastor]

The mod is not Mommy and she isn't here to referee.

Summary:

1. Threads should only be closed if they are in clear breach of the rules set between Laurel and the Lit moderaters in their terms of reference.

2. (Note: there is a different set of rules for mods than what appears in the sticky here.)

3. The reason you see less moderation elsewhere on Lit is because there are fewer Rules.

4. The reason there is more "unrest" in the BDSM Forum is because there are more Rules here and heavy-handed Moderation compared to the rest of the site.

5. BDSM Forum members don't need this kind of "protection".

6. The BDSM Forum brings ridicule upon itself and BDSM generally by behaving as cloistered, exclusive, backbiters with virtually no sense of decorum... or humour.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Yes KM, Please call me Miss Prissy Bum. It's the nicest thing he's ever said about me and I do so want to hang on to it, just as my pm is still being hung onto out there somewhere. He won't read it or even answser it when I post the same to the board. The pm has sat now for 2 and a half hours, on this board and in his box. But you all have seen that and that it remains unanswered.

Everyone has seen that all I ask is what HE would like little old me to do. Of course if HE tells me what HE wants me to do and I do it, then this whole thing is over. And where is the fun in that?

And why he spends so much time on such mundane issues as a lousey thread of mine when he can be out there entertaining and teasing his grrls is really beyond me.

Rose aka Miss Cute Prissy Bum

 

[KillerMuffin]

But you're not a prissy bum! Or is he still miffed because you wouldn't let him slap a collar on you?

 

[A Desert Rose]

No, you have it wrong KM.....

He hates me.

Rose aka Miss Prissy Bum

 

[KillerMuffin]

I knew that. I was teasing a little.

He hates any woman who doesn't bow down and wait for permission to do anything. He really hates subbie women who think for themselves like you do. Especially if they don't ask him permission to think for themselves first.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I was just next in line

to feel his ambvielence and his dislike. We all know who came before me. I wonder who will come after me?

It does make me sad. But everyone sees the he is ignoring my requests to make this right with him. And everyone can see why and how he is doing so.

This friendship is probally beyond repair now. I am sorry for that.

Rose aka Miss Prissy Bum

 

[Lancecastor]

Hi Rose.....for the 10,003rd time...this is not and never was about You.

(I'm not receiving your PM's...I always answer my viewer mail.)

This, for me, is mostly about the conditions under which Moderators lock down, move, destroy....whatever today's word is....threads here.

If there is to a be a Sticky or set of Rules here by which people are expected to conduct themselves, the conditions for locking down a Thread should be put in writing in the Sticky, IMHO.

It now appears that a thread starter can close a thread simply by asking, regardless of who else has posted or the contents of the thread.

This was not the case just a few weeks ago, by the way. I know because I asked to have one of my threads closed because of the hateful things people were saying and was told by Cym that it "wasn't possible".

I see two problems in this as it relates to the success, comfort and relevancy of the BDSM Forum:

1. Bias- people now generally accept it was biased here before. Is it biased now too, but in a new way? If so, what has changed? Same shit, different day? Cherry touched on this yesterday.

2. Disclosure- I dont think there should be any rules here...just solid guidelines. But regardless of any decision made for the future, it should be communicated in a full, clear and unambiguous way.


As to the secondary subtext some have been prattling about over Rose's personal remarks.....

Why Rose didn't just edit her link out and ask for links & opinions on the Law & BDSM to keep the thread going only she knows for sure.

What Rose does or doesn't do with her posts is her thing. I have no comment. Nor should I.

I resent the catty remarks from those who have jumped on my ass over this. I started a thread on the GB for Muffy to wail on me and she appears to be okay with that. You are welcome to do so as well, as always....just don't cry to Mommy if I say something back.

Cheers;

Lance

 

[Sandia]

MsWorthy:
“It seems to me that one of the differences between the d/s lifestyle and a *regular* lifestyle is the strict requirement of respect, honor, and self-control.”
Quite a few of us in a ‘regular lifestyle’ rolleyes have a strict requirement of respect, honor, and self-control.

Lancecaster:
“If you delete those threads, my guess is one day Laurel will simply unmoderate the place or fold it back in under the GB.”
No, she won’t.


We’ve already seen what happens when a forum mod stops regulating the content of their forum. The Playground sprang up because the Personals forum was swamped with posts that had nothing to do with personals. The same thing will happen to the BDSM board unless we have guidelines in place.

If we keep on amending the rules, and three months from now we amend them again, and three months from then we amend them, we’re eventually going to end up with a slightly kinkier version of the GB.

I disagree. I dont think there's any real danger of the BDSM becoming another GB or a Playground. I don't think those folks are biting on the bit to take over here. In fact, I don't know why anyone would come here and post unless they had some interest in BDSM.

 

[Sandia]

Well shit. I'm agreeing with Lance.

I claim that the moderators here cannot moderate flame wars or delete them. It's not so much that these things are evil, it's the entire concept of favoritism and limits. These things require human judgment--judgment that I might add will always be partial no matter what.

How do you define a flame? It seems simple. A personal insult, right? Someone attacking someone else. Easy? Of course not. Insult and offense is defined by the recipient, not the person sending the message. Take the recent words by Hot4Heels about Canadian law to Lance. That was interpreted as a flame, but was it meant that way? Would you delete it? According to the proposed "Delete flames" rules, yes, you would have to. But what if it wasn't meant to be a flame? You have just stifled a person. You cannot have rules that are based on subjectivity without causing far more problems than they will solve.

You should not delete words because they make others uncomfortable or angry. Why not? It sets a precedent and it puts Risia in the impossible position of being the board's parent. She must decide what is acceptable content and what is not based on something that, by its very nature, cannot be empirically defined. This forces Risia into a situation where people can start screaming partiality. Instead of resolving flame wars, you have just created a climate where they will breed.

My solution is simple. Flame wars are rare in an open community. The reason we just went through a load of them is because this wasn't a very open community. What has changed is that a dialogue has opened where people feel they, personally, have a say in what's going on. This is very open and Risia is to be heartily commended for it. (I heart Risia, btw). Rather than stop flame wars, let them go. Yes, feelings may be hurt and people may be uncomfortable, but, as all humans have experienced, sometimes we have to rage to see clearly or to change what needs to be changed.

Stifling a basic human need is not going to solve a problem, it's going to make it worse because we are human. We get angry and if we cannot get rid of the anger, it can hurt us even worse.

I don't see flame wars as evil. I see them as necessary things.

However, long and unchecked ones aren't good either. Risia handled the one involving Rick absolutely perfectly. She spoke to him in private instead of humiliating him in public. She gave him an ultimatum and still allowed him to make an ass out of himself. No, they weren't fun, but the whole thing is resolved rather than pushed under the rug. If he had continued she would have deleted them--I would rather see them shunted over to the General Board instead, but that's between Risia and Laurel.

To summarize, putting subjective limits on content isn't going to resolve the issue no matter what we might think. Instead, I believe it will make things worse in the long run and will continue to drive a wedge through the regulars in this forum. I believe that flame wars have their uses and instead of forcing Risia into the role of being responsible for other users' content, we keep her in the more diplomatic role of a moderator.

She's a very good one, let's not make it more difficult for her than it already is. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'd really like to keep her and I will support her in her efforts.

Goddammit.

I hate it when somebody says something better than I can.

I claim that the moderators here cannot moderate flame wars or delete them. It's not so much that these things are evil, it's the entire concept of favoritism and limits. These things require human judgment--judgment that I might add will always be partial no matter what.

 

[cellis]

Re: I was just next in line

to feel his ambvielence and his dislike. We all know who came before me. I wonder who will come after me?

It does make me sad. But everyone sees the he is ignoring my requests to make this right with him. And everyone can see why and how he is doing so.

This friendship is probally beyond repair now. I am sorry for that.

Rose aka Miss Prissy Bum

Rose I have seen this before with the afore mentioned person. He simply has a way of looking at things... or perhaps it is that he looks into things that are none of his business and likes to make an issue out it.

I have seen this happen more than once.

In your defense I will say that I have sent several pm's over the last 72 hours and all of them have been delivered and responded to... so perhaps the afore mentioned person's denial of receipt is that they are unfamiliar with the system or like you said simple refused to acknowledge them.

I have to say that if I were as unhappy with place as the afore mentioned person and did not like the way it was run... well I think I would just pack my bag and go... and you will notice that many have done that rather than deal with this kind of thing on an ongoing basis.

Unfortunate... sad but true.

Stick to your guns... it will all come out in the wash!

Besides I rather like your style and guts!

 

[A Desert Rose]

Why Rose didn't just edit her link out and ask for links & opinions on the Law & BDSM to keep the thread going only she knows for sure.

What Rose does or doesn't do with her posts is her thing. I have no comment. Nor should I.


Cheers;

Lance

Did it ever fucking occur to you that I didn't THINK of just editing the thread? Did it ever occur to you that had you responded to my pm's you might have given me that advice, when I was asking for it?

No. What occured to you was your rights were being trampled on, and apparently by little old me.

And still you won't answer my post or the pm you say you are not recieving. If I make this right with you, then the whole thing is over and God knows you don't want that.

P.S. You are making it hard for me to be Simply Charming.

 

[lovetoread]

(I'm not receiving your PM's...I always answer my viewer mail.)

Just out of nosiness,I did pm him,and he answered me quickly.

Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Thank you LTR

That confirms what I have known all along. Now it's confirmed for every one.

 

[Lancecastor]

(see below)

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have requested that Risia repost the thread in question.

I don't have the stomach for this and for your public humiliation of me, Lance. Everyone now knows you have purposely ignored my pm's.

You win. As soon as the thread is back up, this is over.

 

[Lancecastor]

I knew that. I was teasing a little.

He hates any woman who doesn't bow down and wait for permission to do anything. He really hates subbie women who think for themselves like you do. Especially if they don't ask him permission to think for themselves first.

I am in this thread to talk about "Comments on the Updated Stickies!" That's all.

Muff, you are gearing up for another of your mean, vindictive Drama Queen Cymfests.

Fill your boots, little trout.

I'm not playing.

The issue revolves around conditions under which threads are locked.

That's the issue that keeps people away from here.

The bias.

The censorship.

The favoritism.

The PityParties are Red Herrings.

Who will you attack next? Dream is gone. Are you setting up Rose now? Cellis? As you said, you are mean and vindictive.

And as a Top Ten Poster, you enjoy this kind of stuff more than most anyone here.

Out of respect for Risia's request, I won't flame with you here. I started a thread for you to wail on me on the GB if you want.

See you there?

Cheers;

Lance

 

[artful]

My Own Crusade

Just a point or two, (well maybe no points at all) but I would bet a dollars against pennies, that 99% of all flaming, and or arguments would never materialise in the caustic fashion they appear, if any of the people sat down, face to face in a restaurant over a cup of coffee and a donut, (or something else they enjoyed eating and drinking).

Misinterpretations of intent, miscommunications, mistyping, missedposts, missedpm's, and misunderstandings, are rampant throughout TEXT messaging on Lit, (yeah,...I know there are many misspelled words and missnotwords in this post).

However, I love the Misses.

Due to the nature of WE human beings, wanting to respond first, before anyone else with our opinions, causes us to NOT necessarily get our POV explained as thoroughly as WE would like, in a short post.

WE hit that submit button most often "in a hurry."
Responding to a "possibly" inflammatory post, in a hurried manner, is like doing ANYTHING "hurried". It is a recipe for MISTAKES.

WE continue to FAIL in taking our time to properly VALIDATE exactly what is taking place, and/or etc.

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[A Desert Rose]

You have no idea how many times I have started to post to this discussion and then erased it all.

I tried twice yesterday to gleen his advice on the thread in question and I got no response from him then.

The only thing I asked nearly 5 hours ago, in pm and on this board was what he wanted me to do to make this right. His indifference to my request speaks volumes to all who read this.

I made the attempt to slavage this. And I have pm'd Risia to repost the thread.

 

[Lancecastor]

Rose;

As lovetoread's thread on the GB points out, it is highly inappropriate to post items from PM's.

Please stop doing so.

Thank you.

Lance

You have no idea how many times I have started to post to this discussion and then erased it all.

I tried twice yesterday to gleen his advice on the thread in question and I got no response from him then.

The only thing I asked nearly 5 hours ago, in pm and on this board was what he wanted me to do to make this right. His indifference to my request speaks volumes to all who read this.

I made the attempt to slavage this. And I have pm'd Risia to repost the thread.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Why Lance?

Because it brings to everyone's attention that you are continuing to ignore me? You answer her pm's in a prompt manner, according to her. It's pretty obvious that you have deliberately chosen to ignore mine. And furthermore, I have not divulged what was in those 2 pm's yesterday, only that I sent them.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Why Lance?

I have just received a PM from you and replied to it.

I also just received notification of two PM's cancelled by you.

I wasn't ignoring you; my many posts made that clear.

Because it brings to everyone's attention that you are continuing to ignore me? You answer her pm's in a prompt manner, according to her. It's pretty obvious that you have deliberately chosen to ignore mine. And furthermore, I have not divulged what was in those 2 pm's yesterday, only that I sent them.

 

[MissTaken]

Posting a pm, vis a vis , cut and paste is against the rules of lit.

The only exception would be if YOU posted a pm YOU had written.


OH well....apples and oranges. Just thought I would clear that up.

IN terms of Lances post concerning the sticky etc.

#3. He states there is unrest here because of the rules.

I contend that the unrest is here simply because we are a small pond in which one person makes a wave and it shakes the entire puddle.

The unrest here is peanuts, nada, meaningless compared to many of the personal onslaughts and flame wars that go on elsewhere at lit, wherein there are no rules.

Just my opinion.

But I thought I would throw it in so as to give Lance's comment room for discussion.

Any thoughts?

AS for me, I will continue to post with respect, regardless of what I think of someone. I will continue to ignore the things, posts and threads that piss me off. Well, I will usually ignore them, it depends on my cycle

And my board experience will continue to be a favorable experience. When it is no longer something I enjoy doing, I will leave.

I am openly apologizing to desertrose for posting regarding her reasons for asking the thread be removed. I have already explained my motivation, but in hindsight, realize I never should have spoken for her.

Sorry, Rose

 

[Guest]

I contend that the unrest is here simply because we are a small pond in which one person makes a wave and it shakes the entire puddle.

I agree that size matters in addition to the other factors I raised.

Good point.

As always, the Voice of Reason.

Cheers;
L

 

[MissTaken]

I agree that size matters in addition to the other factors I raised.

Good point.

As always, the Voice of Reason.

Cheers;
L

Dammit, Lance!

Maybe I just wanted to get into a rousing and reasonable debate with you.


You always spoil my fun

 

[Lancecastor]

I agree that size matters in addition to the other factors I raised.

Good point.

As always, the Voice of Reason.

Cheers;
L

That was me; just cleaned out my cookie folder.

Lance