D/s and co-dependency.

[FurryFury]

I don't consider myself co-dependent because, in part, I don't see co-dependency as a positive relationship thing.

It makes me think of The Giving Tree. You know, cut me down, kill me, sit on my stump use me up?

I'm not into that.

When I was with my toxic ex I thought I would die without him. Often I wanted to die while I was with him. To me that is co-dependent and unhealthy.

Now I'm with someone who I do depend on some. I think partners depend on one another in healthy ways in whatever type of relationship they are in.

However, I KNOW I can get by fine without him. I mean it would hurt. It's not what I want but I'd survive. I know he'd be okay too. That gives me security that really makes me happy.

 

[rida]

.... My mother was a lot like this. She would do things for me that I hadn't asked for and then considered me ungrateful when I tried to tactfully explain that she shouldn't have bothered. Mum would martyr herself to these things even after I tried to explain so that she wouldn't put herself out in future doing things I didn't want her to do. I am guilty of doing too much for people I care about and I often get taken advantage of because I'm gullible enough to believe the best of people until proven spectacularly wrong. I used to get so resentful but now I'm content to be true to who I am. I'd rather do too much than too little and be too generous rather than too stingy out of suspicion and cynicism.
....

Do we have the same mother? LOL
She always does everything. Her reason? because otherwise will not get done. But than gets all upset because people do not go out of their way for her nor feel thankful enough (in her eyes). I see it as not taking responsibility for her own actions nor her own happiness.

I too tend to do everything. But I've learned to only go out of my way if is not going to be detrimental to me or my family. And If I do go out of my way, it is not the other person/situation taking advantage of me, it is me wanting to.

The big difference between codependency and interdependency, to me, is that in a codependent situation, you are not taking responsibility for your own actions. Thus leading to resentment and unhappiness. Totally different than in an agreed upon D/s and M/s relationship, even where TPE is involved.

 

[BeachGurl2]

BeachGurl2 wrote...

It's so funny to me how often I hear people talk about how much a submissive needs a Dominant, but no one ever talks about how much a Dominant needs a submissive. Without a submissive, just who is a D-type supposed to dominate? His co-workers? His friends? People on the street? If he did that, then he'd just be a big bully and everyone would call him a controlling asshole. D/s can't really exist in a one-sided relationship, not and be a healthy relationship. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who will disagree, who will absolutely state that D/s should be one-sided emotionally. But if the players are those 24/7 types of Doms and subs, I have a very hard time believing the relationship will survive the long term.

Well said BG2. I have one question for you and I know you didn't mean this to be taken literally.
you wrote....

"....just who is a D-type supposed to dominate? His co-workers? His friends? People on the street? If he did that, then he'd just be a big bully and everyone would call him a controlling asshole.

right.......

..because not everyone who works for a D-type is submissive nor do they want to submit to that Dominant on the job, or where-ever else, since it isn't part of the day to day dynamics, unless of course he is their "boss" and they have to, as a matter of course.... BUT ...and I ask this jokingly...does this mean that your Dom is a bullying and controlling sorta guy? *winkin'

I feel that my guy really has to control his natural Dominance on the job, especially when he's working with a couple of idiots (his words) who just don't seem to get it.
Needless to say, he works better when he's supervising or managing.
I'm just so good at being his sounding board....argggh!

Partners in D/s should be "interdependent" on each other. One never giving more than they should nor the other taking just because they can....

Not at all, Cati. Someone who is an alpha personality, a naturally dominant person, is going to be that way in his life all the time. I was being a bit facetious with that, largely because I think that so many people see things in a very one-sided way where D/s is concerned, especially those who haven't experienced a relationship that was D/s outside the bedroom, too. And so was sort of exaggerating about how 'dominant' one might be who didn't have a submissive. The reverse could also be true - a submissive without a dominant could walk around submitting to everyone. (I don't mean in the way of pat from Pure's thread, so please don't anyone start up that discussion again.)

 

[cati]

I don't consider myself co-dependent because, in part, I don't see co-dependency as a positive relationship thing.

It makes me think of The Giving Tree. You know, cut me down, kill me, sit on my stump use me up?

I'm not into that.

When I was with my toxic ex I thought I would die without him. Often I wanted to die while I was with him. To me that is co-dependent and unhealthy.

Now I'm with someone who I do depend on some. I think partners depend on one another in healthy ways in whatever type of relationship they are in.

However, I KNOW I can get by fine without him. I mean it would hurt. It's not what I want but I'd survive. I know he'd be okay too. That gives me security that really makes me happy.

Thanks for your post FurryFury.

Of course "no-one" should be in a co-dependent relationship, but many don't know it and hopefully when they realize that they might be, should seek help in some form. I hope you didn't misunderstand my previous post and think I was condoning this sort of behaviour. Nothing good comes from co-dependency.

 

[TerragonSix]

More fodder to chew on....

The central concept here is that the "co-dependant" person takes it and understands, despite feeling hurt..perhaps waiting for "brownie points in heaven" or for the loved one to be magically healed through their persistant love and care that they give to their partners.
Often they have grown up in a negative emotional climate, due to illness, d by a male member of the family. Some of these women become Dommes, taking on the role of the abuser.

OK so, for those people who have endured emotional or psychological abuse growing up, is the D/s part of this stuff maybe therapeutic? That's where I'm coming from, in case anyone wondered.

Now, as you all know "abuse" comes in many shapes and forms and what is labelled abuse out there in the vanilla world may not be the case at all in D/s or the BDSM lifestyle.

I don't think I'm willing to do alot for my woman because I think I'm going to be magically healed or get brownie points into heaven. Being considerate and faithful to a person does not exactly mean 'co-dependent'. I treat my woman the way I treat her because I think that's the right thing to do. *shrugs*

When I was a kid, I was witness to abuse. Personally, I don't consider it a release by taking a crop and going to town. That's in the past, and I've moved on. I don't doubt that some dom/subs use it in that way.

In terms of therapeutic, my woman says she really likes being a sub because of stress release. Personally, I don't consider it therapeutic, I consider it fun.

 

[cati]

Twysted73 wrote...

Personally.....I rather enjoy an infusion of dependancy and addiction in my submissive.
I like to know that love and lust aren't the only things driving her need for me.
I like the thought that something "off" inside her mind acts as a pleasant back up for the other two.

You say the most interesting and intriguing things.

 

[FurryFury]

Thanks for your post FurryFury.

Of course "no-one" should be in a co-dependent relationship, but many don't know it and hopefully when they realize that they might be, should seek help in some form. I hope you didn't misunderstand my previous post and think I was condoning this sort of behaviour. Nothing good comes from co-dependency.

Not at all, I was just giving my own POV.

BTW, people (like the Moms mentioned above) who do stuff for you that you do not want and then expect to be praised for it, really piss me off. I'd like all of them to realize that the stuff they do for others, they really do for themselves and therefore it's selfish. Martyr types bug the poo out of me.

 

[RUbensBeautY]

Good morning....

I've been doing alot of reading lately and struggling with this issue for quite a while. Do any of you feel that your D/s relationship with your PYL might be co-dependant? I mean in the classic sense of co-dependency, where you are giving more than you should and they are giving you less than you feel is your due. That you often ignore your own RL problems to take care of your partner's issues.

- a situation where the healthy "give and take" necessary for an emotionally strong relationship is absent. ...but, that it's ok because you are a giving, supportive and understanding individual and you feel that your needs are just not as important as theirs.

Would co-dependency be expected as part of the normal functioning in a D/s or Master/slave relationship?

Do you think that many D/s relationships fail because they are co-dependent and one or the other partner just doesn't realize it or just doesn't care until it's too late and they wonder what went wrong?

I am a giving person. Usually the party that is emotionally deeper involved, more committed and investing more effort and time into almost all of my relations, pretty much regardless of their nature. It is just the way I am wired I guess, caring for people who are important to me, trying to help and protect them is a part of who I am. It has always been this way, perhaps not always consciously, but pretty much as long as I can remember. Sometimes it is a two way track, more often than not it isn't. But I don't feel motivated by measuring what I could gain in return in terms of affection, attention or the like. Sometimes it leads to people taking advantage of you, sometimes it leads to them regaining their faith in the goodness of people. I have spent my fair share of time analyzing this and in the end it all boils down to the fact that I enjoy giving and making people happy so what would be the point of banning a source of joy from my own life by forcing myself to modify my personality?

A long time ago, I have written and posted a BDSM type of story where the female dominant seemed to reflect much of this side of my personality. The responses have surprised me. From labeling her schizophrenic to unstable there was everything in between. For some reason being a giving and caring person and deeply into your partner seems to contradict most people's perception of a dominant and despite all those responses I have trouble understanding why such would be considered a contradiction. I believe that all of us are human in the first place. I consider dominant or submissive personality traits that influence many facets of life - beyond the purely sexual interests - but don't see them as the "one and only" personality trait to ultimately define a person. People are so much more complex than that.

I think a quite common mis-association people make is when linking a giving attitude to weakness just as associating submissiveness with being weak or needy.

Well, either that or I am just an unaware headstrong natural submissive overloaded with dominant fantasies.

Co-dependency or emotional dependency in terms of any relationship is undesirable when ... it makes for even one unhappy person in the equation. In my book at least. Non-functional is not desirable but what works for two or more people in terms of a fulfilling and well-balanced relationship from THEIR point of view, I am so not going to judge!

 

[madetotakeit]

Well said Ruby.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I am a giving person. Usually the party that is emotionally deeper involved, more committed and investing more effort and time into almost all of my relations, pretty much regardless of their nature. It is just the way I am wired I guess, caring for people who are important to me, trying to help and protect them is a part of who I am. It has always been this way, perhaps not always consciously, but pretty much as long as I can remember. Sometimes it is a two way track, more often than not it isn't. But I don't feel motivated by measuring what I could gain in return in terms of affection, attention or the like. Sometimes it leads to people taking advantage of you, sometimes it leads to them regaining their faith in the goodness of people. I have spent my fair share of time analyzing this and in the end it all boils down to the fact that I enjoy giving and making people happy so what would be the point of banning a source of joy from my own life by forcing myself to modify my personality?

A long time ago, I have written and posted a BDSM type of story where the female dominant seemed to reflect much of this side of my personality. The responses have surprised me. From labeling her schizophrenic to unstable there was everything in between. For some reason being a giving and caring person and deeply into your partner seems to contradict most people's perception of a dominant and despite all those responses I have trouble understanding why such would be considered a contradiction. I believe that all of us are human in the first place. I consider dominant or submissive personality traits that influence many facets of life - beyond the purely sexual interests - but don't see them as the "one and only" personality trait to ultimately define a person. People are so much more complex than that.

I think a quite common mis-association people make is when linking a giving attitude to weakness just as associating submissiveness with being weak or needy.

Well, either that or I am just an unaware headstrong natural submissive overloaded with dominant fantasies.

Co-dependency or emotional dependency in terms of any relationship is undesirable when ... it makes for even one unhappy person in the equation. In my book at least. Non-functional is not desirable but what works for two or more people in terms of a fulfilling and well-balanced relationship from THEIR point of view, I am so not going to judge!

We are not judges nor are we juries.. Well said Ruby ...

 

[Desdemona]

great post

I don't consider myself co-dependent because, in part, I don't see co-dependency as a positive relationship thing.

It makes me think of The Giving Tree. You know, cut me down, kill me, sit on my stump use me up?

I'm not into that.

When I was with my toxic ex I thought I would die without him. Often I wanted to die while I was with him. To me that is co-dependent and unhealthy.

Now I'm with someone who I do depend on some. I think partners depend on one another in healthy ways in whatever type of relationship they are in.

However, I KNOW I can get by fine without him. I mean it would hurt. It's not what I want but I'd survive. I know he'd be okay too. That gives me security that really makes me happy.

I couldn't say it better. There is a big difference in healthy D/s and unhealthy co-dependancy where one of the parties gets drained/used up or one is secretly controlling/manipulating the other by doing people pleasing behaviors while secretly resenting it. I'm not judging what works for individuals. If you're happy in your relationship and it works, then that's not unhealthy co-dependance. But, if you give, give, give and secretly resent it, there's a problem.

 

[cati]

BeachGurl2wrote:

The reverse could also be true - a submissive without a dominant could walk around submitting to everyone. (I don't mean in the way of pat from Pure's thread, so please don't anyone start up that discussion again.)
__________________

I will never venture in Pat's direction again, so don't you worry.

 

[cati]

Thanks to everyone for their great replies !

 

[RUbensBeautY]

BeachGurl2wrote:

The reverse could also be true - a submissive without a dominant could walk around submitting to everyone. (I don't mean in the way of pat from Pure's thread, so please don't anyone start up that discussion again.)
__________________

I will never venture in Pat's direction again, so don't you worry.

I so didn't need to read that line! lol

Now my mind will work on over drive again until reasoning myself out of the new doubts raising their ugly heads.

 

[cati]

Seriously some do, especially if there are strong Dominants in the room. Their need to please is so great, that they know no other way. It's so annoying and sad to watch.

Is there an icon for being smacked about the head?

 

[BeachGurl2]

I so didn't need to read that line! lol

Now my mind will work on over drive again until reasoning myself out of the new doubts raising their ugly heads.

You know, it's hard to explain via this medium just what I mean by what I said, and I think it's equally hard for others to explain their view as well, which is why the other thread has had such a hard time. As a natural service sub - I'm a nurturer and a care taker naturally with everyone - it's very hard to explain the difference when I'm talking about submitting versus serving. And I KNOW others have that same difficulty. I struggle with it all the time - am I just too submissive to everyone or am I a nurturer, etc. I even have difficulty with it in disciplining my teenage daughter - am I a pushover because I'm too submissive or because I'm just a bad disciplinarian? Should I have confronted that person who pushed in line ahead of me or is it okay that I just let it happen? Personally, I pick my battles. And I'm okay with that. If someone else sees me as too passive in some instances, that's okay because I probably see them as too passive in some, too. I do what personally works for me and let the rest go. Even in a new relationship, I just am submissive, so it's a fine line between standing up for myself and submitting.

What was my point again? Oh yeah, don't let the doubts get you. My philosophy is to do what works for me. I'm unattached. I've been unattached for the last 2+ years. I'm sure there's a reason for that. But I don't let it get to me anymore. I just do what it is that I do. If someone else doesn't like me because of it, I can't change who I am to please them. If I find someone who likes me for me, then great. For the most part, I'm apparently too much work for someone else. No worries. That's just how life works.

 

[cati]

I behave very differently towards someone that I sense is a strong Dominant, I can't help it. I think it's part of my submissive makeup. If I don't sense anything Domly about that person, then I naturally treat them as regular Joe's. If the person is an idiot and calls himself a Dom because he needs to, then I won't allow myself to feel any sort of respect at all, no matter what the title.

BG2... I was alone for a million years before I met my husband/Master, there's no hurry...shoot.

 

[Pure]

comments on the concept of 'co dependency'

wiki is helpful, here.

Codependence (or codependency) is a popular psychology concept popularized by Twelve-Step program advocates. A "codependent" is loosely defined as someone who exhibits too much, and often inappropriate, caring for persons who depend on him or her.

A "codependent" is one side of a relationship between mutually needy people. The dependent, or obviously needy party(s) may have emotional, physical, financial difficulties, or addictions they seemingly are unable to surmount. The "codependent" party exhibits behaviour which controls, makes excuses for, pities, and takes other actions to perpetuate the obviously needy party's condition, because of their desire to be needed and fear of doing anything that would change the relationship.

Symptoms

Symptoms of codependence are controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, problems with intimacy, excessive caretaking, hypervigilance or physical illness related to stress. Codependence is often accompanied by clinical depression, as the codependent person succumbs to feelings of frustration or sadness over his or her inability to improve the situation.

===

It's obvious that co-dependence is not simple mutual dependence or mutual reliance.

So the question is not, "are some subs too dependent?" nor even 'do some subs and dom/mes depend too much on each other'.

The question about 'co dependence' would generally apply to the dom or domme [PYL]. He or she would be a pathological or compulsive caregiver.**

But, as the wiki article suggests, this is a value judgement of the AA-type folks. They say, "if you spend too much effort looking out for your alcoholic spouse you are co dependent." or a similar term applies, 'you are an enabler.' But their idea of "too much" is not necessarily objectively valid.

My master takes care of me. Is it done 'in a pathological way'? No, I don't think so. How does one tell? She spends too much time on it? How do you judge that.?

I think what the AA folks would say is, Start with the primary pathologically affected person--e.g. the alcoholic. So to assess my Master's possible problem, we have to look at pure. IF we could say, pure, the slave, has 'pathologicaI submission' and thus pathologically depends on his Master, that would be the starting point. In simple terms, Is pure ill?

IF it's established that pure is ill, then, according to the AA line, my master who takes care of me a lot would be 'co dependent,' i.e. ill secondarily. Yet this approach leaves fundamental questions unanswered: In AA terms, are they saying ALL help a spouse gives an alcoholic is harmful. Is the normal loving spouse, automatically, a 'co dependent'?

I have a great mistrust of these terms and the value framework that is implied.
---
**Leaving aside such cases as the alcoholic dom/me, cared for my the sub.

 

[FurryFury]

I found the term an easy concept to understand because most of my life was filled with co-dependent people. So it brought an "Aha" moment to me and clicked into place.

*shrug*

 

[Desdemona]

12 step programs

Hi my name is des. I'm a submissive. I admit that I have no power over my desire for bdsm. OK, could't help myself. heh

Come on... lets don't go down the 12 step co-dependancy bunny trail. 12 step programs are for people with addictions and for the people who are affected by them. There is a place in the world for that.

Co-dependancy isn't just for the 12 steppers. It's also recognized in the mental health field as a problem. They may code it as something else for reimbursement, but I do hear the psych folks talking about it at work sometimes when I make rounds up on the psych unit (as I'm busily trying to get out of there as fast as possible before they decide to lock me up in a padded room! ).

I think it's valid to discuss whether or not sometimes D/s relationships cross the line into unhealthy behavior. For some, there may be elements of co-dependancy. Just because we're kinksters, it doesn't make us immune to the issues that occur in the vanilla world between people. I also think the term co-dependant could be applied to either party in our relationships and maybe even to both if the relationship is particularly unhealthy.

But, to go back to my initial thought from yesterday, as long as neither party is secretly harboring resentments about their level of giving or caretaking within the relationship, I think things are probably ok. The unhealthy behavior comes when you consistently do things in order to control another person's response... to get love, attention etc. While this behavior is going on, there is generally an underlying resentment.

If you do something for your partner that you don't want to do, but you don't resent it, and it makes you happy to do that for them, then how can that be bad? If you each give to the other, perhaps in different ways, how can that be bad?

Ex: the other day when I got home from work, I was tired and had worked late. It had been a bad day at the hospital. T needed to go do a favor for a friend and it involved a 40 minute drive to somewhere neither of us have been. There was a time element involved and it had to be done that evening. He wanted me to go with him and read the directions while he drove. We would spend time together, grab dinner out, etc. Frankly, I didn't feel like going and I didn't want to go when he told me about the trip. I knew it would keep me out past my work night bedtime and I would be more tired the next day. I was honest with T about not wanting to go.

T told me it was my option. It would be ok if I didn't go; he's a grown up and understood how bad my day was and that I was tired. There would have been no resentment on his part. We had some time before he needed to leave, so I stretched out on the bed and rested. Ultimately, I chose to go with him. I went with the full knowledge that I would be sleep deprived (which I hate) the next day at work. As usual, there were glitches and we worked together to deal wtih them. We got home way later than planned because of several different Murphy's law issues.

Now, here's my point. If I had done this in an effort to get love, affection or some other thing from T, resented going while quietly steaming about it, and/or secretly felt entitled to some form of reciprocation or engaged in some sort of passive/aggressive behavior, then maybe it wasn't a healthy thing for me to do. If I freely chose to do this, enjoyed our time together and held no resentments, etc, then maybe it was a healthy thing to do.

So I went. I was sleep deprived the next day. Big deal. Sometimes in relationships, you go out of your way to help your partner. Sometimes, he goes out of his way to help me with things too. That doesn't make either of us co-dependant. It's unexpressed emotional baggage attached to going out of your way for your partner that would make it co-dependant in this scenario.

YMMV

 

[intothewoods]

More fodder to chew on....

The central concept here is that the "co-dependant" person takes it and understands, despite feeling hurt..perhaps waiting for "brownie points in heaven" or for the loved one to be magically healed through their persistant love and care that they give to their partners.
Often they have grown up in a negative emotional climate, due to illness, addiction, anger or other problems. Being loyal to a fault, they rationalize a loved ones disrespectful behaviour by making excuses for them saying..."he doesn't mean it" or..."she has had such an awful childhood"... etc. etc.

I think what I'm getting at is this.... alot of people (not all, mind you, but many) that I have met through groups or play parties have "issues". Some have found the "play" part therapeutic, consenting to some sort of physical "act" in order to re-enact the abuse they received as a child, teen, adult, whenever the abuse may have occurred. (I use the term abuse very lightly here.)
In severe cases rape is a big big issue as well as incestuous acts committed by a male member of the family. Some of these women become Dommes, taking on the role of the abuser.

OK so, for those people who have endured emotional or psychological abuse growing up, is the D/s part of this stuff maybe therapeutic? That's where I'm coming from, in case anyone wondered.

Now, as you all know "abuse" comes in many shapes and forms and what is labelled abuse out there in the vanilla world may not be the case at all in D/s or the BDSM lifestyle.

My question to you is....is this really true? Isn't a spade still a spade?

When I first learned of D/s it was through the Excite chat rooms. I wandered into a submissive room one day and thought how comfortable I felt, how nice everyone was...I was just like the other women there (well some of them *s)
So here I am 10 years later. I'm not that same person anymore. Id like to think I've grown wiser and become more assertive...well... a bit wiser about being submissive.
So, I'm guessing that all of this has helped open my eyes to the kind of woman I am, have been...and likely will be in the future. I just need some polish..chuckles.

It's only therapeutic if you're not keeping score. If you submit/serve/whatever and feel at peace. If you're doing all this and resenting your partner, you're not in a healthy situation.

 

[Pure]

note on des

12 step programs

Hi my name is des. I'm a submissive. I

nice posting, des! i read it as saying we should NOT overapply the 'addiction' or 'alcoholism'[according to AA] model.

this line sounds right:
as long as neither party is secretly harboring resentments about their level of giving or caretaking

for further clarity, i'd add, re SM and M/s relationships, that the DEGREE of submission would NOT be an indicator of pathology. rather one would look to see probs within the degree the two people are trying to live in their respective roles.

similarly, if my master does *lots and lots* of things for me, demands precise obedience, etc, that does not make her "co dependent". no observer can say, based on that alone, " lots and lots sounds like *too much*; though just lots might be ok. so i conclude [the observer continues] there is pathology; i.e. pure's M shows the dreaded codependence."

 

[cati]

Now, here's my point. If I had done this in an effort to get love, affection or some other thing from T, resented going while quietly steaming about it, and/or secretly felt entitled to some form of reciprocation or engaged in some sort of passive/aggressive behavior, then maybe it wasn't a healthy thing for me to do. If I freely chose to do this, enjoyed our time together and held no resentments, etc, then maybe it was a healthy thing to do.


Des you said it perfectly..Thanks loads.

 

[FurryFury]

Great post!

Hi my name is des. I'm a submissive. I admit that I have no power over my desire for bdsm. OK, could't help myself. heh

Come on... lets don't go down the 12 step co-dependancy bunny trail. 12 step programs are for people with addictions and for the people who are affected by them. There is a place in the world for that.

Co-dependancy isn't just for the 12 steppers. It's also recognized in the mental health field as a problem. They may code it as something else for reimbursement, but I do hear the psych folks talking about it at work sometimes when I make rounds up on the psych unit (as I'm busily trying to get out of there as fast as possible before they decide to lock me up in a padded room! ).

I think it's valid to discuss whether or not sometimes D/s relationships cross the line into unhealthy behavior. For some, there may be elements of co-dependancy. Just because we're kinksters, it doesn't make us immune to the issues that occur in the vanilla world between people. I also think the term co-dependant could be applied to either party in our relationships and maybe even to both if the relationship is particularly unhealthy.

But, to go back to my initial thought from yesterday, as long as neither party is secretly harboring resentments about their level of giving or caretaking within the relationship, I think things are probably ok. The unhealthy behavior comes when you consistently do things in order to control another person's response... to get love, attention etc. While this behavior is going on, there is generally an underlying resentment.

If you do something for your partner that you don't want to do, but you don't resent it, and it makes you happy to do that for them, then how can that be bad? If you each give to the other, perhaps in different ways, how can that be bad?

Ex: the other day when I got home from work, I was tired and had worked late. It had been a bad day at the hospital. T needed to go do a favor for a friend and it involved a 40 minute drive to somewhere neither of us have been. There was a time element involved and it had to be done that evening. He wanted me to go with him and read the directions while he drove. We would spend time together, grab dinner out, etc. Frankly, I didn't feel like going and I didn't want to go when he told me about the trip. I knew it would keep me out past my work night bedtime and I would be more tired the next day. I was honest with T about not wanting to go.

T told me it was my option. It would be ok if I didn't go; he's a grown up and understood how bad my day was and that I was tired. There would have been no resentment on his part. We had some time before he needed to leave, so I stretched out on the bed and rested. Ultimately, I chose to go with him. I went with the full knowledge that I would be sleep deprived (which I hate) the next day at work. As usual, there were glitches and we worked together to deal wtih them. We got home way later than planned because of several different Murphy's law issues.

Now, here's my point. If I had done this in an effort to get love, affection or some other thing from T, resented going while quietly steaming about it, and/or secretly felt entitled to some form of reciprocation or engaged in some sort of passive/aggressive behavior, then maybe it wasn't a healthy thing for me to do. If I freely chose to do this, enjoyed our time together and held no resentments, etc, then maybe it was a healthy thing to do.

So I went. I was sleep deprived the next day. Big deal. Sometimes in relationships, you go out of your way to help your partner. Sometimes, he goes out of his way to help me with things too. That doesn't make either of us co-dependant. It's unexpressed emotional baggage attached to going out of your way for your partner that would make it co-dependant in this scenario.

YMMV

 

[deviantdiva]

Hi cati,

I think you ask a very valid question here. But one thing I'm a little confused about, is based on the quotes from the article you shared, is the co-dependent the dominant (i.e. person who wants to control) or the submissive? From the reading, it almost sounds like codependency is more of an issue for the person who wants to be in charge of the relationship.

this piece is from a larger article at www.allaboutlifechallenges.org/Codependency.htm

Codependency - What is it?

Codependency is when a person has a strong desire to control people around them, including their spouse, children or co-workers. Codependents believe they are somehow more capable than others, who need their direction or suggestions to fulfill tasks they are responsible to complete. They feel compassion for people who may be hurting and feel they should be the one to help them. Codependent people give of their time, emotions, finances, and other resources. They have a very difficult time saying "no" to any requests made of them.

Codependency - A Matter of Control

Codependency, for others, doesn't express itself in a desire to control, but instead, in the need to be controlled by others. Because it is nearly impossible for Codependents to say "no" to people, they may find themselves the victims in physically and emotionally abusive relationships. They believe that if they can be good enough, or loving enough, they can change the other person's behavior. They sometimes blame themselves for the abusive behavior: "If only I had not forgotten to do the dishes, he would not have had to hit me."

Codependency causes internal struggles with the opinions of others. Codependents may make decisions based on what they think other people want them to do. While they may believe that their motive for helping people is compassion, in reality they are doing it because they want love or approval. They may come to recognize the underlying nature of their behavior when they become hurt or angry at people they have helped who didn't return the same amount of help, love, or appreciation when they themselves were in need. They have difficulty understanding that instead of helping others by providing things they need, they may actually be hurting them by creating a dependent relationship.
____________

I think this is more what I was getting at.