D/s and co-dependency.

[cati]

Hi deviantdiva...

As far as I know, the article isn't D/s related, but you can see where there might a few similarities. I've noticed the author mentions several types of "co-dependents". While some seem manipulating others seem enabling.

Codependency, for others, doesn't express itself in a desire to control, but instead, in the need to be controlled by others. Because it is nearly impossible for Codependents to say "no" to people, they may find themselves the victims in physically and emotionally abusive relationships.

A co-dependent person who has an alcoholic husband or wife for example might say "ok Hon, you can drink but I'm only going to allow you have two bottles of beer a day" He or she might give them the money for the beer as well. They feel they are in control of their partners drinking and and that they are helping them, but actually they are enabling them to continue their drinking.

Clear as mud....

 

[Desdemona]

I see your points.

12 step programs

Hi my name is des. I'm a submissive. I

nice posting, des! i read it as saying we should NOT overapply the 'addiction' or 'alcoholism'[according to AA] model.

this line sounds right:
as long as neither party is secretly harboring resentments about their level of giving or caretaking

for further clarity, i'd add, re SM and M/s relationships, that the DEGREE of submission would NOT be an indicator of pathology. rather one would look to see probs within the degree the two people are trying to live in their respective roles.

similarly, if my master does *lots and lots* of things for me, demands precise obedience, etc, that does not make her "co dependent". no observer can say, based on that alone, " lots and lots sounds like *too much*; though just lots might be ok. so i conclude [the observer continues] there is pathology; i.e. pure's M shows the dreaded codependence."

Thanks for clarifying. I think I was still sleep deprived when I read earlier.

 

[Pure]

note to deviantd

ddFrom the reading, it almost sounds like codependency is more of an issue for the person who wants to be in charge of the relationship.

that is my conclusion also. see my post #43, above. unless the dom/me or master is afflicted in some way-- alcoholism, diabetes, etc.-- i see no obvious way for the sub or "pyl" to be the 'codependent' (some examples are given in the thread on service. http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=597839 )

 

[Desdemona]

a thought

I think that in order for a relationship with a codependant person to survive, there is some sort of pathology in both parties. It may be minor, but I think there's a problem that allows the other to ignore or tolerate the codependant partner's behavior. Also, it's rarely obvious to the partner. Codependancy is insidious.

 

[Pure]

i agree des. that's the AA view. there is an alcoholic with his probs (a dependent); with him is a partner who "cares" too much and in the wrong way, and keeps unwittingly 'feeding' the situation. this one is the co dependent. there is, so to say, a co dependent (usually it would be the dom/me IF there's a problem of pathological dependence in the sub) and an apparent dependant, or as the psychologists say, an I. P. (identified patient).

the problem however is in stating what's wrong with the situation of a caregiver and an alchoholic. how much is 'too much.' that's when we have to say, that there have to be other probs such as resentment, depression, etc for us to say the NON alcoholic [non IP] is 'co dependent'.

 

[FurryFury]

I think that in order for a relationship with a codependant person to survive, there is some sort of pathology in both parties. It may be minor, but I think there's a problem that allows the other to ignore or tolerate the codependant partner's behavior. Also, it's rarely obvious to the partner. Codependancy is insidious.

I totally agree with you 100%!

 

[cati]

Me too...

 

[Fauna]

Synergy

• meaning working together, refers to the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents. It is originally a scientific term.
• A mutually advantageous conjunction where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
• A dynamic state in which combined action is favored over the sum of individual component actions.

definition from Wikipedia

This is how I see the D/s & M/s relationships. We are all giving and receiving, and while it may appear we are giving and receiving different amounts, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts."

I can't be a Domme without a sub. I can be a Domme in my head all I want, but I need someone to receive what I a giving. I'm a Sadist, and I can think all the thoughts I want, but I need the energy of a masochist to bring it all to life.

 

[cati]

Desdemona:

I think that in order for a relationship with a codependant person to survive, there is some sort of pathology in both parties. It may be minor, but I think there's a problem that allows the other to ignore or tolerate the codependant partner's behavior. Also, it's rarely obvious to the partner. Codependancy is insidious.

I have to agree with you there Des.

 

[Sir Victor]

Hi deviantdiva...

As far as I know, the article isn't D/s related, but you can see where there might a few similarities. I've noticed the author mentions several types of "co-dependents". While some seem manipulating others seem enabling.

Codependency, for others, doesn't express itself in a desire to control, but instead, in the need to be controlled by others. Because it is nearly impossible for Codependents to say "no" to people, they may find themselves the victims in physically and emotionally abusive relationships.

Interesting topic cati.

Codependency in general is simply when two people with psychological, shall we say, "issues" match up in such a way that they feed on each other's issue. The wounded bird, matches the healer, however when the wounds are deeply psychological they usually do not heal and most often the healer becomes worn and tired. There are several recognized codependent matches that are covered in this excellent book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0345418204/ref=sib_dp_pop_toc?ie=UTF8&p=S00G#reader-link

One party is usually taken advantage of in a codependent relationship, but it can go either way. A lazy PYL that is allowed to be lazy can actually take advantage of a caring Dom/Master, and obviously the opposite can also happen. Balance is key in relationships, caring, respect, and growth are important in my opinion.

 

[twysted73]

Twysted73 wrote...

Personally.....I rather enjoy an infusion of dependancy and addiction in my submissive.
I like to know that love and lust aren't the only things driving her need for me.
I like the thought that something "off" inside her mind acts as a pleasant back up for the other two.

You say the most interesting and intriguing things.

~ Likewise.