Disappointments

[SierraMoon]

ok, i guess i will add my 2 cents to the discussion...

Disappointments to me, are a fact of life. Everyone has them, within BDSM or vanilla relationships. You need to roll with the punches, and come out on the other side a stronger person.

This past weekend, i played with my Dom (first time in 2 months), and there were certain things that i was hoping we would do, and i told him about them. He said he would take them into consideration. Well, Sat. came around, and we played.. hard. During one of our breaks, i asked him if he had decided to incorporate the things i had mentioned, and he said that was for him to know, and me to find out.
Well, as it turned out, we did not do 1 of the things that i had asked. Was i disappointed? definately. Did i question him on it? No. i stated my wishes, and it was his prerogative whether to incorporate them or not. He chose not to. He may use my suggestions next time, he may not.
Life goes on.
Bottom line... i had a fantastic time with what we did do, and i am satisfied with it, and, i'm also proud of myself for taking the disappointment in stride, and not letting it get to me.

as i said.. just my 2 cents worth.. take it or leave it!

 

[~Dream~]

WELL MAYBE NOT ALWAYS respectful..

originally posted by Zipman :
did not call your Dom ludicrous. My point was and is that I feel that allowing a sub to question something repeatedly is ludicrous. That is my viewpoint. If your Dom chooses this type of dynamic and it works for you that is fine. Congratulations. I would not put up with it. You and others on this board (like artful's Dream) have a different opinion on this than I do. That's all. I stand by the post I made and my opinion on this subject. If a sub continually questions her Dom, it is indicative of other issues, around trust and submission. I am not talking about asking a question for knowledge or because they don't understand something. I am talking about questioning and struggling with the simplest of commands and concepts.


** TRUE ,I Do NOt always agree with Zip's post,as I resent the fact that He feels I am a fake but as with all other things ,thats only HIS OPINION .. Not the truth ,so life DOES go on.. I have been as disrespectful to him at times as I feel He has been to me and for that I'd like to apologize and Not that it's really anyone's business but JUST to clarify an issue ..
" I am talking about questioning and struggling with the simplest of commands and concepts."*Well ,I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with obeying simple commands or concepts which my Master brings forth to me ,so I know I have NO othe 'issues' that Zipman speaks of .. MY Questions were clearly called for and WILL beasked again if the need arises... that being said ,he can choose to accept my apology or like others ignore it ,matters not to me ,I'll still continue to post and will try harder to give him just as much respect as is given unto me ,thats all anyone can really ask ...

UNDA? you "STILL" rock sweety!!

 

[zipman]

Re: WELL MAYBE NOT ALWAYS respectful..

** TRUE ,I Do NOt always agree with Zip's post,as I resent the fact that He feels I am a fake but as with all other things ,thats only HIS OPINION .. Not the truth ,so life DOES go on.. I have been as disrespectful to him at times as I feel He has been to me and for that I'd like to apologize and Not that it's really anyone's business but JUST to clarify an issue ..

I think there is a difference between what someone posts and whether or not you resent them (or like them). I post and respond to posts based on what I think, not on my opinion of people. I stated before that I said to you in a pm that "you talk a good game." Since you keep bringing it up publicly, here's why I wrote that. I have seen you say one thing and then do another. An example, you talk about how well you take Artful's directions and that you respect him. You posted that he asked you to not have a long sig so people wouldn't go after you about it. Did you listen to him? I still see you with long sigs. That to me is being disrespectful to your master. This is an example of saying one thing (how much you respect your master and obey him) and doing the opposite (disobeying his command). Perhaps he didn't command you to do it, and he only asked you or suggested it. Well, if people go after you because of it, and it bothers your master, why wouldn't you just keep your sig small. That would show that you love and respect your master more than all the flashing hearts and fluffy words that are in your sig. As far as your apology, Thank you, but there is no need for it. Your being disrespectful to me and the other Dom/mes here is more of an affront to your master than it is to me.

" I am talking about questioning and struggling with the simplest of commands and concepts."*Well ,I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with obeying simple commands or concepts which my Master brings forth to me ,so I know I have NO othe 'issues' that Zipman speaks of .. MY Questions were clearly called for and WILL beasked again if the need arises... that being said ,he can choose to accept my apology or like others ignore it ,matters not to me ,I'll still continue to post and will try harder to give him just as much respect as is given unto me ,thats all anyone can really ask ...

Only you and your Master know whether or not your questions were called for. I have no way of knowing nor do I particularly care. As for respect, I try and treat everyone with respect. For the most part, I think I am pretty successful at it. But if I am not respectful, it is clear who I am doing it to. I never make blanket statements about all subs.

I think you do not understand me Dream. I am not here for a popularity contest. Whether or not I like you has no bearing on whether or not I am going to agree with your posts or point out what I see as contradictions. I do not hate you, any more than I likeyou. You are just another member of this forum who I will try and treat with respect

 

[Ebonyfire]

I have no desire to continue to beat this issue to death. In my original post, just before the I discussed the questions that dissapointments cause me, I said the following:



I think this clearly indicates that I don't blame my subs for my disappointments, but that I am self critical and question my own domming to see if her actions were my fault. While I thought that I was very clear, if you did not "get" my meaning, then I understand why you chose the "tone" that you did.

I appreciate your taking the time to analyze what you wrote and to see where your posts were insulting. There are a few other points that I would like to make.

When you quote my words and discuss the meaning, I think it is reasonable to assume that the entire thing is being directed towards me. I believe this is how most people would take it. I wouldn't expect someone to mention my name in every sentence for me to think a post was directed towards me.


I still do not believe I read anything into your posts that wasn't there. I think you were trying to make a point at my expense. I think you took parts of my post and attributed motivations to them and then wrongly speculated on why I wasn't more patient or having successful relationships.


You're right, I don't. I don't think many other people will be overly receptive to it either. Lecturing at people is not the most productive way of having a discussion as it is often perceived as being confontational or condescending. This is how I take it.





I did not call your Dom ludicrous. My point was and is that I feel that allowing a sub to question something repeatedly is ludicrous. That is my viewpoint. If your Dom chooses this type of dynamic and it works for you that is fine. Congratulations. I would not put up with it. You and others on this board (like artful's Dream) have a different opinion on this than I do. That's all. I stand by the post I made and my opinion on this subject. If a sub continually questions her Dom, it is indicative of other issues, around trust and submission. I am not talking about asking a question for knowledge or because they don't understand something. I am talking about questioning and struggling with the simplest of commands and concepts. Some subs get into BDSM for the wrong reasons. Perhaps they feel that they need something in their lives, many people turn to religion in much the same way. Perhaps they like the romaticized notion of submitting, and then when it comes time to do it, they struggle with the actual commands they are given. You state with all your experience you have not encountered this. Well, I have seen this.

I have disagreed with more than a few things that you have stated on these boards. Among those are statements like most subs have the emotional maturity of a 12 year old and that respect should not play a part in BDSM relationships. Couple the fact that I disagree with you with your lecturing and I'm sure that you can understand why I reacted the way I did. I feel that you use your research and writing to try and establish yourself as some kind of authority on the subject. I just post my opinions on subjects based on my experience.

And again UCE, I have to disagree you. The point I was trying to make and which I thought was very clear was that I didn't tell you that you shouldn't post such things. What I said and which I feel does require repeating is that when you post a very judgemental resonse to a Dom's post (mine) where the Dom voiced his uncertainties might make others less apt to post. I think admitting uncertainties and self-doubt are healthy. If a sub did that, I would respect their doubts and not attack them for it. And yes, that is exactly what you did. I can handle my subs questions. I encourage my subs to ask questions and I often force the issue to ensure that we have good communication. You are not my sub. You're a member fo this board to me, that's all. I don't judge questions differently here and I would have your post attacking and judgemental whether you were a sub, a switch or a Dom/me.

I think another mistake that you have made is that you are viewing my words through your particular dynamic and not the one that I am writing from. You stated something about you being a "radial submissive slave" forgive me if I misquoted the term you are using. I pratice BDSM to a different degree. BDSM is limited to the bedroom for me, and it is usually done with someone with whom I am engaged in a monogamous relationship. I think you may have viewed my post as directly applying to your situation, which may require a much higher degree of patience. I do not know, so I won't speculate on it.

There were a lot of things that I disagreed with in your post UCE. But to write novels on each post is not my style, nor my desire. The bottom line is that you can post however you want on this board UCE, just as I will. I think a lot depends on what you want to get out of this board. Obviously, you're posting style puts some people off as does your method of interacting with them. Make your own choices, and live with them.

Since the same kind of comments have been directed to Me in the past, I must ditto the eloquent zipman.

Ebony

 

[~Dream~]

Re;Zip

QUOTE]Originally posted by zipman7
I think there is a difference between what someone posts and whether or not you resent them (or like them). I post and respond to posts based on what I think, not on my opinion of people. I stated before that I said to you in a pm that "you talk a good game." Since you keep bringing it up publicly, here's why I wrote that. I have seen you say one thing and then do another. An example, you talk about how well you take Artful's directions and that you respect him. You posted that he asked you to not have a long sig so people wouldn't go after you about it. Did you listen to him? I still see you with long sigs. That to me is being disrespectful to your master. This is an example of saying one thing (how much you respect your master and obey him) and doing the opposite (disobeying his command). Perhaps he didn't command you to do it, and he only asked you or suggested it. Well, if people go after you because of it, and it bothers your master, why wouldn't you just keep your sig small. That would show that you love and respect your master more than all the flashing hearts and fluffy words that are in your sig. As far as your apology, Thank you, but there is no need for it. Your being disrespectful to me and the other Dom/mes here is more of an affront to your master than it is to me.



Only you and your Master know whether or not your questions were called for. I have no way of knowing nor do I particularly care. As for respect, I try and treat everyone with respect. For the most part, I think I am pretty successful at it. But if I am not respectful, it is clear who I am doing it to. I never make blanket statements about all subs.

I think you do not understand me Dream. I am not here for a popularity contest. Whether or not I like you has no bearing on whether or not I am going to agree with your posts or point out what I see as contradictions. I do not hate you, any more than I likeyou. You are just another member of this forum who I will try and treat with respect [/QUOTE]

__________________

that IS TRUE Zip ,ONLY Master and I know and really we are the only ones who need to ,and I also believe you do not understand me at all either ,DITTO.. and tho I may post some contradictions from time to time ,its just like some other people I know who also have mood swings or perhaps change their mind or opinion on something as I consider myself an open-minded person .
Thats really all you or ANYBODY else is on this forum to me is a member of the forum as you just said except for my love (my Master)and some of my very good friends..but I am happy you will try to treat me with respect as I deserve to be treated also.
As for my sigs I am allowed to post freely(Sorry peole cant HANDLE displays of love but oh well )and I do not remember ever posting that Master asked me to change mine at all(must have slipped my mind ) but I have ALWAYS changed ANYTHING HE has recquested of me ,period ..,I am responsible toward my Own actions and it does NOT reflect on my Master at all,that is MERELY YOUR opinion,my Master is PROUD TO have me for his slave as He should be ,I have come very very far in quite a short time,If ever disrespect has been shown to other Doms it has either been apologized for or" well-deserved ",rest assured JMHO ,1 THAT OWN have "outside' of my Master

 

[zipman]

Re: Re;Zip

[B<snip>
As for my sigs I am allowed to post freely(Sorry peole cant HANDLE displays of love but oh well )and I do not remember ever posting that Master asked me to change mine at all(must have slipped my mind ) but I have ALWAYS changed ANYTHING HE has recquested of me ,period ..,I am responsible toward my Own actions and it does NOT reflect on my Master at all,that is MERELY YOUR opinion,my Master is PROUD TO have me for his slave as He should be ,I have come very very far in quite a short time,If ever disrespect has been shown to other Doms it has either been apologized for or" well-deserved ",rest assured JMHO ,1 THAT OWN have "outside' of my Master [/B]

Dream, I did think that I saw a post where you said that Artful asked you to make your sig line smaller after Lance commented on it. If I was mistaken then I apologize.

I agree with you when you state that you are responsible for your own actions but I disagree with you when you state that it does not reflect on Artful. Of course it does. You two have decided to have an Online relationship that is open for the whole forum to see. Therefore, if you do something wrong, speak to others disrespectfully, then people are going to look at Artful and say to themsleves "I can't believe he lets her do that." That is human nature, it may not be right, but I assure you it has and will continue to happen.

If I went to a BDSM party and my sub was not behaving well, everyone there would look at me and judge me by her actions. They might say she is a bad sub. They might also say that I am a bad Dom as I am not controlling her behavior effectively.

Artful has given you a gift in that he has allowed you to be your own person online, and ask and post however you want to. But there is a price that he has to pay for it. Again, it may not be fair, but it does happen. Just think about it.

 

[Ebonyfire]

displays of love?

QUOTE]Originally posted by zipman7
As for my sigs I am allowed to post freely(Sorry peole cant HANDLE displays of love but oh well )

I must jump in here.

Dream, your signature lines are just displays.. not of love, but of childish self-indulgence.

Love demands sacrifice and thinking of others. If you were "so much in love" with your Master you would say it LESS and display it MORE, in ways that have meaning. Posting it with hearts and flowers mean nothing. It is your actions that count.

Right now, you actions speak much louder than you words, and they DO NOT speak of love.

Ebony

 

[UCE]

Well Zipman,

Your response tells me personally that you are narrowminded, defensive, and insecure. With these traits, you can do bedroom dominance but you'd really hurt a submissive if you ever tried 24/7.

It just seems so childish to me that a supposed "dominant" would act like such a hostile little boy (I REFUSE to believe you, UCE!) in response to a well-meant analytical post.

Well, I'm tired of playing patient mommy with you. Once is enough. Everything I said about my tone was true. I bent over backwards in that long post that took so much effort trying to understand just where they hell you got off being so insulting. Thank you for proving to me once again (i've run into your spoiled little boy playing dominant times hundreds of times before, Zip) that extending effort and time on someone like you is a very foolish thing to do. I'll try to remember this when the next clown in dominant's clothing comes around.

(shaking head in disgust)

*Plonk!*

 

[Ebonyfire]

Well Zipman,

Your response tells me personally that you are narrowminded, defensive, and insecure. With these traits, you can do bedroom dominance but you'd really hurt a submissive if you ever tried 24/7.

It just seems so childish to me that a supposed "dominant" would act like such a hostile little boy (I REFUSE to believe you, UCE!) in response to a well-meant analytical post.

Well, I'm tired of playing patient mommy with you. Once is enough. Everything I said about my tone was true. I bent over backwards in that long post that took so much effort trying to understand just where they hell you got off being so insulting. Thank you for proving to me once again (i've run into your spoiled little boy playing dominant times hundreds of times before, Zip) that extending effort and time on someone like you is a very foolish thing to do. I'll try to remember this when the next clown in dominant's clothing comes around.

(shaking head in disgust)

*Plonk!*

With all due respect UCE, you are the one out of line. What do you do make it up as you go along? You seem to get defensive when anyone asks you to back up your so-called "facts", or even has the balls to ask you for clarification.

By the way, YOUR hostility is showing.


Ebony

 

[zipman]

Well Zipman,

Your response tells me personally that you are narrowminded, defensive, and insecure. With these traits, you can do bedroom dominance but you'd really hurt a submissive if you ever tried 24/7.

It just seems so childish to me that a supposed "dominant" would act like such a hostile little boy (I REFUSE to believe you, UCE!) in response to a well-meant analytical post.

Well, I'm tired of playing patient mommy with you. Once is enough. Everything I said about my tone was true. I bent over backwards in that long post that took so much effort trying to understand just where they hell you got off being so insulting. Thank you for proving to me once again (i've run into your spoiled little boy playing dominant times hundreds of times before, Zip) that extending effort and time on someone like you is a very foolish thing to do. I'll try to remember this when the next clown in dominant's clothing comes around.

(shaking head in disgust)

*Plonk!*

UCE,

Feel free to think anything you want about me. I couldn't care less about your opinions of me or your opinions about anything having to do with this lifestyle. To be honest, if all you have gotten out of your extensive 15 years of research is that:
1) Submissives are emotionally 12 year olds or younger
2) Doms should tolerate years of endless questioning from their subs
3) Respect does not play any part in a BDSM relationship

Then I would have to say that you have just wasted 15 years. These are points you have made in your posts that I find ridiculous!

If you are not intelliegent enough to understand the simple points I made without resorting to insults, well that's not my problem. And if you can't read and even-handed reply to your "analysis" without getting upset, then don't try and analyze people you don't know. When I post, I speak from my experience - period. I do not try and set myself up as some kind of "supposed expert" as you have done. And if I make a mistake, I own up to it.

You're a joke!

 

[UCE]

With all due respect UCE, you are the one out of line. What do you do make it up as you go along? You seem to get defensive when anyone asks you to back up your so-called "facts", or even has the balls to ask you for clarification.

By the way, YOUR hostility is showing.


Ebony

You boob, he just flamed the hell out of me. (sweet smile) You simply like what he says much more than you like what I say, so when he flames me royally and tells me I'm a liar about being sincere and not attacking him it's asking me to back up my facts (just how do I do that? Cut open my brain, hack out the memory of how I felt then and burn it on a CD for him to look at? TELL ME HOW I BACK UP MY FACT THAT I WAS SINCERE, EB?)

When I flame, however, I am "just being hostile." Of course, becuase you don't like what I have to say.

Do you always jump into other peoples' disagreements in this way, Ms. Busybody? It's not only extremely rude, but it makes you look like a bully trying to start a gang attack or a witchhunt against me simply becuase the ideas Ii have about D&S scare the little panties off you!

Why don't you get your big nose out of matters that are NONE of your business lest you make yourself look even more pathetic than you actually are!

 

[zipman]

You boob, he just flamed the hell out of me. (sweet smile) You simply like what he says much more than you like what I say, so when he flames me royally and tells me I'm a liar about being sincere and not attacking him it's asking me to back up my facts (just how do I do that? Cut open my brain, hack out the memory of how I felt then and burn it on a CD for him to look at? TELL ME HOW I BACK UP MY FACT THAT I WAS SINCERE, EB?)

When I flame, however, I am "just being hostile." Of course, becuase you don't like what I have to say.

Do you always jump into other peoples' disagreements in this way, Ms. Busybody? It's not only extremely rude, but it makes you look like a bully trying to start a gang attack or a witchhunt against me simply becuase the ideas Ii have about D&S scare the little panties off you!

Why don't you get your big nose out of matters that are NONE of your business lest you make yourself look even more pathetic than you actually are!

Is this the flame you are referring to.

Originally posted by Zipman7
I still do not believe I read anything into your posts that wasn't there. I think you were trying to make a point at my expense. I think you took parts of my post and attributed motivations to them and then wrongly speculated on why I wasn't more patient or having successful relationships.

What part is flaming? That I don't agree with you? That I reread what I wrote and what you wrote and still don't see how a supposedly intelligent person could have so mistaken what I posted. You started qouting me in the middle of my post. The first part that you ignored was pretty clear.

So yes, I think you were desperately trying to make a point about Doms and you tried to use my words against me. You made an error in thinking that you could brow-beat me by using your 24/7 TPE lifestyle and supposed "expertise" that comes from all your research. I proved you wrong. Get over it!

 

[~Dream~]

Re: displays of respect??

I must jump in here.

Dream, your signature lines are just displays.. not of love, but of childish self-indulgence.

Love demands sacrifice and thinking of others. If you were "so much in love" with your Master you would say it LESS and display it MORE, in ways that have meaning. Posting it with hearts and flowers mean nothing. It is your actions that count.

Right now, you actions speak much louder than you words, and they DO NOT speak of love.

Ebony

_________________
First of all Ebonyfire (thought ya werent gonna respond to any more posts? ),I have tried my damndest really I have (bites my lip here) and I will say only 1 thing HOW I choose to display My REAL genuine LOVE for Artful is MY business and MINE only, As long as Master appreciates it and I do SHOW it to HIM in my actions ,I have NOTHING whatsoever to PROVE to you or ANYONE else on this darn forum.. I have made more sacrifices than you are even ever gonna be aware of , so dont speak of things you know NOTHING about ,concerning MY relationship.. ways that have MEANING to you ,mean NOTHING to me ,understand? JMHO ../ thats why we clash so damn much ,You think I should act a 'certain way" ,well sorry I am gonna be Me, Artful's dream ,period,the person Artful CHOSE and still CHOOSES to be His submissive sex slave AND the love of His life .. I know you and Zip respect Him and guess what ,thats something and perhaps the ONLY thing we will EVER have in common.. just so ya know, you DONt get to write the BOOK on how submissives show their love ,ok? you Are entitled to your opinions and I am to mine at the best we can AGREE to DISAGREE ,period . (looks for a damn white flag) GEEZ! alos it matters not to me that you call me a "child as your remarks back to me are seen as every bit as childish by ALOT of people..and THAT IS the TRUTH.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re;Zip

Dream, I did think that I saw a post where you said that Artful asked you to make your sig line smaller after Lance commented on it. If I was mistaken then I apologize.

I agree with you when you state that you are responsible for your own actions but I disagree with you when you state that it does not reflect on Artful. Of course it does. You two have decided to have an Online relationship that is open for the whole forum to see. Therefore, if you do something wrong, speak to others disrespectfully, then people are going to look at Artful and say to themsleves "I can't believe he lets her do that." That is human nature, it may not be right, but I assure you it has and will continue to happen.

If I went to a BDSM party and my sub was not behaving well, everyone there would look at me and judge me by her actions. They might say she is a bad sub. They might also say that I am a bad Dom as I am not controlling her behavior effectively.

Artful has given you a gift in that he has allowed you to be your own person online, and ask and post however you want to. But there is a price that he has to pay for it. Again, it may not be fair, but it does happen. Just think about it.

_____________________________

<snip>then people are going to look at Artful and say to themsleves "I can't believe he lets her do that." That is human nature, it may not be right, but I assure you it has and will continue to happen.

**MASTER cannot and DOES not control each and every word that comes out of my mouth ,that is virtually impossible as no 1.. I am NOT a clone Or A puppet and No 2 I have freedom of speech as a human being anyways (looks for Lance ) lol..
However and PLEASE Do NOT faint here cause You actually have a point and being the smart lil submissive I AM i ACTUALLY grasped it (omg there's hope for me yet)I am NOt responsible for how others CHOOSE to view my actions ,THEY are , but I do accept the FACT that it is a Gift' as you sayand I will try better to watch my responses ,funny I respond quite nicely when you or Eb arent online but there's just something about the 2 of you that rubs me the "wrong way' and since I hardly EVER see you either one post ANYTHING positive about me ,I am ALWAYS on the defensive mode when you are around ,call it a protective maneuver ,I've had way more than my fair share of abuse in my life and I';m NOT taking no more ,period .. I am a very strong ,sincere and honest woman... I will do better by Master and as long as He is happy with me ,thats REALLY ALL i care about .. I do thank you for YOUR post Zip as I feel you actually put some effort into thinking I also may have feelings that time .. > thanks for showing me ANOTHER perspective

 

[UCE]

Re: Re: displays of respect??

_________________
First of all Ebonyfire (thought ya werent gonna respond to any more posts? ),I have tried my damndest really I have (bites my lip here) and I will say only 1 thing HOW I choose to display My REAL genuine LOVe for Artful is MY business and MINE only, As long as Master appreciates it and I do SHOW it to HIM in my actions ,I have NOTHING whatsoever to PROVE to you or ANYONE else on this darn forum..

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

No, of course you don't have to prove anything to anybody here (and neither do I, especially after today!--she says in disgust) but for what it's worth, Dream, you have proven to me here in your public posts (I have never had the pleasure to PM you) something of the enormity of what you are doing. Maybe it's just the fact that I have been through very hard times in my life too, and am still going through them that lets me recogize some of the enormity of what you (and Artful too, like I said before, the man has guts to take on responsibilities of this sort) are doing. Perhaps the people that don't recogize this haven't had as much experiencing and schooling in hard times as we both have....and don't realize that, no matter what things look like on the surface, hard times make you a stronger person.

I am begining to get the distinct feeling that there are a few people posting here who haven't been given opportunities to grow up and that they don't realize/can't recognize what real hardship looks like; that I'm dealing with people who have never faced a single serious crisis or tragedy in their lives. Well, if the US economy is heading for the depression I speculate we're tottering on the brink of, I expect more of these people will get plenty of opportunity to grow up...or perish. Grim thought, but I do think it's coming.

Anyway, there is a huge communication gap,I think, between the very experienced and the little experienced. I think it's so big, in fact, that these two groups of people cannot speak to each other. In this regard, I've decided to follow the advice of one of the sig lines I like to use: "The dog barks but the caravan goes on." I know dogs when I hear them, I know their barking means absolutly nothing in terms of what's real or important, but the other day I yelled at the neighbors dog downstairs because it started baying crazily at me when I pounded something on my floor. I've done some similar things here recently, and now I'm laughing at them, as I laughed at myself for yelling at that braindead puppy last night. I'm now going to get on with what I do, and let the dogs, of whatever sort may be out there, bray as they will. It has nothing whatsoever to do with me and what I am doing. I advise you, Dream, to do the same, because I think you will be happier if you do. You have a lot to teach and offer the people here who are reading your posts and listening to you. Don't let the "woofers" in this place or elsewhere stop you from doing that.

Unda

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Re: Re;Zip

_____________________________

<snip>then people are going to look at Artful and say to themsleves "I can't believe he lets her do that." That is human nature, it may not be right, but I assure you it has and will continue to happen.

**MASTER cannot and DOES not control each and every word that comes out of my mouth ,that is virtually impossible as no 1.. I am NOT a clone Or A puppet and No 2 I have freedom of speech as a human being anyways (looks for Lance ) lol..
However and PLEASE Do NOT faint here cause You actually have a point and being the smart lil submissive I AM i ACTUALLY grasped it (omg there's hope for me yet)I am NOt responsible for how others CHOOSE to view my actions ,THEY are , but I do accept the FACT that it is a Gift' as you sayand I will try better to watch my responses ,funny I respond quite nicely when you or Eb arent online but there's just something about the 2 of you that rubs me the "wrong way' and since I hardly EVER see you either one post ANYTHING positive about me ,I am ALWAYS on the defensive mode when you are around ,call it a protective maneuver ,I've had way more than my fair share of abuse in my life and I';m NOT taking no more ,period .. I am a very strong ,sincere and honest woman... I will do better by Master and as long as He is happy with me ,thats REALLY ALL i care about .. I do thank you for YOUR post Zip as I feel you actually put some effort into thinking I also may have feelings that time .. > thanks for showing me ANOTHER perspective

Dream, I am glad that you recognized that I was not trying to bash you or flame you. And of course I realize that you have feelings. All I wanted to do was to point out how some people think. It is not always right and not always fair.

I have posted some positive things about you Dream, but to be honest, I am often distracted by your posting style. It is hard for me to follow what you are saying sometimes. I am sorry if I make you feel defensive. Since I cannot just post positive things when I agree with you and hold back the criticisms I have when I read something I disagree with, I will refrain from commenting on anything you post from now on. You won't get the helpful stuff, but you also won't get anything negative, and you won't have to be "on the defensive." Fair enough?

 

[~Dream~]

listening to my headphones..

'playing 'Who let the dogs out'? lol (looks at Unda) ^5's her!! hell yeah!! I can handle that!! just fine ... Goes back to curl at my Master's feet..

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re;Zip

Dream, I am glad that you recognized that I was not trying to bash you or flame you. And of course I realize that you have feelings. All I wanted to do was to point out how some people think. It is not always right and not always fair.

I have posted some positive things about you Dream, but to be honest, I am often distracted by your posting style. It is hard for me to follow what you are saying sometimes. I am sorry if I make you feel defensive. Since I cannot just post positive things when I agree with you and hold back the criticisms I have when I read something I disagree with, I will refrain from commenting on anything you post from now on. You won't get the helpful stuff, but you also won't get anything negative, and you won't have to be "on the defensive." Fair enough?

_____________________
Zipman , I do appreciate so much the fact that you see I have indeed been hurt and I do apologize for any mean ,hurtful or disrespectful things I have said about you ,I will still read your posts so I still feel I'll get ALOT of helpful information ,thanks ,I usually did..I even started that 1 thread that time cause of advice given from you ,its only when people assume inaccurate thgings about me or my Master that I really get tiffed .. we are not America's most perfect couple and I'm sorry sometimes if thats what it seems like I portray us to be.. In my Eyes ,He makes me happy ,I want peole to know that Genuine Love like that IS out there via the net ..

I would never expect you to just post "nice lil positive things' about my posts and not include "constructive criticism ' when I really need it,my point I think is that it has mostly been DESTRUCTIVE criticism ,aimed at maybe just making me feel a little bit *worse* about myself.. I'm just telling you how I have been Feeling it ,not saying that was your Intention at all..

I will get all my GOOD FEELINGS i need and deserve from My Master and my friends from now on ,I shouldnt have looked for it from you or others at all and that was MY mistake ,I'm sorry I did that .. I cannot and will not however change my posting *style* ,(not sure what you meant by that anyways ) as I can only be ME ,Dream full of love ,hope , mistakes ,fears ,and searching and yearning to be a better submissive .. thats Who I REALLY am ...
Dont gotta like me or Love me ,matters not ,I'm just another poster after all ,ty for Your post ZIP ..

 

[Ebonyfire]

You boob, he just flamed the hell out of me. (sweet smile) You simply like what he says much more than you like what I say, so when he flames me royally and tells me I'm a liar about being sincere and not attacking him it's asking me to back up my facts (just how do I do that? Cut open my brain, hack out the memory of how I felt then and burn it on a CD for him to look at? TELL ME HOW I BACK UP MY FACT THAT I WAS SINCERE, EB?)

When I flame, however, I am "just being hostile." Of course, becuase you don't like what I have to say.

Do you always jump into other peoples' disagreements in this way, Ms. Busybody? It's not only extremely rude, but it makes you look like a bully trying to start a gang attack or a witchhunt against me simply becuase the ideas Ii have about D&S scare the little panties off you!

Why don't you get your big nose out of matters that are NONE of your business lest you make yourself look even more pathetic than you actually are!

Boob?

God, you are eloquent (and still so in consequential).

Why don't YOU take a walk down reality street. Look in the mirror. Being insulted by you is an HONOR.

BUG OFF, ROACH.

EB

 

[Ebonyfire]

NOTE TO UCE

Flame me all you care to. If you are that insecure and pathetic, then I am happy that I fill a void in your tiny little life.

I am here for you little roach.

Eb

 

[UCE]

Re: listening to my headphones..

'playing 'Who let the dogs out'? lol (looks at Unda) ^5's her!! hell yeah!! I can handle that!! just fine ... Goes back to curl at my Master's feet..

Oh that song! The first time I heard it was here on the net combined with this hilarious online toy animation created by one of those crazy Finns and starring he-man and skeletor...

(I'll have to post the URL now--if you can watch movies this will crack you up, lol)

Here is the URL: load the one called dance contest. This is a movie, so if you have a slow connection, you may want to save it to watch it offline:

http://www.multi.fi/~pleppo/SA/SAG.htm

The thing about the great attack on your sig line business which I really don't understand is why the people who are bitching simply don't turn off VIEW SIG LINES in their edit preferences. Then they would never see your signature and they would have whatever visual peace and quiet they think is being distrubed by it.

Who let the bunnies out? (see below)

 

[MasterKensbeany]

Unda

I've been keeping out of this fray, watching and hoping that you might take a step back and listen to what people have been trying to say to you. All I see happening is that you're losing all perspective and control of your emotions and venting your anger at people who started out with the best of intentions in their posts. I'm not flaming you Unda, I am hoping that you'll listen calmly to someone who has 15 years of real life experience on you (that's 30+ in all).

You have this tendency to make very broad generalized statements about others, saying that you have done extensive research to come to your conclusions. Since you're unable to produce any hard evidence of your research, I think you would serve your opinions better if you'd stick to personal truths, things you know from your life with your Master. To make statements that all subs are......., or all Doms are...... simply puts people off. We are all of us unique and very few appreciate being put into boxes (unless of course its my cage). I know that I was quite offended with your lumping all subs together as emotionally crippled children for, I am a strong mature woman and I don't fit into that box. I was also bothered by your reference to all Dom/mes as spoiled brats throwing temper tantrums. These broad strokes only hurt your credibility in others eyes.

You have such a wealth of personal experience and such a unique perspective that you don't need to justify your opinions with data gleaned from others, just tell us what you think from where you are. The name calling is both uncalled for and only serves to diminish what you are trying to say Unda, please leave it out of your posts. You're an intelligent woman and intelligence never needs to resort to such small, petty things.

Respectfully
beany

 

[~Dream~]

Re:Beany

Point taken .. by your post
The name calling is both uncalled for and only serves to diminish what you are trying to say Unda, please leave it out of your posts. You're an intelligent woman and intelligence never needs to resort to such small, petty things.

** Gee I believe that would go for ALL PARTIES invoved now also ,wouldnt it beany? Correctly you said, that it is HIGHLY 'insulting 'of one's intelligence to call another a name..I take that statement as Universal for Dom's and subs as well..


Ding ding ding "in this corner at a weight of .."'let's get ready to Rumble!!" Geez what DID happen to the good ole days when everyone use to go outside ,play with their kids,walk in the woods..I am quite "DISAPPOINTED',in keeping with the threads title and not hijacking my own Master's thread (that would be wrong)..Disappointed that" supposed ADULTS "have to behave so 'childishly ' ..I'm outta here till My "Hero' comes back .. lol

 

[MasterKensbeany]

To Dream

Dream

I've never answered one of your posts or threads simply because I am totally puzzled by you. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I've just never known another sub like you so I've been cautious about talking to you. Something that Zipman said on this thread caught me however, when he told you that yours words and actions reflect on your Master. This is something that's struck me many times while reading your posts and I thought I might give you some insight from the point of view of another sub. Just my insight mind you, I'm speaking only for myself.

Zipman stated that when you post something....for lack of a better phrase...out of line, that others reading it ask themselves "why does her Master let her get away with that". I know that what he's saying is true but, my gut reaction is a little different. I ask myself, "how can she say something like that in an open forum? Doesn't she ever think that she might embarrass her Master?" I don't know if he is embarrassed by the things you say or not, I've never talked to him personally. I've read most of his recent posts and I find him a thoughtful, caring, respectable man who I think any sub would be happy to serve. It doesn't really matter if in fact he is bothered by your posts, to me at least. I hope I'm making this clear and I'm honestly not trying to hurt or offend you.

From my own perspective, I am very careful never to post anything to any board that might offend or embarrass my own Master and if I'm not sure, I run it by him first. He has never been bothered by anything I've written but he does appreciate that I think about that before I post something. Does this make any sense to you? Does it ring true at all?

I'll tell you something in all candor Dream and this is not meant to harm you, only to show you what others see. When I read your Master's dismissal of you on the open forum, my first thought was that he was doing it to show you how it felt to be publically humiliated. I'm not saying that was his motive, I have no idea what it was in reality. I'm only telling you, that was how it looked and felt to me.

Please understand that this post is not a bashing of you, I don't have any reason to do that. I think you are a kind, sensitive woman who truly loves her Master. I am just trying to help you see another perspective.

Respectfully
beany

 

[UCE]

Unda

I've been keeping out of this fray, watching and hoping that you might take a step back and listen to what people have been trying to say to you. All I see happening is that you're losing all perspective and control of your emotions and venting your anger at people who started out with the best of intentions in their posts. I'm not flaming you Unda, I am hoping that you'll listen calmly to someone who has 15 years of real life experience on you (that's 30+ in all).

To make statements that all subs are......., or all Doms are...... simply puts people off.beany

I respectly submit, that as in all cases where one side of a fray appeals to you more than another, you aren't seeing the anger that is being vent at me first. Because you agree with certain views, you are skipping over the insults and anger and haughtiness with which those views are being presented and seeing only my, admittedly, sometimes outraged response to them. I suggest you read over the posts that directly caused me to respond in a way that seems angry to you and look at the baiting and the arrogance and all the things that you seem to see in my posts. They are in the others, too. But having a bais toward a certain kind of view can make one blind to it.

I have not made statements that all doms are this or all subs are that to my knowlege. I know how people respnond to that kind of thing (13 years online, remember? poeple still act the same way now, nothing at all has changed) and so I am very careful to qualify my statements. "Doms attempting to acheive THIS goal need to always consider THAT result" is something I _might_ say, although even that statement doesn't sound qualified enough to make it past my personal censors. If you re-read my posts you'll see that most qualifications are there, that I make it clear what specific types of people I'm talking about.

And in a few cases, beany, I do believe that certain things apply to all in a particular group. Am I not supposed to speak my opinion simply because it'll piss off a few unstable people? If I really believe something am I supposed to censor my belief and never speak it simply becuase it is a generalization and it will therefore outrage you or your friends? I don't think so. I will generalize as I want and people are welcome to respond as they want. If they respond in a fashion that is significantly grown up (minus the haughtiness,, the sneers, the snide remarks, the outraged HOW DARE YOU's? the feet stomping) I might actually answer. I have done so frequenly with several people here who do know how to communciate as adults. You're one of them by the way, although I did wish you had said that "steam coming out of my ears" comment to my face rather than talking about me in third person. It made me feel I didn't exist for you as a human being.

Sometimes I misunderstand someone (who doesn't misunderstand others here? Look at EB's gross misundrestanding of and oversimplifcation of dream if you want an example of someone else doing this) not always because I misread them but sometimes because they do not present themselves clearly or completely or competently and I get the impression that they are talking about a sort of sitation or relationship when they are talking about an entirely different one. And when that happens I apologize and analyze what I did wrong, as I did with zipman, but when he responds to that long and careful analysis with a completely overbearing, stupid, and ill-thought-out flame where he basically calls my clear statement about my original intentions a LIE, he is going to get flamed right back and then put promptly on ignore. I don't suffer fools gladly, beany, and I don't think anybody here should have to. Would you talk to someone who was brashly insisting that you felt something other than what you actually felt or intended when you wrote a post? I beleive you'd realize that you know much better than him what was in your head and heart and for him to insist on the opposite showed him to be the most inexperienced sort of fool.

Don't play group cop, beany simply because these people who I disagree with are your buddies. If you don't like what I write to others, you don't have to read it. If you don't like what you see as my generalizations, you are welcome to disagree with them and if the disagreement is couched in sane adult terms I will probably respond, as I have with other who don't go beserk on me and wildly fantasize that my generalizations are some sort of personal attack. I would just like it, however, if you don't like something I've done to say it to my face, thus acknowledging me as a person, rather than objectying me in the third person.

I think this plea of yours is rather moot now as a lot of this is going to die down instantly--at least on my part--as there are certain people I have simply decided there is no use in responding to. They may continue to chatter and, if they are childish enough, they will desperately try to find ways to get me to see their chatter, but none of that matters. I've decided that they are not worth my time or effort. That is my decision to make, nobody else's, and I do it willingly because it will cause this deranged fracas to die down more quickly. Haven't you noticed that in the last two hours or so all the screaming at me has become one-way? I've just told you why.

Regards,
Unda