Disappointments

[lovecraft68]

Hope it wasn't you, LC.

But then, I guess you would've known before you let it slip.

Nah, I said one of the biggest, I'm a small fry around here. I take full credit/blame for every word I've ever published here. These are no one's sick fantasies and bad grammar, but my own.

 

[estragon]

Did I mention that Grandmistress Lisa Jones hinted that his/her excellent series "A Tangled Web" might be his/her swan song on Lit? It was a great series to copy edit, and a lot of fun to read. His/her characters remain vivid in my memory. And exchanging e-mails with an author I admire really brightened my day.

I do hope GMLJ will reconsider and return to Lit. I'm sure his/her many fans will second that emotion.

In any event, I wish GMLJ every success in all future endeavors.

 

[estragon]

Monumentally Off-Topic

at least as regards postings on Lit, but where was Cornell on Saturday night? They were supposed to be playing Boston University at the Garden. I did see Andy Iles in goal, playing his heart out as usual, but nobody else seems to have caught the bus from Ithaca. It took five mortal minutes into the first period for Cornell to get its first shot on goal. Then halfway through the first period they took two penalties within two seconds, and gave BU a score on the power play (incidentally, Cornell's power play was the stuff of tragedy--I suggest someone whisper gently in the ears of the defensemen that it is quite permissible to shoot the puck from just within the blue line in a power play). Of course, Cornell tied the score in the third period, but it was too little, too late. Boston U won in overtime. The game never should have gotten there.

I do fault Cornell for not giving the BU team a Christmas card. As they gave BU the game as a present, they should have at least included a tasteful card.

 

[amandahansen]

I always start with the ending in my head. Then I start writing the story. As the story progresses, the ending I started with always changes.

It almost always works out though.

the same with you, I have the same question

 

[estragon]

Absent Friends

I miss an entry from Serenissima Sydney Blake in the Winter Holidays contest. And I wish Grandmistress Lisa Jones would come back to Lit. Ditto Ilmonamour and PatriciaFCartier. Good writers all, and it seems, far, far away. *sigh*

 

[SydneyBlake]

I miss an entry from Serenissima Sydney Blake in the Winter Holidays contest. And I wish Grandmistress Lisa Jones would come back to Lit. Ditto Ilmonamour and PatriciaFCartier. Good writers all, and it seems, far, far away. *sigh*

Okay, now I don't mind being on your Disappointments thread. just haven't had the time to give to writing the story I want to write. Don't worry, my friend, I'll be back soon.

 

[estragon]

Okay, now I don't mind being on your Disappointments thread. just haven't had the time to give to writing the story I want to write. Don't worry, my friend, I'll be back soon.

Huzza!!! Now that's one fewer Disappointment.

 

[estragon]

Disappointed At Myself

Utterly flubbed a major edit in one of DG Hear, MFG's, stories, an entry in the Winter Holidays, and I caught a bunch of deserved flak. Since the story was posted in LW, the ack-ack was all pointed in the right direction, and the gunners were not lacking ammo or an easy target (with which last-named item I supplied them). I'm disappointed at me.

 

[estragon]

Ambivalent Disappointment

My latest story, "The Gym", posted to a record low score, 2.04 on 27 votes and 7250 views. But the one comment I got shows the commentator got the point I was making exactly--a character that makes the reader uncomfortable, drawn with "quippy writing". My man George Bernard Shaw once wrote a series of plays entitled "Plays Pleasant and Unpleasant". I have a similar feeling. Disappointed at the score, but pleased at the comment.

 

[LordMhoram]

I have to disagree with the needing an ending before writing a story as well. Some of the more interesting works of fiction came when the author just let the story take over. Take for example Fight Club.

When Chuck Palahniuk wrote Fight Club, one of the most telling revelations of the story is that he didn't realize the narrator and Tyler Durden were the exact same person until he was 3/4 of the way through the book. It's that whole twist right there that really sets up the best part of the story.

You're right, having an ending in mind is good, as it does give a goal to progress to. But it's not necessary.

While on the one hand I think you raise a superb point, I feel there is an error in your concluding logic.

As I was reading through this thread, an idea was forming in my head about having a plot goal, at least a general idea of where you wanted your story to end, but also being flexible about that ending.

Such a circumstance helps to guide the writer towards an interesting ending, while leaving the characters as free and realistic as possible during the journey to realizing that end.

I think, inadvertently, you have argued that point. I would be willing to bet Palahniuk had a plot goal in mind as he wrote, but during the creative process realized he had in his hands the perfect device for a very intriguing twist to the story. I find myself wondering if his final goal/ending really changed that much at all despite this important shift for one of his characters?

 

[sr71plt]

I think it's pretty important to have "a" plausible ending in mind. That doesn't mean it has to be the ending you wind up with.

Not having any sense of an ending is what often happens on Lit. and other websites where a story rambles out incoherently for forty chapters and never does end. That's pretty much a time waster for all involved, no less the readers. That's called wasting your time until something important in life saunters along--rather than going and looking for what's important.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

I think it's pretty important to have "a" plausible ending in mind. That doesn't mean it has to be the ending you wind up with.

Just so. If you shoot without a target, you're unlikely to hit anything at all. Begin with a target, and be willing to switch if you see a better one.

 

[estragon]

Sometimes the story writes itself, the author's role being more like a scribe. Of course, there are stories that neither the author should have written, nor should the story have been written by the story itself. Hence the title of this thread.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

Sometimes the story writes itself, the author's role being more like a scribe. Of course, there are stories that neither the author should have written, nor should the story have been written by the story itself. Hence the title of this thread.

I've read a few like that. And, in fact, it seemed like nobody did write some of them. Not even the story itself.

 

[oggbashan]

Sometimes the story writes itself, the author's role being more like a scribe. Of course, there are stories that neither the author should have written, nor should the story have been written by the story itself. Hence the title of this thread.

I know I've posted some of them.

So far, when my finished story ends up disappointing me, I'll still post it. The readers' reaction doesn't always match with my perception of the finished story so I won't list any of my 'failures'.

My heap of incomplete stories, of completely failed attempts, is far larger than my posted works. Sometimes I dig around in the heap for ideas but find more trash than jewels.

 

[kittysub]

Disagreeable me

I very much disagree with all the comments about the necessity of having an ending in mind before you start a story. I write novels with 90k worth of words, and I have never had even a vision of an ending in mind when I start. I begin with two characters and an opening scene, a spark... a vision. I get inside their heads, explore their psyche and the story usually writes itself. Even during times where I've struggled to get the story on paper, it has more to do with the distractions of real life than whether or not I have an ending in mind.

But then, it's called writing by the seat of your pants for a reason. Some people need to lay out the plot before they begin writing. They need the direction of those little notecards or diagram or whatever little routine revs their muse. They are plotters.

So just like the variety of sexual needs found here on Lit, it's a case of different strokes for different folks. Find what works for you and do it. Whatever gets your butt in front of the computer and words on the screen.

And there you have my two cents, to be tossed in the gutter or deposited into your piggy bank. lol

 

[TxRad]

I very much disagree with all the comments about the necessity of having an ending in mind before you start a story. I write novels with 90k worth of words, and I have never had even a vision of an ending in mind when I start. I begin with two characters and an opening scene, a spark... a vision. I get inside their heads, explore their psyche and the story usually writes itself. Even during times where I've struggled to get the story on paper, it has more to do with the distractions of real life than whether or not I have an ending in mind.

But then, it's called writing by the seat of your pants for a reason. Some people need to lay out the plot before they begin writing. They need the direction of those little notecards or diagram or whatever little routine revs their muse. They are plotters.

So just like the variety of sexual needs found here on Lit, it's a case of different strokes for different folks. Find what works for you and do it. Whatever gets your butt in front of the computer and words on the screen.

And there you have my two cents, to be tossed in the gutter or deposited into your piggy bank. lol

If the story is there it makes no difference how you get there. The fist thing i ever wrote was a 283 page novel. I had a scene about a front porch of a cabin and a character in mind when i started. They were from real life. After that, the story took over and wrote itself. Where it came from I have no idea but it was there as I needed it.

I still write like that. From what you say, you write the same way. It works for me and it works for you but it doesn't work for many others. They have to deal with it in their own ways. Is what we do better? That I don't know and frankly don't care. What works for me is all that matters.

 

[estragon]

The old song says it all, from the writer's point of view: "It's all right now, I've learned my lesson well, if you can't please everybody, you have to learn to please yourself."

From the readers'/critics' point of view, it's different. Hence the title of this thread.

 

[SydneyBlake]

The old song says it all: "It's all right now, I've learned my lesson well, if you can't please everybody, you have to learn to please yourself."

They were talking about writing???

 

[VinnyFromGerman]

A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

 

[estragon]

A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

Not sure what relevance this has to this topic. Why does this disappoint you?

 

[KatieTay]

I suppose I must add my latest installment of my current series to the list of "disappointments", lol.

The others get around 10k+ views on average.. but this latest one appears to have gotten only 2k+. I guess it was the series fatigue some of the commentators were kind enough to let me know about.

Ah well, it's ok I guess.

 

[estragon]

I Should Have Known Better

It's only my own fault, really, but I devoted two-and-a-half hours to providing feedback to an author who requested it in the posted story (even the bad feedback, s/he said). So I quibbled, via "Send Feedback", of course.

I got a lengthy reply, wherein I was politely told that the author neither wanted nor needed an editor, and please to keep my comments to myself. I certainly do not want to go where I am not wanted, much less to spend an evening working (and it is work) to no useful purpose. And I definitely don't want to cause anyone else to spend their time to no useful purpose.

On top of that, the author told me s/he formerly thought me "cool", but now thinks I am "just another English major". I thought I had a fairly thorough catalog of my sins from my friends and family, which I acknowledge, but I plead "not guilty" to that last one.

 

[nakdsub]

I have to say...

I'm disappointed in the scores for my last story.
I write mostly for LW and, yes I know it's a very difficult category, but I thought I would write a cute little story about a truly, Loving Wife who did not cheat on her husband.
I was really hoping for another one of those illusive red, "H"'s. But alas, it was not to be falling into the low 4's.
Boo Hoo!

 

[sr71plt]

It's only my own fault, really, but I devoted two-and-a-half hours to providing feedback to an author who requested it in the posted story (even the bad feedback, s/he said). So I quibbled, via "Send Feedback", of course.

I got a lengthy reply, wherein I was politely told that the author neither wanted nor needed an editor, and please to keep my comments to myself. I certainly do not want to go where I am not wanted, much less to spend an evening working (and it is work) to no useful purpose. And I definitely don't want to cause anyone else to spend their time to no useful purpose.

On top of that, the author told me s/he formerly thought me "cool", but now thinks I am "just another English major". I thought I had a fairly thorough catalog of my sins from my friends and family, which I acknowledge, but I plead "not guilty" to that last one.

Well, if you are "just" an English major, s/he might have a point--and it would be interesting to see the differences in what you thought was good for fiction writing and what s/he thought was good. Being an English major isn't very close at all to being a good editor (or writer) for commercial fiction. Perhaps you could post some examples of contention.

I sometimes have "just" English majors (if that) tell me that there are mistakes in my stories (and there are, of course, mistakes in my stories) that aren't mistakes at all in the commercial writing field.

I've seen comments you've left on stories (even ones not requesting a critique) saying that the story needed to be edited better, but not giving examples of what you thought was wrong. The assumption you were right is just that--your assumption--without specifying what you mean.