Dom's that slip from Dom to an excuse to get a cock in...

[Netzach]

Framing, it's all in the framing.

Oh God, yawn, slap, let's screw is completely different from what SD or Rosco are talking about, I imagine, as a steady diet.

I still defend the right of the Top to the former...
but caveat no-foreplay fucker, like I said.

 

[shaymless]

Interesting reading...

I am filtering this through submissive feelings, since I don't identify as a slave.

Am I going to shutthefuckup if my needs for sexual release aren't being met? Probably, because I know that pleases him for whatever reason (and I use him because I've never been sexually involved with a Domme). Granted, that's also from a perspective that generally on the flip side of the coin, there are times when I'll be begging to be able to STOP having orgasms.

Am I going to do the same if my submissive needs aren't being met? Or my masochistic needs? Probably not, particularly if I felt that they weren't being met out of laziness, or a sense of "been there, done that, pass the beer, bitch". If I wanted to be a maid, I'd apply to work as one.

I choose to submit. I choose to please. But if pleasing him doesn't please me...well, I guess I'd have to choose something else.

Just my opinion
shay

 

[AngelicAssassin]

but yes, the door is open, I'm sure. a master should display no need at all to keep the subordinated one. (Angelic--there, does that make you feel better?)

Laughing actually. i agreed almost down the line in your response to 'Cisco, and subsequent response to SLP.

First things first: i find it a pity SLP probably won't come back in here to expound on the situation. The initial post set off all my "sigh, woe is me" flags. i, for one, have about had it with the initial touchy feely posts, followed by comments on mature adult relationships. That said, and pardon the hijack anelize, if you don't like my lifestyle, fuck you.

Second: Thank you SD for slamming the point home. If you don't want to fucking submit, what the hell are you doing in a submissive relationship. Yes, a pyl has needs. Yes, a PYL has a duty to fulfill those needs, but as s/he sees fit. Otherwise, as other threads have mentioned, the pyl has the final say so on moving his/her happy ass right on along.

Third: For comic relief, Netzi, i've done time with a few dead logs in my past. It ain't just the male side of the house with the right to be boring and repetitive.

Fifth: i have just as much fun initiating romance in a relationship, BDSM or not. If not BDSM, i like eliciting cooing and happiness with a romantic lover. If BDSM, it keeps things fresh and provides all the more sweeter a sting when i do desire to let WHOB romp over her.

Sixth: Good Lord, where the hell is Ebonyfire.

and Last: i could give a shit where this thread goes from here. Have at it with the multiple repetitive statements espousing one side, or the other, from 24-7/online/whatever choice you lead. Thanks EB. i think i finally get part of the reason.

 

[Guest]

I have been noticing Master lately has been slipping from being a true Master in the sense of practising BDSM into a slap her a couple times tie her up and get my cock in as soon as I can.
He's figured it out at last thank god, the other night when he came out of his selfish haze long enough to figure I was not enjoying myself at all. He is now aware and trying to fix it.

Why do Master's do that??? I suppose everyone must go thru stages where they want sex and not all the other stuff but what happened to asking the other party if that was ok??? Or is that too 'nilla for words?? Or should I just shutthefuckup and do as I'm told?

Yah know...with all due respect to all on the thread..This thing is a touch nonsensical...

"Why do Masters do that?" well, probably for the same reasons subs do it...
All the stuff that is not included in any of the posts like this.

Interesting turn of phrase though...Would someone take a stab at defining a "True Master"????

 

[Netzach]

Third: For comic relief, Netzi, i've done time with a few dead logs in my past. It ain't just the male side of the house with the right to be boring and repetitive.

I'd never argue otherwise, I'm just going with the original query.

 

[graceanne]

It's certainly a man's right to be boring and reptetitive as fuck, once he's designated the controlling party and the Dominant in a TPE.

But no one should be surprised or pissing and moaning when the bored party takes a hike.

True enough.

 

[Pure]

Angelic,
Eb is long gone. (Probably you know.)

But I believe she'd echo SD in spades. She'd add, I speculate, that she has the right NOT only to instant sex (or not), but to on-call SERVICE (as in, clean the floors, now!) from her subordinates.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Framing, it's all in the framing.

Oh God, yawn, slap, let's screw is completely different from what SD or Rosco are talking about, I imagine, as a steady diet.

I still defend the right of the Top to the former...
but caveat no-foreplay fucker, like I said.

cry false mastery and something something the dogs of war

 

[sunfox]

I don't doubt, to jump in all late as is my habit, that EB would say that, and she'd be correct in her handling of her own pyls.

But not every relationship is like EBs, or like SDs, and so there isn't a one size fits all answer to everyone's issues. I think it's vaguely snotty to apply the Captain Hardass Dominant Solution to every submissive/slave that posts asking for thoughts on a situation as if she should live her life the way some people do because that is the One True Way.

Get over yourself and try giving another answer besides "You should be panting and grateful to lick my toes even though I do nothing to challenge you or expand your limits as your Dominant." Like it or not, you Big Bad Dom/mes have a part to play too.

And I have to concur with the notion that while it is my duty to accept what C wants, even if it's dull and boring for me... he equally shouldn't be surprised if I'm counting bumps on the ceiling while he's doing his thing.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I guess the word "true" before Master bothers Me a little. If in fact the Master is a "true" Master I would expect if He wanted to slip his cock into His sub with NO BDSM foreplay in advance of the act for weeks on end it would be His perogative and part of His Domination.

Occassionly I as a Dominant have no interest at all in the tie ups, floggings or teasings before I am in the mood to plunge right in and take what I want sexually. I suspect I am as "true" as it gets.

In any case I would welcome the inquirey from My sub or slave as to why I wish to take him or her in that fashion...I guarantee you..I would have a quick and blunt reply.

But then I have been known to be a bit of a hard ass.

True, and we don't always start with floggings though it is rare there is not some even small SM type foreplay, but I got the impression this was perhaps concerning s_l_p in that it was seeming to be a permanent feature with no BDSM type foreplay ever. That to me would be concerning in the long term if I had entered a relationship based on a shared need and understanding which was not vanilla type sex with no trimmings.

Catalina

 

[Shadowsdream]

True, and we don't always start with floggings though it is rare there is not some even small SM type foreplay, but I got the impression this was perhaps concerning s_l_p in that it was seeming to be a permanent feature with no BDSM type foreplay ever. That to me would be concerning in the long term if I had entered a relationship based on a shared need and understanding which was not vanilla type sex with no trimmings.

Catalina

I read it differentl

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina said,

From the original post it sounds to me (and given I have limited time at the moment to read and think heavily on all this), that slp has presented a situation whereby the relationship was entered into on an understanding it was to be a D/s - BDSM type arrangement as opposed to sexual only with what the Dominant feels can pass for the expected foreplay in his mind of a couple of slaps. I for one would begin to question if it was BDSM or ansering my needs anymore if the focus was becoming sexual in the most vanilla of ways, and the SM elements were disappearing off the horizon.

I don't see, at all, the 'as opposed to', the opposition of BDSM and 'sexual only.'

I don't see why 'sex only, upon demand of the male,' is 'vanilla' or straight, esp. these days of "How to give her a total orgasm."

Surely it is inherently rather "S" for the one to use the other at will, including possibly sexually-- somewhat as SD has described above--. The arbitrary excercize of power (legally) is one thing that you call 'power play', is it not?

LOL, well if you are satisfied with sex and no SM or any type of BDSM related play in your life, but I get the impression slp is not, nor is it why many of us pursue relationships in this lifestyle choice. Sheeesh, I had pleanty of good old fashioned wham bam thank you Maam that was even satisfying pre F days, but I wanted and sought more, not more of the same. I made that quite clear to any Dominant who showed the slightest interest in me and didn't expect it to disappear after the collaring. Why bother otherwise as has been a popular queston of late on the board?

Maybe I am boring but IMHO D/s is a big part about trust, honesty, and responsibility. If you enter into a relationship with another after discussions of limits, needs, expectations, and preferred type of relationship, and that is the terms of agreement for that relationship, it then becomes a matter of honour and responsibility to uphold those discussed aspects which were the base of the initial relationship, not decide to change them overnight under the excuse the PYL can do what they want. Where is the honour, honesty, responsibilit, and trust in that if the very foundation agreed upon of SM, D/s, and/or BDSM is removed? Does it then mean all hard limits can be disregarded at whim too?

Seems to me if this is the way it is supposed to work the vanilla's should get onto this idea because all they have to do is act really well until an agreement is reached and commited to and then it is back to vanilla whether the pyl is in agreement or not. OTOH, if it were me in the position of pyl, I would be tempted to see it as a breach of contract or agreement at best, an agreement and commitment reached under false pretenses/fraud, thus invalid....and as Netzach says, 'But no one should be surprised or pissing and moaning when the bored party takes a hike'.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am going to tell one of my boring cookie stories again.

Once upon a time there was a baker who was very good at making ginger nut cookies. He loved cookies and he loved eating them. He loved them so much that he decided to only bake ginger nut cookies. His ginger nut cookies were so good that soon his shop filled with ginger nut cookie lovers, they would travel from miles to have one of his cookies.

His shop filled everyday and he could bake any amount of cookies and all of his ginger nut cookies would be sold the same day. He was making his fortune and fame as a ginger nut cookies baker.

Then one day the baker got tired of making ginger nut cookies and he decided to become a regular baker, he would bake good cookies but every baker could and were baking the same cookies he was baking. It was not long before his customers asked him to make ginger nut cookies again.

The baker said angrily to his customers,” I am the baker and I decide what I bake.”
The customers replied, “and we are the customers and we decide what we buy and eat.”

And from that day on the baker would not bake ginger nut cookies anymore and his shop would stay empty.

Smart PYL’s know that any pyl will need taking care of not only physically but also emotionally and mentally. By ignoring feelings, by ignoring thoughts and by not stimulating your property they will be bored quick and the value will diminish. Yes I use my slave in the way I want when I want it, if I want to get the maximum out of my slave I will also make sure her needs are answered.

I am a Dominant and I am human being, with compassion and love for my partner. The thought that I would completely ignore her needs is to me ridiculous. Any PYL I know in real life that has a meaningful relationship with their contra parts feels the same way. IMHO a good Dominant has in his toolbox, compassion, feelings and a sense of realisms and reality.

Look at it in this way; if you own a dog would you kick it every day just to make sure the dog knows who is the boss? If you do, you end up with a damaged dog. Dog trainers know that to achieve the best result you have to be stern, but also fair and compassionate, a dog will go to the end of the world for his master out of love not out of fear.

For me I want my slave to know that she can speak her mind, tell me her feelings and discuss them with me. Dominance to me is that I am sure enough of myself to know that I can deal with those feelings and deal with her needs and at the end of the day I am the boss in my house and I do not need to kick my slave or give her backhands to put her in line. A Dominant does not rule his kingdom with fear and submissives do not submit out of fear but out of respect and love.

Francisco.

 

[shy slave]

But if he is truly your master it seems you should shutthefuckup and do as you're told or get your kicks elsewhere.

His favourite words: 'shutthefuckup'

My favourite word:'Why'

I think Marquis has read far too many of AA's old posts

 

[Silverlily]

Interesting.

A couple of thoughts stick out in my mind. One, this is only half of the story and I am certain there are big pieces missing. Without the facts, I can only go from personal experience. I expect my subs to tell me their thoughts, their desires, their fears. In order for me to do what I do well, I want all pertinent information. What I do with that information however, is entirely up to me. Perhaps her Master is punishing her or teaching her a lesson of some kind. Or maybe he's bored, we don't know.

The second thing is how I would respond to a sub who rather than discuss this with me, took it to a public internet board and divulged personal details to just anyone. I personally would no longer have use for such a sub.

 

[shy slave]

I am going to tell one of my boring cookie stories again.

Once upon a time there was a baker who was very good at making ginger nut cookies. He loved cookies and he loved eating them. He loved them so much that he decided to only bake ginger nut cookies. His ginger nut cookies were so good that soon his shop filled with ginger nut cookie lovers, they would travel from miles to have one of his cookies.

His shop filled everyday and he could bake any amount of cookies and all of his ginger nut cookies would be sold the same day. He was making his fortune and fame as a ginger nut cookies baker.

Then one day the baker got tired of making ginger nut cookies and he decided to become a regular baker, he would bake good cookies but every baker could and were baking the same cookies he was baking. It was not long before his customers asked him to make ginger nut cookies again.

The baker said angrily to his customers,” I am the baker and I decide what I bake.”
The customers replied, “and we are the customers and we decide what we buy and eat.”

And from that day on the baker would not bake ginger nut cookies anymore and his shop would stay empty.

Smart PYL’s know that any pyl will need taking care of not only physically but also emotionally and mentally. By ignoring feelings, by ignoring thoughts and by not stimulating your property they will be bored quick and the value will diminish. Yes I use my slave in the way I want when I want it, if I want to get the maximum out of my slave I will also make sure her needs are answered.

I am a Dominant and I am human being, with compassion and love for my partner. The thought that I would completely ignore her needs is to me ridiculous. Any PYL I know in real life that has a meaningful relationship with their contra parts feels the same way. IMHO a good Dominant has in his toolbox, compassion, feelings and a sense of realisms and reality.

Look at it in this way; if you own a dog would you kick it every day just to make sure the dog knows who is the boss? If you do, you end up with a damaged dog. Dog trainers know that to achieve the best result you have to be stern, but also fair and compassionate, a dog will go to the end of the world for his master out of love not out of fear.

For me I want my slave to know that she can speak her mind, tell me her feelings and discuss them with me. Dominance to me is that I am sure enough of myself to know that I can deal with those feelings and deal with her needs and at the end of the day I am the boss in my house and I do not need to kick my slave or give her backhands to put her in line. A Dominant does not rule his kingdom with fear and submissives do not submit out of fear but out of respect and love.

Francisco.

This post is wonderful, oh to have a Master like this (apart from Him being a true sadist that is).

Its been said several times on various threads that communication, communication, communication is the key.

The problem can be with finding the right lock.
By that I mean the right time, place and words to explain that emotionally your needs are not being met.
Its difficult in a 'nilla relationship add the subservient aspect of of D/s relationship and it can be difficult.

To me its far more difficult than shutthefuckup.

 

[shy slave]

Interesting.

A couple of thoughts stick out in my mind. One, this is only half of the story and I am certain there are big pieces missing. Without the facts, I can only go from personal experience. I expect my subs to tell me their thoughts, their desires, their fears. In order for me to do what I do well, I want all pertinent information. What I do with that information however, is entirely up to me. Perhaps her Master is punishing her or teaching her a lesson of some kind. Or maybe he's bored, we don't know.

The second thing is how I would respond to a sub who rather than discuss this with me, took it to a public internet board and divulged personal details to just anyone. I personally would no longer have use for such a sub.

I understand your point Silverlily but being a sub can be lonely.
On Lit we usually get honest answers to questions and 101 ways to look at an issue before we leap headfirst in a stupid direction.
That said I could be quite Ummm put out, (upset or angry are too strong) if Master choose to come and share on Lit; although I do share many things.
Since meeting Him I have permission to ask and learn on the understanding He sees my posts (i have to copy/paste my responses should He request).
I think I would be hurt and be a little bewildered if He did not tell me that He planned to post regularly.
I guess it shows whats good for one is not good for the other lol

On a last note He is a member of Lit but has forgotton wohat He joined as and to my knowledge has never posted.

OMG What if He has....!!!!

 

[Silverlily]

I understand your point Silverlily but being a sub can be lonely.

Certainly, I agree. I think it can get lonely regardless of role.


I know, it's a case of ask ten people and get eleven answers which is why I spoke from a personal viewpoint. I don't really have specific advice for the thread starter, I don't know enough about the situation. All I can do is offer a different point of view.

I wish them well in sorting this out, if any sorting needs doing. Perceptions are amazing things, what seems like a mountain to one is a mere molehill to another.

 

[shy slave]

Perceptions are amazing things, what seems like a mountain to one is a mere molehill to another.

 

[Pure]

Francisco said,

Look at it in this way; if you own a dog would you kick it every day just to make sure the dog knows who is the boss? If you do, you end up with a damaged dog. Dog trainers know that to achieve the best result you have to be stern, but also fair and compassionate, a dog will go to the end of the world for his master out of love not out of fear.

I don't believe I've suggested anything contrary to this. But I do have one little question? What does it mean to be 'fair' to a dog?
Do you share your steak 50-50?

 

[Pure]

Sun said,

But not every relationship is like EBs, or like SDs, and so there isn't a one size fits all answer to everyone's issues. I think it's vaguely snotty to apply the Captain Hardass Dominant Solution to every submissive/slave that posts asking for thoughts on a situation as if she should live her life the way some people do because that is the One True Way.

While 'shuthefuckup' was proposed early on, later answers made the picture more nuanced. I think you're missing a key point.
I did not 'apply the Catptain Hardass Dominant Solution to every submissive/slave....' Or even to s_l_p. I said, if he's your master, you do as directed. Several others said so, also. I continued, that if s_l_p wanted a romance between equals or even to take charge of someone, then by all means go for it. Further if she wants to be topped MWF and romanced TThSat and top him every Sunday after mass, that's fine too.

No one's giving unconditional advice around here, if you get past the slogan. Several, though, are saying, "If you want to be on the football team, don't complain about the coach making you wear lots of equipment and run laps."

 

[graceanne]

True, and we don't always start with floggings though it is rare there is not some even small SM type foreplay, but I got the impression this was perhaps concerning s_l_p in that it was seeming to be a permanent feature with no BDSM type foreplay ever. That to me would be concerning in the long term if I had entered a relationship based on a shared need and understanding which was not vanilla type sex with no trimmings.

Catalina

That's what I was reading. Believe me, me and K don't always have a 'scene' everytime we have sex. We have three small kids, we dont' always have the energy to do more than a quickie. But i was reading that this was becoming more of the norm, that she felt that he had just used bdsm to get her in bed, and now that she's there, he only wants vanilla. I sure wish she'd come back and clarify. lol

 

[Marquis]

Francisco said,

Look at it in this way; if you own a dog would you kick it every day just to make sure the dog knows who is the boss? If you do, you end up with a damaged dog. Dog trainers know that to achieve the best result you have to be stern, but also fair and compassionate, a dog will go to the end of the world for his master out of love not out of fear.

I don't believe I've suggested anything contrary to this. But I do have one little question? What does it mean to be 'fair' to a dog?
Do you share your steak 50-50?

If you want a fat, lazy and selfish dog you do.

 

[Caitlynne]

I tried to stay out of this thread, basically because EVERYONE is *right* here. A ply needs to be listened to when she communicates (or at least be given a time when she can communicate her concerns about her submission) and a PLY pretty much sets ALL the rules once that collar goes on the ply. There is no denying all the opinions expressed here have validity.

I'm going to go way out of a limb and speak to what I see as the real problem being expressed by the thread originator. Sweetie, some of this stuff should have been sorted out before you submitted. And if his behavior is a problem for you, then you need to solve it in terms of YOUR submission, NOT in terms of whether or not the PLY is right or wrong. It's NOT his behavior that is in question, it is your ability to submit to it.

If a Dominant repeatedly taking you (sexually) unceremoniously is a problem for you to submit to, then it is *your* problem. I'd explore it in those terms if I were you.

Perhaps a period of discovery would have been appropriate prior to complete submission. You might have discovered then, that he would pretty much take his property whenever and however he chose. And if this was something that made you unhappy, you'd have discovered it prior to accepting a collar.

All pyl's want to be dominated in some fashion or another, pretty much all the time. But, PYL's just aren't at our disposal for that, now are they. Time and communication brings these issues out and both parties can determine if behavior like this (Dominants' just sexually using you) is something that simply can't be tolerated or if it is completely within one's comfort zone. It's called compatibility.

Should a PYL pay attention to his property? Well, one would hope so. Property can get broken in spirit and then how much fun is Domination? We like to be valued and petted, no doubt about it, but part of what gets us our praise, is obedience. See where I'm going here?

I remember EB saying that female subs were pretty invested in their orgasms, and this kind of question, seems to bare out her POV. Our orgasms aren't 'ours' now are they? If they are, and we are due them, then is it really D/s or just some role playing where the bottom expects to get 'hers'. I'm just putting this out here, not because anyone is wrong here, but because I think another POV needs to be represented here.

Would I have a problem with a PYL who acted like this ALL the time? Yes, I would. It's boring to do the same thing ALL the time, even if that is being tied up each and every time sex occurs. But then, my boredom isn't really an issue either now is it? Some of these issues I would have discovered had I took my time piror to submission. It is a waste of my time and MORE importantly the PYL's not to discover if I have some basic compatibility with his whims and ways.

If this isn't just a case of getting into a situation before you fully understood what you were getting into, then my apologies ahead of time.

If you simply are troubled by what is going on, my suggestion is to communicate, communicate, communicate.. And in this situation, I would communicate that YOU are having trouble submitting in this regard. I would NOT suggest to your PYL that it is some failing of HIS. It may indeed be a compatibility issue, but if it is, you need to communicate and find this out.

Spending time thinking that a real Master would not do this, is futile. Masters do as they please, that's why we pick them so carefully. We'll be submitting to their will and we better be somewhat compatible with the whims of that will. You know what I mean?

Your PYL might be pushing this in you deliberately with his behavior. He might see this as an area you need to work on and has chosen this way to bring out your emotions on it. He might just be taking what is his. Who knows?

If you have a problem with it, then you need to ask for a time when you can talk to him about your problem accepting this and submitting to it. Then be ready to accept his decision on it.

~ cait

 

[rosco rathbone]

And I have to concur with the notion that while it is my duty to accept what C wants, even if it's dull and boring for me... he equally shouldn't be surprised if I'm counting bumps on the ceiling while he's doing his thing.

Truer words were never said, and this sums up a whole lotta shit.