Everything you always wanted to know about submissives..but were afraid to ask..
- Thread starter ~Dream~
- Start date
James Blandings
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 798
Re: With Artful's permission,
See, but that's the problem. If *I* (the reader) am going to learn everything I ever wanted to know about submissives on your thread, that implies that *you*(the threadstarter) are going to be the one teaching it, and as you have limited experience, that can, and I think did, raise people's hackles.
Artful's dream said:with respect to killer's comments .. good use of language always works for me..whereas: YOU=MEANING THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT ARE READING THIS THREAD LOL
See, but that's the problem. If *I* (the reader) am going to learn everything I ever wanted to know about submissives on your thread, that implies that *you*(the threadstarter) are going to be the one teaching it, and as you have limited experience, that can, and I think did, raise people's hackles.
~Dream~
Loving My Soulmate Scott
- Joined
- May 21, 2002
- Posts
- 18,275
With Artful's Permission,
ok ok here goes 1 more time...when i titled the thread everything you always wanted to know etc..i meant for it to be designated to (the public) so they'd feel free to come talk or find out info about submissives as i had not from ME,persay, but from the thread itself..geez did THAT make any sense? lol now even I am confused lmfao
ok ok here goes 1 more time...when i titled the thread everything you always wanted to know etc..i meant for it to be designated to (the public) so they'd feel free to come talk or find out info about submissives as i had not from ME,persay, but from the thread itself..geez did THAT make any sense? lol now even I am confused lmfao
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
- Posts
- 25,603
Beyond the fact that I am completely floored that you would presume to teach me something about English, no, you haven't cleared anything up.
You erred. Acknowledge it, even if it's just to yourself, so you can learn from it and move on.
Intentions are fine things, but they don't have anything to do with the actual meaning in your words. Interpretation is left to the reader and they only see your words, not your intentions.
You erred. Acknowledge it, even if it's just to yourself, so you can learn from it and move on.
Intentions are fine things, but they don't have anything to do with the actual meaning in your words. Interpretation is left to the reader and they only see your words, not your intentions.
RisiaSkye
Artistic
- Joined
- May 1, 2000
- Posts
- 4,387
Re: With Artful's permission,
I should preface the screed to follow by mentioning that I've just spent more than an hour defending the possibilities of online relationships on another thread. So, I'm not at all someone you can just lump into the pile of people you may think are "out to get you" for some reason.
Please know that in what I'm about to say, I mean nothing but the best. My intent is to raise awareness a little bit about the differences between online and R/L BDSM, and the special care that one must take in order to be understood by all.
Also, as KM stated, one looking to learn about submission would be better served by starting a thread indicating an interest in learning and exchanging ideas, rather than a thread advertising answers to unspoken but common questions. Think about the allusion you're making; the book Everything you always wanted to know about sex *but were afraid to ask was a best-selling and incredibly well known sex manual. It was meant to offer sound information about difficult topics. Referencing the title indicates that you mean to do a similar thing--offer answers. Hopefully, you can see how one entering this thread with both a good deal of experience and the expectations the title creates might feel misled. In fact, they may even feel as though the (self-proclaimed) newbie was posturing, pretending experience/information/answers they don't--and can't yet--actually have.
Second, many factors conspire to make this posts and others like it seem like the words of a less-than-well informed person. Again, this is emphatically not meant as an attack, but rather as an honest answer to the questions Artful & his ladies have asked. Between the grammatical and syntax errors, it's already hard to read. Add to that the ending filled with giggling and self-reference, and it becomes not only difficult to read, but also suggests that the poster doesn't mean to be read as serious in the post. And finally, ending with the reference to "cherish[ing] above all others" a person who's brand-new to one's world makes it sound as though love and commitment in D/s bonds is a thing to be taken lightly. Something that deep and requiring of communication and built trust develops and takes such firm hold so quickly? Not for most people.
If there is something to learn about submission from all of this, it's that one's submission is not a thing to be taken lightly or undervalued, even by the submissive him- or her-self. It is in many ways the greatest thing you have to give. Don't be surprised if people expect you to treat it as such, because when you don't you not only devalue yourself, you trivialize something that many people see as a central component of their very identity, and the cornerstone of their sexual and romantic lives.
With all due respect to Artful and his ladies, I don't think that the turf-war between online and RL players has been one-sided. It's tough *not* to defend something that has meaning for you, especially when it feels like it's under attack--and from people who don't really understand. That same feeling of defensiveness and hurt drives both sides of this, I think. Rather than argue over who's got the right idea, can't we discuss the variations, and then leave it to each person to figure out which ones work for them?
I should preface the screed to follow by mentioning that I've just spent more than an hour defending the possibilities of online relationships on another thread. So, I'm not at all someone you can just lump into the pile of people you may think are "out to get you" for some reason.
Please know that in what I'm about to say, I mean nothing but the best. My intent is to raise awareness a little bit about the differences between online and R/L BDSM, and the special care that one must take in order to be understood by all.
To many people in RL BDSM relationships, the word "Master" or "Mistress" is the utmost honorific, a title earned after *much* time and energy has gone into the relationship--if ever. Even then, some (myself included) shy away from such titles, partially because of their connotations of *real* slavery and exploitation, and partly because it suggests a level of submission we do not truly feel. Thus, to see someone use the name "Master" for one a person has only known for a week seems not only misleading, but somewhat trivializing--because it seems to take very lightly something that many of us take more seriously than wedding vows.
Also, as KM stated, one looking to learn about submission would be better served by starting a thread indicating an interest in learning and exchanging ideas, rather than a thread advertising answers to unspoken but common questions. Think about the allusion you're making; the book Everything you always wanted to know about sex *but were afraid to ask was a best-selling and incredibly well known sex manual. It was meant to offer sound information about difficult topics. Referencing the title indicates that you mean to do a similar thing--offer answers. Hopefully, you can see how one entering this thread with both a good deal of experience and the expectations the title creates might feel misled. In fact, they may even feel as though the (self-proclaimed) newbie was posturing, pretending experience/information/answers they don't--and can't yet--actually have.
First, the post is hostile and intentionally provocative. Such things rarely if ever generate useful and intelligent conversation.I came to learn lady..are you qualified to teach me anything besides animosity or hate? damn i think i get enough of that in the real world too tyvm ..100 plus and going strong... hehe
Second, many factors conspire to make this posts and others like it seem like the words of a less-than-well informed person. Again, this is emphatically not meant as an attack, but rather as an honest answer to the questions Artful & his ladies have asked. Between the grammatical and syntax errors, it's already hard to read. Add to that the ending filled with giggling and self-reference, and it becomes not only difficult to read, but also suggests that the poster doesn't mean to be read as serious in the post. And finally, ending with the reference to "cherish[ing] above all others" a person who's brand-new to one's world makes it sound as though love and commitment in D/s bonds is a thing to be taken lightly. Something that deep and requiring of communication and built trust develops and takes such firm hold so quickly? Not for most people.
If there is something to learn about submission from all of this, it's that one's submission is not a thing to be taken lightly or undervalued, even by the submissive him- or her-self. It is in many ways the greatest thing you have to give. Don't be surprised if people expect you to treat it as such, because when you don't you not only devalue yourself, you trivialize something that many people see as a central component of their very identity, and the cornerstone of their sexual and romantic lives.
With all due respect to Artful and his ladies, I don't think that the turf-war between online and RL players has been one-sided. It's tough *not* to defend something that has meaning for you, especially when it feels like it's under attack--and from people who don't really understand. That same feeling of defensiveness and hurt drives both sides of this, I think. Rather than argue over who's got the right idea, can't we discuss the variations, and then leave it to each person to figure out which ones work for them?
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT RisiaSkye
Rather than argue over who's got the right idea, can't we discuss the variations, and then leave it to each person to figure out which ones work for them?
****************************************************
I speak only for myself,...but I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement you have made. I agree also that the thread title is SOMEWHAT misleading,...but I don't REALLY see how it should be taken as "PROBLEMATIC". Anyone reading the thread from the start, middle, or even the last post would readily ascertain dream was NOT offering advice,...but seeking information on submissiveness. Some questions came forth, some information was given from experienced R/L situations, as I am sure dream intended. However,...due to the blatant attacks on this thread, I will have dream end it,...and if possible have the thread deleted. The potential value of this thread has been completely ruined by Cym, and others who ONLY posted here for there own gain. As I posted publicly on this thread, "Some of us,...don't claim to anything BUT L/D relationships,...others of us DO have REAL TIME skin to skin experiences, you have shown us NOTHING but a BIASED prejudicial attitude if we post ANYTHING other than politically correct, factual experiences of REAL TIME episodes. If that is what you truly wish for this forum to be,...hell,...just tell us,...we will be gone faster than a bolt of lightning. This particular thread that dream started,...I thought would be INVALUABLE to newcomers wishing more information on the subject of submissiveness, but if you think it an improper topic for discussion,*YES* ~LONG DISTANCE~ then delete it, we won't offer you any resistance. If your attack is solely on me,(yes, I see it ONLY as an attack)then I won't post in your forum anymore. Please let me know,...either publicly or privately,...it does not matter which to me! "
Cym has UNDULY and PUBLICLY done her BEST to invalidate a thread started by a relatively NEW person to the world of BDSM. Others have blatantly jumped on her coattail for the "Magic Carpet Ride". There simply is NO excuse for THIS kind of public display by a Moderator in ANY forum. Had Cym only requested in a private PM for dream to alter the thread title to one which she approved of, knowing that dream was a NEW poster in this forum, instead of showing how, <ahem>, (cough),superior she was in knowledge, etiquette, and REAL LIFE experience, this outward display of ANIMOSITY would never have taken place. Be assured,...I will be forgotten,...but the *TRUTH* won't. It will remain that an injustice has been done here,...a wrong against a less powerful participator,... a NEW person TRYING to participate in a responsible manner by having a thread titled after her INTERESTS,(albeit titled incorrectly and *PROBLEMATIC*) I am ashamed I EVER contributed posts to this forum. Let us not forget the veiled threat by ~UNREGISTERED GUEST~ to having the thread DELETED! I wonder what mistake a thread starter would need do, to have their thread deleted? What? Is that the hoofbeats of the Lit-Lux-Lan I hear pounding in the distance? OMG, I must certainly flee their wrath,...for I know my punctuation will not be TOLERATED, the punishment I fear, would be MORE than I could bear! Driven insane by the approaching sounds reverberating within my skull, I retreat and stumble backward, seeking a safe haven from that which is unknown. Flee artful FLEE, comes the dire warning from somewhere without, and so, with haste, he picks himself UP from the sacred ground which he had inadvertently tread, and limps away,...beaten with tongue lashings, and all sorts of tools, which are common in such a
"HOLY WAR."
Rather than argue over who's got the right idea, can't we discuss the variations, and then leave it to each person to figure out which ones work for them?
****************************************************
I speak only for myself,...but I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement you have made. I agree also that the thread title is SOMEWHAT misleading,...but I don't REALLY see how it should be taken as "PROBLEMATIC". Anyone reading the thread from the start, middle, or even the last post would readily ascertain dream was NOT offering advice,...but seeking information on submissiveness. Some questions came forth, some information was given from experienced R/L situations, as I am sure dream intended. However,...due to the blatant attacks on this thread, I will have dream end it,...and if possible have the thread deleted. The potential value of this thread has been completely ruined by Cym, and others who ONLY posted here for there own gain. As I posted publicly on this thread, "Some of us,...don't claim to anything BUT L/D relationships,...others of us DO have REAL TIME skin to skin experiences, you have shown us NOTHING but a BIASED prejudicial attitude if we post ANYTHING other than politically correct, factual experiences of REAL TIME episodes. If that is what you truly wish for this forum to be,...hell,...just tell us,...we will be gone faster than a bolt of lightning. This particular thread that dream started,...I thought would be INVALUABLE to newcomers wishing more information on the subject of submissiveness, but if you think it an improper topic for discussion,*YES* ~LONG DISTANCE~ then delete it, we won't offer you any resistance. If your attack is solely on me,(yes, I see it ONLY as an attack)then I won't post in your forum anymore. Please let me know,...either publicly or privately,...it does not matter which to me! "
Cym has UNDULY and PUBLICLY done her BEST to invalidate a thread started by a relatively NEW person to the world of BDSM. Others have blatantly jumped on her coattail for the "Magic Carpet Ride". There simply is NO excuse for THIS kind of public display by a Moderator in ANY forum. Had Cym only requested in a private PM for dream to alter the thread title to one which she approved of, knowing that dream was a NEW poster in this forum, instead of showing how, <ahem>, (cough),superior she was in knowledge, etiquette, and REAL LIFE experience, this outward display of ANIMOSITY would never have taken place. Be assured,...I will be forgotten,...but the *TRUTH* won't. It will remain that an injustice has been done here,...a wrong against a less powerful participator,... a NEW person TRYING to participate in a responsible manner by having a thread titled after her INTERESTS,(albeit titled incorrectly and *PROBLEMATIC*) I am ashamed I EVER contributed posts to this forum. Let us not forget the veiled threat by ~UNREGISTERED GUEST~ to having the thread DELETED! I wonder what mistake a thread starter would need do, to have their thread deleted? What? Is that the hoofbeats of the Lit-Lux-Lan I hear pounding in the distance? OMG, I must certainly flee their wrath,...for I know my punctuation will not be TOLERATED, the punishment I fear, would be MORE than I could bear! Driven insane by the approaching sounds reverberating within my skull, I retreat and stumble backward, seeking a safe haven from that which is unknown. Flee artful FLEE, comes the dire warning from somewhere without, and so, with haste, he picks himself UP from the sacred ground which he had inadvertently tread, and limps away,...beaten with tongue lashings, and all sorts of tools, which are common in such a
"HOLY WAR."
CarolineOh
Newbie Phase Two
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2002
- Posts
- 4,762
Really, Artful, that's just way too dramatic.
kayte
This Was My Favorite Toy
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Posts
- 135,693
My My !
Greetings all !!!
I checked this thread out when it first started and I thought then, as I do now, that it is a good idea.
R/L responsibilities and recovery from a computer crash have left me playing catch up with many threads of interest. I came to this one this morning and am quite taken aback by the acrimonious tone that now seems to pervade the thread. For example anonymous posts have no place. Errors happen and the adult, comes back and identifes themself that they neglected to log in.
Well enough about that. I have read the posts to this thread a couple of times now. I am very saddened that something dream, started has upset, to the extent that is has, those I have looked to for information. I've not seen attacks like I have here.
Specifically cym's and skye's posts have caused me to re-evaluate where I place them for obtaining reasonable and valid information on D/s relationships in the future.
At this point I feel that will be of no consequence to them, or others watching this thread.
Please all. Be careful, strive to be happy.
Huggs and Kisses to my dear friends Art and dream. I love you both.
Greetings all !!!
I checked this thread out when it first started and I thought then, as I do now, that it is a good idea.
R/L responsibilities and recovery from a computer crash have left me playing catch up with many threads of interest. I came to this one this morning and am quite taken aback by the acrimonious tone that now seems to pervade the thread. For example anonymous posts have no place. Errors happen and the adult, comes back and identifes themself that they neglected to log in.
Well enough about that. I have read the posts to this thread a couple of times now. I am very saddened that something dream, started has upset, to the extent that is has, those I have looked to for information. I've not seen attacks like I have here.
Specifically cym's and skye's posts have caused me to re-evaluate where I place them for obtaining reasonable and valid information on D/s relationships in the future.
At this point I feel that will be of no consequence to them, or others watching this thread.
Please all. Be careful, strive to be happy.
Huggs and Kisses to my dear friends Art and dream. I love you both.
~Dream~
Loving My Soulmate Scott
- Joined
- May 21, 2002
- Posts
- 18,275
With Artful's permission,
Alas ,i fear my poor thread is headed to cyberdust..either by the hand of Cym who still doesnt even know me but dislikes me for some reason,or by My Master,in His infinite wisdom concerned for my feelings,as He has ALWAYS been and shall ever be..thank you sis Kayte for your lovely post..i know I have quite alot of true friends here at lit..Quite a lot.. and just so ya know KayteWE LOVE YOU TOO * *
Alas ,i fear my poor thread is headed to cyberdust..either by the hand of Cym who still doesnt even know me but dislikes me for some reason,or by My Master,in His infinite wisdom concerned for my feelings,as He has ALWAYS been and shall ever be..thank you sis Kayte for your lovely post..i know I have quite alot of true friends here at lit..Quite a lot.. and just so ya know KayteWE LOVE YOU TOO *
*
FdiskIt
Really Experienced
- Joined
- May 1, 2002
- Posts
- 121
In my humble opinion.
I have found this thread interesting. (For the most part that is)
"Warning my grammaticism is far from perfect, though I take criticism and corrections well."
I am new to the BDSM scene, and I had no idea that there was any difference in online and R/L behaviors. Now I know that there is. My current experience is R/L. The thread could have used a different title sure, but why get into the argument about woulda, shoulda, or coulda. Once you begin to read through the thread you may come to the conclusion that it is an area to post your questions. That is the conclusion that I came to. Once you determine what you think the thread is about you can continue to read and possibly get something from it or you could leave the thread. Not to difficult. Now if something is posted you don't agree with you can give your opinion, and it should then be taken as the opinion of the person placing that post. Not as an attack on the person being replied to. We need to try to keep level heads when reading and replying to these posts. We are all just trying to enjoy our lifestyles in the way we see fit for ourselves. This board allows us to express what we enjoy and learn from what others enjoy, not start fights about it.
Please just open your hearts and accept one another for whom and what you are.
I have found this thread interesting. (For the most part that is)
"Warning my grammaticism is far from perfect, though I take criticism and corrections well."
I am new to the BDSM scene, and I had no idea that there was any difference in online and R/L behaviors. Now I know that there is. My current experience is R/L. The thread could have used a different title sure, but why get into the argument about woulda, shoulda, or coulda. Once you begin to read through the thread you may come to the conclusion that it is an area to post your questions. That is the conclusion that I came to. Once you determine what you think the thread is about you can continue to read and possibly get something from it or you could leave the thread. Not to difficult. Now if something is posted you don't agree with you can give your opinion, and it should then be taken as the opinion of the person placing that post. Not as an attack on the person being replied to. We need to try to keep level heads when reading and replying to these posts. We are all just trying to enjoy our lifestyles in the way we see fit for ourselves. This board allows us to express what we enjoy and learn from what others enjoy, not start fights about it.
Please just open your hearts and accept one another for whom and what you are.
RisiaSkye
Artistic
- Joined
- May 1, 2000
- Posts
- 4,387
Re: My My !
What? I spent over two hours yesterday defending online BDSMers, and first I get inaccurately attributed with someone else's words ("problematic"), then called part of the pseudo-KKK, and now I don't have reasonable information. If that doesn't just beat all, I don't know what does.
Fine, I give. I'm an evil bad bad person for trying to explain each side to the other in all this. Serves me right for trying to mediate, I guess.
kayte said:
What? I spent over two hours yesterday defending online BDSMers, and first I get inaccurately attributed with someone else's words ("problematic"), then called part of the pseudo-KKK, and now I don't have reasonable information. If that doesn't just beat all, I don't know what does.Fine, I give. I'm an evil bad bad person for trying to explain each side to the other in all this. Serves me right for trying to mediate, I guess.
RisiaSkye
Artistic
- Joined
- May 1, 2000
- Posts
- 4,387
copied & cross posted from JB's Online thread
Here's what really gets me about my suddenly being viewed as some kind of RL Nazi--I spend a fair amount of time and diplomacy trying to get actual conversation going between Onliners and RL people, rather than foster this kind of pointless animosity. Given the response I've gotten, I feel rather foolish for having bothered.
Whatever. Anyway, this is what I posted (partially *to* cymbidia) in defense of Online BDSM and its participants.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, the exquisite fucking irony.
Here's what really gets me about my suddenly being viewed as some kind of RL Nazi--I spend a fair amount of time and diplomacy trying to get actual conversation going between Onliners and RL people, rather than foster this kind of pointless animosity. Given the response I've gotten, I feel rather foolish for having bothered.
Whatever. Anyway, this is what I posted (partially *to* cymbidia) in defense of Online BDSM and its participants.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, the exquisite fucking irony.
James Blandings
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 798
I was the one who used the word "problematic", and I own my words. neither cym nor Risia should bear responsibility for what anything I say.
I stand by what I said. Problematic is as politely as I can describe the absurdity of someone who has been a cyber-sub for one week titling a thread "Everything you always wanted to know about submissives".
I am trying really hard to buy into the notion that the experience of online players should be considered the equivalent of those with real time experience, but this thread sure doesn't help. I don't think it's a coincidence when the people who think chatroom playacting is real DS are the same ones who emotionally over react whenever their views are challenged.
I stand by what I said. Problematic is as politely as I can describe the absurdity of someone who has been a cyber-sub for one week titling a thread "Everything you always wanted to know about submissives".
I am trying really hard to buy into the notion that the experience of online players should be considered the equivalent of those with real time experience, but this thread sure doesn't help. I don't think it's a coincidence when the people who think chatroom playacting is real DS are the same ones who emotionally over react whenever their views are challenged.
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
Re: copied & cross posted from JB's Online thread
RisiaSkye,
First let me apologise for any of my friends who may have misunderstood my post, as evidently you had also misunderstood it, and mistakenly jumped to the conclusion you were a PART of our problems here. YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM! The first part of my post was directed to you. As follows:
*ONE*
quoting Risia:
"Rather than argue over who's got the right idea, can't we discuss the variations, and then leave it to each person to figure out which ones work for them?"
****************************************************
quoting artful:
"I speak only for myself,...but I agree whole heartedly with the above statement you have made."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can clearly see why it was misinterpreted by all,...and I recognise the fact it was my error, but that was the only part of my post that I intended to make reference to your guiding hand. I have a great deal of respect for your efforts in moderating this forum.
**************************************************
*TWO*
The following made reference to:James Blanding
I agree also that the thread title is SOMEWHAT misleading,...but I don't REALLY see how it should be taken as "PROBLEMATIC". Anyone reading the
thread from the start, middle, or even the last post would readily ascertain dream was NOT offering advice,...but seeking information on submissiveness.
**************************************************
*THREE*
The following statement was made only to justify the potential worthiness of the thread and validate what was to be posted as number FOUR!
Some questions came forth, some information was given from experienced R/L situations, as I am sure dream intended. However,...due to the blatant attacks on this thread, I will have dream end it,...and if possible have the thread deleted.
The potential value of this thread has been completely ruined by Cym, and others who ONLY posted here for there own gain. As I posted publicly on this thread,
"Some of us,...don't claim to anything BUT L/D relationships,...others of
us DO have REAL TIME skin to skin experiences, you have shown us
NOTHING but a BIASED prejudicial attitude if we post ANYTHING other
than politically correct, factual experiences of REAL TIME episodes. If that
is what you truly wish for this forum to be,...hell,...just tell us,...we will be
gone faster than a bolt of lightning. This particular thread that dream
started,...I thought would be INVALUABLE to newcomers wishing more
information on the subject of submissiveness, but if you think it an
improper topic for discussion,*YES* ~LONG DISTANCE~ then delete it,
we won't offer you any resistance. If your attack is solely on me,(yes, I
see it ONLY as an attack)then I won't post in your forum anymore.
Please let me know,...either publicly or privately,...it does not matter
which to me! "
**************************************************
*FOUR*
The following statements were meant to identify not only what has taken place, but those who were responsible. Cymbidia being the leader of the clan. I never made reference to "NAZI'S", but I did make reference to the post by UNREGISTERED GUEST as representing the cowardly, masked, unidentifiable Ku Klux Klan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cym has UNDULY and PUBLICLY done her BEST to invalidate a thread started by a
relatively NEW person to the world of BDSM. Others have blatantly jumped on her
coattail for the "Magic Carpet Ride". There simply is NO excuse for THIS kind of
public display by a Moderator in ANY forum. Had Cym only requested in a private
PM for dream to alter the thread title to one which she approved of, knowing that
dream was a NEW poster in this forum, instead of showing how, <ahem>,
(cough),superior she was in knowledge, etiquette, and REAL LIFE experience, this
outward display of ANIMOSITY would never have taken place. Be assured,...I will
be forgotten,...but the *TRUTH* won't. It will remain that an injustice has been
done here,...a wrong against a less powerful participator,... a NEW person TRYING
to participate in a responsible manner by having a thread titled after her
INTERESTS,(albeit titled incorrectly and *PROBLEMATIC*) I am ashamed I EVER
contributed posts to this forum. Let us not forget the veiled threat by
~UNREGISTERED GUEST~ to having the thread DELETED! I wonder what mistake a
thread starter would need do, to have their thread deleted? What? Is that the
hoofbeats of the Lit-Lux-Lan I hear pounding in the distance? OMG, I must
certainly flee their wrath,...for I know my punctuation will not be TOLERATED, the
punishment I fear, would be MORE than I could bear! Driven insane by the
approaching sounds reverberating within my skull, I retreat and stumble backward,
seeking a safe haven from that which is unknown. Flee artful FLEE, comes the dire
warning from somewhere without, and so, with haste, he picks himself UP from
the sacred ground which he had inadvertently tread, and limps away,...beaten
with tongue lashings, and all sorts of tools, which are common in such a
"HOLY WAR."
**************************************************
Knowing there are all sorts of mistakes in this post, as are in every post I make, I apologise to those whom I offend. I sincerely apologise to RisiaSkye for the misinterpretation of my prior post,...it WAS my fault, but I hope this post corrects my error.
Hopefully this will be the end of the matter,and no further posts will be made on this thread. Dream has a sincere desire to learn more about BDSM, but due to the cynical, and UNREASONABLE treatment she has received, I doubt she will post here again.
In explanation, as a part of her ONLINE training, ...she addresses me as Master. Also, at the top of her posts, you will see:...With Artful's permission,...that is ALSO a part of her training. Though not REAL LIFE, ONLINE BDSM is a REAL relationship between two or more people, just as "munches" are. The MAJOR difference being that it takes a lot more effort, a lot more dedication, and a lot more sacrifice to keep it together. James Blanding,...if you think not,...try holding one together yourself.
In closing,...I wish to express my gratitude to RisiaSkye, and others like her,...who are doing a fantastic job at furthering the real BDSM WORLD, which does include LONG DISTANCE, and/or ONLINE relationships.
RisiaSkye said:Here's what really gets me about my suddenly being viewed as some kind of RL Nazi--I spend a fair amount of time and diplomacy trying to get actual conversation going between Onliners and RL people, rather than foster this kind of pointless animosity. Given the response I've gotten, I feel rather foolish for having bothered.
Whatever. Anyway, this is what I posted (partially *to* cymbidia) in defense of Online BDSM and its participants.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, the exquisite fucking irony.
RisiaSkye,
First let me apologise for any of my friends who may have misunderstood my post, as evidently you had also misunderstood it, and mistakenly jumped to the conclusion you were a PART of our problems here. YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM! The first part of my post was directed to you. As follows:
*ONE*
quoting Risia:
"Rather than argue over who's got the right idea, can't we discuss the variations, and then leave it to each person to figure out which ones work for them?"
****************************************************
quoting artful:
"I speak only for myself,...but I agree whole heartedly with the above statement you have made."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can clearly see why it was misinterpreted by all,...and I recognise the fact it was my error, but that was the only part of my post that I intended to make reference to your guiding hand. I have a great deal of respect for your efforts in moderating this forum.
**************************************************
*TWO*
The following made reference to:James Blanding
I agree also that the thread title is SOMEWHAT misleading,...but I don't REALLY see how it should be taken as "PROBLEMATIC". Anyone reading the
thread from the start, middle, or even the last post would readily ascertain dream was NOT offering advice,...but seeking information on submissiveness.
**************************************************
*THREE*
The following statement was made only to justify the potential worthiness of the thread and validate what was to be posted as number FOUR!
Some questions came forth, some information was given from experienced R/L situations, as I am sure dream intended. However,...due to the blatant attacks on this thread, I will have dream end it,...and if possible have the thread deleted.
The potential value of this thread has been completely ruined by Cym, and others who ONLY posted here for there own gain. As I posted publicly on this thread,
"Some of us,...don't claim to anything BUT L/D relationships,...others of
us DO have REAL TIME skin to skin experiences, you have shown us
NOTHING but a BIASED prejudicial attitude if we post ANYTHING other
than politically correct, factual experiences of REAL TIME episodes. If that
is what you truly wish for this forum to be,...hell,...just tell us,...we will be
gone faster than a bolt of lightning. This particular thread that dream
started,...I thought would be INVALUABLE to newcomers wishing more
information on the subject of submissiveness, but if you think it an
improper topic for discussion,*YES* ~LONG DISTANCE~ then delete it,
we won't offer you any resistance. If your attack is solely on me,(yes, I
see it ONLY as an attack)then I won't post in your forum anymore.
Please let me know,...either publicly or privately,...it does not matter
which to me! "
**************************************************
*FOUR*
The following statements were meant to identify not only what has taken place, but those who were responsible. Cymbidia being the leader of the clan. I never made reference to "NAZI'S", but I did make reference to the post by UNREGISTERED GUEST as representing the cowardly, masked, unidentifiable Ku Klux Klan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cym has UNDULY and PUBLICLY done her BEST to invalidate a thread started by a
relatively NEW person to the world of BDSM. Others have blatantly jumped on her
coattail for the "Magic Carpet Ride". There simply is NO excuse for THIS kind of
public display by a Moderator in ANY forum. Had Cym only requested in a private
PM for dream to alter the thread title to one which she approved of, knowing that
dream was a NEW poster in this forum, instead of showing how, <ahem>,
(cough),superior she was in knowledge, etiquette, and REAL LIFE experience, this
outward display of ANIMOSITY would never have taken place. Be assured,...I will
be forgotten,...but the *TRUTH* won't. It will remain that an injustice has been
done here,...a wrong against a less powerful participator,... a NEW person TRYING
to participate in a responsible manner by having a thread titled after her
INTERESTS,(albeit titled incorrectly and *PROBLEMATIC*) I am ashamed I EVER
contributed posts to this forum. Let us not forget the veiled threat by
~UNREGISTERED GUEST~ to having the thread DELETED! I wonder what mistake a
thread starter would need do, to have their thread deleted? What? Is that the
hoofbeats of the Lit-Lux-Lan I hear pounding in the distance? OMG, I must
certainly flee their wrath,...for I know my punctuation will not be TOLERATED, the
punishment I fear, would be MORE than I could bear! Driven insane by the
approaching sounds reverberating within my skull, I retreat and stumble backward,
seeking a safe haven from that which is unknown. Flee artful FLEE, comes the dire
warning from somewhere without, and so, with haste, he picks himself UP from
the sacred ground which he had inadvertently tread, and limps away,...beaten
with tongue lashings, and all sorts of tools, which are common in such a
"HOLY WAR."
**************************************************
Knowing there are all sorts of mistakes in this post, as are in every post I make, I apologise to those whom I offend. I sincerely apologise to RisiaSkye for the misinterpretation of my prior post,...it WAS my fault, but I hope this post corrects my error.
Hopefully this will be the end of the matter,and no further posts will be made on this thread. Dream has a sincere desire to learn more about BDSM, but due to the cynical, and UNREASONABLE treatment she has received, I doubt she will post here again.
In explanation, as a part of her ONLINE training, ...she addresses me as Master. Also, at the top of her posts, you will see:...With Artful's permission,...that is ALSO a part of her training. Though not REAL LIFE, ONLINE BDSM is a REAL relationship between two or more people, just as "munches" are. The MAJOR difference being that it takes a lot more effort, a lot more dedication, and a lot more sacrifice to keep it together. James Blanding,...if you think not,...try holding one together yourself.
In closing,...I wish to express my gratitude to RisiaSkye, and others like her,...who are doing a fantastic job at furthering the real BDSM WORLD, which does include LONG DISTANCE, and/or ONLINE relationships.
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
- Posts
- 25,603
Dream cannot alter the title to the thread. She cannot delete the thread. She cannot delete her own posts. No one can. You say she may have been misleading. The fact was that the thread title is misleading. I believe that the only issue involved with the entire thread title debacle was that some might find it a slap in the face and highly insulting. It wasn't anything to do with Dream's intentions, which were good, just a momentary bit of poor judgement. Like everyone gets.
Threads don't belong to anyone. They don't belong to the threadstarters. They belong to everyone who posts there. You cannot dictate who will answer what and in what way. You can try, but you're only going to insult everyone when you do.
Literotica is anti-censorship. Period. There are a few things you cannot do at this board. Spam, child porn, copyright infringement, etc., however, you get to say anything you want to. The corollary is so does everyone else.
Laurel, the Webmistress, has already considered the issue of Unregistered. Trolls have done far worse on this site than that little rather polite for a troll blip in this thread. She's decided that the benefits people get from being able to post without registering outweighs any discomfort we get from dealing with trolls. Why? It's nothing to create a new fake identity and troll anyway.
Apparently you don't read really read any threads but your own. Risia is not the only person who thinks that cymbidia behaved badly and told her so. To her face. In public. Risia is not the only person who thinks that strictly online BDSM oriented people have something valuable to offer.
I am not the grammar and punctuation police. If I were this thread would be gone already. I have not criticized anyone's punctuation, spelling, or posting habits here and I will not do so. If you read my thread on posting etiquette and decided it was a direct attack against you, then you have a problem all by yourself. I created that thread in a direct effort to help people who come here.
This forum has established mores in posting and they don't match those in the playground. The playground is playful and this forum is more seriously inclined. This is not going to change just because you prefer it otherwise. It was an established community before you got here. Communities don't change to suit newcomers. Newcomers either decide to fit or they don't. If they fit, the community changes in some ways but not in others.
I posted that thread so people like Dream could come here and find something that might help them understand how things are done here. Why? So their posts will be taken seriously. It helps to know the traffic laws before you drive.
I like Dream. If I didn't like her, I wouldn't try to help her by offering a reason as to why this thread was attacked or by posting those damned guidelines. If I didn't like her, I'd want her to never be taken seriously so I can laugh at her. I do not do that. She's a sincere person. She seems to be pretty smart and she's honestly nice to people.
Dream has no BDSM experience, but she has something important. Sincerity. A desire to learn like the rest of us here. This forum was created so people could learn about BDSM and be a part of a community that's oriented to learning about BDSM. It was not created to play out whip me games online. That's what the SRP is for.
I think Dream has a great deal to offer us because she's actually interested in learning about herself and her new sexuality. There is a lot that I can and hope to learn from her.
Not everyone is going to agree with you. Not everyone is going to like you. There will be people who find your arrogance nothing short of insulting. You don't like me, do you? Same principle in action. You either deal with it or you don't. Your choice.
Yes, you've been persecuted on this thread. You've also been provoking to the entire forum. You've made no effort to try to become part of the forum or try to understand the forum. You've simply expected this forum to bend to your whims, wants, and desires with little or no thought given to the others here.
There is an uncomplicated and adult route to dealing with what happened on this thread. It beggars the imagination as to why you didn't take it.
If you have something to say about me, say it to my face. I respect people who are honest, have some integrity, and have the balls to criticize me to my face. I don't respect snideness and backhanded references. It makes you very weak and I don't respect that kind of cowardliness. I may not like it and I will behave badly, but I will respect it.
Threads don't belong to anyone. They don't belong to the threadstarters. They belong to everyone who posts there. You cannot dictate who will answer what and in what way. You can try, but you're only going to insult everyone when you do.
Literotica is anti-censorship. Period. There are a few things you cannot do at this board. Spam, child porn, copyright infringement, etc., however, you get to say anything you want to. The corollary is so does everyone else.
Laurel, the Webmistress, has already considered the issue of Unregistered. Trolls have done far worse on this site than that little rather polite for a troll blip in this thread. She's decided that the benefits people get from being able to post without registering outweighs any discomfort we get from dealing with trolls. Why? It's nothing to create a new fake identity and troll anyway.
Apparently you don't read really read any threads but your own. Risia is not the only person who thinks that cymbidia behaved badly and told her so. To her face. In public. Risia is not the only person who thinks that strictly online BDSM oriented people have something valuable to offer.
I am not the grammar and punctuation police. If I were this thread would be gone already. I have not criticized anyone's punctuation, spelling, or posting habits here and I will not do so. If you read my thread on posting etiquette and decided it was a direct attack against you, then you have a problem all by yourself. I created that thread in a direct effort to help people who come here.
This forum has established mores in posting and they don't match those in the playground. The playground is playful and this forum is more seriously inclined. This is not going to change just because you prefer it otherwise. It was an established community before you got here. Communities don't change to suit newcomers. Newcomers either decide to fit or they don't. If they fit, the community changes in some ways but not in others.
I posted that thread so people like Dream could come here and find something that might help them understand how things are done here. Why? So their posts will be taken seriously. It helps to know the traffic laws before you drive.
I like Dream. If I didn't like her, I wouldn't try to help her by offering a reason as to why this thread was attacked or by posting those damned guidelines. If I didn't like her, I'd want her to never be taken seriously so I can laugh at her. I do not do that. She's a sincere person. She seems to be pretty smart and she's honestly nice to people.
Dream has no BDSM experience, but she has something important. Sincerity. A desire to learn like the rest of us here. This forum was created so people could learn about BDSM and be a part of a community that's oriented to learning about BDSM. It was not created to play out whip me games online. That's what the SRP is for.
I think Dream has a great deal to offer us because she's actually interested in learning about herself and her new sexuality. There is a lot that I can and hope to learn from her.
Not everyone is going to agree with you. Not everyone is going to like you. There will be people who find your arrogance nothing short of insulting. You don't like me, do you? Same principle in action. You either deal with it or you don't. Your choice.
Yes, you've been persecuted on this thread. You've also been provoking to the entire forum. You've made no effort to try to become part of the forum or try to understand the forum. You've simply expected this forum to bend to your whims, wants, and desires with little or no thought given to the others here.
There is an uncomplicated and adult route to dealing with what happened on this thread. It beggars the imagination as to why you didn't take it.
If you have something to say about me, say it to my face. I respect people who are honest, have some integrity, and have the balls to criticize me to my face. I don't respect snideness and backhanded references. It makes you very weak and I don't respect that kind of cowardliness. I may not like it and I will behave badly, but I will respect it.
Lady Talia
Really Experienced
- Joined
- May 31, 2002
- Posts
- 138
For The Life Of Me!
For the life of me I strive to see
Why all the controversy
Why can't we all get along?
Why must some one's opinion be wrong?
Who are you to dare to tell?
Another that his view is not well
And if you have a spiteful tongue
Cool your head and please calm down
My master is the man I trust
The only man who I love
God sent him for me
The Grand master who reigns from above
And I hope you do not take me to task
When I post this poem at last
Real life or on the Internet...
This is my view
Never judge another
Every one my sister or my brother
If Artful's Dream
Love for artful is deep and true
No one can argue with that
Not even me and not any of you!
But as my dear Master taught me
Life is but a classroom
I sat and I viewed this thread
Digested everything I read
The only thing that I see here
The only thing that is clear
Is that this thread started innocently
Turned into a war zone subsequently
And that the purpose thus explained
Never came in to the game
If were trying to learn about BDSM
I would have learnt nothing but that people cannot understand each other's views
And to some person that would be discouraging news
I leave this poem with you now
And this is how I close...
Thank you Dream for the thread
And to all the others here on Lit
I give to you a rose...
For the life of me I strive to see
Why all the controversy
Why can't we all get along?
Why must some one's opinion be wrong?
Who are you to dare to tell?
Another that his view is not well
And if you have a spiteful tongue
Cool your head and please calm down
My master is the man I trust
The only man who I love
God sent him for me
The Grand master who reigns from above
And I hope you do not take me to task
When I post this poem at last
Real life or on the Internet...
This is my view
Never judge another
Every one my sister or my brother
If Artful's Dream
Love for artful is deep and true
No one can argue with that
Not even me and not any of you!
But as my dear Master taught me
Life is but a classroom
I sat and I viewed this thread
Digested everything I read
The only thing that I see here
The only thing that is clear
Is that this thread started innocently
Turned into a war zone subsequently
And that the purpose thus explained
Never came in to the game
If were trying to learn about BDSM
I would have learnt nothing but that people cannot understand each other's views
And to some person that would be discouraging news
I leave this poem with you now
And this is how I close...
Thank you Dream for the thread
And to all the others here on Lit
I give to you a rose...
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
KillerMuffin
Your post speaks for itself, and I am not going to respond to ALL your erroneous conclusions and accusations. As regards the following quote made by you: "There is an uncomplicated and adult route to dealing with what happened on this thread. It beggars the imagination as to why you didn't take it."
I don't know what you are referring to,...and I apologise for my ignorance, but I bet more than myself alone are ignorant as to what you are referring too. I have tried to end this matter, ...but someone always seems to want to get their last DIG in, and I feel I have to defend myself again. Why? Because people keep sneaking in personal attacks,(sometimes veiled)accusing me of wrong doing.
As for changing the title of this thread. You know as well as I, that a Moderator has only to request from Laurel, and she can EASILY change the tread title. Now I ask you, YOU, KillerMuffin,... what is the purpose of your last post here? Was it made to end the matter,...or was it made to justify your own agenda? Was it intended to put me in my *PLACE by insinuating I had no *BALLS*, and you do? I made my apologies for my mistakes, openly and to those that deserved it.
I never referenced you in any way as having done anything deserving my criticism,(except as you jumped in with your post) about dream presuming to teach YOU,(Yep I mean KillerMuffin), anything about English. My prior posts referring to YOU were given with respect. (go back and re-read) If I had wanted to address you on any matter specifically, I would have named you. I really DO stand fully behind my thoughts , words, and deeds.
I am making this post for one reason,...and that is to defend my character,... you have NOW jumped on the same band wagon, and directed snide remarks and challenges to me,...I don't understand why,...I have only defended myself against false accusations. Now,(yep,...I am talking about YOU KillerMuffin) you have joined forces with those who have falsely accused me of wrong doing. I am not a coward to say what I believe is the truth.
You,...on your last post seem to protect dream, and at the same time attack me,...why? I don't know,...but it IS apparent to all who read this thread you have your own agenda, ...and it is not one to bring harmony out of chaos.
RisiaSkye, and others have tried to soften things up so that an understanding can be had by all participants. As you so very well pointed out,there is a need for punctuation, paragraphing
and presenting the words we write, where all can more easily get the true meaning OF those words. I failed miserably in that,...and I duly apologised for my mistakes.
That post WAS made in the heat of the moment, and, as I was being unreasonably attacked,...hurried to post in my own defense. It WAS a mistake,...and I own up to it. MissTaken misunderstood one of dream's post, as she thought ONE of the 2 was referring to her, and dream apologised to her. Her,(meaning dream) and myself, have no aversion to apologising when we make mistakes.
We have not sought out to confront and accuse any one on any other threads. I will also state,...I have NOT provoked the entire forum,...sure,... posting in my defense, I may have provoked some to respond with views that are contrary to what I have written,...but as you so well put it,..."You either deal with it,or you don't. Your choice!" On THIS thread, as with all my posts,... if I am WRONG, I will apologise,...if NOT,...I will defend myself and my words.
At no time have I tried to make a 3 ring circus with any of my posting in the BDSM forum, as regards to your accusation that I am "PLAYING". In quoting YOU, (yes I mean KillerMuffin) "It was not created to play out whip me games online." I challenge you or anyone else, to find where I have posted anywhere on this thread,...or for that matter,... the entire BDSM forum, anything that could be REASONABLY taken as an effort to promote such.
THIS thread was going smoothly and there were important issues being addressed here, in a responsible, and adult manner until Cymbidia (Yep,...I meant Cymbidia)came in, with her postings.
Then began the snide remarks, lines were drawn, sides were taken,...and as with your last post,...people kept jumping in and making matters worse,...prolonging a possible healing by all parties involved. As I stated before,...why not let the thread die?
It now only serves as a place where accusations are made, and which I shall respond to in defense of false accusations. Up to you folks, but as far as I am concerned,...it's a dead issue!
KillerMuffin said:
Your post speaks for itself, and I am not going to respond to ALL your erroneous conclusions and accusations. As regards the following quote made by you: "There is an uncomplicated and adult route to dealing with what happened on this thread. It beggars the imagination as to why you didn't take it."
I don't know what you are referring to,...and I apologise for my ignorance, but I bet more than myself alone are ignorant as to what you are referring too. I have tried to end this matter, ...but someone always seems to want to get their last DIG in, and I feel I have to defend myself again. Why? Because people keep sneaking in personal attacks,(sometimes veiled)accusing me of wrong doing.
As for changing the title of this thread. You know as well as I, that a Moderator has only to request from Laurel, and she can EASILY change the tread title. Now I ask you, YOU, KillerMuffin,... what is the purpose of your last post here? Was it made to end the matter,...or was it made to justify your own agenda? Was it intended to put me in my *PLACE by insinuating I had no *BALLS*, and you do? I made my apologies for my mistakes, openly and to those that deserved it.
I never referenced you in any way as having done anything deserving my criticism,(except as you jumped in with your post) about dream presuming to teach YOU,(Yep I mean KillerMuffin), anything about English. My prior posts referring to YOU were given with respect. (go back and re-read) If I had wanted to address you on any matter specifically, I would have named you. I really DO stand fully behind my thoughts , words, and deeds.
I am making this post for one reason,...and that is to defend my character,... you have NOW jumped on the same band wagon, and directed snide remarks and challenges to me,...I don't understand why,...I have only defended myself against false accusations. Now,(yep,...I am talking about YOU KillerMuffin) you have joined forces with those who have falsely accused me of wrong doing. I am not a coward to say what I believe is the truth.
You,...on your last post seem to protect dream, and at the same time attack me,...why? I don't know,...but it IS apparent to all who read this thread you have your own agenda, ...and it is not one to bring harmony out of chaos.
RisiaSkye, and others have tried to soften things up so that an understanding can be had by all participants. As you so very well pointed out,there is a need for punctuation, paragraphing
and presenting the words we write, where all can more easily get the true meaning OF those words. I failed miserably in that,...and I duly apologised for my mistakes.
That post WAS made in the heat of the moment, and, as I was being unreasonably attacked,...hurried to post in my own defense. It WAS a mistake,...and I own up to it. MissTaken misunderstood one of dream's post, as she thought ONE of the 2 was referring to her, and dream apologised to her. Her,(meaning dream) and myself, have no aversion to apologising when we make mistakes.
We have not sought out to confront and accuse any one on any other threads. I will also state,...I have NOT provoked the entire forum,...sure,... posting in my defense, I may have provoked some to respond with views that are contrary to what I have written,...but as you so well put it,..."You either deal with it,or you don't. Your choice!" On THIS thread, as with all my posts,... if I am WRONG, I will apologise,...if NOT,...I will defend myself and my words.
At no time have I tried to make a 3 ring circus with any of my posting in the BDSM forum, as regards to your accusation that I am "PLAYING". In quoting YOU, (yes I mean KillerMuffin) "It was not created to play out whip me games online." I challenge you or anyone else, to find where I have posted anywhere on this thread,...or for that matter,... the entire BDSM forum, anything that could be REASONABLY taken as an effort to promote such.
THIS thread was going smoothly and there were important issues being addressed here, in a responsible, and adult manner until Cymbidia (Yep,...I meant Cymbidia)came in, with her postings.
Then began the snide remarks, lines were drawn, sides were taken,...and as with your last post,...people kept jumping in and making matters worse,...prolonging a possible healing by all parties involved. As I stated before,...why not let the thread die?
It now only serves as a place where accusations are made, and which I shall respond to in defense of false accusations. Up to you folks, but as far as I am concerned,...it's a dead issue!
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2000
- Posts
- 25,603
Actually, artful, I thought that post you made to me in the first place was meant to be a direct insult.
And yes, Dream's post was highly presumptious. She used bad English to tell me that my interpretation was correct, but I was still wrong. I may not know much about interpersonal communications, but what I know about the English language backs up every bit of my arrogance in regard to it.
And if you'll read my post again, you'll notice I actually said very little about you. If you have a problem with a moderator, you go to the webmistress with it. Problem solved without histrionics. Even you must admit that your prior post was a disguised insult directly to James Blandings and myself. You expect me to not react to that? Particularly when you do exactly what I do?
The reason this thread won't die and this little ridiculousness will continue is because you refuse to find some kind of common ground. Artful is 100% right. Artful has not done anything remotely construable as wrong. This is as far from the truth as saying that I am 100% right and have done nothing wrong.
You are just as culpable as I am. You're arrogant and condescending. So am I. I don't like you. You don't like me. Insulting me only keeps this moving. I am not insulting you in this post, I am stating exactly what I think and I'm doing it bluntly. This is as plainly as I know how to speak.
What's the point of this post and the one prior? An effort to find a common ground. That's all.
No, I will not let this thread just die because doing so is counterproductive. I don't believe in Shiny Happy Poster Land. When there are problems they must be worked out and worked through, not ignored until they explode all over again.
If you will do me the courtesy of reading what I have written to you in this post and the previous one with an objective mind about yourself, I think you'll find it a lot less hostile.
Additionally, I apologize for that snide remark about being an adult. I should not have done that.
And yes, Dream's post was highly presumptious. She used bad English to tell me that my interpretation was correct, but I was still wrong. I may not know much about interpersonal communications, but what I know about the English language backs up every bit of my arrogance in regard to it.
And if you'll read my post again, you'll notice I actually said very little about you. If you have a problem with a moderator, you go to the webmistress with it. Problem solved without histrionics. Even you must admit that your prior post was a disguised insult directly to James Blandings and myself. You expect me to not react to that? Particularly when you do exactly what I do?
The reason this thread won't die and this little ridiculousness will continue is because you refuse to find some kind of common ground. Artful is 100% right. Artful has not done anything remotely construable as wrong. This is as far from the truth as saying that I am 100% right and have done nothing wrong.
You are just as culpable as I am. You're arrogant and condescending. So am I. I don't like you. You don't like me. Insulting me only keeps this moving. I am not insulting you in this post, I am stating exactly what I think and I'm doing it bluntly. This is as plainly as I know how to speak.
What's the point of this post and the one prior? An effort to find a common ground. That's all.
No, I will not let this thread just die because doing so is counterproductive. I don't believe in Shiny Happy Poster Land. When there are problems they must be worked out and worked through, not ignored until they explode all over again.
If you will do me the courtesy of reading what I have written to you in this post and the previous one with an objective mind about yourself, I think you'll find it a lot less hostile.
Additionally, I apologize for that snide remark about being an adult. I should not have done that.
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
KillerMuffin
...and you expect,...or wish me to respond to your posts,(and others)HOW? I have answered each accusation in an adult manner,...I strike back when I am attacked. I have not made false accusations.
You tend to gloss over the fact,...I didn't start this,...and I am not trying to prolong it. I have apologised for what I felt were my mistakes,...and I did make some,...but why the animosity? Hell yes I am defensive. Read your own posts.
How would you have me react differently? Not that I am PERFECT,...but in my responses I have posted what I believe,...and I will continue to do so. All YOU, (Yep I mean KillerMuffin), but also others,(and if the shoe fits,...wear it), need to do is stop the accusations,...and I will stop defending myself. If not,...this may well turn out to be the longest running thread in all of Lit!
...and you expect,...or wish me to respond to your posts,(and others)HOW? I have answered each accusation in an adult manner,...I strike back when I am attacked. I have not made false accusations.
You tend to gloss over the fact,...I didn't start this,...and I am not trying to prolong it. I have apologised for what I felt were my mistakes,...and I did make some,...but why the animosity? Hell yes I am defensive. Read your own posts.
How would you have me react differently? Not that I am PERFECT,...but in my responses I have posted what I believe,...and I will continue to do so. All YOU, (Yep I mean KillerMuffin), but also others,(and if the shoe fits,...wear it), need to do is stop the accusations,...and I will stop defending myself. If not,...this may well turn out to be the longest running thread in all of Lit!
RisiaSkye
Artistic
- Joined
- May 1, 2000
- Posts
- 4,387
Clarification
Artful--thank you for the clarification and apology. I appreciate your candor and consider the issue, insofar as it concerns you & I, fully resolved. I apologize for jumping to conclusions; it is, however, difficult to avoid at times.
I sincerely hope that KM & Artful can bury the hatchet (somewhere other than in each other's backs) and we can all return to trying to have a constructive conversation--not just here, but in the forum in general.
Best to all,
RS
Despite what I've been accused of (largely behind the scenes, btw) regarding this whole fracas, I have never *once* accused anyone of behaving badly. All I've done is sympathized with both sides and tried to find common, neutral ground from which everyone might get to speak.KillerMuffin said:
Artful--thank you for the clarification and apology. I appreciate your candor and consider the issue, insofar as it concerns you & I, fully resolved. I apologize for jumping to conclusions; it is, however, difficult to avoid at times.
I sincerely hope that KM & Artful can bury the hatchet (somewhere other than in each other's backs) and we can all return to trying to have a constructive conversation--not just here, but in the forum in general.
Best to all,
RS
Sweetwood
Really Experienced
- Joined
- May 11, 2002
- Posts
- 263
I don't care whose permission I need
I cannot believe this thread.
Artful..... my God man you're by my calculation at least 61 years old.... grow up. You ain't got much time left
How can anyone with any intelligence whatsoever attach that kind of importance to L/D internet fuck yourself at the screen type of engagements and even call them relationships?
And I am a man who met his wife on the net and is now very happily married indeed.
The conceited connivance revealed in the posts in this thread are beyond belief. Do you even keep looking at yourself in the mirror in the morning and find a reflection or is it empty? Or do you see the suoer luxury body of your avatar and just make believe?
I am so glad for cym! I raise her flag and Scream with her: GET REAL Y'ALL.
How is that for an attack?
Sweetwood (professional submissive)
I cannot believe this thread.
Artful..... my God man you're by my calculation at least 61 years old.... grow up. You ain't got much time left
How can anyone with any intelligence whatsoever attach that kind of importance to L/D internet fuck yourself at the screen type of engagements and even call them relationships?
And I am a man who met his wife on the net and is now very happily married indeed.
The conceited connivance revealed in the posts in this thread are beyond belief. Do you even keep looking at yourself in the mirror in the morning and find a reflection or is it empty? Or do you see the suoer luxury body of your avatar and just make believe?
I am so glad for cym! I raise her flag and Scream with her: GET REAL Y'ALL.
How is that for an attack?
Sweetwood (professional submissive)
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
Re: I don't care whose permission I need
LMFAO,
I am so sorry sweetone,(Ooops, all who read this will know beyond the shadow of a doubt) I REALLY did mean Sweetwood...but I just couldn't hold that belly laugh in. We 58 year old men do have our faults,...one of mine is to laugh, when I see people like you, expose who you really are,...and not just to me,...but the public at large when they read your post on this thread. Cymbidia will certainly be proud to have YOU on her side.
Sweetwood said:I cannot believe this thread.
Artful..... my God man you're by my calculation at least 61 years old.... grow up. You ain't got much time left
How can anyone with any intelligence whatsoever attach that kind of importance to L/D internet fuck yourself at the screen type of engagements and even call them relationships?
And I am a man who met his wife on the net and is now very happily married indeed.
The conceited connivance revealed in the posts in this thread are beyond belief. Do you even keep looking at yourself in the mirror in the morning and find a reflection or is it empty? Or do you see the suoer luxury body of your avatar and just make believe?
I am so glad for cym! I raise her flag and Scream with her: GET REAL Y'ALL.
How is that for an attack?
Sweetwood (professional submissive)
LMFAO,
I am so sorry sweetone,(Ooops, all who read this will know beyond the shadow of a doubt) I REALLY did mean Sweetwood...but I just couldn't hold that belly laugh in. We 58 year old men do have our faults,...one of mine is to laugh, when I see people like you, expose who you really are,...and not just to me,...but the public at large when they read your post on this thread. Cymbidia will certainly be proud to have YOU on her side.
