For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

[ll74]

https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/the-nazis-gun-ban-facilitated-kristallnact

https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/

https://www.independent.org/guncontrol/

Many of the written accounts are exactly that: written. And for the same reasons conservative voices get silenced or banned on social media, Google and YouTube do a great job blocking the posting, or at least the finding of posts, if the post is presenting connections between communism and Nazis, and liberals and Democrats. But I actually read the news papers (paper versions their only version because of limited resources) that these older and largely conservative survivors write articles for and send in letters to the editor. And their testimony has been gut wrenching and their warnings dire.

For your sake I posted a couple articles dealing with some of the history, as well as a link to a site for a book full of eye witness accounts if you have the balls to pick up the book and read it. Bet you don't and won't.

Except the Nazis relaxed gun laws when they seized power.

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/1327/

If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power

 

[Rightguide]

If you vote for a candidate, then you will be complicit in their agenda. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant.

There is no ballot where you can vote for a candidate with a disclaimer

So then be ashamed for what you've done to the country under Joe Biden.

 

[ll74]

So then be ashamed for what you've done to the country under Joe Biden.

Your
B
D
S
Doesn't have relevance to how I vote. Chip plants being built, bridges and roads being repaired..

 

[goldenpalomino]

I am pretty exhausted with those who can't seem to separate support for a person's policies, or at least many of them, from blanket support for a man. Agreement on some key points does not, nor has it ever, equated to a cult following. For example, I agree with much of the moral teachings of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and could have a very good conversation about the state of society today. But I could never join with them on any other level because there are key components to their teachings that I consider to be dangerous and that make them horrible cults. In many ways, cults of personality are worse.

So, for those of you who are unable to distinguish enough to have a nuanced conversation, I am going to post here four MAJOR areas where I disagree with Trump's stated platform. I understand that on three of these issues it's because I don't think he goes far enough or gives too much, but that alone makes the point that I do not consider, nor have I ever considered, him a conservative in any sense of the word. He is a populist and a pragmatist. But I do prefer him over the alternative currently out there.

Having said all that, here are my four points of major DISAGREEMENT with Trump.

1: His stance on tariffs. He did this before and I had a major beef then too. Tariffs do not help any economy, not does the intended target of a tariff, especially if they, fairly or unfairly, control much of that market, ever actually take the biggest hit. This should be basic economics 101. When prices go up, the consumer, not the company, is going to pay them. So using tariffs to punish China and other bad actors on the national stage is just a bad idea. It has never worked. If he does this, it will easily at least partially undercut the economic benefits of a Trump presidency.

2: His willingness to leave abortion laws up to the states. Abortion is a human rights issue. A baby is IN a mother's womb, but it is not PART of her body. We know this to be scientifically true. The baby has separate DNA, can be a separate gender, has different needs, and is not legitimately a "my body, my choice" issue. That is a human life. That life, no matter how it is conceived, is precious. There are other options if the mother is in danger, or it was conceived in a horrific way, but to murder a baby because of crimes not its own is horrific. Abortion, taking the life of an innocent, is ALWAYS murder. We would not leave the right to murder a baby 1 hour out of the womb, even born prematurely, up to the states. The location of that baby's body has no bearing on whether or not it should be considered a crime of the most heinous nature. Instead of taking the easy route of leaving it up to the states, there needs to be support for treating murder as murder on a national level. Period.

3. Funding for Israel in their defense, short of actual crimes and corruption, which they have not been part of at least up to this point, should never have even the consideration of qualifiers beyond the consideration of what we can afford. I know there are a LOT of you that will flip out on this statement, but I stand by it. That is a much longer discussion I don't feel the need to get into here. But his willingness to add caveats to funding and aid makes me very nervous.

4. Heavy pushes on the so-called vax for Covid-19. These things are a nightmare and are making things worse. Again, because of the purpose of this thread, I am not going to engage in the debate over the position. There are great threads and posts out there that have that debate. You can make up your own mind on that subject. I am very nervous that a push compromise on this, though, can and will lead to taking away freedom of choice on this issue. As with any vax issue, I believe failure to allow individual and family liberty on this is in fact a fundamental constitutional violation of individual rights and opens the door to far more egregious violations. Give a government an inch, they will take... everything!

There are, of course, other minor issues, but these are huge deals for me. But given the choice between these and dealing with a radical leftist socialist agenda being pushed forward, I have no issues voting for the man. I just want there to be actual conservatives around him to keep him in check.

Think he wouldn't ban porn? Think again. He'd keep it for himself and those people and countries who give him million dollar gifts, but ban it for everyone else.

The only thing I will give this man is that sometimes he is funny, like a clown is funny.

Given 500 million dollars when he was young (something like 5 billion in today's dollars) he went bankrupt already six times in life. Who but an extreme fuck up would do something like that?!

 

[goldenpalomino]

This applies to point #2 on your list, but Trump and his goons are going so much farther than leaving abortion to the states. They are taking away birth control for everyone and women's rights across the board.

 

[JaySecrets]

Except the Nazis relaxed gun laws when they seized power.

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/1327/

Except that's exactly not what eye witnesses who fled the country said. So you are suggesting we believe "scholars" from liberal universities over eye witnesses who were there? Yeah. I'll get right on that.

 

[JaySecrets]

This applies to point #2 on your list, but Trump and his goons are going so much farther than leaving abortion to the states. They are taking away birth control for everyone and women's rights across the board.

As a vet myself I point out that he will gladly have the rights of his children and grand children in the womb taken in the ultimate way via their being murdered at their most vulnerable. Again, a sick, warped, depraved mind reflective of a very dark heart.

 

[JaySecrets]

This applies to point #2 on your list, but Trump and his goons are going so much farther than leaving abortion to the states. They are taking away birth control for everyone and women's rights across the board.

And abortion isn't birth control. It is murder of the innocent.

 

[goldenpalomino]

As a vet myself I point out that he will gladly have the rights of his children and grand children in the womb taken in the ultimate way via their being murdered at their most vulnerable. Again, a sick, warped, depraved mind reflective of a very dark heart

It is a choice, and not his to make.

 

[Lazaran]

The corrupt orange traitor is NOT a populist.

The corrupt orange traitor exploited a quasi-"populist" movement (now known as MAGA) that was / is , at its core, ACTUALLY a racist, bigoted, misogynistic, fascist cabal comprised of incredibly privileged individuals and “The lowest white man” - and the corrupt orange traitor did it for politically expedient / convenient and self enriching purposes.

The corrupt orange traitor comes across as an "authentic populist" to the MAGAts, because that orange POS is also a racist, bigoted, misogynistic fascist who has zero problem advancing a racist, bigoted, misogynistic, fascist agenda.

^
The perfect figurehead for a hate driven "populist" movement (MAGA).



JFC

SAD!!!

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Except that's exactly not what eye witnesses who fled the country said. So you are suggesting we believe "scholars" from liberal universities over eye witnesses who were there? Yeah. I'll get right on that.

Again, which “eyewitnesses” so far you haven’t been able to name any.

 

[ll74]

Except that's exactly not what eye witnesses who fled the country said. So you are suggesting we believe "scholars" from liberal universities over eye witnesses who were there? Yeah. I'll get right on that.

The laws were relaxed The actual Nazi party removed several gun controls from the law.

They took away everything from the Jews because they hated Jews.

 

[JaySecrets]

Racist

bigoted

misogynistic

fascist

cabal comprised of incredibly privileged individuals

The lowest white man

Very good. You posted all the bumper sticker buzz words. Now let's test their truth. List a very specific example of each of those, whether of Trump or his voters or both, depending on the context you used them in with your post, making sure your example is fully, probably factual in context and fits the historical context

 

[Lazaran]

Very good. You posted all the bumper sticker buzz words. Now let's test their truth. List a very specific example of each of those, whether of Trump or his voters or both, depending on the context you used them in with your post, making sure your example is fully, probably factual in context and fits the historical context

No.

Sealioning Christo-fascists get my accurate assessment and nothing more.

 

[JaySecrets]

It is a choice, and not his to make.

Rape is a choice too. And selling or making Meth. And matricide. And theft. All of it, including the murder that is abortion involves a choice. But, like abortion, it either scars or ends an innocent party. Only, in the case of abortion, that innocent party is a baby at its most vulnerable and trusting, in the place he or she should feel safest. Blindness to that is a devotion to one of the greatest evils: blind support of and involvement in the murder of babies.

 

[JaySecrets]

No.

Sealioning Christo-fascists get my accurate assessment and nothing more.

I give specifics. You give general opinions I could have gotten off the bumper sticker of your gas guzzling, carbon emitting car (hypocrite), at least if you are in the income bracket most of us struggle to stay above these days. Buzzwords vs. facts. And you wonder why people are leaving the Democrat party.

 

[ll74]

Rape is a choice too. And selling or making Meth. And matricide. And theft. All of it, including the murder that is abortion involves a choice. But, like abortion, it either scars or ends an innocent party. Only, in the case of abortion, that innocent party is a baby at its most vulnerable and trusting, in the place he or she should feel safest. Blindness to that is a devotion to one of the greatest evils: blind support of and involvement in the murder of babies.

Abortion doesn't involve babies

 

[JaySecrets]

Again, which “eyewitnesses” so far you haven’t been able to name any.

I gave you places you can start to do your own research. As I did. But you want easy clips and sound bites. Because you are lazy. Start at places I pointed you to. Do the research. Because some of the best and most accurate information and interviews and reports never show up on the Internet.

 

[JaySecrets]

Abortion doesn't involve babies

Keep telling yourself that, murderer.

 

[ll74]

Keep telling yourself that, murderer.

I've never murdered anyone.

 

[goldenpalomino]

Rape is a choice too. And selling or making Meth. And matricide. And theft. All of it, including the murder that is abortion involves a choice. But, like abortion, it either scars or ends an innocent party. Only, in the case of abortion, that innocent party is a baby at its most vulnerable and trusting, in the place he or she should feel safest. Blindness to that is a devotion to one of the greatest evils: blind support of and involvement in the murder of babies.

We end lives in order to eat, in fighting wars, to protect ourselves from harm, . . .

No one wants to abort a life, but in some cases it is needed.

Abortions happen whether they are outlawed or not.

When abortions are outlawed, more women die.

By the way, how many abortions do you think Trump has paid for?

Trick question. Trump doesn't pay his bills.

 

[JaySecrets]

The laws were relaxed The actual Nazi party removed several gun controls from the law.

They took away everything from the Jews because they hated Jews.

How do you think they knew which Jews had guns? Tightened registration and gun control laws. Oh, and the Poles had their gun rights taken and stripped from them to the point that they were virtually unarmed when the military arm of the Nazis finally rolled in. You are simply wrong, and I posted two articles here spelling out why and how. Stop quoting the propaganda of liberal, Marxist universities and leftist propaganda machines like politifact.

 

[ll74]

How do you think they knew which Jews had guns? Tightened registration and gun control laws. Oh, and the Poles had their gun rights taken and stripped from them to the point that they were virtually unarmed when the military arm of the Nazis finally rolled in. You are simply wrong, and I posted two articles here spelling out why and how. Stop quoting the propaganda of liberal, Marxist universities and leftist propaganda machines like politifact.

Because they ransacked their houses. They literally rounded them up and threw them into concentration camps.

Maybe you missed that part.

They didn't tighten gun laws, they had informants who outed their jew neighbors.

 

[JaySecrets]

I've never murdered anyone.

If you paid for an abortion you were complicit. If you encouraged a woman to have an abortion, you were complicit. If you supported candidates who helped to see government funding and laws in place to fund the places that commit abortions, you are complicit. And complicit in murder, which is exactly what abortion is on any moral spectrum, is as guilty as if you tortured that baby to death as it died in agony in its mother's womb.

 

[ll74]

If you paid for an abortion you were complicit. If you encouraged a woman to have an abortion, you were complicit. If you supported candidates who helped to see government funding and laws in place to fund the places that commit abortions, you are complicit. And complicit in murder, which is exactly what abortion is on any moral spectrum, is as guilty as if you tortured that baby to death as it died in agony in its mother's womb.

Abortions are a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy.

Whether you consider it murder continues to mean nothing to me.

The only way you arrive at your conclusions is by using your bible and redfining words.