For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

Well a baby isn't going on life support at 25 weeks, it's 28 right now. Best we can do, maybe in a few more years they'll get it down around the 26th week.

But I'll humour your hypothetical. Yes if you kill a baby on life support, that is murder.

How? Explain please....*chuckles*
All you did was relocate a baby who can't survive on its own. If it's in the womb it's not a baby. If it's the same size and age outside the womb it is. That's crazy rationalization. And it defies logic. If it's a baby in one location, it's a baby in another. So killing it in one location is as much murder as in the other, no matter what a law says.
 
No, you have drunk the wine of lust and sacrifice babies at its altar, hoping to the universe your conscience that tells and warns you you will be held accountable to God one day is wrong.
Man, you really are blinded by hate of any one who doesn't share your worldview. The God I believe in wouldn't approve.
 
You'd think for all he thinks he knows that he's spent a lot of time pregnant.
 
You get caught up on the list and miss the point of it. The point is that everything about your version of "history" is revisionist, including this.
You're the one who is ignoring history and deciding on your own. You demonstrate that at every turn. The law was changed to remove gun control by the Nazis and yet you refuse to accept that fact. Instead, you have decided on "eyewitnesses" because they support your narrative

You continue to ignore basic facts, definitions and historical events and yet tell everyone else it's them doing it. It's comical
 
All you did was relocate a baby who can't survive on its own. If it's in the womb it's not a baby. If it's the same size and age outside the womb it is. That's crazy rationalization. And it defies logic. If it's a baby in one location, it's a baby in another. So killing it in one location is as much murder as in the other, no matter what a law says.
The medical term is "fetus". But that's beside the point. What you are conveniently ignoring is that elective abortions at 25 weeks - or even 20 weeks, say - are unheard of. Almost all abortions are in the first 12 weeks, and the percentage would be even higher if not for roadblocks like mandatory waiting periods, forcing patients to travel long distances, etc. By the time you're anywhere near viability, no one is going to want to abort unless they learn the fetus is unviable or has some catastrophic defect.
 
Keep trying to soothe a guilty conscience with that lie.
And I reiterate - I have no issue whatsoever with abortion. If a friend needed one and I could help, I would help without question.

You're the one who finds issue with that...I don't nor am I required to no matter what you or your book says
 
Man, you really are blinded by hate of any one who doesn't share your worldview. The God I believe in wouldn't approve.
That's because you worship a god made in your imagination. The God of Truth loves his creation, all of it, and is protective over the innocent. And love by its very nature means hate for that which violates the character of relationship and love. Love protects and defends from those who would harm the loved one. That's why Jesus died to pay all the cost... for you too. But it also means a choice. And a choice, with a truly Holy Judge, also means consequences.
 
You'd think for all he thinks he knows that he's spent a lot of time pregnant.
No. I spend time valuing the sanctity of life. And there are plenty of women who HAVE spent plenty of time pregnant who will say just what I am saying. Do they hate women too? Do they hate themselves? Because most liberal women I have met are perpetually pissed off and feeling like victims. Most conservative women I know are stunningly happy, loving, and the most compassionate people I know.
 
No. I spend time valuing the sanctity of life. And there are plenty of women who HAVE spent plenty of time pregnant who will say just what I am saying. Do they hate women too? Do they hate themselves? Because most liberal women I have met are perpetually pissed off and feeling like victims. Most conservative women I know are stunningly happy, loving, and the most compassionate people I know.

No you don't. You spend time trying to stop abortion.

The majority of women support pro-choice.

I didn't say anything about hating women.

I said specifically that you are an ignorant man spouting off about something you don't know anything about.
 
I gave you places you can start to do your own research. As I did. But you want easy clips and sound bites. Because you are lazy. Start at places I pointed you to. Do the research. Because some of the best and most accurate information and interviews and reports never show up on the Internet.
The issue is that YOU haven’t done the research that you claim to have done. YOU can’t name an eyewitness who can show that if Jewish people had guns they could have fought off the Nazis. YOU said you could, but all you’ve done is run away from providing the information YOU said YOU had.
 
Because most liberal women I have met are perpetually pissed off and feeling like victims. Most conservative women I know are stunningly happy, loving, and the most compassionate people I know.
I don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that your own perspective plays a role in that? I mean, we've all seen how you interact with people who disagree with you; of course that's going to make them angry. Likewise, most conservative women I know are not at all as you described, and I'm well aware that's probably because they find my politics disgusting just like you do.
 
The issue is that YOU haven’t done the research that you claim to have done. YOU can’t name an eyewitness who can show that if Jewish people had guns they could have fought off the Nazis. YOU said you could, but all you’ve done is run away from providing the information YOU said YOU had.
Can you quote the names and pull the paper articles, presenting them online, of all the most learned or informed people you have read, most of them in small pubs and wholely disconnected from the Internet age? Good thing too. Today they would have been cancelled.

You have no idea what I mean because the Internet and the media tell you how and what to think. You just have the illusion of thinking for yourself.

I have done the work of reading and studying. You can't be bothered to do the same.
 
I don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that your own perspective plays a role in that? I mean, we've all seen how you interact with people who disagree with you; of course that's going to make them angry. Likewise, most conservative women I know are not at all as you described, and I'm well aware that's probably because they find my politics disgusting just like you do.
Actually, that is an observation of former libs who happen to be women. They were not happy because liberals tell them to feel like victims. Conservatives say you are who and what you make of life, that you are no one's victim. The former is slavery, the latter freedom.
 
Can you quote the names and pull the paper articles, presenting them online, of all the most learned or informed people you have read, most of them in small pubs and wholely disconnected from the Internet age? Good thing too. Today they would have been cancelled.

You have no idea what I mean because the Internet and the media tell you how and what to think. You just have the illusion of thinking for yourself.

I have done the work of reading and studying. You can't be bothered to do the same.
I have. I have read the links you provided and NONE of them provided what you said they did. YOU didn’t read them. YOU’VE demonstrated that without a doubt YOU have no clue what YOU’RE talking about. YOU just believe what people say without doing any research to see for yourself.

Again, all you’ve done is run away from a very simple question which you said you had the answer to.
 
Actually, that is an observation of former libs who happen to be women. They were not happy because liberals tell them to feel like victims. Conservatives say you are who and what you make of life, that you are no one's victim. The former is slavery, the latter freedom.
1. Confirmation bias is a thing, and a very common thing among extremists like yourself at that. (And yes, I've seen it on the left too. But that's beside the point.)
2. You're talking about a very specific, and also very small, group of people, who were probably just looking for an easy answer. And I'm sorry, but that's exactly what your everything-in-black-and-white worldview is: an easy answer.
3. It's entirely possible that the women you're thinking of are not really former liberals. You have shown us time and again that you will believe absolutely anything that supports your point of view, even if there's zero evidence to support it - or even, for that matter, if there's conclusive proof that it's false. This could be just another example of that.
 
It's remarkable, right?

Best self-inflicted wounds on the PB this year. 🙂
It is.

Last night I was at a Memorial Day gathering on the local reservation. If you want to ditch MAGA consciousness, go hang out with the people who have been dealing with control freaks for the past 5 centuries. The humble Native vets reminded me that Deplorables have been around in one form or another for a very long time.

None of these vets exhibited the know-it-all attitude being displayed by the guy who started this thread. If religion makes a person arrogant, it's not a valid form of spirituality.
 
If religion makes a person arrogant, it's not a valid form of spirituality.
Since he has alluded to a past in which he didn't adhere to the standards he's always calling for ("I wish I'd waited for marriage"), it could be he's a relatively new convert. They tend to be the loudest and most strident. That would also explain how he ended up on an erotica website despite his prudishness.
 
Bernie literally honeymooned in Communist Russia and was (and is) a huge fan, I have listened to your side, including it's leadership, praising Castro, and your side has regularly, without any historical context to reference (I have made it clear the very specific socialist and violent fascist behaviors your side has done that mirrors the Nazis), called Trump and G.W. Bush Nazis and said they were literally Hitler. I am aware of the Hitler fallacy in debate, but when your opponent, or those the align with actually mirror Nazi behavior, the comparison is warranted.

By the way, one of the other things the Nazis did was to implement gun control, using the same arguments as your side uses today, then went through and collected all the guns they could find based on gun registration, and disarmed the people who would object to their actions. I've read several first hand accounts from survivors, and the parallels are blatant and terrifying.
My side? The Libertarians? The von Misisians? The Hayekian few? Nobody, but nobody listens to us!

You need to upgrade your back and white reception to technicolor...
 
Since he has alluded to a past in which he didn't adhere to the standards he's always calling for ("I wish I'd waited for marriage"), it could be he's a relatively new convert. They tend to be the loudest and most strident. That would also explain how he ended up on an erotica website despite his prudishness.
Not a new convert. I'm 45, was raised in a home that took it farther than I believe they should have, and I questioned and challenged everything that I hold dogmatically. The allusion here is that legit spirituality holds uncertainty as a virtue. That is foolishness. Certainty and a holding to absolutes is kinda why God gave the Bible to begin with. It would be a pretty hateful God to say, "I have a standard, but I'll leave you to figure it out, but if you don't, you will deal with the consequences. Good luck." And a Holy God with no absolute standard is like saying a just judge who lets criminals go without consequence. The two thoughts are incongruent. By your standard, the judge who has an absolute legal standard he holds others and hopefully himself to is arrogant. Sorry, that's not the standard the Creator works with. He wasn't made in our image, we were made in His.

I do have a past, and I have old associates on here, an older hand on here under a different name (no, not the name that someone on here keeps accusing me of). I happen to have a lot of respect for the poets who post on here, many of whom ore brilliant. I am aware of my own hypocrisies. They don't change the truth of what I'm saying, and my life is generally pretty consistent with what I post. My hypocrisies are not what you may assume. I don't come on here for the erotica side. I come here for the Lit side, because I do have people I genuinely like on here. And there is a lot I wrestle through. (On Lit, for the record, I post on here, the poetry thread, and the audio thread, and I mainly focus on the poetry side, because a good poet's group and community can be hard to find, and on this side because it tells me the point of unhinged liberal bumpersticker thought is at.)

As for this idea that I see the world in black and white, you clearly know nothing about me. There are many areas where, even if I disagree with the conclusion, I value the story of how a person got there. Just because a person is wrong on their conclusion, doesn't mean they are wrong about the issue they raise. And even if they are partially wrong about the issue, it doesn't mean there isn't good reason those perceptions are in place. In one of my missional projects, I work with the former Milwaukee and Wisconsin Poet Laureate and her husband, both BLM liberals who are as black liberal as I am a Midwest conservative. But the conversations we have challenge each other, we all see the bs on our perspective sides, and call it out. She sees the issues with the BLM organization, takes serious issue with the leadership and the riots, and finds herself on the same side of some social conclusions as I do. I take issue with a Trump cult of personality, can distinguish between the man and some policies I agree with, and hate blind following and bumpersticker answers on the left and the right. Each of us take hits from both sides.

But that does not mean there are not absolutes. That does not mean that the liberals, who control the seats of "education" in this country, have redefined terms to suit their agenda, have reframed history, information, and conversations by removing and replacing context, and have brainwashed generations into a pop culture that is so arrogant to think they, not One higher than them, are the standard for truth, that does not mean this crowd gets a pass. There is right. There is wrong. God wrote it on our conscience. God gave it in His Book. God literally came down to live as one of us to BE that Truth, then to die and raise again do save us from the consequences of our rebellion against that truth. And all legitimate Truth is a natural outflow from the principles of the fundamental Truths He laid out. Those are the basic truths, by the way, that historically were referred to as "the laws of nature and nature's God". And those are the basic start points that, like it or not, are at the very heart of our founding documents.

Had you said half of what you have said on here, you would have been considered traitors to this nation by the founders. And had they heard you use their words to try and justify legal murder of babies in the womb or taking God out of education, they would have a LOT of rebuttals against your twisting of their words. We know this because we know the values that they held, the values that shaped their words. You are just flat wrong on so many of these issues by any historical, objective standard.

Do I have things I struggle with? Yes. Are there times I fail? Yes. But the beauty of Truth is that it doesn't depend on the messenger to be accurate or right. It just IS. And I think that's pretty loving of God to not leave us in the dark to keep guessing.
 
1. Confirmation bias is a thing, and a very common thing among extremists like yourself at that. (And yes, I've seen it on the left too. But that's beside the point.)
Actual facts are a thing too, and they are pretty stubborn buggers. They don't move because of your feelings. Or your leftist agendas. Or your desire to relegate people to victim classes (a mark of classic Marxism, by the way, as defined by Marx).
2. You're talking about a very specific, and also very small, group of people, who were probably just looking for an easy answer. And I'm sorry, but that's exactly what your everything-in-black-and-white worldview is: an easy answer.
No, I am talking about a growing group of people who wrestled through things and came out the other end. Because, "It's __________ fault," and, "the ____________ is oppressing me," THOSE are the easy answers. Taking personal responsibility for one's own life is what is hard. It is also one of the biggest reasons I have heard from former liberals as to why they left your side. They were tired of the lazy, angry, easy answers. They wanted the freedom of individual thought instead of the slavery of victimhood and groupthink.
3. It's entirely possible that the women you're thinking of are not really former liberals. You have shown us time and again that you will believe absolutely anything that supports your point of view, even if there's zero evidence to support it - or even, for that matter, if there's conclusive proof that it's false. This could be just another example of that.
The women I am thinking of, I posted some of their own videos on here of them telling their stories. And men. Maybe listen to what their story is before saying they weren't really libs. I have constantly and consistently shown evidence for my positions, you just don't like the sources or what they say. So you say, "Not good enough. Give something else." It's an old and very transparent tactic. It's why you are the foils I use to make the point to people who read these from time to time, people I have heard from, who won't post on here because they don't want to deal with your ignorance, but who thank me for being willing to take the hits.
 
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