H1N1 Vaccine

[Cathleen]

The concern with H1N1 is there's a high complication and fatality rate in young, often quite healthy people. That, and it can do a lot of damage and kill very quickly. It's not like the seasonal flu that's usually most problematic for the old, sick and very young, and simply a pain for everyone else who gets it.

This is what has me troubled, the young are dying -- perfectly healthy before getting the flu. I talked with my doctor last week and asked why. She told me that it's the young who haven't built any resistance to H1N1 like many people who were exposed in the early 1970s. It is just so wrong for the young to die -- sad and wrong.

There have been cases of bad reactions, gratefully the percentage is low, but to those who've suffered the percentage is too high. There will never be a guarantee on anything medically based, we all have different bodies.

I'm sure I'll get it next appointment as I have that title "underlying health issues."

 

[Mac98]

The H1N1 HAS been tested and studied. First of all, there have been literally millions of shots given already with no concerns. Second of all, it is the exact same flu shot given every single year for decades, just with a different dead flu strain in it. This is the very same procedure used year after year after year to make flu shots. They get a dead version of whatever flu strains are circulating and make a flu shot out of it. Every year they may have new flu strains which are put in the seasonal flu shot. The only reason that this shot is a different shot than the regular seasonal flu shot is because it was detected too late to put it in the regular seasonal flu shot. Next year, if swine flu is still around, it will be part of the regular seasonal flu shot and not a seperate shot. And, the goverment doesn't have anything to do with the shot other than the fact that they purchased it from the companies that make it so our citizens get can vaccinated.

That's the thing, though... it HASN'T been tested ENOUGH. Tested, yes, but not nearly as thoroughly as a vaccine of that nature should be. There ARE risks. Mosts researchers of the vaccine aren't getting vaccinated themselves. More so, what we DO know about the vaccine is that it can stint neurological development. That's not a risk I'm willing to take. And the government is making more money off this "scare" than anyone else (in exception to pharmaceutical companies, among other companies). Besides... the gvm always needs his people in a state of fear... am I wrong?

Were the people you know actually lab tested for H1N1, or were they simply feared/presumed to have it? The testing takes about a week, and it's not done as a matter of course, so many people think they have it (or know people who do) when the reality is they just have the regular flu.

Most were diagnosed without testing by a doctor. 2 of my friends were in bed for 3 days, not even able to move due to muscle aches... if it's not H1N1, then they got one of the worst seasonal flus I've ever seen.

The concern with H1N1 is there's a high complication and fatality rate in young, often quite healthy people. That, and it can do a lot of damage and kill very quickly. It's not like the seasonal flu that's usually most problematic for the old, sick and very young, and simply a pain for everyone else who gets it.

That's not what I heard. I heard the people most at risk are people with asthma, heart problems, or who's immune systems are already quite fragile. I have none of this (although I have had asthma in the past).

 

[SweetErika]

That's the thing, though... it HASN'T been tested ENOUGH. Tested, yes, but not nearly as thoroughly as a vaccine of that nature should be. There ARE risks. Mosts researchers of the vaccine aren't getting vaccinated themselves. More so, what we DO know about the vaccine is that it can stint neurological development. That's not a risk I'm willing to take. And the government is making more money off this "scare" than anyone else (in exception to pharmaceutical companies, among other companies). Besides... the gvm always needs his people in a state of fear... am I wrong?

Do you have credible sources to back up your claims (that most of the H1N1 vaccine researchers will refuse vaccination, this vaccine stunts neuro development and the government is making a ton of money off of H1N1), or are you simply theorizing or repeating what you've heard some other people say?

Most were diagnosed without testing by a doctor. 2 of my friends were in bed for 3 days, not even able to move due to muscle aches... if it's not H1N1, then they got one of the worst seasonal flus I've ever seen.

There is no firm H1N1 diagnosis without lab testing. Some of the symptoms are good clues that medical professionals can use to treat patients (e.g. kids tend to get a high fever that goes away then comes back to stay), but those are not definitive by any means.

And, yes, it's shaping up to be a very bad year for seasonal flu as well.

That's not what I heard. I heard the people most at risk are people with asthma, heart problems, or who's immune systems are already quite fragile. I have none of this (although I have had asthma in the past).

People with weakened immune systems and other issues that tax their bodies are always at greater risk of getting infections. That's true for the seasonal flu and H1N1 as well.

However, it's well known that H1N1 is striking and killing a greater proportion of young and healthy people. For instance, of the 18 flu-related pediatric deaths reported to the CDC last week, 15 were confirmed cases of H1N1. (Source) And here's an even better explanation from the CDC's FAQ:

How does 2009 H1N1 flu compare to seasonal flu in terms of its severity and infection rates?

With seasonal flu, we know that seasons vary in terms of timing, duration and severity. Seasonal influenza can cause mild to severe illness, and at times can lead to death. Each year, in the United States, on average 36,000 people die from flu-related complications and more than 200,000 people are hospitalized from flu-related causes. Of those hospitalized, 20,000 are children younger than 5 years old. Over 90% of deaths and about 60 percent of hospitalization occur in people older than 65.

When the 2009 H1N1 outbreak was first detected in mid-April 2009, CDC began working with states to collect, compile and analyze information regarding the 2009 H1N1 flu outbreak, including the numbers of confirmed and probable cases and the ages of these people. The information analyzed by CDC supports the conclusion that 2009 H1N1 flu has caused greater disease burden in people younger than 25 years of age than older people. At this time, there are relatively fewer cases and deaths reported in people 65 years and older, which is unusual when compared with seasonal flu. However, pregnancy and other previously recognized high risk medical conditions from seasonal influenza appear to be associated with increased risk of complications from this 2009 H1N1. These underlying conditions include asthma, diabetes, suppressed immune systems, heart disease, kidney disease, neurocognitive and neuromuscular disorders and pregnancy.

Of course if you're a huge fan of government conspiracy theories, you probably won't believe the CDC. In that case, you may want to look to the health agencies of other countries (e.g. Canada's health ministry just came out with some new info, and Canadians are often far more into common sense than Americans) and/or find other data-rich, credible sources of info.

 

[TypicalDeviant]

Do you have credible sources to back up your claims (that most of the H1N1 vaccine researchers will refuse vaccination, this vaccine stunts neuro development and the government is making a ton of money off of H1N1), or are you simply theorizing or repeating what you've heard some other people say?

There is no firm H1N1 diagnosis without lab testing. Some of the symptoms are good clues that medical professionals can use to treat patients (e.g. kids tend to get a high fever that goes away then comes back to stay), but those are not definitive by any means.

And, yes, it's shaping up to be a very bad year for seasonal flu as well.



People with weakened immune systems and other issues that tax their bodies are always at greater risk of getting infections. That's true for the seasonal flu and H1N1 as well.

However, it's well known that H1N1 is striking and killing a greater proportion of young and healthy people. For instance, of the 18 flu-related pediatric deaths reported to the CDC last week, 15 were confirmed cases of H1N1. (Source) And here's an even better explanation from the CDC's FAQ:


Of course if you're a huge fan of government conspiracy theories, you probably won't believe the CDC. In that case, you may want to look to the health agencies of other countries (e.g. Canada's health ministry just came out with some new info, and Canadians are often far more into common sense than Americans) and/or find other data-rich, credible sources of info.

Oh, SweetErika, you're my favorite.

 

[cromsgirl]

Oh, SweetErika, you're my favorite.

That goes double for me.

 

[coastal-boy]

she has so much more patience than me. I think she would be a tremedous friend.

 

[Mac98]

Do you have credible sources to back up your claims (that most of the H1N1 vaccine researchers will refuse vaccination, this vaccine stunts neuro development and the government is making a ton of money off of H1N1), or are you simply theorizing or repeating what you've heard some other people say?

Give me a moment and I'll try to go back and find the source of my information. Although a valid question, I'm not that gullible and dumb. I don't go by hearsay or questionable sources. When I find something awry, I make my own research and process what seems credible and reliable and what doesn't... or what sources seem to contradict themselves, which happens more often than one would think. The vaccine was said to hold some questionnable doses of Thermisol which is proven to stunt neuro development (which could lead to autism, paralysis... anything that has to do with bad brain development, really). Like I said, I'll go back and try to find those sources and post them here, it would be a good idea.


There is no firm H1N1 diagnosis without lab testing. Some of the symptoms are good clues that medical professionals can use to treat patients (e.g. kids tend to get a high fever that goes away then comes back to stay), but those are not definitive by any means.

No, I understand. There's a very good chance they didn't really contract the virus, but the symptoms were very similar. Throat ache, high fever, terrible cough, muscle sores, headaches, nausea and diarrhea. Like a normal cold, only accentuated, or more intense...


However, it's well known that H1N1 is striking and killing a greater proportion of young and healthy people. For instance, of the 18 flu-related pediatric deaths reported to the CDC last week, 15 were confirmed cases of H1N1. (Source) And here's an even better explanation from the CDC's FAQ:

Perhaps where you're from, but here in Qc, we haven't had many deaths, and most of them were from adults ages 50 and up (from what I recall hearing on the news). When you say young, though, do you mean 20 year olds or do you mean 6 year olds?



Of course if you're a huge fan of government conspiracy theories, you probably won't believe the CDC. In that case, you may want to look to the health agencies of other countries (e.g. Canada's health ministry just came out with some new info, and Canadians are often far more into common sense than Americans) and/or find other data-rich, credible sources of info.

No one wants to be a fan of conspiracy theories... but it's always a healthy choice to question the motives of rich men who hold power over you. From everything I've gathered about this flu and this vaccine, logic points to mistrust of the poorly organised flu shots. And for those who say the government has made 0$ out of this whole mess: Don Rumsfeldt is a share holder of the company that developed the tamfilu meds... he sold them to his good friend George Bush Jr. in 2006 (before swine flu was even at the back of anyone's minds) for a low sum of 1 billion $ (1,000,000,000$)... I believe Rumsfeldt pocketed over 67M$ in that deal (though I'm still somewhat unclear as to where the rest of that money went).

 

[Mac98]

sorry for the way that last message was delivered... if I knew how to write in bold, it would've been a little more clear... my apologies

 

[coastal-boy]

No one wants to be a fan of conspiracy theories... but it's always a healthy choice to question the motives of rich men who hold power over you. From everything I've gathered about this flu and this vaccine, logic points to mistrust of the poorly organised flu shots. And for those who say the government has made 0$ out of this whole mess: Don Rumsfeldt is a share holder of the company that developed the tamfilu meds... he sold them to his good friend George Bush Jr. in 2006 (before swine flu was even at the back of anyone's minds) for a low sum of 1 billion $ (1,000,000,000$)... I believe Rumsfeldt pocketed over 67M$ in that deal (though I'm still somewhat unclear as to where the rest of that money went).

in otherwords...you have no evidence.

 

[fire_breeze]

No one wants to be a fan of conspiracy theories... but it's always a healthy choice to question the motives of rich men who hold power over you. From everything I've gathered about this flu and this vaccine, logic points to mistrust of the poorly organised flu shots. And for those who say the government has made 0$ out of this whole mess: Don Rumsfeldt is a share holder of the company that developed the tamfilu meds... he sold them to his good friend George Bush Jr. in 2006 (before swine flu was even at the back of anyone's minds) for a low sum of 1 billion $ (1,000,000,000$)... I believe Rumsfeldt pocketed over 67M$ in that deal (though I'm still somewhat unclear as to where the rest of that money went).

I'd like to point out that in Canada, government does not profit from health care - it's universal. Vaccines, although not mandatory, are being offered in staggered intervals for all those who chose to take it, free of charge.

Just sayin'.

 

[Mac98]

That's not what I'm saying, though. The "government" doesn't technically make money out of the vaccines (at least not the canadian one), but pharmaceutical companies are making a nefty profit, as is "purell" and all other hand sanitizers. News outlets are making money. Then ask yourself who the news outlets and most pharmaceutical companies belong to... there are many members of the american government who hold shares in these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXSuL228nZY

Listen, I've been working long hours, and when I'm not working, I'm at school. So I appologize for the lack of time, but the evidence IS there, if you just look hard enough. The video above is a brief, condensed summary of some of the important, credible people I'm talking about (as sources) and there are more. The video itself may be a load of propoghanda, it may also be entirely true... who knows, but the point is that there are some important, educated people against the virus.

I'm off all day saturday (in exception to going to the "2012" opening ) so I'll have the chance to post up the real sources.

 

[TypicalDeviant]

Without passing judgment on the vaccines themselves, I'm unable to take anti-vaccine "support" seriously.

The pamphlets read like something out of reefer madness, without context or reason. HOLY FUCKING SHIT, DUDE, THIS SHIT HAS FUCKING MERCURY IN IT. MERCURY IS BAD. DUDE DON'T FUCK WITH THAT SHIT. BECAUSE, LIKE. MERCURY. Seriously. Dude. Mercury.

Then you dig a bit deeper and it has a compound of some molecule which contains one or two atoms of mercury, which will probably never go radical inside the body. You get more mercury from eating fish than you would from a vaccine. And don't even try to say that vaccines are worse, even if there's less mercury, because it goes straight into your blood. How do you think people who eat too much sushi get mercury poison?

Then you read a bit more on the pamphlet and you pass over a few more dangerous sounding compounds, present in such limited quantities as to be neglibile. If a vaccine is 10 CCs, thats 10 mL, and a 10 CC vaccine is huge, there's a ton of stuff in there, most of which is probably a stable medium for the "good stuff".

So we've gotten over mercury, we've passed the horrors of dangerous chemicals in immaterial quantities, and what else do you find on the list?

SODIUM MOTHER FUCKING CHLORIDE. Well stop the motherfucking presses. There's table salt in my vaccine. I ate, inadvertantly, more table salt today than there is in 100 of those vaccines.

So why did they include NaCl? To scare me. Because if I failed basic chemisty, all I know is that chloride sounds like chlorine and that's bad, right?

Jesus, what's next, WARNING: may contain dihydrgen monoxide. By the way, did you know that more people die of accidental dihydrogen monoxide inhalation than cyanide inhalation each year? Ban that shit.

http://www.dhmo.org/

 

[Mac98]

Hmm... as far as I know, I've never said anything of what you've mentioned there. All I'm saying is that there are compounds in the vaccine that are harmful to the body... just like pretty much all vaccines (this includes the hepatitus shots we get as kids... or at least that I got). And the fact still remains that the mercury inside is harmful to the body, though I'm not too sure as to how much there is in the vaccines and if it really makes a difference. But there are a variety of compounds in the vaccine that should be more thoroughly investigated... just like the 1976 vaccines that were somewhat devistating (at least according to 60 Minutes lol).

I don't mind... go get vaccinated. It's your choice and I in no way will try to stop you. I'm just giving out my opinion about it and wanted to see how many people were actually going to take chances on it. Like every vaccine, there is always a risk to take. No vaccine is absolutely 100% garuanteed to work without any kind of side effect, so it comes down to you and how scared you are of getting the illness in questioin. As for me, I'm going to take my chances and if worse comes to worst, I'll get sick and spend an absolutely miserable 5 days sick in bed... then I won't have to even think about it.

And if worst comes to even worst, it'll attack my immune system, turn into pneumonia and I'll pass away without having any other option than to let go, thank the people who were there and anxiously await what life (if any) comes after death... but I am NOT getting vaccinated for the many reasons I've stated above. And no matter how much I argue, or how much you counter-argue, in the end, it's all pretty much just speculation. I choose to beleive there's something awry about it, you choose to beleive there's absolutley nothing to fear. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[TypicalDeviant]

Correct, you did not say any of the things mentioned, I was referring to the anti-vaccination information pamphlets/websites.

We can definitely agree to disagree on whether to get vaccinations, but when the information pamphlets read like sensationalist propaganda, it does a disservice to the dialogue as a whole.

 

[DrHappy]

Most H1N1 Vaccines have no mercury. The single dose syringes have no mercury, and most of it was produced as single dose. The nasal attenuated live virus vaccines also have no mercury.

I have a baby at home and there is no vaccine for babies. There have been lots of cases near where I live. I got the live vaccine, largely because I want to reduce the risk to my child.

 

[Mr.G]

People SHOULD

do their own research but some FACTS are irrefutable.

There are several common strains of flu that hot every year. We have to GUESS which ones and the PHarmas make up the VAX for the strains that they guessed will be the prevalent strains a year from then.

Those typical flus KILL between 60,000 and 80,000 people EVERY YEAR in Can and the USA.

H1N1 has, for reason nobody understands, almost completely replaced those other strains that make up the "regular" seasonal flus.

There were predictions, warnings etc that suggested H1N1 would mutate over the summer (flu season in the S. Hemisphere) here and when it came back it would be DEADLY. New Zealand was warned that H1N1q would likely KILL 18,000 people there.

SO FAR H1N1 has NOT mutated at all. H1N1 KILLED a grand total of 17 in N.Z. Not 17,000. 17.

In the USA and Canuckistan where the governments were panicked into ordering several BILLION DOLLARS worth of the VAX it has killed around 1,400. Not 60,000. Not 80,000. 1,400.

Which leads one to wonder if the government NEEEDS to make their expenditure seem prudent rather than idiotic. See, IF the flu HAD MUTATED the VAX that was being made 8 MONTHS ago would not have had any effect of the new strain. Ditto if the H1N1 had RECOMBINED with another strain of flu - like H5N1. Thwe VX would have been as useful as a screen door on a sub!!!

So you gota ask yourself WHY the panic? Is this flu VERY easy to catch? Yes. VERY EASY. Is it deadly? Clearly it is NOT. Not unless you have a pre-existing condition or your immune system is compromised. THOSE are the only people H1N1 is actually killing right now NOBODY else. WHY the PANIC.

Ok , here's the other factor. Pharmas usually take 11 months to have a VAX ready for wide distribution. There is only so much egg grown virus to go around ... UNLESS you mix it up with some toxic shit and, in essence, water it down with these toxins.

These TOXINS BTW are very special substances. The immune system does NOT "see" them. It does react to secondary irritation but it does not recognize these poisons that the Pharmas use to increase their per-dose profit margins.

These toxins are called ADJUVANTS and consist of things like ethyl MERCURY (Thimerosal), squalene (a type of oil), Aluminum hydroxide (possibly THE most toxic because it is able to breach the brain barrier and that has side effects on the human body like Autism in kids, LUPUS, Gillian Barre' Syndrome, Parkinsons, MS) and formaldehyde.

The Medical Officer of Health for Ontario was asked on TV what ADJUVANTS are. Her answer: Adjuvants are NATURALLY OCCURRING SUBSTANCES THAT ENHANCE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE VACCINE."" No mention of WHAT they are or how they work or WHY they are included in a vaccine.
PLUTONIUM is a "naturally occurring substance" too. How come we don't make CHAIRS out of it??

Now SOME people who can THINK still kinda figure that if a VAX containing all those poisons was preventing a virus or flu that had a case fatality rate -CFR - of 7% (like the spanish flu of 1918 - another H1N1 or SARS with an 11% CFR or BIRD FLU - H5N1 with a 63% mortality rate) then you might consider the RISK worthwhile, right? This flu is killing LESS than 2 % of what a normal flu season kills. It is a nasty flu but it is NOT a killer.

Sorry. ANY time your government propagates PANIC MODE and even flirts with the idea of MANDATORY vaccinations for EVERYBODY then they better have a damn good reason for it. This time they do NOT and the risk of side effects from all those poisons that they INJECT into you and your children all in the name of increasing their profit per dose leaves a very very nasty smell in the air. WHY are they doing this?? WHY????

I just rad Page 2 of this thread and need to make a comment or three.

Just before the VAX became available in Canada , HEALTH CANADA (close to the FDA in function ) announced that THE best way to avoid the FLU AND any possible side effects from the VAX was to up your (adult) dosage of Vitamin D and especially D3. Do your own research. Adults should be taking 6 to 8,000 iu and ten times that is perfectly acceptable if you're sick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE

Some idiot above was doing the "It's MERCURY, DUDE" and saying a few ATOMS are included in the process. Not so. According to VAX EXPERTS even a children's dosage of H1N1 VAX may contain up to 100mcg of a STABALIZER called Thimerosal (Ethyl MERCURY, dude) and the VAX contains 25,000 time smore mercury than what would be ALLOWED if this was a FOOD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m04dNmph69s

Even the adjuvant REDUCED VAX for pregnant women has 5,000 times the amount that would be allowed if it was food. Mercury is used in the PROCESSING so whether it is ADDED as an actual adjuvant later is moot. It is still there and anybody who simply says it is mercury free either hasn't done their homework OR they are ignoring some of the other adjuvants that ARE being used.

This mostly audio clip shows that the people answering questions AT Health Canada don't have a clue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4O8beEBxdQ

Here's an article on the very high risk factors involved in the VAX for PREGNANT WOMEN
http://miscarriage.about.com/b/2009/09/29/some-pregnant-women-fearful-of-h1n1-vaccine.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4O8beEBxdQ

This clip explains WHY mercury and aluminum are a baaaaad thang in your brain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lig6ovqkNtQ&feature=related


Sure. There are some whacked out conspiracy theories out there but anybody with half a brain can usually pick the BS from the actual dangers - something our governments clearly are NOT doing.

 

[SweetErika]

Most H1N1 Vaccines have no mercury. The single dose syringes have no mercury, and most of it was produced as single dose. The nasal attenuated live virus vaccines also have no mercury.

I have a baby at home and there is no vaccine for babies. There have been lots of cases near where I live. I got the live vaccine, largely because I want to reduce the risk to my child.

Yep, I just got the thimerosal/mercury-free H1N1 shot last night. My husband will get it as soon as he finishes the immunosuppressant medication he's on in a few more days, though I don't think it matters whether he gets the thimerosal-free formula or not.

So far, I've felt a little nauseous on and off since about an hour after getting the shot and I have some muscle aches and fatigue, but those side effects are no big deal compared to actually getting the flu.

 

[fgarvb1]

This dude is my doctor and no, I have not takemn the shot yet.


http://www.ktre.com/global/story.asp?s=11502772


Lufkin doctor has hundreds of free H1N1 shots

 

[coastal-boy]

you have to love it when YouTube becomes a peer-reviewed source of information. For those with doubts...do your research....but in case you don't know...just because you find something on the web, doesn't make it true. Ask your doctor instead of taking the word of someone online.

 

[Luna_Bella]

I got my H1N1 shot last week... I always get my flu shots...... why be sick if i don't have to be?

 

[Phaedre]

I will be having my vaccination on Saturday. I already have the annual flu vaccination as I am immune suppressed & have asthma.

 

[TypicalDeviant]

you have to love it when YouTube becomes a peer-reviewed source of information. For those with doubts...do your research....but in case you don't know...just because you find something on the web, doesn't make it true. Ask your doctor instead of taking the word of someone online.

Listen coastal-boy, I'm going to need you to take your logic, reason, and diligence elsewhere. Your kind ain't welcome 'round these parts.


It's nice to know that not everyone equates YouTube to the Gospel...

 

[Mr.G]

Crap

I'd just like to point out that YOUTUBE does NOT make the clips and videos. They merely collect them in all their categories so those who wish to be informed CAN do their own research. "Blaming" YouTube for false, misleading or just plain STUPID videos is like blaming a newspaper for bad news. Nobody is "peer reviewing anything here ... just making it known that there is clearly another side to the inexplicable rush to jab this VAX into any and everybody.

We are inundated with media hype and governments declaring states of emergency. Anybody would think there are bodies piling up in the streets. *BONG*BONG*BONG* BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!! BONG *BONG*BONG * BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!

In fact WHO stated yesterday that H1N1 has killed - globally - so far - just over 6,000. Seasonal flus kill 400,000 annually. The chance of THIS flu killing you seem as remote as winning a SuperBall. Compare that to all the data showing the effects of the adjuvants on the immune and central nervous system and SOMEBODY ain't tellin the truth here.

 

[Luna_Bella]

I heard somewhere that there was far more people dying from H1N1 than what the autorities are telling us because they do not count deaths due to
H1n1 complications,such as pneumonia, as H1N1 deaths but as pneumonia related deaths.

Now I am not saying I believe this( I know people who had it and all are well now, none of them died!), but its what I heard...
Personally I am frankly sick of hearing about it, I think people are in a panic for no reason.....

There is a company in my area that make all employees fill out a questionnaire every morning, then take their temperature(in the ear) if the employee has a temperature higher then 38 degrees celsius, he is sent back home. Isn't that a little far fetched!

 

[subwannabe]

They just came out with an update on this a few days ago. They had been counting roughly about 1000 deaths in the US but revised it up to about 4000 due to factoring in the complications as you mentioned.