Has pron become de facto sex education?

[00Syd]

Looking back, I think the worst part of it was that there were no alternatives offered. It was one man + one woman =make baby when time is right = happy. That was far more damaging to me than any porn I ever watched or read. Also the whole "You're a girl so you can't like it too much until you're in a committed relationship" bullshit.

Yes, this.

 

[00Syd]

So "is imitating porn rampant" is the new "is porn bad."

Yeah, pretty much. Although the "is porn bad" question is still pretty prevalent, and just as annoying.

I wonder how long it'll take before I get fed up and drop out of the debate entirely.

 

[Netzach]

The woman from the TED lecture is everything I dislike about reading other sex worker blogs, delving into other sex worker communities, and the whole culture of what are more or less my colleagues.

Marketing is perpetual. She has this coy thing going like she's the only cougar on earth, down to the dominatrix looking pants.

Her shitty experience, and that of other women - needs a source of blame. What's the easy peasy one? Images. Don't blame the patriarchy, don't blame the shitty way that young men are treated sexually, which may not be as shitty as it is for girls but just might be part of the problem (and it IS shitty - early 20's guys have the stigma of teenagerdom hanging off them in a way - they're assumed to be dumb and easy and basically dick on feet and highly dehumanized - not taken seriously) - I mean it's not like women are talking to them either and it's both because they're insecure and in other cases because they're feeling superior in sophistication.

She herself seems more interested in talking *about* her partners and acting like she's doing them a favor. It sells well - cougar as therapist.

Why don't I jump in, people ask? (and they do ask) I can do a lot of things, but I more or less hate myself when I'm supposed to position myself as an authority on this stuff somehow - exotica for the completely sexually sheltered. I dislike people who looooove being that. We all have to make a buck, I'm happier making mine calling mid level managers "shit for brains" over the phone.

 

[ownedsubgal]

This conversation is fine, have it, go at it, talk it up. It's a valid question and a valid discussion, and one that is completely worth having. Unfortunately for me, as a sex-positive advocate who has been thinking about and talking about this stuff pretty much nonstop for the last couple of years, as well as being one of those young people that everyone is so worried about , this is pretty much the most over-hashed conversation I've ever had the pleasure of being involved with.

And whether or not I agree with the comments being made here, It's exhausting just reading them.

Sorry I'm being such a downer, but that's how I feel about it. I feel like I'm over it.

you're over it, got it. understood. but personally i have never, before today, come across a serious discussion about how for many pornography effects their actual sexual expression and knowledge. it's something i've observed and taken note of, but never something i've heard or seen discussed. call me sheltered.

so yeah, i guess i'm not quite over it.

 

[00Syd]

you're over it, got it. understood. but personally i have never, before today, come across a serious discussion about how for many pornography effects their actual sexual expression and knowledge. it's something i've observed and taken note of, but never something i've heard or seen discussed. call me sheltered.

so yeah, i guess i'm not quite over it.

Great. I can suggest some reading material if you want to look further into the topic than a thread of a message board.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Great. I can suggest some reading material if you want to look further into the topic than a thread of a message board.

as someone who doesn't even wholly believe in the "pms" thing, it shocks me to type this...but you really do come across as moody and hormonally imbalanced. your responses are just so wildly out of proportion to the tenor of the discussion that i'm not buying it's the real "you." at least, i hope not.

 

[Xelebes]

Original question: no.

Sex education happens when one has sex. Apart from that, we can be reminded of pregnancy, condoms, names of all the body parts and the traditions regarding sex from our parents, our teachers and our fellow friends.

 

[JinxedPixy]

I don’t have time to watch the TED thing right now but I will later. Just wanted to toss my two cents into the mix.

I have a good friend, R, who is a psychologist who told me that she noticed a big difference in the kinds of problems clients came to her with as the Internet became more and more prevalent in people’s lives. The biggest change, she said, by far, was the number of young, married couples who came to her because one or both (sorry guys but it was usually the man) had been exposed to a great deal of online porn growing up and this comprised almost all of their sexual education. It had also formed their ideas of what sex should look like and how partners should respond. They then found themselves in a relationship with a real human being who did not live up to what they imagined sex should be, (not even close), based on what they had viewed.

R said it is a surprisingly large problem and is affecting lots of young couples in a very negative way.

Been lurking for a little bit here. I agree with this idea fully. It seems like men now-a-days seem to think that they have to be 9-14 inches to please a girl, that every girl has to scream like a porn star to be enjoying it and that sex perhaps only looks one way. It seems like theyre confused by a busload of cheerleaders not breaking down at their doorstep.

In the words of Bill Engvall
"I wanted to teach my son realistic ideas about the birds and the bees. I didnt want him to sit outside his house like I did waiting for the bus of half naked school girls to break down outside my house."

 

[Stella_Omega]

as someone who doesn't even wholly believe in the "pms" thing, it shocks me to type this...but you really do come across as moody and hormonally imbalanced. your responses are just so wildly out of proportion to the tenor of the discussion that i'm not buying it's the real "you." at least, i hope not.

You may not believe in PMS but-- it believes in you, baby.

 

[satindesire]

It's really just tiring.

You know, sweetie, no one's forcing you to read or post to this thread. No offense intended at all, it's just logical to assume that if you don't like reading something, and you're tired of talking about it, then just avoid the thread completely!

 

[Seurat]

You may not believe in PMS but-- it believes in you, baby.

and it can be a very scary thing, indeed, to all those that conceive of it's reality. Worse than the leprechaun in those movies.

I learned to track it years ago. Secretly. That calendar has kept our relationship solid by letting me know when it is time to be out of the house as much as possible.

 

[where]

That's the judgment, based in part on personal experience, of Cindy Gallop. She did a short presentation at TED 2009 in which she outlined her thesis: that the wide availability of hard-core porn on the Internet coupled with various constraints on young people receiving thorough education in how sex works has led young people to model their sex lives after what they see in porn. This influence of Internet porn is pernicious and to counteract it, she launched a website to promulgate an opposing approach to sex: MakeLoveNotPorn.

Here's her talk at the TED conference (4 minutes, 29 seconds).

What do you think? Is she right? Have you experienced this influence in your own life or in your partners?

ETA (I should add this: the misspelling in the thread title was unintentional but I think that it is quite appropriate for the discussion, don't you think?

yeah. I was teaching sex and relationship ed to 15 year olds about four years ago
and they were basically saying that they didn't need it because they found out all they needed to know on you porn. I found it profoundly depressing and worrying. One of my colleagues was doing some research on young women's attitudes to sex and she was constantly finding that young girls (and we are talking under 16s here) would have anal sex so they didn't need to worry about contraception.

 

[Xelebes]

One of my colleagues was doing some research on young women's attitudes to sex and she was constantly finding that young girls (and we are talking under 16s here) would have anal sex so they didn't need to worry about contraception.

That is, however, an old practice amongst European cultures as much as I've heard it.

 

[where]

THIS is what we should be talking about. Not about how porn is harming our children, but about how sex ed should be conducted, in order to give children the healthy and positive views of sex that they need. Yes, healthy and positive views on sex can help combat the negativity of porn, but I just don't see porn as being such a BFD to begin with.

the issue is that sex positive and safe sex ed is often in tension with most porn.

That is, however, an old practice amongst European cultures as much as I've heard it.

the anal as contraception thing has yes, but the point is, if they are getting sex ed from porn, then they aren't getting safe sex ed. The stats btw were showing a large increase on earlier research in terms of frequency and a decrease in terms of age onset of anal sex.

I couldn't give a fuck if my kids are experimenting in threesomes, foursomes and bi-gangbangs as long as they use a fucking condom! and not the same one for each hole either!

 

[ownedsubgal]

You may not believe in PMS but-- it believes in you, baby.

....

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Well, given that my sex education was woefully woeful, I think there's a chance I've learned a good proportion of things I know from pron.

I mean, the explanation I got for my period was basically 'it happens to all girls, it's natural, it's normal, it'll happen once a month, here's how you use pads and tampons, and while it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's not news you broadcast either' I didn't get a sex talk from the folks and we had a couple of weeks of health class in high school.

The rest was gleaned from friends, porn, and trial and error.


I know that schools are doing a much better job these days, and I haven't *heard* much talk here (as opposed to the US particularly) about actually teaching abstinence, especially abstinence only, so I'm hoping that our kids are getting a broader education on the subject.

This kind of talk though, makes me wonder how I'll tackle the topic when I'm a parent.

 

[ownedsubgal]

our sex ed. started in 4th grade, where we learned about our lovely menstrual cycles and that once you got your period, you were able to have a baby. no mention was made of just how this baby would come about, lol. 5th and 6th grade focused on "our changing bodies." i was told the boys learned about using deodorant.

sex itself was not mentioned until maybe 7th grade, and it was mentioned very clinically as solely a vehicle of disease. there were lots of pictures of people with grotesque pussy sores and such from various mysterious STDs. in 8th grade they showed a sort of "movie," which was supposed to portray a true to life scenario about sex. it appeared to have been made in the mid- to late 70s, judging from the bell bottoms and blurry coloring. a teen guy and girl were sitting on a couch kissing, and the guy said something like, "come on let's do it." the girl backed away and said "no. if you love me you'll wait," or something insane like that. the message? just say no to sex!

birth control or condoms were never mentioned, nor anything else one would have to face if they decided to risk their lives and actually have sex.

 

[rida]

No sex ed whatsoever in my days at school. Oh, right, we had a priest say something in the first year of high-school: "women are the incarnation of the tempting evil. don't succumb to them".

Not sure how things are nowadays, but I'll be surprised if they are any better.

Those days girls (and a few boys, although they would never admit it) would get their education via teen-magazines or the summer specials on "how to have good sex" on women magazines. I still remember a "letter to the editor" where a girl was worrying that maybe she was pregnant but did not know who the father was as she had sex with her boyfriend in the evening and with his best friend in the morning. The answer was actually pretty good, focusing on using birth control (the pill) and condoms, without a hint of judgment for being "promiscuous".

Where I see porn as a potential problem, is when there have not been a development of critical thinking skills to be able to distinguish from fiction and reality. But it is not porn's job to teach that. It should be tought and learned in school and at home.

I'm trying to be sex-positive at home, but it is hard as I have no personal example or experience to draw from ... I'm just trying to be open to talk, but my older kid has already picked up the "embarrassed to talk about any of this things with mom" I don't know where. The younger one though, has no problem asking direct things and getting answers from me. I'm chalking up the difference to totally different personalities.

 

[where]

....

heh... I used to think the girls who were always moaning about period pain were swinging the lead until I was sterilised. I'm looking forward to the menopause and an end to the mood swings and pain.

back on topic.

I think what Rida is saying about the main problem being with people (and it's not just kids either) distinguishing fiction/fantasy from reality.

that said I am eternally grateful to some porn for a) introducing me to ass hooks and b) making me feel that my desires and fantasies are not wholly deviant and freakish.

 

[infinity706]

yeah. I was teaching sex and relationship ed to 15 year olds about four years ago
and they were basically saying that they didn't need it because they found out all they needed to know on you porn. I found it profoundly depressing and worrying. One of my colleagues was doing some research on young women's attitudes to sex and she was constantly finding that young girls (and we are talking under 16s here) would have anal sex so they didn't need to worry about contraception.

Anal sex is pretty awesome contraception. So far, I've heard of exactly one case where it led to pregnancy, as compared to a handful for condoms, diaphrams, IUDs, the pill, or spermicides. Sure, you might get STDs, but the pregancy rate is comprable to oral sex. (Yeah, I'm sure there's probably been a case of at some point of blowjob, cum swapping, and cunt lapping soon after that led to a pregnancy)

 

[where]

Anal sex is pretty awesome contraception. So far, I've heard of exactly one case where it led to pregnancy, as compared to a handful for condoms, diaphrams, IUDs, the pill, or spermicides. Sure, you might get STDs, but the pregancy rate is comprable to oral sex. (Yeah, I'm sure there's probably been a case of at some point of blowjob, cum swapping, and cunt lapping soon after that led to a pregnancy)

I'm not disputing the efficacy of it, rather that 12 year olds are having anal as a way of avoiding pregnancy when they should be using condoms. Or in school, the dirty little hussys!

 

[infinity706]

Yeah, condoms are important. I give them a ton of credit for helping me rack up over 230 partners without a single STD. I certainly have no objections to anal, though. As for in school, sure it might not be the best idea, but we wouldn't have all the great stories if everyone practiced sex only at home.

 

[where]

Yeah, condoms are important. I give them a ton of credit for helping me rack up over 230 partners without a single STD. I certainly have no objections to anal, though. As for in school, sure it might not be the best idea, but we wouldn't have all the great stories if everyone practiced sex only at home.

ahahahaha! funny!

to clarify I meant they should be in school learning not taking it up the ass!

which they shouldn't be doing anyway because they are underage.

 

[infinity706]

As long as they're not taking advantage of anyone, they may as well go ahead and fuck, anyway. I doubt being underage stopped anyone back when you were in school, either. Besides, if they're learning how to take it up the ass now, we'll see a reduction in anal how to threads when they get old enough to start posting on the internet.

 

[kaycee217]

...
My point is that it's understandable that young men would use commercial hardcore porn as a guide to sex and honestly, I see nothing wrong with this, AS LONG AS, he keeps his mind open to the fact that all women are different and commercial hardcore porn is often not what women want.

In bold: this is her point. My question to you then is this: why do you figure that this is understandable?

It's understandable because we live in a prude and gullible society. Young people aren't always given that much information and what information they're getting is not always being presented in a way that can counteract the influence of movies, music, and gossip.


Hypothetical:

I'm a virgin and my parents won't talk to me about sex, my friends have never had sex so I'm wary of any advice they're giving. My sex ed class consists of primarily abstinence education and a condom being placed on a banana. Now my partner wants to have sex. I watch porn online, but mostly the commercial stuff. I don't know about sites like this one because let's face it, I don't like to read for pleasure. So the only access to information about sex is commercial pornography and a few snippets of advice/experience from my equally inexperienced friends. Can you blame me for using commercial porn as my "default" approach to having sex?