Impregnating and Domination - Is there a link

[graceanne]

I think that both partners in a relationship should want a baby, or stay firmly on birth control. This is one of those 'know your pyl/PYL/partner' things. Make sure you know their hard limits and make sure that they work with yours. If you have no intention of having a child ever, DO NOT DATE someone who wants children. This is not rocket science. It's like making sure you're not getting together with a pedophile or necrophiliac. This is what checklists are for.

But I once read a D/s story about two people in a committed relationship, where they both wanted a child eventually, but it was up to the PYL (in this case a guy) to decide when. I can see that in a D/s relationship.

 

[00Syd]

I would never, ever, ever in a million years let a guy TELL me that I'm going to get pregnant, much less when how and where.

Natural order of things, my ass.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

This I can sort of in a very alternate universe kind of way understand. The pyl submits to the PYL's decision re: when to get pregnant, possibly how to give birth, how the child would be raised, yadayadayada. A stretch, but I can see it.

It does make me wonder though - a little while ago OSG mentioned that her Master made the decision she would terminate a pregnancy. A few people mentioned discomfort at the idea. Is the concept of dominating a woman through impregnation as discomforting, and if not - why?

I think that the discomfort is caused by the notion of an unborn child as the pawn of a capricious dominant. In western society, pregnancy or the termination thereof is seen as solely the woman's right. If the woman chooses to relinquish that right however, I don't really see how a man deciding his slave will terminate is more unpalatable than the slave herself deciding this, if she's willing to respect his decision. In osg's case, it was clear she would have chosen abortion anyway. Had she refused, he would not really have been able to force her.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I would never, ever, ever in a million years let a guy TELL me that I'm going to get pregnant, much less when how and where.

Natural order of things, my ass.

I don't agree it's a natural order of things but if you're in a committed D/s or TPE relationship that's wired that way, I don't really see it as that different from having other major life decisions made by a PYL.

 

[Scotsman69]

Beautiful discussion, but I must sleep.

Night all

 

[EmpressFi]

I don't hide the fact that I think the idea of impregnating a woman is highly erotic to me. But I was curious as well to the role it plays when it relates to D/s.

True submission, in my eyes, is a gift. And I can see no greater gift than for a woman to give herself in a way she is letting a man claim her womb with his seed.

The ultimate mark upon a woman's body. A collar can be removed, but when her round tummy on display for all to see, that is the ultimate submission.

Thoughts?

I will say that most of my submissive traits went out the window with my pregnancy. I know that's not the 'Norm" but something to think about. Im a mamabear now

 

[ownedsubgal]

I think that the discomfort is caused by the notion of an unborn child as the pawn of a capricious dominant. In western society, pregnancy or the termination thereof is seen as solely the woman's right. If the woman chooses to relinquish that right however, I don't really see how a man deciding his slave will terminate is more unpalatable than the slave herself deciding this, if she's willing to respect his decision. In osg's case, it was clear she would have chosen abortion anyway. Had she refused, he would not really have been able to force her.

in my case, my Master can indeed force me to do or be subjected to whatever he wills...having or not having a baby is fairly mild on the scale of his level of active control.

as far as the D/s in impregnation, i can definitely see that, if the individual couple is wired that way, but it's certainly far from a universal. while i am one to believe in the "natural order" of things, i do not agree with the concept of submission being a gift to a Dominant anymore than my brown eyes are a gift to my Master. it just is.

 

[CutieMouse]

in my case, my Master can indeed force me to do or be subjected to whatever he wills...having or not having a baby is fairly mild on the scale of his level of active control.

as far as the D/s in impregnation, i can definitely see that, if the individual couple is wired that way, but it's certainly far from a universal. while i am one to believe in the "natural order" of things, i do not agree with the concept of submission being a gift to a Dominant anymore than my brown eyes are a gift to my Master. it just is.

Ditto to the bolded bit.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't agree it's a natural order of things but if you're in a committed D/s or TPE relationship that's wired that way, I don't really see it as that different from having other major life decisions made by a PYL.

Well, except that it involves a person who has not consented to D/s.

I don't have the energy to argue about what's best for everyone, but I can't relinquish my parenting decisions to anyone else. I would be shocked if any parent would be okay with that.

About the most I can muster is that it's sort of hot to think about Mister Man knocking me up. I think it's mostly a matter of biological drive, nothing at all to do with D/s.

 

[graceanne]

Ditto to the bolded bit.

Actually, I agree on this one, too. As far as I'm concerned if submission is a gift to the dominant, then dominance is a gift to the pyl. Every relationship has a power dynamic, with a D/s relationship it's just more obvious.

 

[Netzach]

Sorry for the delay...

The natural order of nature is for the male to be dominant. By taking a woman who is fertile and getting her pregnant he is obeying natures most basic natural order.

I'm not here to convince anyone to see it the way I do.

Just expressing my feelings on the matter.

If you want to get really mammalian about it, uh, sorta.

After he's spooged he's pretty much out of there, off the job. Fatherhood is entirely a forced-march of kinship rules and expectations, he's free to go off and get eaten by a sabre tooth tiger or a bank merger after he's fulfilled his part.

We have wars primarily because men are biologically expendable almost entirely. He's only "got" her as long as he can actually hold on to her and patrol his turf. Someone else is in line for the job.

 

[Netzach]

This I can sort of in a very alternate universe kind of way understand. The pyl submits to the PYL's decision re: when to get pregnant, possibly how to give birth, how the child would be raised, yadayadayada. A stretch, but I can see it.

It does make me wonder though - a little while ago OSG mentioned that her Master made the decision she would terminate a pregnancy. A few people mentioned discomfort at the idea. Is the concept of dominating a woman through impregnation as discomforting, and if not - why?

Yes, because the result is not a freaking game. The result of NOT having a baby, if you belive abortion to be a medical issue on a non-child entity as I do is that it impacts you and you and pretty much no one else.

If you DO have a baby for some idiotic reason other than actively wanting a child, you're an asshole.

Period, in all cases. Full stop. Assholism comes in all forms from the geniune "oh shit it broke" to the "maybe he'll stay if I stick him with this" the latter being far more asshole.

I say this as someone who was had for purely non-me-related reasons. It's bullshit. It's varying levels of adult bullshit that effects people who have no fault in the process in ways you can't possibly guess.

So go ahead, play your little scene. When your children find out the rationale and stop speaking to you, I guess that's also the natural order of things.

 

[00Syd]

I don't agree it's a natural order of things but if you're in a committed D/s or TPE relationship that's wired that way, I don't really see it as that different from having other major life decisions made by a PYL.

Well, as I'm not one to ever allow a PYL to make any of my own major life decisions for me, I can't really comment on whether its the same or different, but in my mind, allowing someone to tell you when, how, and where to get pregnant is in a whole other realm of NEVER NEVER NEVER than having your PYL tell you when your allowed to go back to school or having your PYL in charge of your money or whatever.

And if the whole reason someone had a kid was because they were told to, well, I feel sorry for the kid.

 

[Etoile]

I believe osg started a thread about this a while back, too...can somebody dig that up? Hard to search from my phone.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Yes, because the result is not a freaking game. The result of NOT having a baby, if you belive abortion to be a medical issue on a non-child entity as I do is that it impacts you and you and pretty much no one else.

If you DO have a baby for some idiotic reason other than actively wanting a child, you're an asshole.

Period, in all cases. Full stop. Assholism comes in all forms from the geniune "oh shit it broke" to the "maybe he'll stay if I stick him with this" the latter being far more asshole.

I say this as someone who was had for purely non-me-related reasons. It's bullshit. It's varying levels of adult bullshit that effects people who have no fault in the process in ways you can't possibly guess.

So go ahead, play your little scene. When your children find out the rationale and stop speaking to you, I guess that's also the natural order of things.

well like with everything else, it comes down to one choosing the right Master/Owner. if you know that you desire children, that you want them with all your heart, you hopefully are careful to choose a Master who wants the same. then the fact that he makes the decision as to when and how those children will come about is as natural and organic as everything else he controls within the relationship. if you know that you do NOT desire children, if you just don't care for the little buggers or feel strongly that you would make a godawful parent, then hopefully you choose a Master who doesn't have a desire to knock you up. then his decision to abort the pregnancy, though shocking because you had no direct say in the matter, still flows in smoothly with the rest of the relationship.

now of course, Masters can change their minds. on a whim, even. one has to recognize that possibility as well and be prepared to deal with it. and when it's an issue as enormous and permanent as this one, and my Master and slave are not on the same page, it's a very sad and sorry situation for all involved.

 

[Netzach]

well like with everything else, it comes down to one choosing the right Master/Owner. if you know that you desire children, that you want them with all your heart, you hopefully are careful to choose a Master who wants the same. then the fact that he makes the decision as to when and how those children will come about is as natural and organic as everything else he controls within the relationship. if you know that you do NOT desire children, if you just don't care for the little buggers or feel strongly that you would make a godawful parent, then hopefully you choose a Master who doesn't have a desire to knock you up. then his decision to abort the pregnancy, though shocking because you had no direct say in the matter, still flows in smoothly with the rest of the relationship.

now of course, Masters can change their minds. on a whim, even. one has to recognize that possibility as well and be prepared to deal with it. and when it's an issue as enormous and permanent as this one, and my Master and slave are not on the same page, it's a very sad and sorry situation for all involved.

It's a question of the person in control thinking about his own potential offspring, not himself and his slave. If the person steering is clear-eyed enough as to what's actually a good idea and not, everything should be fine.

No amount of obedience training and lifestyle desire is going to make a shitty mother a good one. If Daddy Dearest is capable of being the primary caretaker then whatever. It's not like there's no workaround, but damn people, check your motivations at the door. Don't raise people all fucked up.

This lecture doesn't merely apply to M/s people, in fact mostly not. Way more mostly not. M/s couples probably have game plans more often.

Proof of Dominance remains shit-tastic rationale for reproducing. If it's a kink, that's cool. I have a kink for people chopping off penises in my honor, doesn't mean it's a good idea for the follow-through. Some things are better on paper.

If you have decided you want a baby already and it allows you this marvelous opportunity to get into your thing whilst knocking your SO up, go for it.

 

[Etoile]

This is the thread I meant, I guess: BDSM and Impregnation - it's five years old, no need to bump it, but it's good parallel reading for this thread.

 

[graceanne]

This is the thread I meant, I guess: BDSM and Impregnation - it's five years old, no need to bump it, but it's good parallel reading for this thread.

iwillnotbumpthethreadiwillnotbumpthethreadiwillnotbumpthethread

 

[Etoile]

iwillnotbumpthethreadiwillnotbumpthethreadiwillnotbumpthethread

I'm subscribed to that thread...I'll know if you bump it, gracie!

 

[graceanne]

I'm subscribed to that thread...I'll know if you bump it, gracie!

Do you know how hard it is to not bump things when I'm told, in bold, not to?

And now I KNOW you'll know.

iwillnotbumpthethreadiwillnotbumpthethreadwillnotbumpthethread

 

[intothewoods]

I got through most of it last night. That was a whopper of a thread!

 

[YourCaptor]

A link. Hmm...

From an evolutionary perspective, (which by the way is total crap and laced with biases, but fun anyway)

No

Not int he D/s sense. If a dom got his female pregnant all the time you would have kids running around at inopportune moments and without enough food to go around. Plus the female would probably die from too much stress on her body.

Theory is hominid women have the impregnate or not choice in nature, because they are the judge of adequate situation to have kids in. That's why women are naturally sexually aroused by lots of money.

Theory also states that all men fuck everything women looking in sight. So they would have little control over when, but simply are more of an activation switch when the women is ready.

However, impregnating my girl when I see fit, forcing her to go through that extended and taxing process, using her body as a vessel for my offspring. That is hot, especially when its against her will. It's like establishing total claim over her. But at the same time I know the moment need to be right. My first born is gonna be a lot of work for me, and I got to be more then ready for that. So when that times comes.

 

[CutieMouse]

A link. Hmm...

From an evolutionary perspective, (which by the way is total crap and laced with biases, but fun anyway)

No

Not int he D/s sense. If a dom got his female pregnant all the time you would have kids running around at inopportune moments and without enough food to go around. Plus the female would probably die from too much stress on her body.

Theory is hominid women have the impregnate or not choice in nature, because they are the judge of adequate situation to have kids in. That's why women are naturally sexually aroused by lots of money.

The money comment made me snort.

Theory also states that all men fuck everything women looking in sight. So they would have little control over when, but simply are more of an activation switch when the women is ready.

However, impregnating my girl when I see fit, forcing her to go through that extended and taxing process, using her body as a vessel for my offspring. That is hot, especially when its against her will. It's like establishing total claim over her. But at the same time I know the moment need to be right. My first born is gonna be a lot of work for me, and I got to be more then ready for that. So when that times comes.

[knee jerk childbirth physiology generic-you simpering neanderthal hijack]

I've managed to restrain this particular reaction, up until now...

During the process of pregnancy and birth, a perfectly healthy woman is closer to/at greater risk of death, than at any other time in her adult life.

Amniotic embolism... Total Hotness.



[/knee jerk childbirth physiology generic-you simpering neanderthal hijack]






(Nothing personal YC; my tolerance for the "oooh hot" just maxed out.)

 

[graceanne]

well like with everything else, it comes down to one choosing the right Master/Owner.

Which is pretty much what I said, but more succinct.

The money comment made me snort.



[knee jerk childbirth physiology generic-you simpering neanderthal hijack]

I've managed to restrain this particular reaction, up until now...

During the process of pregnancy and birth, a perfectly healthy woman is closer to/at greater risk of death, than at any other time in her adult life.

Amniotic embolism... Total Hotness.



[/knee jerk childbirth physiology generic-you simpering neanderthal hijack]






(Nothing personal YC; my tolerance for the "oooh hot" just maxed out.)

That's why it's men who think it's hot, they don't actually have to have the baby.

 

[Netzach]

Which is pretty much what I said, but more succinct.



That's why it's men who think it's hot, they don't actually have to have the baby.

The ratio of men to women who harbor this fantasy is slightly skewed. But that's true of most fantasies, there's less reliable data from women and fewer people are asking.

I know from my own circles that there are a lot of people who are SOOOO into how sexy and hot and earth mama they were pregnant that I can't say for sure women don't have some twisted little fantasies on this theme.

It's completely foreign to me, but people eroticize swiffers and boogers and dogs - the world is so widely weird.