Name your characters

[pink_silk_glove]

Is the setting of this story with the character named Kali which you're objecting to a Hindu-influenced setting? If it's not a Hindu-influenced setting, is it really so objectionable that you can't read it the way it was intended?

And if it is a Hindu-influenced setting, can you say why Kali is inappropriate while Lakshmi is appropriate? They're both widely worshipped deities. Maybe Kali more than Lakshmi, but Lakshmi according to Wikipedia is "one of the principal goddesses of Hinduism." She's not an obscure one.

I understand that in real life there are millions of Hindus named Lakshmi and (probably) none named Kali, but there has to be more to it than just "that's a prominent deity's name."

Given that Kali was captured by orcs, it's probably not a Hindu setting but who knows?

It's probably Kelly -> Kallie -> Kali, not unlike Carrie -> Kari -> Kerri, or Cayla -> Kayla -> Kyla -> Kylie. No big whoop. (shrug)

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Is the setting of this story with the character named Kali which you're objecting to a Hindu-influenced setting? If it's not a Hindu-influenced setting, is it really so objectionable that you can't read it the way it was intended?

It's not objectionable to me. It's distracting.

Another story on Lit takes place in a D&D-like world with elves and orcs. The lead characters have names like "Steve" and "Lisa". The elves have fantasy-elf names. I had the same reaction--it was out of place and took me out of immersion. Not saying it's some kind of crime, or even a problem for everyone, but that was my reaction.

Someone upthread mentioned historical fiction. It's the same concept. If you did an erotic story about Boudica of the Iceni, but your protagonist was named Tiffany, it would be distracting. At least for me.

-Eddie

 

[ronde]

So ... how do you folks name your characters? For my own fantasy stuff, I just sort of pick syllables that sound namelike together in a fake Indo-European language I'm assuming my European-like characters speak, being careful not to use anything I recognize as a real name.

I use a lot of different methods depending upon the time period. I also firmly believe that people either adopt a personality that matches their name or change their name to reflect their personality.

In general, my strong women have shorter, strong names like Joan or Elaine. More feminine women will be named with softer and longer names like Rebecca or Victoria. Male characters will usually have short, strong names like Dirk, Kent, or James. Men who are a bit softer will have softer-sounding names like Bruce or

I avoid the diminutive of names like Jimmy or Joey, Becky or Cindy unless I'm writing about the deep South. I might use the diminutive of a name if the character chooses to be called by that name. It's often that both men and women use the diminutive form if they think their full name is too "stuffy" or too "weak" to fit how they feel about the world.

If the story is set before about the early 1900's, women and men often will have Biblical names because those names were popular in the US at those times.

For Sci-Fi, I use the same "rules" but let my imagination run as far as spelling and pay more attention to how the name sounds and how it fits my character. My other rule for sci-fi names is the spelling of the name must be phonetic and easy to pronounce. It's a lot easier to read "Tiko" or "Xanmar" than "Phoenichiana" or "Mealandorici".

 

[Britva415]

It's not objectionable to me. It's distracting.

You're objecting to the distraction, but OK, point taken.

What about Lakshmi? Why does a human character called Kali push this button for you but a human Lakshmi is OK?

 

[ChuckWolf]

I just saw a story in the SF & Fantasy category with a protagonist who is named "Kali". To me, that was an instant, "Don't read that."

"Kali" is literally one of the most famous names on the planet. There are over a billion Hindus on the planet, plus people like me who know about Hinduism. The author named the character after one of the most widely-worshiped deities. It's distracting. I'm not meaning to mock the author. I just think that name takes away immersion because it doesn't fit, since the story is about a D&D-like environment--at least, she's "Captured by Orcs". (That's the title.) A character named "Lakshmi" in a Hinduism-influenced setting would be totally appropriate.

So ... how do you folks name your characters? For my own fantasy stuff, I just sort of pick syllables that sound namelike together in a fake Indo-European language I'm assuming my European-like characters speak, being careful not to use anything I recognize as a real name.

-Eddie

If this was my story, the character was actually named, "Kalindraa".

 

[StillStunned]

It's not objectionable to me. It's distracting.

Another story on Lit takes place in a D&D-like world with elves and orcs. The lead characters have names like "Steve" and "Lisa". The elves have fantasy-elf names. I had the same reaction--it was out of place and took me out of immersion. Not saying it's some kind of crime, or even a problem for everyone, but that was my reaction.

Someone upthread mentioned historical fiction. It's the same concept. If you did an erotic story about Boudica of the Iceni, but your protagonist was named Tiffany, it would be distracting. At least for me.

-Eddie

Raymond Feist can be particularly bad with this. Between characters like Borric, Arutha, Milamber, you also have Jimmy and Admiral Nicky.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

You're objecting to the distraction, but OK, point taken.

What about Lakshmi? Why does a human character called Kali push this button for you but a human Lakshmi is OK?

In a non-Earth setting, Lakshmi would have been just as out of place for me as Kali. Or, oh, Johannan (Hebrew, one translation being "God's Gift").

 

[pink_silk_glove]

In a non-Earth setting, Lakshmi would have been just as out of place for me as Kali. Or, oh, Johannan (Hebrew, one translation being "God's Gift").

So then, Luke Skywalker is right out.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

So then, Luke Skywalker is right out.

Well, yes.

Not that big a fan of that series, and Luke's name did lose me a bit of immersion.

Again: I'm not saying everyone has to feel this way. It just made me think about the topic of the thread, how people pick or create character names.

 

[Voboy]

OP, it seems to me you're just proving once again what a lot of us already know: that there's no such thing as a monolithic reader. We can never, ever know "what the reader wants," so we're best off not trying. A number of new writers ask about that sort of thing, so I guess this thread is useful that way?

But honestly, if you're picky enough that "Luke" is going to take you out of Star Wars, then I'm doubtful you can suspend your disbelief enough to enjoy much of any SF/Fantasy. Can I ask whether you're similarly put out by the constant use of the normal, contemporary English name Sam in Lord of the Rings? Or Bill Ferny? Paul Atreides? Is he a problem for you?

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I already said that I didn't think everyone would react like me. I'm not sure why you had to angrily say it back to me.

Like I said twice now: the point of the thread was "How do you name your characters?" not "This particular author was wrong."

-Eddie

 

[Voboy]

I already said that I didn't think everyone would react like me. I'm not sure why you had to angrily say it back to me.

Like I said twice now: the point of the thread was "How do you name your characters?" not "This particular author was wrong."

-Eddie

Well, but unless that particular author chimes in here with an explanation of how or why they came up with "Kali," then your example is not really useful, honestly. You could have just as easily asked "How do you name your characters" and then left out the rant entirely. You've now made me curious about how you see other names, too; I'm fascinated, not angry.

You might have had more luck simply sending feedback to the writer and asking why they picked Kali.

 

[SimonDoom]

I already said that I didn't think everyone would react like me. I'm not sure why you had to angrily say it back to me.

Like I said twice now: the point of the thread was "How do you name your characters?" not "This particular author was wrong."

-Eddie

I don't think he's angry. I think he's curious.

As for me, I'm not especially picky. My own personal preference in naming characters in a Sci Fi story set in an alternative universe is to make up names that resemble, but do not mimic, names that would be familar to an American reader. I'll incorporate familiar names, too.

Words have no intrinsic meanings, so if an author picked "Kali" as a name for a character it wouldn't bother me, and it wouldn't bother me if they picked "Jesus," either.

 

[Voboy]

I don't think he's angry. I think he's curious.

This. I am, very.

 

[Unblemished]

It's not objectionable to me. It's distracting.

Another story on Lit takes place in a D&D-like world with elves and orcs. The lead characters have names like "Steve" and "Lisa". The elves have fantasy-elf names. I had the same reaction--it was out of place and took me out of immersion. Not saying it's some kind of crime, or even a problem for everyone, but that was my reaction.

Someone upthread mentioned historical fiction. It's the same concept. If you did an erotic story about Boudica of the Iceni, but your protagonist was named Tiffany, it would be distracting. At least for me.

-Eddie

Funnily enough, “The Tiffany Effect” is actually the phrase used when this is wrong:

The Tiffany Effect is the belief that something is more modern than it actually is. So, for example, central heating could be an example of The Tiffany effect if you thought it was a modern invention and not a technology originally introduced by the Ancient Greeks and Romans. Or glasses, which were first worn in 1290.

I thought that the name Tiffany simply had to be a 20th century introduction, popularised in 1961 by the film “Breakfast at Tiffany’s.”…But it turns out I was wrong because the name Tiffany was recorded in 1200 as a first name, traditionally given to girls born on 6th January, the Feast of the Epiphany. The spelling in Old French was “Tifinie” and it derives from a Greek word, Theophaneia, which originally means “manifestation of god.”

Sometimes things are more realistic than you think.

(Still more recent than the Iceni, yes, but it’s absolutely not a modern name and would be totally fine for, say, a medieval fantasy)

 

[ChuckWolf]

Well, but unless that particular author chimes in here with an explanation of how or why they came up with "Kali," then your example is not really useful, honestly. You could have just as easily asked "How do you name your characters" and then left out the rant entirely. You've now made me curious about how you see other names, too; I'm fascinated, not angry.

You might have had more luck simply sending feedback to the writer and asking why they picked Kali.

Not 100% sure, but I think the OP is referring to one of my stories, which they'd recently provided insight and feedback on.

The character was called, "Kalindraa" and was kind of based on the goddess Kali and spiders; I hadn't put a great deal of thought into it, I just wanted a six-armed antagonist for the story.

 

[Britva415]

In a non-Earth setting, Lakshmi would have been just as out of place for me as Kali.

I'm confused. Are there Hindu people on Earth named Kali? I thought you were saying there weren't, that no human anywhere ever should be called Kali. Did I get that wrong? Sorry if that's the case.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I'm confused. Are there Hindu people on Earth named Kali? I thought you were saying there weren't, that no human anywhere ever should be called Kali. Did I get that wrong? Sorry if that's the case.

No, I'm certain there are people named Kali. I'm also sure it's less common than Lakshmi, just because I know of lots of Lakshmis, and I don't even live in India. I just picked Lakshmi because it's also a goddess name from Hinduism.

 

[TheLobster]

Can I ask whether you're similarly put out by the constant use of the normal, contemporary English name Sam in Lord of the Rings?

Purely for the sake of pedantry: Sam isn’t actually called Sam because LotR isn’t “originally” written in English.

The whole novel is presented as a translation of the in-universe The Red Book of Westmarch. Tolkien uses a translation convention where Westron is translated to modern English, Rohirric to Old English, and elven languages are given in the original. If you watched the movies you can see Frodo finishing the book somewhere towards the end.

 

[Voboy]

Purely for the sake of pedantry: Sam isn’t actually called Sam because LotR isn’t “originally” written in English.

The whole novel is presented as a translation of the in-universe The Red Book of Westmarch. Tolkien uses a translation convention where Westron is translated to modern English, Rohirric to Old English, and elven languages are given in the original. If you watched the movies you can see Frodo finishing the book somewhere towards the end.

I'm aware. Sam's "real nickname" was "Ban."

But the question still has validity, surely, if only because Sam and Bill are two of VERY few characters in the entire LOTR that have "normal" names, as glossed by Tolkien. So amidst a welter of Merrys and Fangorns and Denethors and Halbarads, I remain curious whether Sam takes the OP out of the story the way he claims Luke does.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I'm aware. Sam's "real nickname" was "Ban."

But the question still has validity, surely, if only because Sam and Bill are two of VERY few characters in the entire LOTR that have "normal" names, as glossed by Tolkien. So amidst a welter of Merrys and Fangorns and Denethors and Halbarads, I remain curious whether Sam takes the OP out of the story the way he claims Luke does.

I'm sure this is not a satisfying answer, but I first read LOTR so long ago, I don't remember how I reacted. Now, it feels natural because I've seen it and read it so many times.

-Eddie

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Given that Kali was captured by orcs, it's probably not a Hindu setting but who knows?

It's probably Kelly -> Kallie -> Kali, not unlike Carrie -> Kari -> Kerri, or Cayla -> Kayla -> Kyla -> Kylie. No big whoop. (shrug)

That would be my assumption encountering a Kali in a story. It was a creative spelling of Callie or something similar.

My mind certainly wouldn't go to, "OMG, how dare you name a character after a Hindu deity."

The whole naming issue is one where writers lose a lot of sleep over things readers don't really care about.

Look at the Science Fiction Grandmasters.
Asimov used names that were common for his time. Daniel (Daneel but close enough), Harry, Susan and Elijah for instance.
Heinlein, Niven, Clarke and the rest did as well.

Plenty of names are a 1000 years old, it isn't likely they are going to go extinct 200 years from now.

 

[AlexIce]

With my characters, I'll sometimes consult databases as to the year they were born relative to when the story takes places.

I've seen relatively new stories in which teenagers/young adults year olds are given "older people" names like Randy, Dennis, Donna, Tammy, Barbara, etc. and that just completely takes me out of the story. So I try to a conscious effort to avoid things like that.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

With my characters, I'll sometimes consult databases as to the year they were born relative to when the story takes places.

I've seen relatively new stories in which teenagers/young adults year olds are given "older people" names like Randy, Dennis, Donna, Tammy, Barbara, etc. and that just completely takes me out of the story. So I try to a conscious effort to avoid things like that.

But those aren't "older people's names" from a practical perspective. "Old people names" like Henry make the most popular baby name list every year.

 

[Britva415]

Sam and Bill are two of VERY few characters in the entire LOTR that have "normal" names, as glossed by Tolkien. So amidst a welter of Merrys and Fangorns and Denethors and Halbarads, I remain curious whether Sam takes the OP out of the story the way he claims Luke does.

Giving Sam and Bill prosaic names conveys to the reader that they're prosaic, salt-of-the-earth type characters. And it makes them relatable. Part of the charm of the story is that it includes "regular people" types in the narrative and isn't 100% about exceptional individuals or exotic species of humanoids.

Plus, I don't remember about Bill but Sam's name was given as Samwise early on, so, readers would still get the flavor of a (mildly) unearthly name for that guy before it was shortened to Sam.

As far as "Luke" goes, fuck if I know. He's the first character we meet in the entire saga, no? We meet him so early that we don't have any time to form any sort of impression that people shouldn't be called Luke in that universe. We don't find out until later that most people don't have normal real-life names. Owen is a normal name too. So is "Ben," even though it's not his real name.