new poems

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: May 16, 2003

There was no such agreement. Remember that the goal of this forum is the advancement of poetry. Poets should introduce no ad hoc, artificial, bureaucratic rule which would stifle a free exchange of opinions. The intention of this thread was that its participants would alert other participants to the new Literotica poems which they like. That should not stop anybody from stating an opposite opinion in THIS thread. Breaking a discussion into pieces, taking away the spontaneity of the expression has been never, until now, proposed. And the same goes for other "praising" threads. Angeline, stop making false claims. Stifling a discussion by any means should be beneath poets, it is against the free, artistic spirit.

On the other hand calling junk by its proper name is very much so, in the spirit, and serves the advancement of poetry on this forum. If you think that a piece is not junk then just say so. That's all. Say: This piece is in my opinion a jewel of the world literature! -- see how easy?! And then justify your opinion. Well, now it's harder

Giving this much consideration, I agree that this thread should simply focus on recommendations. Senna, you may want to start a Review thread where you can discuss the new offerings from the lit poetry community. But do remember that some of the poetry (that may not meet the standards of those of us who take writing more seriously) should not be ripped apart and stomped upon. There is no purpose. Those poems are usually submitted by members who are not poets, but simply people wanting to submit a poem for fun, or to express some deeply felt emotion to a loved one. Most of these people are not interested in being poets, and therefore, there is no reason to comment negatively on their efforts.

 

[Guest]

W.E.
Thank you for your kind mention.

everything is never said
for mention
nothing is left loose
for tension


oops!

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Re: Re: May 16, 2003

Giving this much consideration,

Not enough. And just now? Under these circumstances? How always convenient? What about views which do not depend on the momentary social and "political" considerations?

... there is no reason to comment negatively on their efforts.

And there is no reason to praise them.

Also, I was for all this my Literotica year not much active anyway. Occasionally I criticised the poems which either were misleadingly praised (which harmed most every participant's understanding of poetry), or poems when their authors have demanded quite energetically a straight assassment. Then some of them and some of you would wine. So be it. Thats' why it is hard to get any poetic progress here, it is too stifling here. If anybody could have a positive influence, it would be you, Eve. But you often choose your friendships to get in your artistic way. On this forum try to be poet first, and the rest will fall in its place.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: Re: Re: May 16, 2003

Not enough. And just now? Under these circumstances? How always convenient? What about views which do not depend on the momentary social and "political" considerations? And there is no reason to praise them.

Also, I was for all this my Literotica year not much active anyway. Occasionally I criticised the poems which either were misleadingly praised (which harmed most every participant's understanding of poetry), or poems when their authors have demanded quite energetically a straight assassment. Then some of them and some of you would wine. So be it. Thats' why it is hard to get any poetic progress here, it is too stifling here. If anybody could have a positive influence, it would be you, Eve. But you often choose your friendships to get in your artistic way. On this forum try to be poet first, and the rest will fall in its place.

I really have been thinking about this for some time. Originally, I wanted a thread where we could actually discuss and objectively review the new poems. But this thread is for recommendations. Leave it that way and start a new thread for new poetry reviews.

I meant, do not negatively comment or praise. There is no point in commenting on those poems that pop up by a newbie that are dedicated to tears or lust. What's the point? You'll most likely never hear from them again, anyway.

And I admit recently that I read a review recommending a poem that I found to be overly dramatic. It has potential, but like many pieces that are submitted to lit, it was not polished. I too am guilty of that. But I held my tongue (slippery little dickens) and abided by the wishes of the majority.

So once again, SJ, start a new thread and review poems, offer constructive crits, etc. Or let's, at least, move this conversation to another thread.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: 5-17

Originally posted by WickedEve (but I have corrected the two typos below, in the quotes from my poem)


spring in california
by Senna Jawa ©

    false february spring
    fools trees into blooming
    early spring's irish creeks
    sneak into my blood streams


One question about this stanza, SJ. Is it suppose to be creaks or creeks?


    welcome (!) the early spring in my late autumn
    i bathe in champagne bubbles
    on my way to the bottom


It should be bathe. I do like this last stanza -- good ending.

Ouch! Two bad typos. Frustrating. Thank you for pointing them out to me, and for your similar editorial comments about my "19th hole". And for mentioning the poem in this thread.

    my oh my
    her name was computer science
    she was a calculating type
    but we formed a heavenly alliance
    now I miss her bits and bytes


This stanza of computer science and bytes protrudes oddly, in my opinion only, in the middle of a poem with spring and champagne.

Overall, good poem that's worth a read.

Remember to do your elementary reader's duty first. Read everything literally first, not symbolically. Thus think about the woman not in the symbolic terms but that she was simply a software engineer or a computer science expert. Only then, optionally(!), think more abstractly about her character. (This misreading of my poem is less dramatic than in the case of "logarithmic in a compact car" a time ago but nevertheless it is very telling!!! It has its ramifications, implications).

Oh boy, just imagine that you didn't have this part. You would end up with just another poem. This stanza is the crucial part which creates in this poem's (social) space (dimension: from computers to the dancing floor) and it gives their characters life and their uniqueness. This is what makes this poem strong and not just a piece of candy in a colorful candy wrap for toothless readers.

The poem has also its time dimension. The present time and the memories.

 

[WickedEve]

Well, I did figure that this gal of yours was into computers, and I realize that was why you probably mentioned it, and it does make the poem more unique. Though it does kind of jump out at you. Is that good or bad? I guess it depends on the reader.

 

[Rybka]

Meanings?

...Remember to do your elementary reader's duty first. Read everything literally first, not symbolically. Thus think about the woman not in the symbolic terms but that she was simply a software engineer or a computer science expert. Only then, optionally(!), think more abstractly about her character. (This misreading of my poem is less dramatic than in the case of "logarithmic in a compact car" a time ago but nevertheless it is very telling!!! It has its ramifications, implications).
...

Dang! There I go again with my Frosty meanings.
I presumed from first read that there was no real woman, just computer science in a metaphor. How stupid of me.

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Thanks for the review, Eve. It's been a very busy day.

Rybka, don't worry. My first, second and third literal reads all said there was no woman involved.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Well, I did figure that this gal of yours was into computers, and I realize that was why you probably mentioned it, and it does make the poem more unique. Though it does kind of jump out at you.

Eve, why "jump"?! Spring brings memories. Spring brings her, that computer science lady. Thus she associates with Spring. Everything's green. But it is a false spring, the poem says at the start, she was a calculating type. The lirical subject (the "I" of the poem) is thus confused about the whole experience. The poem is integrated, nothing is jumpin' in it. My rec.arts.poems friend form the past, Barry Schwartz, would say that the poem is organic (everything follows organically).

Yes, the poem has unexpected turns, computers and "romantic" champagne. It keeps you on your toes, it says things which you do not expect, as poems should. (You were on the diet of the hm-poems and stories with a look into eyes, a kiss on the lips, then the travel down South, for too long).

Is that good or bad? I guess it depends on the reader.

Indeed.

But show me Eve any poem with this kind of "jumping" and I will show you a very good poem. They are rare indeed.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Rybka, don't worry. My first, second and third literal reads all said there was no woman involved.

Now, Rybka, you should be extremely worried, very anxious.

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...] Tell everyone the many ways in which my poetry stinks. As I said, I won't see it.

Your inelegant slander notwithstanding, I always comment on poems objectively, to the best of my ability.

(You can say the opposite about our snotty random spinner, Laurel Hynde).

You are not snotty, Angeline, you tend to be straightforward, which is nice, and in certain ways you are naive. It is a pity that in this conflict you are hypocritical. You are also irrationally stubborn, you do not want to admit that you were wrong. You're sinking deeper and deeper, lower each time. Your choice.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Meanings?

Dang![...]I presumed from first read that there was no real woman, just computer science in a metaphor. [...]
Regards,                                 Rybka

The author's duty is to provide images, colors, movement, sound, smells... and nothing else. Anything extra would be in bad taste, would be killing poetry. The reader's duty is to recreate in her/his mind the provided images, movement, smells,... And only then the reader, as the simple result of the main activity, may either get the transcendental reflections as a stright bonus or s/he may dwell on the poem, may come back to it after a while, and so on. The author only induces the reflections. When I write "she was a calculating type", then first of all it means that this woman's work was to calculate, to compute. And only the reflection tells us that perhaps she was overly pragmatic and practical in her life.

Your abstract reading, Rybka, is fine and valuable(!), but only as an additional secondary reflection and association. It is rather an association than a full interpretation:

By an interpretation I mean a reading which is not contradictory with any part of the poem. But it would be stretching it too much to assume that the poem's champagne and dancing is not real champagne and dancing, that theu are just metaphors for some intelectual experiences. It would deprive the poem of too much. Thus your reading should only complement the straight action of the poem. One may indeed allow himself an association, an image in which the woman is a metaphor for an intelectual trip. It would be only a reflection in addition to the real scene with the real bones and skin and the better parts too.

 

[Rybka]

Re: Re: Meanings?

The author's duty is to provide images, colors, movement, sound, smells... and nothing else. Anything extra would be in bad taste, would be killing poetry. The reader's duty is to recreate in her/his mind the provided images, movement, smells,... And only then the reader, as the simple result of the main activity, may either get the transcendental reflections as a stright bonus or s/he may dwell on the poem, may come back to it after a while, and so on. The author only induces the reflections. When I write "she was a calculating type", then first of all it means that this woman's work was to calculate, to compute. And only the reflection tells us that perhaps overly pragmatic and practical in her life.

Your abstract reading, Rybka, is fine and valuable(!), but only as an additional secondary reflection and association. It is rather an association than a full interpretation:

By an interpretation I mean a reading which is not contradictory with any part of the poem. But it would be stretching it too much to assume that the poem's champagne and dancing is not real champagne and dancing, that theu are just metaphors for some intelectual experiences. It would deprive the poem of too much. Thus your reading should only complement the straight action of the poem. One may indeed allow himself an association, an image in which the woman is a metaphor for an intelectual trip. It would be only a reflection in addition to the real scene with the real bones and skin and the better parts too.

That is why I called it "Frosty", in respect for Robert. Who said on several occasions, words to the effect, "Anything beyond the surface words, the reader created for himself."

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[RazzRajen]

Re: 5-17

....
I enjoy R.R.'s poetry. He usually offers something unique in the sea of mundane poetry.

Thanks Eve for the mention and the sentiment....
Much appreciated.

Razz

 

[Rybka]

new poems on 5/18/03

Today brings us 9 new poems and one “spinner”. Here is the "old timer" that caught my eye for today, Unsoundwaves by Cordelia

UNSOUNDWAVES

There are no violins on the moon;
and no nightingales.
The purpose of innocence
remains to be discovered
in the splintered remnants of peanut-butter memories.
So, take my hand while there's still time.
We can't compete with mediocrity.
And, screaming,
the wounded secret provides an anticlimax
for some celestial drama.
And the sandman is waiting under the marquee;
but that isn't my name in lights.
I saw a cloud move like this once,
unnaturally,
like a stream of my thoughts.
I hurry to catch up with you.
You tell me I write nothing like Dylan Thomas.
Unknowingly, you've stuck a grudge
somewhere between my shoulders,
and white things seep into my line of vision.
I wish I had your purpleness back
because you're listening to me now,
and I wish I had more to say.

Well, Dylan Thomas could never write like me.

I thought the final "could" a tad presumptive. Maybe a "w" would be more realistic than the "c", but I liked the poem anyway!

Since there are only 9 new poems today, and we aren't allowed to call CRAP, crap on this board anymore, you might as well go read them all for yourself and decide what you like or don't. I only found one to rise above average. See if you can find it. ("There must be a pony in there somewhere!")

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[WickedEve]

not bad...

don't fix me
by Maria2394 ©

the doctor has a mold
imprinted in his mind
endowed with scalpels and visions
of what he thinks is fine

his clay is flesh and bone
his artistry refined
by years of sculpting cadavers
artificial perfection in mind

The first two stanzas are the strongest.

----------

There is one E poem today, but I can't recommend it because of people running hand in hand. And corn listening with erotic ears is just... um... corny.

Okay, which one was your pony, Rybka?

 

[Cordelia]

Thanks for bringing that poem to the surface, Rybka. It was one of my first attempts at free verse. It was rather "freeing" in my growth as a writer.

And the last line was intended to be more petulant than presumptuous. I guess it didn't come through. Yet another learning experience.

Thanks again, fishy.

Gratefully,


Cordelia

 

[Angeline]

Thanks for bringing that poem to the surface, Rybka.

Hahahaha. Good one Cordie! Rybka, you've resubmerged?

 

[Maria2394]

thank you Eve, couldnt help but try to be funny, doesnt always come out that way tho... was wondering about extreme makeover...who would realy want to "win" that contest? ( giggle)

also, I feel like some enlightened voyeur, learning about all you Lit people on here, wondering if and where I might fit in. appreciate your welcoming me here.if I dare wedge my tiny fragile ego in amomgst the accomplished, will I still be a voyeur? or now a participant...

-------- and Rybka..you are so funny!! seriousness is way overrated nowa days..whats with the fish?

 

[WickedEve]

thank you Eve, couldnt help but try to be funny, doesnt always come out that way tho... was wondering about extreme makeover...who would realy want to "win" that contest? ( giggle)

also, I feel like some enlightened voyeur, learning about all you Lit people on here, wondering if and where I might fit in. appreciate your welcoming me here.if I dare wedge my tiny fragile ego in amomgst the accomplished, will I still be a voyeur? or now a participant...

-------- and Rybka..you are so funny!! seriousness is way overrated nowa days..whats with the fish?

So you wanna fit in, do you? Ange lube her up with some of that oily Rybka fish so was can squeeze the newbie in!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Today brings us an E on a really good poem.

Butterfly Boots by Rybka.

The formatting drives me nuts. I almost skipped this one, but I caught the words in the oilfields and wanted to read it. Let's just say that I'm a master with find'n replace now.

Haiku with added disinfectant by kleve

Interesting. It really didn't hold with the spirit of the form, but it was effective none-the-less.



And so brings me to the end of my interesting reads for the day.

 

[Angeline]

So you wanna fit in, do you? Ange lube her up with some of that oily Rybka fish so was can squeeze the newbie in!

Yes, I imagine your Christmas Tub 'O Lube is gone by now. (Darn, Lauren we should have got her more for Mother's Day.) Ok, cmere Rybka, lol.

Maria, run while you can

 

[Rybka]

Thank You, K.M.

Today brings us an E on a really good poem.

Butterfly Boots by Rybka.

The formatting drives me nuts. I almost skipped this one, but I caught the words in the oilfields and wanted to read it. Let's just say that I'm a master with find'n replace now.
...

Thank you Oh Great Cockroach Fodder!
I am not quite sure what the "I'm a master with find'n replace now" means, or why you object to the format, (It is very logical when you read it {and it can be read several ways}, but I am glad you took the time to read the poem and decide that you like it.
I sent a thank you to Laurel for the "E", but I still value my "L" even more!

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[KillerMuffin]

Reading text like that is really, really hard on a computer screen. I couldn't keep the lines straight so the poem ended up making no sense until I put it in my word processor and used find'n replace to remove all of the spaces. It made all of the text flush with left margin. I don't have any ink at the moment, so I couldn't print it out.

 

[Rybka]

Computer Display

Reading text like that is really, really hard on a computer screen. I couldn't keep the lines straight so the poem ended up making no sense until I put it in my word processor and used find'n replace to remove all of the spaces. It made all of the text flush with left margin. I don't have any ink at the moment, so I couldn't print it out.

What kind of computer do you have, and what browser do you use? - The display is almost perfect on my screen. Laurel did a very good job this time.

If you can read a "Word .doc" I can send you the original. E-mail me if you want it. - Anyone else have trouble with the display and want a "Word" copy?

I was surprised when it was posted as a two page poem. Has anyone else posted a multi-page poem?

Regards,                                 Rybka