Newbie Domm looking for advice.

[AngelicAssassin]

I think that romance novels have a lot to answer for.

Sounds like good fodder for a bonfire. Wait. That's so unLit ...

 

[Etoile]

I am wondering about the difference between love and romance. I am pretty sure I couldn't submit to somebody I didn't love. But is it always romantic love? Eb, what are your thoughts on the difference between love and romance? Is it important to have love in your relationships?

 

[FurryFury]

Sounds like good fodder for a bonfire. Wait. That's so unLit ...

LMAO!

Fury

 

[Acoradra]

Bonfires are unlit? aren't they just piles of wood in that case?

 

[s_red830]

ooooh.

:sits back and watches where this thread will go, not having enough experience to really contribute:

 

[Evil_Geoff]

ooooh.

:sits back and watches where this thread will go, not having enough experience to really contribute:

Heheheheh... just egging them on and letting them know they have an audience is really contributing! *lol*

 

[Ebonyfire]

I am wondering about the difference between love and romance.

I am pretty sure I couldn't submit to somebody I didn't love.

Are you talking about love the emotion or love the action? I prefer love that is action oriented. If a slave never says he loves me, I am fine with that. But I find that a slave can show love by his behavior.
I am concerned with what a slave does, not what he says. Talk is indeed cheap to Me.

Men and women can submit for different reasons. The men I prefer as submissives are service oriented.

They want to be used or to be useful to a dominant woman.

Many have been married to dominant women who have died, and they miss having a dominant woman to serve and to obey.

Many have learned to love the women whom they have served, and many just have affection and friendship, and caring. The result is the same, because the goal is perfect service. In return, they get to live the liefstyle with the a person who totally understands them and their submissive needs.

But is it always romantic love?

No it is not. Let's look at romance. In a service oriented D/s relationship, romance occurs out of the service orientation of the submissive or slave. It is his job to make his Dominant's life easier, more pleasant, and more fulfilling. SO he will do the things that many women find romantic because he wants to actively show his devotion to his Mistress.
The action is the same, but the label is "business as usual".

Is it important to have love in your relationships?

No it is not important. I love myself. I love my family. There are many kinds of love in this world, and I do not obsess over it. I am loved by a lot of people and vice versa. We show it in many different ways.

It is the behavior of love that is useful to me. Not the romantic fantasy. I only allow men I like and respect as human beings and men serve me. After that I let nature take its course.


Eb

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I am wondering about the difference between love and romance. I am pretty sure I couldn't submit to somebody I didn't love. But is it always romantic love? Eb, what are your thoughts on the difference between love and romance? Is it important to have love in your relationships?

I think as long as respect, trust and desire are in place, there doesn't always have to be love. Especially at the beginning of a liason.

 

[FurryFury]

*sings*

"Oh, what's love got to do, got to do with it? Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken."

But seriously, in the best of all possible worlds, I'd love and be loved. I'd be his precious little girl and do what he wanted. It would also mostly be what I wanted but in some cases was too afraid or uptight to do and sometimes it would be stuff I didn't want to do. I'd have to struggle with all of that and he would help me through it.

I have found in RL that friendship and love form a much better foundation for any relationship that romantic ideals of love do.

Fury

 

[s_red830]

:sings: OOOOOOOOooooh,

♪Some they like it this way,
And some they like it that.
A lady dips a curtsey,
A gentleman dips his hat;
Some they like 'em big and fat
And others meek and small,
But whatever they say (whatever they say)
It's only human nature after all!♪

I think I would have to trust that she was being honest with me, and I'd have to respect her as well. Because if I did it out of something other than respect, then it would become something actually cruel and demeaning.

 

[Etoile]

Are you talking about love the emotion or love the action? I prefer love that is action oriented. If a slave never says he loves me, I am fine with that. But I find that a slave can show love by his behavior.
I am concerned with what a slave does, not what he says. Talk is indeed cheap to Me.

Men and women can submit for different reasons. The men I prefer as submissives are service oriented.

I certainly wasn't referring to paying lip service to love. I mean loving. Whether that is shown by service or by being sweet and romantic...it is still love. I am very familiar with being service-oriented (it is important in the leathergirl community), and I know the value of service. But I don't think there is service without love. Perhaps it is called being "caring" by some...that you care about, or value someone, enough to be in service to them. I call it love. For the dominant's side, I feel that appreciating someone's service is a form of love. For professional dominants, they are not appreciating any particular individual's service...they can pick and choose their clients. And although they may feel close to some, I would bet that most do not love their clients - because it is not personal.

I guess when I hear the phrase "a relationship without love" I think of basically a mutually beneficial, but non-caring relationship. Individual personalities don't matter, nor do individual skills. Each partner is interchangeable with others - there is no particular attachment between the two individuals. The pyl would be able to serve anyone who accepts their service, and the PYL would accept service from anyone. Sure, maybe the pyl is particularly good at __(insert skill here)___ and so they are valued for that skill...but not for the person behind it. Someone else might be equally good at that skill. There is no love in the relationship between these two.

But if someone is special as an individual, and is not just the sum of their parts or good at some skill, and each partner places a value upon the other for who they are - that is love.

No it is not. Let's look at romance. In a service oriented D/s relationship, romance occurs out of the service orientation of the submissive or slave. It is his job to make his Dominant's life easier, more pleasant, and more fulfilling. SO he will do the things that many women find romantic because he wants to actively show his devotion to his Mistress.
The action is the same, but the label is "business as usual".

Ah, but that's the difference - "the things that many women find romantic" is not the same thing as romance (to me). What you have described as a service-oriented relationship is not at all romantic to me. There is no love. Again, it is mutually beneficial, but there is no romance, no love.

I definitely think relationships can be both service-oriented and romantic. To me they are not mutually exclusive. I am involved in a discussion group for leathergirls, and we pretty much all define ourselves as service-oriented...indeed, that is a major part of the self-description of a leathergirl. But we also love and are romantic with our partners. Maybe it's different for men? Maybe men can be exclusively service-oriented with no romantic or loving attachment? I guess I don't have enough knowledge of submissive men to know about this. But pretty much all of the leathergirls I know, both gay and straight leathergirls, are service-oriented and loving individuals.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I guess when I hear the phrase "a relationship without love" I think of basically a mutually beneficial, but non-caring relationship.

Really? What does love have to do with caring?
I personally do not think that love and caring are the same things. But others may feel differently.

I have trouble with the idea that love somehow elevates a relationship to a higher level. I think not.
Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

I definitely think relationships can be both service-oriented and romantic. To me they are not mutually exclusive

And where I differ is that I do not feel they need to be mutually inclusive.

To each his or her own. Since I only identify with myself and not any other groups, I can make the rules that work for me and mine (which I do). YMMV.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Ah, but that's the difference - "the things that many women find romantic" is not the same thing as romance (to me). What you have described as a service-oriented relationship is not at all romantic to me. There is no love. Again, it is mutually beneficial, but there is no romance, no love.

And again it is the difference between My world and yours. We do not live the same way and we do not conduct our lives in the same manner. We do not come from the same background, so there is no basis for comparison. Your needs and My needs are totally different.

There is no reason for you to understand my point of view. I certainly do not understand yours.

Differences are fine in My book.

Eb

 

[Etoile]

And again it is the difference between My world and yours. We do not live the same way and we do not conduct our lives in the same manner. We do not come from the same background, so there is no basis for comparison. Your needs and My needs are totally different.

There is no reason for you to understand my point of view. I certainly do not understand yours.

I didn't mean to imply that you and I should be similar, or should understand each other's perspectives...it was just an interesting discussion for me, and interesting for me to explore my own thoughts on the matter.

Differences are fine in My book.

I hope this means we can still have mutual respect for each other. You and I have often disagreed, and of course we live our lives in different ways and have different things that are important to us. But I have respect for you, and I hope I am worthy of the same from you.

 

[mdavid_1964]

There Is No Right Or Wrong

Red you will find submissive women who like soft better than hard, and others who like hard better than soft. Like any other type of relationship there is a vast world of diversity in what attracts each of us to the other. Sometimes it
changes like the blowing of the wind, and other times it's as steady as the swiftest of current in the river of life.

Be yourself, choose whatever direction your compass points, and communicate constantly with your sub so she understands what direction you are taking, and why she should take that journey with you.

If both of you are new to this lifestyle then takes things slowly at first and discover what works best for both of you.

Good luck.

David

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think I would have to trust that she was being honest with me, and I'd have to respect her as well. Because if I did it out of something other than respect, then it would become something actually cruel and demeaning.

Even if she genuinely gained pleasure/satisfaction from being treated this way? I know I have my moments when I really don't want my needs to be respected

Of course, that in itself is a need/want but I'm going to let it slide

Never say never hon

 

[s_red830]

Even if she genuinely gained pleasure/satisfaction from being treated this way? I know I have my moments when I really don't want my needs to be respected

Of course, that in itself is a need/want but I'm going to let it slide

Never say never hon

I can see what you're saying, and I don't mind treating people as such. But if in reality I had no respect for her... that wouldn't be beneficial to either of us, I don't think. It would make me miserable that I was having sex with someone I didn't like, and it would probably make her miserable because if I didn't respect her, I don't know if I could respect her hard limits, needs, desires, etc.

Like... I could make someone my slave, but I'd have to respect her and her choices in my heart, even though I wouldn't act like it all of the time.

Does that make any sense?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I can see what you're saying, and I don't mind treating people as such. But if in reality I had no respect for her... that wouldn't be beneficial to either of us, I don't think. It would make me miserable that I was having sex with someone I didn't like, and it would probably make her miserable because if I didn't respect her, I don't know if I could respect her hard limits, needs, desires, etc.

Like... I could make someone my slave, but I'd have to respect her and her choices in my heart, even though I wouldn't act like it all of the time.

Does that make any sense?

Yes it does and I agree with you in that, at whatever level, you need to be genuinely attracted to your partner in order to enjoy sex. I do wonder though, just how far I could end up going down the D/s road with a man that I truly loved. I also wonder whether, at some point on the journey, I could go too far for his personal taste and at some point the respect could be lost. Am I rambling now?

 

[s_red830]

Yes it does and I agree with you in that, at whatever level, you need to be genuinely attracted to your partner in order to enjoy sex. I do wonder though, just how far I could end up going down the D/s road with a man that I truly loved. I also wonder whether, at some point on the journey, I could go too far for his personal taste and at some point the respect could be lost. Am I rambling now?

No, I think you make sense. I think that I could love someone truly down the D/s road because there is nothing I find more attractive than a vulnerable, sweet submissive. And I'd hope that that person could love me, because I'd definitely spend a lot of time making sure I was the best Domm I could be.

I think if you go beyond the point where his "personal taste" lies and he loses respect for you, then it's not really meant to be.

~Red.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

No, I think you make sense. I think that I could love someone truly down the D/s road because there is nothing I find more attractive than a vulnerable, sweet submissive. And I'd hope that that person could love me, because I'd definitely spend a lot of time making sure I was the best Domm I could be.

I think if you go beyond the point where his "personal taste" lies and he loses respect for you, then it's not really meant to be.

~Red.

I agree once again and I've decided to quit thinking too much.

Does me more harm than good

 

[s_red830]

I agree once again and I've decided to quit thinking too much.

Does me more harm than good

OOOOH no, don't stop thinking! that's one of the most beautiful things about life! sometimes with things like that, what you need to do is keep thinking. it's like working a hole through a ball of yarn. if you work hard enough, eventually you come out the other side!

...not that many sane people would work a hole through a ball of yarn, but hey, I speak for myself.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

...not that many sane people would work a hole through a ball of yarn, but hey, I speak for myself.

I feel so much better about agreeing with you now

 

[s_red830]

I feel so much better about agreeing with you now

nanadance!!!!

okay, this thread has been officially derailed, and I officially don't care. Feel free to rerail it, though, if you have something interesting to say.

~Red.