Pink Orchid: Story Event for Women-Centric Erotica - Official Support Thread

[SisterJezabel]

read the story 'Toxic' and while descriptive and well written in its descriptions, it seemed a poor caricature of feminist views.

I’m wondering what you would have seen as being more accurate?

I only speak from years of experience, from studies in gender politics, from working in a women's shelter and from personal experiences of misogyny and toxic masculinity.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

My problem with the feminist attitude is that men must change in order for women to be their equals. So, men hold the power of changing or not. I prefer stronger women who don't need men to change in order for the woman to be their equal!

Women *are* the equals of men - that shouldn't be controversial. Do men treat women as their equals? Often they act more like their girlfriends are their property, like Byron in this story. Or as Sister J put it at the end of her own story:

"I can't tell men how to behave, just as they can't direct me, but I hope in this book I've been able to show how women would like them to be. We aren't chasing unicorns; we just want decent human beings to tell other men when their behaviour is detrimental to equality."

I haven't read the comments yet. My only criticism would be the pacing - the first page covered most types of crap male behaviour, a bit of an infodump of crap experience, then followed by the lovely Lou, Mel, Ben and all being lovely for the remaining 7 pages, with obligatory Sad Backstory for Ben. I'd like to have seen a bit more of Ben's dad being ornery and using the wrong words but being a good man where it counts, and Ben being a bit panicky and grumpy, but there's a limit to what you can fit in.

Candace was very realistic - possibly a bit fast getting to the point of a feminist media source at the end, but it's difficult getting this many themes into a novella. Basically there's a whole novel in this story, which might let some of the characters balance better. Not that I'm any kind of expert on that, so this suggestion is worth exactly what you've paid for it!

 

[Omenainen]

My problem with the feminist attitude is that men must change in order for women to be their equals. So, men hold the power of changing or not. I prefer stronger women who don't need men to change in order for the woman to be their equal!

Why do you think what you prefer is relevant?

 

[Omenainen]

Well, go read and comment on mine, for christ sake.

I definitely will, as soon as I get there I'm reading roughly in the order of publishing.
I just made a list and at the moment I have 39 event stories entries. I have thus far read 29 of them, amounting to 323 800 words, and still have 145 100 words before your story. I haven't read this much smut in such a short time ever before, I think.

Oh, and I have continued commenting. I can't seem to help myself. I have tried to be more positive about it though. Maybe I'll include a disclaimer in next year's event announcement. "I will read your entry and I will tell you what I think"

And if any of you want to discuss your story with me, just send me a PM, I will remember them for a little while more at least.

 

[stickygirl]

Clearly your experience of living as a woman in a patriarchal society has taught you well.

And yes, the suggestion that men do anything apart from telling women (or young girls) how to act or what to do has been suggested to me before. I know, I can see how shocked you are.

Joyce Stevens’s words from 1975 are still pertinent today:

“Because women's work is never done and is underpaid or unpaid or boring or repetitious
and we're the first to get the sack
and what we look like is more important than what we do
and if we get raped it's our fault
and if we get bashed we must have provoked it
and if we raise our voices we're nagging bitches
and if we enjoy sex we're nymphos
and if we don't we're frigid
and if we love women it's because we can't get a 'real' man
and if we ask our doctor too many questions we're neurotic and/or pushy
and if we expect community care for children we're selfish
and if we stand up for our rights we're aggressive and 'unfeminine'
and if we don't we're typical weak females
and if we want to get married we're out to trap a man
and if we don't we're unnatural
and because we still can't get an adequate safe contraceptive but men can walk on the moon
and if we can't cope or don't want a pregnancy we're made to feel guilty about abortion
and ….. for lots and lots of other reasons we are part of the women's liberation movement”

Since the topic is being aired, I've been watching a UK comedy series called Taskmaster in which celebs are given silly tasks to complete. In this 2.30 min clip, the group have to work out they need to hop 100 times from the clues. At the end of it, the chair points out the plight of women - in this case being ignored and talked over. It is my every day.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Well, that’s what I get for being the last one in.

I definitely will, as soon as I get there I'm reading roughly in the order of publishing.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I’m wondering what you would have seen as being more accurate?

I only speak from years of experience, from studies in gender politics, from working in a women's shelter and from personal experiences of misogyny and toxic masculinity.

IMO, you're viewing men through stained glasses. I speak from YEARS of experience having been married to a feminist with my FIRST wife. (Read on for my response to the next.)

Women *are* the equals of men - that shouldn't be controversial. Do men treat women as their equals? Often they act more like their girlfriends are their property, like Byron in this story. Or as Sister J put it at the end of her own story:

"I can't tell men how to behave, just as they can't direct me, but I hope in this book I've been able to show how women would like them to be. We aren't chasing unicorns; we just want decent human beings to tell other men when their behaviour is detrimental to equality."

...

Men don't treat other MEN as their equals! THAT is MY point!

Men treat each other (and women) as competitors! The term 'Alpha-male' came about for a reason. And even men who are not alpha-males try to emulate that behavior which succeeds.

You're either the football quarterback, leading the team to victory, or you're a follower, water-boy, or bench sitter watching the game. None of them are equals, regardless of their sex. And men compete in this environment EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIFE, starting with their earliest interactions with other boys.

What you might perceive as "respect" between two alpha-males is a fraud. It's a precarious balance while they look for a weakness to exploit in the other. People who fail to recognize these things become the victims and start wars (current situation in Europe is a prime example).

But it seems feminists refuse to recognize that reality, insisting SOMEONE needs to fix their behavior.


Women ARE the equals to men and compete in the same arena as men. IMO, feminists view the alpha-women as "sluts" and "whores" who use their sex to their own advantage. You really should read my other comments ref my current wife, but O has already heard those comments from me.
****
Me: "Here, let me explain how I opened that."
Wife: "T.M.I. I like my way better. It's easier."
Me: "You mean to hand it to me to do it for you."
Wife: "You're learning!"

*****
Jan casually reached to her neck and pulled the chains of her necklace together. I couldn’t help but notice as she dangled the heart-shaped pointer and seemed to absentmindedly swing it a little. She caught my eyes glancing down as she did it and she smiled.
“Are you getting hard now?” she asked in a sultry voice.
“You’re doing that deliberately, aren’t you?” I said.
“Of course! I want ALL of you focused on me.”
“Yes, I’m getting hard,” I said as I reached down to adjust myself. “Satisfied?”
****

Now let's hear what YOU call the strong, confident woman I deal with every day. (And Yes, O, although my "A Different Proposition' is fiction and should have been in Satire, I DID choose to marry just such a woman, and I still call her a 'bitch', getting the response "But I'm YOUR bitch!".)

 

[MelissaBaby]

IMO, you're viewing men through stained glasses. I speak from YEARS of experience having been married to a feminist with my FIRST wife. (Read on for my response to the next.)

Men don't treat other MEN as their equals! THAT is MY point!

Men treat each other (and women) as competitors! The term 'Alpha-male' came about for a reason. And even men who are not alpha-males try to emulate that behavior which succeeds.

You're either the football quarterback, leading the team to victory, or you're a follower, water-boy, or bench sitter watching the game. None of them are equals, regardless of their sex. And men compete in this environment EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIFE, starting with their earliest interactions with other boys.

What you might perceive as "respect" between two alpha-males is a fraud. It's a precarious balance while they look for a weakness to exploit in the other. People who fail to recognize these things become the victims and start wars (current situation in Europe is a prime example).

But it seems feminists refuse to recognize that reality, insisting SOMEONE needs to fix their behavior.


Women ARE the equals to men and compete in the same arena as men. IMO, feminists view the alpha-women as "sluts" and "whores" who use their sex to their own advantage. You really should read my other comments ref my current wife, but O has already heard those comments from me.
****
Me: "Here, let me explain how I opened that."
Wife: "T.M.I. I like my way better. It's easier."
Me: "You mean to hand it to me to do it for you."
Wife: "You're learning!"

*****
Jan casually reached to her neck and pulled the chains of her necklace together. I couldn’t help but notice as she dangled the heart-shaped pointer and seemed to absentmindedly swing it a little. She caught my eyes glancing down as she did it and she smiled.
“Are you getting hard now?” she asked in a sultry voice.
“You’re doing that deliberately, aren’t you?” I said.
“Of course! I want ALL of you focused on me.”
“Yes, I’m getting hard,” I said as I reached down to adjust myself. “Satisfied?”
****

Now let's hear what YOU call the strong, confident woman I deal with every day. (And Yes, O, although my "A Different Proposition' is fiction and should have been in Satire, I DID choose to marry just such a woman, and I still call her a 'bitch', getting the response "But I'm YOUR bitch!".)

You really should stop digging the hole deeper. Women don't need you telling us what we think.

Jesus H. Christ, I'm glad I wrote a lesbian story for this event.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Since the topic is being aired, I've been watching a UK comedy series called Taskmaster in which celebs are given silly tasks to complete. In this 2.30 min clip, the group have to work out they need to hop 100 times from the clues. At the end of it, the chair points out the plight of women - in this case being ignored and talked over. It is my every day.

There was a short-lived BBC2 show called "Crisis Command" where a small group of guests are asked to role-play as government ministers in charge during a crisis, with the aid of RL expert advisors.

This episode is a fantastic example of the Guy Who Doesn't Listen:

Even at the end of the episode, after things have gone to hell in no small part due to his terrible decision-making and inability to listen to advice, while the other two players are contemplating all the things they got wrong, he's musing about how he might make a good politician because he's "good at talking to people".

It reminds me of a guy I used to work for, who thought his gut instinct in an area well outside his expertise was worth more than my decade of experience in that area...

 

[Bramblethorn]

IMO, you're viewing men through stained glasses. I speak from YEARS of experience having been married to a feminist with my FIRST wife. (Read on for my response to the next.)

Men don't treat other MEN as their equals! THAT is MY point!

Men treat each other (and women) as competitors! The term 'Alpha-male' came about for a reason.

Specifically, it came about because one researcher badly misunderstood the social dynamics of wolf packs and a bunch of pop-psychology "gurus" then tried to analyse human behaviour based on that misunderstanding of wolf behaviour.

Meanwhile, after recognising his mistake, poor David Mech has spent the rest of his career trying to debunk the myth he started. But people love their Just So stories better than they love a truth that doesn't support their preferred position.

And even men who are not alpha-males try to emulate that behavior which succeeds.

I'm not the first to observe this, but: it's a weird thing how often the "anti-feminist" position in these kinds of discussions ends up being an anti-male position, arguing that guys are all just incurable testosterone poisoning cases hardwired for aggression, that male behaviour is what it is and it'll never change.

Me, on the other hand - I believe men are thinking beings, possessed of free will, who are capable of better. It's no great leap of faith because I know plenty of men who do do better.

You're either the football quarterback, leading the team to victory, or you're a follower, water-boy, or bench sitter watching the game. None of them are equals, regardless of their sex. And men compete in this environment EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIFE, starting with their earliest interactions with other boys.

Boys often are socialised towards that kind of mindset, sure. But it's not destiny. There are other paths, and plenty of men take them.

What you might perceive as "respect" between two alpha-males is a fraud. It's a precarious balance while they look for a weakness to exploit in the other. People who fail to recognize these things become the victims and start wars (current situation in Europe is a prime example).

With all due respect, I think this says more about your own mindset than about the rest of the male population.

And, no, wars are not started by the victims. Wars are started by the people who make a choice to go to war.

But it seems feminists refuse to recognize that reality, insisting SOMEONE needs to fix their behavior.

Because it's not a "reality", it's an excuse. It deserves about as much respect as the guy who tells his wife "I'm just incapable of cooking or doing housework, guess you better do it all, you're so much better at that".

 

[Lifestyle66]

Specifically, it came about because one researcher badly misunderstood the social dynamics of wolf packs and a bunch of pop-psychology "gurus" then tried to analyse human behaviour based on that misunderstanding of wolf behaviour.

Meanwhile, after recognising his mistake, poor David Mech has spent the rest of his career trying to debunk the myth he started. But people love their Just So stories better than they love a truth that doesn't support their preferred position.



I'm not the first to observe this, but: it's a weird thing how often the "anti-feminist" position in these kinds of discussions ends up being an anti-male position, arguing that guys are all just incurable testosterone poisoning cases hardwired for aggression, that male behaviour is what it is and it'll never change.

Me, on the other hand - I believe men are thinking beings, possessed of free will, who are capable of better. It's no great leap of faith because I know plenty of men who do do better.



Boys often are socialised towards that kind of mindset, sure. But it's not destiny. There are other paths, and plenty of men take them.



With all due respect, I think this says more about your own mindset than about the rest of the male population.

And, no, wars are not started by the victims. Wars are started by the people who make a choice to go to war.



Because it's not a "reality", it's an excuse. It deserves about as much respect as the guy who tells his wife "I'm just incapable of cooking or doing housework, guess you better do it all, you're so much better at that".

In my experience over decades, I've found "experts" are those who claim their expertise in a certain field based on their studies in the field. And in my experience those experts usually lack a broader perspective and fail to incorporate many other factors in their analysis and fall into the trap of loving "their Just So stories better than they love a truth that doesn't support their preferred position."

If you are a dedicated researcher in this area of male/female/hormone-rage studies (male or female researcher), try doing a real-world experiment on yourself. Go to a medical spa doctor and take slow-release testosterone hormone treatment. Then try documenting your own mood changes over the next three months. You might need to ask someone else close to you to document the changes, since you will see them as the normal right way to behave.

If you are a male, you will find your "need" for sex to become stronger, AND you will find your interactions with others to be more aggressive and you will become angry more quickly. If you are a female, you will find your libedo increase, and you will feel the "need" for sex to be stronger.

This is reality. For men and women, this is a medical condition. And even in the U.S. with strict FDA rules of drug use, you CAN legally get such hormone treatments to see for yourself what happens. Just be sure to document those changes within yourself and look back at the documents after the hormones wear off (three months for women and six months for men).

 

[Omenainen]

Lifestyle66: first of all, I want to say that I appreciate you making a honest effort in writing a story for my event and being open for discussion. I think that is a very good approach to entering events, and I do appreciate everyone who entered mine.

But I have trouble reaching into her mind to describe from my first person POV WHY she likes doing it. My wife doesn't really know why she likes to flirt, she just does.

Are there any women reading this who might tell me WHY my wife or other women enjoy flirting to make men get erections, with no intention of following through with sex?

So, you want other women to explain your own wife to you...

IMO, you're viewing men through stained glasses. I speak from YEARS of experience having been married to a feminist with my FIRST wife. (Read on for my response to the next.)

...and then you turn around and explain to SisterJezabel, a complete stranger, what she thinks? Based on "I was once married to a woman?" Are you listening to yourself?

Men don't treat other MEN as their equals! THAT is MY point!

Men treat each other (and women) as competitors! The term 'Alpha-male' came about for a reason. And even men who are not alpha-males try to emulate that behavior which succeeds.

You're either the football quarterback, leading the team to victory, or you're a follower, water-boy, or bench sitter watching the game. None of them are equals, regardless of their sex. And men compete in this environment EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIFE, starting with their earliest interactions with other boys.

What you might perceive as "respect" between two alpha-males is a fraud. It's a precarious balance while they look for a weakness to exploit in the other. People who fail to recognize these things become the victims and start wars (current situation in Europe is a prime example).

But it seems feminists refuse to recognize that reality, insisting SOMEONE needs to fix their behavior.


****

Now let's hear what YOU call the strong, confident woman I deal with every day. (And Yes, O, although my "A Different Proposition' is fiction and should have been in Satire, I DID choose to marry just such a woman, and I still call her a 'bitch', getting the response "But I'm YOUR bitch!".)

You are not all men and you don't get to speak for all men. And I don't give a crap about your wife. Contrary to what you seem to believe, your view of the world is just that, yours, and it holds no general interest. This thread is a good place to have discussion about for example female empowerment, but just recounting your experiences over and over is not productive.

How does one disagree with a woman without being accused of mansplaining?

By listening what they actually say and using counterarguments that are based on something more constructive than "my testicles say so".

 

[stickygirl]

In my experience over decades, I've found "experts" are those who claim their expertise in a certain field based on their studies in the field. And in my experience those experts usually lack a broader perspective and fail to incorporate many other factors in their analysis and fall into the trap of loving "their Just So stories better than they love a truth that doesn't support their preferred position."

If you are a dedicated researcher in this area of male/female/hormone-rage studies (male or female researcher), try doing a real-world experiment on yourself. Go to a medical spa doctor and take slow-release testerone hormone treatment. Then try documenting your own mood changes over the next three months. You might need to ask someone else close to you to document the changes, since you will see them as the normal right way to behave.

If you are a male, you will find your "need" for sex to become stronger, AND you will find your interactions with others to be more aggressive and you will become angry more quickly. If you are a female, you will find your libedo increase, and you will feel the "need" for sex to be stronger.

This is reality. For men and women, this is a medical condition. And even in the U.S. with strict FDA rules of drug use, you CAN legally get such hormone treatments to see for yourself what happens. Just be sure to document those changes within yourself and look back at the documents after the hormones wear off (three months for women and six months for men).

Why the massive deflection and where tf did this ^^ nonsense come from? Your experience would be the last I'd trust particularly when you cite BS like this with nothing to back it up.

That hole sure looks deep from up here. Are we having fun yet?

So long as men define women as all the things they are not they fail to get off the blocks.

 

[Omenainen]

I'm sad I missed this (there's zero chance of my getting something written today, even if it could get posted)

No worries! The important think is to write good smut, and that can be done all year round. Also, I'll probably host this again next year.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Lifestyle66: first of all, I want to say that I appreciate you making a honest effort in writing a story for my event and being open for discussion. I think that is a very good approach to entering events, and I do appreciate everyone who entered mine.

So, you want other women to explain your own wife to you...

...and then you turn around and explain to SisterJezabel, a complete stranger, what she thinks? Based on "I was once married to a woman?" Are you listening to yourself?

You are not all men and you don't get to speak for all men. And I don't give a crap about your wife. Contrary to what you seem to believe, your view of the world is just that, yours, and it holds no general interest. This thread is a good place to have discussion about for example female empowerment, but just recounting your experiences over and over is not productive.

By listening what they actually say and using counterarguments that are based on something more constructive than "my testicles say so".

"Based on MY experience" is exactly what everyone else is doing here, too, including SisterJezabel who said "based on years of study and experience" (which is why I said it that way.) And I did begin that with "IMO" because it is just an opinion.

And as I explained in my last comment about testosterone therapy, all of this IS due to "my testicles say so". It's reality and a medical condition, which some might now say is B.S.!

 

[Lifestyle66]

Wow, you really don't think very much of men. I mean, you don't think much of women either, but you really hate men.

I don't hate men, and I don't hate women, either. I try to recognize people for who they are: each with unique life experiences and medical conditions.

I (and my current wife) just don't believe others must change in order for us to enjoy life.

"We all make choices. And I chose to be happy." is another of my wife's favorite sayings. To paraphrase: "If you don't like the way your life is going, make different choices, and take control of your own destiny."

 

[MelissaBaby]

It would be great if this thread could be about celebrating this very cool event that O put together, and the authors, of all genders, who contributed, instead of yet another platform for airing male grievances.

 

[Lifestyle66]

It would be great if this thread could be about celebrating this very cool event that O put together, and the authors, of all genders, who contributed, instead of yet another platform for airing male grievances.

This part of the thread came about from my critique of 'Toxic'.

I found it to be a male-bashing caricature, and I was accused of mansplaining in so many ways.

One thing in that story I found to be sex-positive and empowering was near the end, when the main female character deleted the last text message from her former lover. THAT was making the better choice and taking control of her own destiny! But it didn't require her former lover to change, it required HER to change.

 

[NotWise]

I definitely will, as soon as I get there I'm reading roughly in the order of publishing.
I just made a list and at the moment I have 39 event stories entries. I have thus far read 29 of them, amounting to 323 800 words, and still have 145 100 words before your story. I haven't read this much smut in such a short time ever before, I think.

Oh, and I have continued commenting. I can't seem to help myself. I have tried to be more positive about it though. Maybe I'll include a disclaimer in next year's event announcement. "I will read your entry and I will tell you what I think"

And if any of you want to discuss your story with me, just send me a PM, I will remember them for a little while more at least.

Thanks for the huge effort, O. The event was totally worth it, and the discussion is interesting at the very least.

The list might eventually pass forty stories.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Inspired by 4am insomnia and various discussions, I've just submitted under the wire a 750-word piece, also tagged Pink Orchid.

I put it in non-erotic as it would otherwise be very mediocre smut!

I doubt there's any point in mentioning differing experiences to our expert on all men, but I know a fair few people who have taken progesterone (a precursor of testosterone which women have in varying amounts at different stages of their cycles) and/or testosterone, including myself, and yes, it does generally increase libido, but it doesn't turn the person into a raging arsehole unless they were one already.

It's kinda sad, thinking that some men are so desperate to be competitive they don't notice when no-one is actually competing with them.

 

[yowser]

39 stories and counting, my word. A lot of range already, most intriguing what the Pink Orchid garden will ultimately reveal.

Thank you O.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Inspired by 4am insomnia and various discussions, I've just submitted under the wire a 750-word piece, also tagged Pink Orchid.

I put it in non-erotic as it would otherwise be very mediocre smut!

I doubt there's any point in mentioning differing experiences to our expert on all men, but I know a fair few people who have taken progesterone (a precursor of testosterone which women have in varying amounts at different stages of their cycles) and/or testosterone, including myself, and yes, it does generally increase libido, but it doesn't turn the person into a raging arsehole unless they were one already.

It's kinda sad, thinking that some men are so desperate to be competitive they don't notice when no-one is actually competing with them.

My experience with the testosterone was not that it turns one into a raging asshole (you are correct, unless they already are), it's more a more subtle increase in aggressiveness and quick-to-anger that I notice.

With a blood test using the normal testosterone range between 300-to-900, a male at 600 taking the testosterone treatment anyway will find their mood does change. And it's not necessarily a desirable change.

But it was a very eye-opening experience (researching type geek that I am.)

 

[SimonDoom]

"Based on MY experience" is exactly what everyone else is doing here, too, including SisterJezabel who said "based on years of study and experience" (which is why I said it that way.) And I did begin that with "IMO" because it is just an opinion.

And as I explained in my last comment about testosterone therapy, all of this IS due to "my testicles say so". It's reality and a medical condition, which some might now say is B.S.!

It's true we're all speaking from our experiences and backgrounds, but you are going somewhat further than that in using your experience as a basis for making sweeping, universal statements about men and women. My experience is that sweeping, universal statements about men and women are almost always wrong, even if they may be accurate descriptions, to some degree, of mean differences between the sexes.

I do not at all believe what you said about men all fighting one another and being unable to have relationships based on cooperation and nurturing. That sounds totally wrong to me. Men are complex, are not always competing with one another to be alphas, and exhibit a wide variety of kinds of behavior. Success can take many forms and many personality types. I would regard someone who is an outstanding university professor as someone who is successful, but that person is not necessarily an "alpha," nor necessarily required "alpha" traits to achieve his success.

Both men AND women, can, in my experience, "splain" to one another, and some of the best splainers I know are women. It is not necessarily mansplaining for a man to disagree with a woman. But some types of male behavior are true: men talking over women, for example. I see this all the time. It may due, in some part, to a greater degree of innate male aggressiveness, but it can be unlearned and moderated, as well.

 

[Lifestyle66]

It's true we're all speaking from our experiences and backgrounds, but you are going somewhat further than that in using your experience as a basis for making sweeping, universal statements about men and women. My experience is that sweeping, universal statements about men and women are almost always wrong, even if they may be accurate descriptions, to some degree, of mean differences between the sexes.

I do not at all believe what you said about men all fighting one another and being unable to have relationships based on cooperation and nurturing. That sounds totally wrong to me. Men are complex, are not always competing with one another to be alphas, and exhibit a wide variety of kinds of behavior. Success can take many forms and many personality types. I would regard someone who is an outstanding university professor as someone who is successful, but that person is not necessarily an "alpha," nor necessarily required "alpha" traits to achieve his success.

Both men AND women, can, in my experience, "splain" to one another, and some of the best splainers I know are women. It is not necessarily mansplaining for a man to disagree with a woman. But some types of male behavior are true: men talking over women, for example. I see this all the time. It may due, in some part, to a greater degree of innate male aggressiveness, but it can be unlearned and moderated, as well.

But that was my original criticism of the 'Toxic' story which started this tangent: All men in the story except for the final one she selected were toxic males. (Sweeping characterizations of males in general.)

I try to condition my responses as "In my experience" to provide anecdotal stories for consideration, and I'm accused of mansplaining.

So, AGAIN, in my experience and my opinion, those who shout and resort to name-calling seem to have closed minds and fail to even try to understand where the conflicts originate and how they might resolve conflict with less hostility. That generalization of the alpha-male traits was bordering on the political in the current global affairs, and I was alluding to that as: "Who didn't see this coming? Ah, those who ignore such traits."

I agree with your earlier comment that O has a great challenge going here. This provides a good opportunity for thoughtful reflection, as I have even learned to change my own story to address O's beta-reading critique. (I can learn.)

As for the men talking over females, I experience the opposite with my alpha-female wife talking over me. Soooo.... you see it all the time by men? Generalizing? We all do it... again generalizing.

 

[Lifestyle66]

If you like caricatures of relationships, try reading 'A Different Proposition - 750 Words' for my version of an alpha-female.
https://literotica.com/s/a-different-proposition-750-words