Premises, premises, always premises.

OK....have read the whole thread and still don't understand what the OP were trying to say.

:confused:

I am making posts how I would say in real life. Behind the posts is the real me, old boring plain me! (as a person first and furthermore, submissive second, always)

Who else it could be?

Caz :rose:
 
Well one is entitled to an opinion and some express it to such an extent that others are drawn to it, inspired by it even. Then there those who "shout" so loudly that no one hears them.

As for "unintended consequences" only a fool reads between the lines and takes that as gospel truth.

The boards are a place to have fun...meet and chat with like minded people and for some of us actually connect and well who knows from there...Nirvana perhaps. If you scan the posts looking for the "true" anyone you are a sad soul indeed. Oh and by "you" I mean anyone of course.




Ishmael said:
A sub can read can't they?

I do quite understand your post. And I agree to an extent. But you're only pissing off the very people you're seeking. I would remind you that all actions have unintended consequences.

Any true Dom(es) reading through those threads would make a check list and go, "No, no, nope not that one. etc."

In effect you end up baiting the very people you're trying to winnow from the chaff.

Ishmael
 
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And it seemed to start as such a nice conversation about how we present ourselves on the boards.

Sorry Cutiemouse if you felt I was speaking for you, I was just expressing that I could relate to how you felt. I will avoid referring to you in the future.
Sorry if this comes off a bitchy I was trying to have a legitimate conversation with someone, not a Dom/sub pissing contest and I would never try to speak for anyone else on these boards.
 
northwoods_sub wrote:

>It is a way of sizing up the abilities of the Dom. A better question to ask is >that if the Dom(mes) are willing to put up with that kind of behaviour and >bend to it are they really as Dominant as they say they are?

That is a general truism for everything. Any time someone says, "I am very X" - it's a fairly safe bet they're not as 'X' as they're claiming to be, even more true in a virtual text medium. Feh, I'm not at all convinced that someone's of a particular gender /just because/ they say they are. For example, I could be what I claim to be; I could just as easily be a 25 yo boy working in a pizza parlor or a 90 yo crusty broad propped in a wheelchair in a nursing home or a sockpuppet of a regular poster. Feh, I may not even be human at all - I could be a clever 'bot. All anyone can be sure of in a strictly virtual medium is that pixels on their screen are self-labeled.

The OP started this thread with the false premise that sub = X, where my preliminary research seems to indicate that like Xtianity or most everything else, "sub" is defined however the hell the person saying it wants it to be defined (ergo, mostly meaningless).

What never fails to amuse and amaze is how bent folks allow themselves to get over pixels on a screen, something they have absolute total control over.

<shrug>
Seems a pointless waste of energy to get so exercised over a bunch of pixels, but it's their time and energy to choose how it's expended.
 
Sharon_ said:
northwoods_sub wrote:

>It is a way of sizing up the abilities of the Dom. A better question to ask is >that if the Dom(mes) are willing to put up with that kind of behaviour and >bend to it are they really as Dominant as they say they are?

That is a general truism for everything. Any time someone says, "I am very X" - it's a fairly safe bet they're not as 'X' as they're claiming to be, even more true in a virtual text medium. Feh, I'm not at all convinced that someone's of a particular gender /just because/ they say they are. For example, I could be what I claim to be; I could just as easily be a 25 yo boy working in a pizza parlor or a 90 yo crusty broad propped in a wheelchair in a nursing home or a sockpuppet of a regular poster. Feh, I may not even be human at all - I could be a clever 'bot. All anyone can be sure of in a strictly virtual medium is that pixels on their screen are self-labeled.

The OP started this thread with the false premise that sub = X, where my preliminary research seems to indicate that like Xtianity or most everything else, "sub" is defined however the hell the person saying it wants it to be defined (ergo, mostly meaningless).

What never fails to amuse and amaze is how bent folks allow themselves to get over pixels on a screen, something they have absolute total control over.

<shrug>
Seems a pointless waste of energy to get so exercised over a bunch of pixels, but it's their time and energy to choose how it's expended.


Actually that was my point, although I could have been a little clearer about it.

X (Y and/or Z)self describes itself as a sub, but behaves in a manner inconsistent with the self proclaimed image.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael wrote:

[definitions are fluid]
>Actually that was my point, although I could have been a little clearer about >it.

<grin>
....but that's always the problem with subtlety, it has to be target specific, and the target has to be accurately assessed to minimize the risk of it sailing over their heads. 'Twas clear as a bell to me; my assumption was that you intended it that way - clear to some, unclear to others.

>X (Y and/or Z)self describes itself as a sub, but behaves in a manner >inconsistent with the self proclaimed image.

<nods>
But that's assuming X, Y and Z are acting in a way that contradicts how /they/ define it (or that your definition is the correct one). It's like ragging on a fat Christian who is in turn ragging on a Christian smoker - they're never going to "get it" because they don't define 'defiling the temple' in a way that includes their own defilement.
 
I am submissive to one man and one man only. When I speak of my Dom I speak of him with the respect he deserves and has earned. Every other Dom on this board will be treated as my equal as will every sub, switch and everyone in between.

I don't give a rat's ass if anyone on this board thinks I am acting submissive enough, the only opinion that matters is whether my Dom thinks I am acting appropriately. If I am not, he is watching when he wants to and will deal with me as he sees fit.
 
ecstaticsub said:
I am submissive to one man and one man only. When I speak of my Dom I speak of him with the respect he deserves and has earned. Every other Dom on this board will be treated as my equal as will every sub, switch and everyone in between.

I don't give a rat's ass if anyone on this board thinks I am acting submissive enough, the only opinion that matters is whether my Dom thinks I am acting appropriately. If I am not, he is watching when he wants to and will deal with me as he sees fit.
*applauds*
 
ecstaticsub said:
I am submissive to one man and one man only. When I speak of my Dom I speak of him with the respect he deserves and has earned. Every other Dom on this board will be treated as my equal as will every sub, switch and everyone in between.

I don't give a rat's ass if anyone on this board thinks I am acting submissive enough, the only opinion that matters is whether my Dom thinks I am acting appropriately. If I am not, he is watching when he wants to and will deal with me as he sees fit.

My thoughts exactly! Well said! :rose:


Oh and Ishmeal you might want to take a gander at the "Welcome To The BDSM Talk Forum " Sticky at the top of the page. In it you will find this quote...

We are not a BDSM chat room, nor do we encourage posting 'in role' here. Our aim, as explained above, is to discuss BDSM etc., as an interest or lifestyle, not play it out on the forum. Online sexual role playing is also not appropriate for this forum, but can be found Here

We do not encourage off topic material (excessive flirting or personal conversation that interrupts serious topics) in BDSM Talk threads. Light conversation, flirting, off topic type threads, and funtimes are appreciated and to be had in the BDSM Cafe . Flame wars are also discouraged. As in any type discussion where people feel passionately about a topic, there will be times where discussion becomes heated, often highly emotional. Please try to remember during those moments that just as you might not share the same view as another, they too have just as much right to not share yours. The aim is to respect we are all different and individual, and hopefuly through sharing openly and honestly we can begin to better understand the other, not try and bend them to our own personal view. The alternative taken by some of agreeing with everyone, or avoiding discussion, usually does not work effectively for long, and does restrict or end discussion.

Lots more information in that thread you might enjoy too. :)
 
Ishmael said:
Actually that was my point, although I could have been a little clearer about it.

X (Y and/or Z)self describes itself as a sub, but behaves in a manner inconsistent with the self proclaimed image.

Ishmael

Being inconsistent with someone else's assumed "self-proclaimed definition" of me is better than fine. It's encouraged.

As to alienating certain people by the nature alone of not conforming to their definitions, that's absolutely fine, and encouraged also.
 
Ishmael said:
So a sub hooks up with someone. Dom or not, and is told to do something by that person and the first word is, "No."

I'm not speaking of anything sexual, or dangerous. A small task of little consequence.

What can one take away from that behavior?

Ishmael
I think everyone have the right to say "NO". Doesn't matter if it's sub or not really. What matters to me is what i am told to do? Even small tasks can be hard to do at times.

Give us an exapmle what you call a small task? I will answear you better then :)
 
catalina_francisco said:
LOL, and I thought I was the only one who thought this way! :eek:

Catalina :catroar:

Honestly, if I get with a guy and he's a pussy and a yes-man on the first date rather than just very *attentive* - if he's refined his list of fetishes and his "submissive neeeeeds" list and just want to negotiate that all date long, and if he strikes me as incapable of saying no rather than *disinterested* in saying no, I'll move along just as fast as the BS "you can't vanquish me" brigade.

As for just standing and watching people, I don't expect my slave to take the high road every time someone who fancies him/her/itself Dominant pisses him off, in fact I rather LIKE it if he doesn't, because my slave is a reasonable man, it's what I like about him. Chances are if something's pissing him off it's usually stupid and deserves whatever reaction it gets.

If H greeted the rest of the universe with "I'm just a stupid loser" he'd be a literal mess. That's where I come in, he can be like that with me and get it out of his system. Likewise, I can't beat up the rest of the world like that and get anywhere, so he's uniquely suited.

Our slavery is private (mostly) symbiotic, and has approximately jack shit to do with how I'd expect him to be towards anyone other than me if I had him join me on lit.

For that matter, I think now that I'm not making a living with how I present self, if one were to meet me at a scene event, they might have no idea how to place me on the continuum till they saw me interacting with my husband. I like it like that. I don't need to come across as pompous ass du jour lest someone mis-file me. I personally resent and laugh at people who insist on displaying their "Dominant (barf)" behavior all over the place.

It's not something I keep in the bedroom, but it IS called "a private life" for a REASON. And it should be that way.
 
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I'm still not sure what the fuck is going on here.

Ishmael, why are you concerning yourself with behavior of sub X, Y or Z? Are they your submissive? Does their supposed lack of subby behavior cause you to lose sleep at night?

Quite honestly, I don't see what the fuss is about. Ignore him and he'll go away.
 
As someone who fundamentally walks in the world as a Dominant with one personally chosen exception I am so freaking glad that if someone I don't know says I'm not submissive he is merely stating the obvious and I do not care. It takes a lot of the angst out of this endeavor. I have one person other than myself to please and I'm doing it fine.
 
Chris_Xavier said:
I'm still not sure what the fuck is going on here.

Ishmael, why are you concerning yourself with behavior of sub X, Y or Z? Are they your submissive? Does their supposed lack of subby behavior cause you to lose sleep at night?

Quite honestly, I don't see what the fuss is about. Ignore him and he'll go away.

Oh, you're clearly another white knight, is she YOURS either?
(tongue in cheek)
 
Quint said:
Allow me to be the first, please. Ahem. DUH.

I cry bullshit from the first post.

I went back and read it, because I'm like that.

Yep. And duh.
 
Netzach said:
Oh, you're clearly another white knight, is she YOURS either?
(tongue in cheek)

Nope.. hb isn't my sub.. and if she was I wouldn't expect her to take anyone's bs either.

Yeah..you know from our private dealings that I do tend to be the white knight type but I'm also the type to gut someone just for the pure pleasant of seeing them cry and to feel their warm blood on my hands. Go figure.. :rolleyes:
 
Ishmael said:
So a sub hooks up with someone. Dom or not, and is told to do something by that person and the first word is, "No."

I'm not speaking of anything sexual, or dangerous. A small task of little consequence.

What can one take away from that behavior?

Ishmael

My 2 cents? As a self proclaimed submissive, I request the same respect that I give. Just because a so called dominant (and believe me, there are just as many Dom posers out there as sub wannabees) tells me to do something, doesn't mean I should hop to and do it, just because he's dominant. If he ASKS me to do something, like any other person on the planet would, then I'd consider it, and either do it or decline, as in the real world. Now, if you were MY Dom, or had the potential to be, that would be a little different, because i'd want to prove to you that I am capable of following directions and submitting. In a nutshell, Respect... you've gotta give it to earn it.
 
Chris_Xavier said:
Nope.. hb isn't my sub.. and if she was I wouldn't expect her to take anyone's bs either.

Yeah..you know from our private dealings that I do tend to be the white knight type but I'm also the type to gut someone just for the pure pleasant of seeing them cry and to feel their warm blood on my hands. Go figure.. :rolleyes:


FungiUg asked the same thing you did a number of posts back, you're late on the scene, dude. I was just cliffs-notesing the response that got.
 
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Netzach said:
FungiUg asked the same thing you did a number of posts back, you're late on the scene, dude. I was just cliffs-notesing the response that got.

Yeah.. I see that. :rolleyes:

Day late.. dollar short..
 
I have skimmed many of the posts here, but regardless of why Ish is asking (lots of people ask lots of things and I have no clue about the intent they have regarding why they are asking!) I will try to give my POV.

I can be blunt, I can say 'no,' I can argue.
Some people may view that as either disrespectful or non-submissive, that is fine by me.
If I 'hook up' with someone, whatever that phrase means to the individual involved, then I may well say no to a task.

My saying 'no' may be teasing, I may see it as dangerous (if he asked me to jump off a cliff, would actually do it without forethought..?) or it may be a hard limit we have not discussed.
If I am teasing it is obvious and I will do it anyway.
If he asks me in a way that means 'no' is not acceptable then it is done. No hesitation, no argument I do know the difference.
If he owns me i trust him therefore I can give myself the pleasure of not having to think about whether it is the right thing to do.
If it is a new relationship or one that appears to be a one-off event (something that has only happened once), then everything he asks will be considered before acting upon it.
I view that as personal safety not dis-obedience.
I hide very little of me on Lit. That has not always been wise, but that is my choice.

I have told potential Doms I post here and in doing so know they may read my posts in order to see what kind of person or type of submissive I am.
If they read it and don't come back, that is fine too. Yes, before you wonder about it, that has happened. ANdante read every post he could find of mine, we were together for 2.5years so something I posted must have given him an idea of what I was like.

If I were to meet someone who posted on a forum I would want to read their words, whether it was sexual forum or not. You can get a good idea of people from the consistency of their type of posting.

Perhaps it may be viewed as the equivalent of asking friends about that person.
There is merit in reading their unguarded words, it allows a clearer picture of them instead of having the subjective views of others or friends given to you when a relationship is new. I have made the mistake of listening to other people who knew someone. It caused me alot of mental stress.

I probabaly ask 'why' more than I say 'no.'
I have been told that is not my best trait, but it is a part of who I am. The longer I am in a relationship the more I trust that person (or not) and the less the words 'no' and 'why' occur.

Also: ADR I think your av is sexy, I can't understand why your pm box is a dusty as mine is. :kiss:
 
Netzach said:
Honestly, if I get with a guy and he's a pussy and a yes-man on the first date rather than just very *attentive* - if he's refined his list of fetishes and his "submissive neeeeeds" list and just want to negotiate that all date long, and if he strikes me as incapable of saying no rather than *disinterested* in saying no, I'll move along just as fast as the BS "you can't vanquish me" brigade.

As for just standing and watching people, I don't expect my slave to take the high road every time someone who fancies him/her/itself Dominant pisses him off, in fact I rather LIKE it if he doesn't, because my slave is a reasonable man, it's what I like about him. Chances are if something's pissing him off it's usually stupid and deserves whatever reaction it gets.

If H greeted the rest of the universe with "I'm just a stupid loser" he'd be a literal mess. That's where I come in, he can be like that with me and get it out of his system. Likewise, I can't beat up the rest of the world like that and get anywhere, so he's uniquely suited.

Our slavery is private (mostly) symbiotic, and has approximately jack shit to do with how I'd expect him to be towards anyone other than me if I had him join me on lit.

For that matter, I think now that I'm not making a living with how I present self, if one were to meet me at a scene event, they might have no idea how to place me on the continuum till they saw me interacting with my husband. I like it like that. I don't need to come across as pompous ass du jour lest someone mis-file me. I personally resent and laugh at people who insist on displaying their "Dominant (barf)" behavior all over the place.

It's not something I keep in the bedroom, but it IS called "a private life" for a REASON. And it should be that way.


Not quite sure what this is saying in response to my post as I am a bit distracted, but if it is about interaction with others on Lit, while I don't expect anyone to act a certain way, especially if it is not their way usually, nor am I expected to be something I am not, I would not be involved with someone who was loud, foul mouthed, abusive, or overly familiar with others which basically is what it sounds like you expect and have. We are both quiet and private in all aspects of our life which is probably one of the reasons we understand each others reactions and expectations so well. :cathappy:

Catalina :catroar:
 
catalina_francisco said:
Not quite sure what this is saying in response to my post as I am a bit distracted, but if it is about interaction with others on Lit, while I don't expect anyone to act a certain way, especially if it is not their way usually, nor am I expected to be something I am not, I would not be involved with someone who was loud, foul mouthed, abusive, or overly familiar with others which basically is what it sounds like you expect and have. We are both quiet and private in all aspects of our life which is probably one of the reasons we understand each others reactions and expectations so well. :cathappy:

Catalina :catroar:

I think we're totally on the same page, but I don't understand why you agreed with the part you were agreeing with? I mean on certain levels, sure, don't flag one thing and then be something totally other. But if you're flagging something and being something totally other with someone you're not involved with, I think we both agree that's irrelevant.
 
shy slave said:
I have skimmed many of the posts here, but regardless of why Ish is asking (lots of people ask lots of things and I have no clue about the intent they have regarding why they are asking!) I will try to give my POV.

I can be blunt, I can say 'no,' I can argue.
Some people may view that as either disrespectful or non-submissive, that is fine by me.
If I 'hook up' with someone, whatever that phrase means to the individual involved, then I may well say no to a task.

My saying 'no' may be teasing, I may see it as dangerous (if he asked me to jump off a cliff, would actually do it without forethought..?) or it may be a hard limit we have not discussed.
If I am teasing it is obvious and I will do it anyway.
If he asks me in a way that means 'no' is not acceptable then it is done. No hesitation, no argument I do know the difference.
If he owns me i trust him therefore I can give myself the pleasure of not having to think about whether it is the right thing to do.
If it is a new relationship or one that appears to be a one-off event (something that has only happened once), then everything he asks will be considered before acting upon it.
I view that as personal safety not dis-obedience.
I hide very little of me on Lit. That has not always been wise, but that is my choice.

I have told potential Doms I post here and in doing so know they may read my posts in order to see what kind of person or type of submissive I am.
If they read it and don't come back, that is fine too. Yes, before you wonder about it, that has happened. ANdante read every post he could find of mine, we were together for 2.5years so something I posted must have given him an idea of what I was like.

If I were to meet someone who posted on a forum I would want to read their words, whether it was sexual forum or not. You can get a good idea of people from the consistency of their type of posting.

Perhaps it may be viewed as the equivalent of asking friends about that person.
There is merit in reading their unguarded words, it allows a clearer picture of them instead of having the subjective views of others or friends given to you when a relationship is new. I have made the mistake of listening to other people who knew someone. It caused me alot of mental stress.

I probabaly ask 'why' more than I say 'no.'
I have been told that is not my best trait, but it is a part of who I am. The longer I am in a relationship the more I trust that person (or not) and the less the words 'no' and 'why' occur.

Also: ADR I think your av is sexy, I can't understand why your pm box is a dusty as mine is. :kiss:


Let me clarify in that you have pointed out the flaw(s) in my broad brush there.

On this board I'm not expecting a self described sub to even be civil to a self described Dom(es) not their own. Disagreements occur and humans are human afterall.

I'm more specifically refering to conversations about people that aren't on this board. Gossip if you will.

I can see being disappointed because someone wasn't what you wanted. I can see being irate if they had pretended to be what you wanted, but weren't. But to berate someone behind their back for not being what you wanted, but being exactly what they said they were is a big red flag to me.

It causes me to ponder if the speaker even knows what they want? If they are what they purport to be? And why should I exepct any different treatment from them if I were in the third parties place?

There is a graphic example of this behavior in an old thread on this forum. Maybe I'll dig it up soon.

Ishmael
 
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