Rape as a Fantasy

[Never]

rosco rathbone:
"Your point assumes that men and women loathe rape for the same reasons, Never."

No, my point assumes that, since men and women couldn't loathe rape for the same reason and since men do loathe rape, that the theory is incorrect. It is possible that the theory you provided is incomplete. It's simply more convenient for me to work with what you've given me than second-guess you and work with a nebulous other theory that may or may not exist.

If there is additional information then I'd be happy to hear it and discus its flaws and merits.

"message to diety Have you read the book?"
I've read ever book that's ever existed. I, um, just seem to have forgotten this one. Yes, that's it. He's certain to believe that one.

 

[sinnndy]

i had my rape fantasy fulfilled by my fiance, in fact, i wrote about it here. Deep down, i knew that my fiance was benind the whole thing, and i was also in the situation where i coudn't do anything to stop what was happening, so i tried to enjoy it as much as possible. As demented as that might seem, the sex was enjoyable for me, again, maybe because i felt that my fiance was behind the whole thing.

i was also almost raped by someone i had met from the net who ended up not being who he said he was. i was a lot younger at the time and very naive, but i learned a lesson from that.

 

[cheesysusie]

I will admit, I haven't read the whole thread, so I have no idea the context I'm putting my my post into. However, I have read the first couple of pages, and it is the original thread-starter I'm specifically responding to. I have been raped very brutally twice, by the same group of men. Both times it was a life-altering, devastating occurrence. I personally would never imagine rape to be a good fantasy. And I can tell you, the real-life event is worse than anyone could ever imagine. Please, if really being raped sounds appealing to you, get some help. Or work through this on your own. But do something. Because that can't be healthy.

 

[qweenoftheDamnd]

I think rape of a hetero man, if done via strapon to anus, or especially cock to anus, is even more of a violation that it is for a woman, because it fucks with his sense of who he is sexually.

Unda

i was raped three years ago, and i have to say it fucked with my sense who i am sexually alot. rape is a horrible violation regardless of which sex you are.

sexually, i am attracted to women. i have fantasies about forced sex, in various degrees, but only by men. unfortunetly it is the only way i can get myself off. i have just begun to play the sub in bondage/spanking with my up-until-now vanilla bf(although i like to recieve, i have a feeling my nature is domme)... as for my girlfriend, she doesn't even know that i am interested in this sort of thing.
i know this is who i am sexually. the only thing i am unsure of is why, but it doesnt matter--- what ever floats your boat.

 

[reanne]

I must admit I have "rape" fantasies too. But of course they involve clean handsome men, and no actual injury or damage done. It relieves the "victim" of all responsability for the depraved acts they are "forced" to perform. No guilty feelings for doing something that may cross your moral line. That being said, I was raped. I have read several of the posts stating that rape is a brutal violent act. Well not neccesarily. In my case I was simply not strong enough to stop him from doing it. He wasn't violent or angry. I can't say that I know what exactly was in his head, but it seemed that he just wanted to "put his mark" on me. This was someone I had trusted as a friend for many years. The odd results of this are that although I really enjoy being tied or having my wrists pinned above me, whenever my body (torso) in pinned down and I cannot move, I panic and become almost hysterical. I can't believe that there is anybody out there who fantasizes about actual rape. The truth is that anyone who has been truly forced into sex will be left with scars, whether physical or emotional.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Silliness aside...

Rape isn't about sex. It's about power and rage... and violation... and sometimes death. I don't think we can just limit this to the sex.

Just my 2 cents.

PBW

I think sex is about all of these things too, to a point.
(my 2 cents)

 

[sweetnpetite]

I have no problem with your opinion but to lie it all at the feet of feminism seems rather short-sighted as well.

If sex has to do with sexual attraction at all, then what of the more extreme serial rapists who rape indiscrimately - from a 6 year old girl, to a 98 year woman. Is there not some misogyny occuring there?

On the other hand, what about prison rape - where one heterosexual man rapes another heterosexual man?

Then there's date rape, where two people may indeed be attracted, but one forces another to have sex nonconsensually through ignorance, misunderstanding or something else.

It's a complex act, and fantasy.

You are confusing "sex" with "sexual attraction" they arenot the same. Rape is about power AND sex, not attraction (or at least not generally attraction to the person)

Most everyone else here is confusing "rape" with forced or violent sex. You CAN have either one voluntarily or non-voluntarily with someone you are in a long-term (and even loving) relationship. You can also have non-voluntary or forced sex that is not violent in the least. 2 times (seperate men) I have been in a situation where the man basicly just bulldozed past my objections. There was nothing violent about it except that they where stronger than me and I chose not to fight to the full extent of my abilitys. I can tell you that it feels pretty crummy. And yet, I still have my fantasies. Because in MY fantasy, I am in controll, I'm just pretending that I'm not (as was said eirlier, I am not responsible for my bad behavior) When I walk alone at night, I hope that no one would attack me, sexually or otherwise. There is a defiant part of me that would like to think that I would enjoy it- that /he/ couldn't take anything from me, or hurt me. But that is just a flipside to the girl who lays there and pretends its happening to someone else. Its not real.

I agree, most rapes don't include every horrible thing you could possibly imagine. And some people might enjoy some of the rougher aspects (a hard ground, a few scratches and bruises) of a 'realisit' rape. But an actual rape, while partly about sex for the attacker would very likely not be about sex for the victim. It will be about loosing your power over yourself, your sense of safely, your belief that the world is ok. You'll probably be repulsed and afraid, not knowing if this person is sane, or what they will do next. You'll be confused, scared, many things, but you probably won't feel sexy, or turned on. I think that requires at least a modicum of relaxation, some feeling that you are safe. Even if you are raped (truly not role play) by a loved one in a non-violent way, you will likely feel betrayed and violated that the person was not able to respect your boundries. In short, at the very least, you'd be pissed. If your not pissed, you didn't really mean "no" when you said it, and that's fine, but you should be honest with yourself.

 

[sweetnpetite]

exactly...you can't be raped if you're willing...so it's more forced sex, right? i dunno...i could be wrong...*Shruggs* in fact, i prolly am...i'm always wrong...and i'm excessively hyper today so please excuse my babbling...weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think maybe its still rape even if your willing if the rapist doesnt know that your willing. You probably could proban;y set it up with the help of a third party. but like a threesome with your guy and another girl, i dont think you would fully know how you would feel about it till after. I actually did read a pretty rough story on lit. the hubby set the wife up (dhe did,t know buy had given him cart blanch) and things got out of hand. I only hope that story was fiction

 

[sweetnpetite]

UCE, regarding your comment on the strength of the vagina. I’m guessing yours must be made of brick or mine is made of tissue paper. I think one average man could make a woman bleed, especially when it comes to object rape.

Absolutly

 

[sweetnpetite]

Well, there are a great many women who still either personally believe or who are in mini-cultures that believe that an abortion is wrong and cannot be considered. For such a woman, particularly if she really didn't want children, the rapist has potentially tied her down and ruined the next 18-20 years of her life with an extremely difficult burden. At very least, even if she goes the adoption route, she'll carry the social stigma as well as the stretch marks for the rest of her life. I think that is one reason pregnancy is seen by terrible by some. The term of "imprisonment" can be longer than that suffered by someone who just contracts aids.

i dont think its about stretch marks somuch as that you have created another life, and the responsabilities that go along wit it.pregnancy isn't just a "situation" (even AIDS is a situation) weather you are pro-life or pro-choice. maybe there are worse things that could happen, but none so complicated, and few if any that would be harder to deal with, physically, emotionally, socially and spiritually.

And i do NOT agree that anything you can walk awy from is better than death. Dead people don't have to deal with the afterafects, the implications, ect. Dead people don't have to go on living, putting one foot in front of the other. Dead people dont have to put the pieces of thee life back together. All of that is for the living.

 

[sweetnpetite]

It was a lot of assumption to make over Naaki’s "pop in", but I’ve seen the wars you’re talking about so I can understand your defensiveness. There’s no such thing as an online perv-sanctuary.

she [the pokeiner] said she wasdisterbed by the TITLE of the thread, imagine if she had read it! I think it actually was kind of rude of her to say anything without reading the thread. besides the objectionable title was "rape fantasies" which are quite common and not really "out there" I think she (wrongly) assumed it was about a man's fantasy to rape, rather than the womans fantasy. either way, she wasnt conserned about what we were saying ABOUT the topic, only that we were discussing that toopic

 

[sweetnpetite]

You miss the point again, Marquis - anyone could suffer those things regardless of gender. Only a woman could have the additional horrible result of impregnation.

I think it would be equally bad for anyone. But its rediculous to act like its anywhere near as common for a man to be raped as for a woman. MOST men are relatively safe from this type of attak, whereas most women are at a very high risk, just because of being women. EVERY woman knows at least one rape victin. GARANTEED

 

[RoughPlay]

whereas most women are at a very high risk, just because of being women. EVERY woman knows at least one rape victin. GARANTEED

Sweetnpetite

Why do you think genuine rape (as opposed fantasy rape play) is so common ?

What do you think would help reduce it significantly and ideally stop it
all together ?

 

[lark sparrow]

You are confusing "sex" with "sexual attraction" they arenot the same. Rape is about power AND sex, not attraction (or at least not generally attraction to the person)

Most everyone else here is confusing "rape" with forced or violent sex. You CAN have either one voluntarily or non-voluntarily with someone you are in a long-term (and even loving) relationship. You can also have non-voluntary or forced sex that is not violent in the least. 2 times (seperate men) I have been in a situation where the man basicly just bulldozed past my objections. There was nothing violent about it except that they where stronger than me and I chose not to fight to the full extent of my abilitys. I can tell you that it feels pretty crummy. And yet, I still have my fantasies. Because in MY fantasy, I am in controll, I'm just pretending that I'm not (as was said eirlier, I am not responsible for my bad behavior) When I walk alone at night, I hope that no one would attack me, sexually or otherwise. There is a defiant part of me that would like to think that I would enjoy it- that /he/ couldn't take anything from me, or hurt me. But that is just a flipside to the girl who lays there and pretends its happening to someone else. Its not real.

I agree, most rapes don't include every horrible thing you could possibly imagine. And some people might enjoy some of the rougher aspects (a hard ground, a few scratches and bruises) of a 'realisit' rape. But an actual rape, while partly about sex for the attacker would very likely not be about sex for the victim. It will be about loosing your power over yourself, your sense of safely, your belief that the world is ok. You'll probably be repulsed and afraid, not knowing if this person is sane, or what they will do next. You'll be confused, scared, many things, but you probably won't feel sexy, or turned on. I think that requires at least a modicum of relaxation, some feeling that you are safe. Even if you are raped (truly not role play) by a loved one in a non-violent way, you will likely feel betrayed and violated that the person was not able to respect your boundries. In short, at the very least, you'd be pissed. If your not pissed, you didn't really mean "no" when you said it, and that's fine, but you should be honest with yourself.

PBW says: Silliness aside...

Rape isn't about sex. It's about power and rage... and violation... and sometimes death. I don't think we can just limit this to the sex.
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Rosco says: Many people libidinize power, rage, and violationl; from both the doer and doee side of the equation. The definition of rape as a "crime of anger, not sex" is wishful thinking originally proposed by feminist activists with no insight whatsoever into the psychosexual workings of the actual human bean.
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lark says: I have no problem with your opinion but to lie it all at the feet of feminism seems rather short-sighted as well.

If sex has to do with sexual attraction at all, then what of the more extreme serial rapists who rape indiscrimately - from a 6 year old girl, to a 98 year woman. Is there not some misogyny occuring there?

On the other hand, what about prison rape - where one heterosexual man rapes another heterosexual man?

Then there's date rape, where two people may indeed be attracted, but one forces another to have sex nonconsensually through ignorance, misunderstanding or something else.

It's a complex act, and fantasy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a two month old conversation, but for the record - yes, rape or forced sex happens for numerous reasons and in many forms - that was exactly my point, sweetandpetite. It can be about an urge to get off in a human hole, power, resentment, projection, displaced rage, etc. not necessarily about an attraction to a particular person obviously, other than their vulnerability to being forced and taken.

 

[lusciouslanda]

Ok, while rape may be about violence and not sex, there are rapes of force without violence. Such as threats, intimidatation, drugs, etc. If you read your local sexual assault/rape statutes the legislature has outlined many possible ways to rape (without leaving a mark). Many date rapes occur this way and thus go unreported. Certainly, it is unlikely that any victims enjoy such an assault. Nevertheless, many young people, i.e., children have enjoyed being molested at one time or another (often it is a fleeting moment of pleasure before realizing the impropriety of it, or before reaching the age of understanding). Many such "victims", myself included, love and cherish their rapists for years until they realize that social mores do not approve.

 

[sweetnpetite]

One of the main questions I've been wanting to ask that I hoped would flow from this conversation is this: If you enjoyed it, would you be upset at your rapist? After all, whether or not you enjoyed it, his intentions were the same. I'm just curious as to how you or someone else who shares this fantasy might feel about that UCE. Also, do you think that you would enjoy being raped even if it were not arranged, but if "alls well that ends well" as they say (you weren't too hurt or anything like that)?

I would definaly still be upset. I would not like or trust that person, I would try not to even think about them, ever. But I probably would have a harder time coming forward. I think it would be better if women where free to say "he forced himself on me, and it started to feel good, but he still raped me" and be able to win a case. I mean, after you slap me, the sting goes down,and my face gets warm and it kinda feels nice, but its still asault. I think a big part of the whole trama with sexual abuse and rape is that if a woman/girl did have any moment of enjoyment, she feels more shame and guilt, it makes her healing more dificult.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. In the twisted repressed Puritanical sexual landscape of America, a date-rape is held as a more heinous crime than a murder. Nothing that you can walk away from is as serious as murder.

Really? Because where I live a man was tied up and made to watch white 2 or 3 guys raped his daughter -he could do nothing to protect her- and then she was kidnapped. I'm thinking that he might have rather been killed than not being able to protect his own child.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I think rape of a hetero man, if done via strapon to anus, or especially cock to anus, is even more of a violation that it is for a woman, because it fucks with his sense of who he is sexually.

Unda

a woman being raped by a man also fucks with her sense of who she is sexually.

Just becuase men teld to be homophobic, I don't think that necesarily means its worse for men. At least a strait man doesn't have to turn around and try to have a loving and trusting and normal sexual relationship with a man after being attacked by one. I also don't think stranger rape is necessariy worse than date rape. Maybe more violent, and that;s a big maybe. I know woman who have been violently and forcibly raped by there husband. HOw is that for a mind-fuck? Who will protect you if your own husband is your attacker? Where and how will you ever be safe??? Who can be trusted? (NOONE) If you can't trust anyone, who will you turn too?

 

[Pure]

Luscious Landa, you make a good point:


Ok, while rape may be about violence and not sex, there are rapes of force without violence. Such as threats, intimidatation, drugs, etc. If you read your local sexual assault/rape statutes the legislature has outlined many possible ways to rape (without leaving a mark). Many date rapes occur this way and thus go unreported. Certainly, it is unlikely that any victims enjoy such an assault. Nevertheless, many young people, i.e., children have enjoyed being molested at one time or another (often it is a fleeting moment of pleasure before realizing the impropriety of it, or before reaching the age of understanding). Many such "victims", myself included, love and cherish their rapists for years until they realize that social mores do not approve.

In fact, you example shows that not only does there appear to be no violence, but no (unusual) force. The minor was persuaded, and in legal terms, did not consent. I understand 'unusual force' to mean 'more force than necessary for the usual sexual act'--penetration etc, needs a little 'force' after all. After all, if someone even touches you or a fly lands on your arm, some tiny force is applied.

If you get your 'date' a little too drunk to care, and s/he goes along with things, you may have a rape.

You sneak into the neighbors' house at night where husband and wife live, and sleep in separate rooms. You make love to one of them, let's say, the wife, pretending to be her husband; that too is rape. And enjoyable, in one sense (for that moment).

 

[sweetnpetite]

.
This is a two month old conversation, but for the record - yes, rape or forced sex happens for numerous reasons and in many forms - that was exactly my point, sweetandpetite. It can be about an urge to get off in a human hole, power, resentment, projection, displaced rage, etc. not necessarily about an attraction to a particular person obviously, other than their vulnerability to being forced and taken.

I have had consentual sex that was based on these things. I think we are diluding ourselves when we think that sex is all about physical attraction, love, or even lust. Sex is a primal instict, it isn't clean and sweet and loving (at least not naturally, it can be w/ a bit of help) Its messy, violent, and primal. Its result-childbirth-can be described the same way. Most things we need in life are gross when you think about them (eating, heart pumbing blood, deficating, blowing our nose) Sex isn't much diferent in that respect. Don't get me wrong- I'm not against sex, it's beatiful, wonderful, exighting- like a thunderstorm. Beautiful yes, messy, yes, wet, yes!!!!

Rape IS about sex, and all the things that sex represent to different people. (control, power, rage, lust, shame, self-doubt, ect). What makes it rape is not what the sex is about- but wheather or not consent has been given or implied. Rape could even be about love- maybe I think that I can "make" you love me by pushing myself on you. It is about taking what should be freely offered.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Sweetnpetite

Why do you think genuine rape (as opposed fantasy rape play) is so common ?

What do you think would help reduce it significantly and ideally stop it
all together ?

I think its common because of the shame involved. Women do not come fwd, people prefer to believe that its not true, so they blame the victim. ANd its maily a crime against women. There;s more being done to insure that men can get viagra, than to prevent women from rape.

MOre lateer..so tiered

 

[Pure]

Hi S & P

you said,


Rape IS about sex, and all the things that sex represent to different people. (control, power, rage, lust, shame, self-doubt, ect). What makes it rape is not what the sex is about- but wheather or not consent has been given or implied. Rape could even be about love- maybe I think that I can "make" you love me by pushing myself on you. It is about taking what should be freely offered.

Excellent! Well put!

The anger of some rapists does not wipe out everything else in the picture. Even if it were a dominant element in the picture.

'He' forces sex on the one he's angry with? That can't be a simple universal formula. Maybe he's angry because of his sexual feelings, or through his sexuality; or even angry because woman X arouses those feelings. Or, ashamed of his angry sexual feelings, he angrily tries to shame someone sexually.
The possibilities are many, and maybe differ from cases to case.

 

[Valcorie]

I agree with the thought -most don't want an actual rape

I agree with Bondage Bunny. As a fellow sub I too have had the 'rape' fantasy. However, no one wants to be raped by someone totaly unactractive (rotting teath, lice infested, AIDS) or have their life threated. I think the appeal is in the unexpected, forced sex. However, once again you can't rape the willing, and if it is something that you want it is no longer rape.

One of my close friend put themselves in a position to be raped. She had a rape fantasy, and dated someone specificly because they had date raped someone else. Part way through the date she changed her mind and tried to leave. He raped her anyway. It was so horrible she almost commited suicide afterward. It was NOTHING like she expected. She felt guilty, dirty, used, and hurt. The worst part was almost no one belived her, they thought she deserved it.

Most individuals that do put themselves intentionaly at risk, have not thought the idea through.

 

[Pure]

Valcorie said,

One of my close friend put themselves in a position to be raped. She had a rape fantasy, and dated someone specificly because they had date raped someone else. Part way through the date she changed her mind and tried to leave. He raped her anyway. It was so horrible she almost commited suicide afterward. It was NOTHING like she expected. She felt guilty, dirty, used, and hurt. The worst part was almost no one belived her, they thought she deserved it.

Not an uncommon tale, I'm afraid. Sorry to hear it. And the 'real' acting out of sexual fantasy is always a surprise.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Re: I agree with the thought -most don't want an actual rape

I agree with Bondage Bunny. As a fellow sub I too have had the 'rape' fantasy. However, no one wants to be raped by someone totaly unactractive (rotting teath, lice infested, AIDS) or have their life threated. I think the appeal is in the unexpected, forced sex. However, once again you can't rape the willing, and if it is something that you want it is no longer rape.

One of my close friend put themselves in a position to be raped. She had a rape fantasy, and dated someone specificly because they had date raped someone else. Part way through the date she changed her mind and tried to leave. He raped her anyway. It was so horrible she almost commited suicide afterward. It was NOTHING like she expected. She felt guilty, dirty, used, and hurt. The worst part was almost no one belived her, they thought she deserved it.

Most individuals that do put themselves intentionaly at risk, have not thought the idea through.

You aren't quite right about the "no one wants...." part. I know several people who feel differently.

Here's an interesting topic for debate: would you hold your friend in any way responsible for what happened to her?