Rape as a Fantasy

[rosco rathbone]

Great post, evesdream.

I see no reason why humans should not be compared to bugs. We are all biological units after all. Some say we men evolved from lowly worms-who is to say that a ghost of their primal sex instincts might not linger on in the lizard-or worm-brain of everyman.

One good point made by Thornhill and Palmer is that women's deep loathing of rape may be as much of an evolved reaction as men's rape instinct. Rape may ( in the distant past) have tended to improve the reproductive chances of inferior males who could not obtain mates other than by force; at the same time it would have decreased the reproductive choice of women, who naturally wanted their eggs to be fertilized by the BMOC instead of the creepy loner and who therefore have an evolutionary reason for instinctual rape hatred.

That's as best as I can explain their theory, all distortions my own.

 

[lark sparrow]

Yeah, people keep telling me I have other reasons for asking these questions, I am dying to know what those are.

Here is the context that was missing in your original and follow up posts which lead to alot of, although perhaps interesting, unnecessary and unrelated posts.

A friend of mine was working as a waitress at a bar and one night when she was closing late her boss forcibly raped her. She wasn't hurt very badly but she went home crying and quit the next day. She told me about this a few months later and I wanted very much for her to call the police, but she said she wouldn't do it. I asked her why and she said it was because afterwards she decided she had liked it and the thought of it makes her hot to this day. I tried to tell her that firstly, her psyche may just be equivocating the situation to help her deal with the pain (she's not even into BDSM and she has a lot of problems as it is), and secondly his intentions were the same whether she liked it or not. Mostly, I think she should tell the police because he is probably going to do it to another girl if he hasn't already. Mostly, this topic was created to try and understand her.

As it was, it did very much seem there was something behind your questions and that you were having a difficult time expressing it, without giving whatever "it" was away. Now it makes much more sense, thanks.

 

[Marquis]

No problem.

 

[UCE]

A fascinating and compelling posting, evesdream!

J

Yes, her experience and that of Marquis's friend bring out the ambiguity of such situations very well.

UCE

 

[evesdream]

Great post, evesdream.

That's as best as I can explain their theory, all distortions my own.

i also like how it ties so neatly in with your gnome discourse, treatise, voyage fantastique....

 

[evesdream]

No but its kind of redundant.

right, redundant not 'oxymoron'. I hate when i do that.

 

[evesdream]

But, snort, I gots ta ask: it is a _fair_ comparison?

(thinking of certain people whose names I will not name who remind me quite a bit of dungbeetles at this moment).

I'm *not* sure i know who the dung beetle in your life is right now Irregardless we need to discuss soon, it's been forever!

 

[rosco rathbone]

i also like how it ties so neatly in with your gnome discourse, treatise, voyage fantastique....

Well shit, no wonder I love that book. I could have written it myself.

 

[Bondagebunni]

I have nothing to say, i just feel like posting something so...yeah, rape fantasies, have those.

 

[naaki]

I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread yet, but the title of signals a little trepidition in me. I wonder if that's true of a lot of women reading it?

 

[k_girl23]

I never understood the term "play rape". Rape to me is something that no one would want to go through, it leaves scars (emotional) that sometimes never really go away completely, in fact of the people I know the scars are still there but are dealt with. My ex boyfriend raped me, and although I am past it it does take me more time than alot of people I know to trust someone. Anyways I'm not sure how to explain it but play rape isn't a term I would use. I've sat looking at the screen trying to get my point across coerently but it hasn't worked so far.... I will stop trying.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I never understood the term "play rape". Rape to me is something that no one would want to go through, it leaves scars (emotional) that sometimes never really go away completely, in fact of the people I know the scars are still there but are dealt with. My ex boyfriend raped me, and although I am past it it does take me more time than alot of people I know to trust someone. Anyways I'm not sure how to explain it but play rape isn't a term I would use. I've sat looking at the screen trying to get my point across coerently but it hasn't worked so far.... I will stop trying.

I think what you are saying is that you don't have any rape fantasies, which is understandable. Some have them and some don't.

 

[UCE]

I keep losing threads in this place!

I was trying and trying to find this rape one because I needed the book reference. Went back four pages...five pages...six...

Finally I said fuck it and decided to go back to the top and ask for the book again. And then...there the sucker is, at the top of the list! Thank you very much, Rosco.

Well at least I can get the book link now. :/

 

[UCE]

I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread yet, but the title of signals a little trepidition in me. I wonder if that's true of a lot of women reading it?

Not me. It turns me on immensely.

 

[UCE]

I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread yet, but the title of signals a little trepidition in me. I wonder if that's true of a lot of women reading it?

I should say a little bit more. I don't want to upset you or anything, but it's people who post politically correct things like the above that cause me trepidation, because such people, at least in my past, try to control the desires of others in discussion groups by making it too unpleasant for the minority to talk about their needs.

Remember, this is a board dedicated to sadism, masochism, control, power, freaky fetishes, and all sorts of nasty things like that. If you want politically correct speech or attitudes, a bdsm forum--or any other sexually edgey group, for that matter--might not be the best place to find those sorts of things.

If a kind of sexuality makes you uncomfortable, it helps you and also the people who really enjoy this kind of sex to stay out of the threads that discuss it. I get a little weirded out by certain malesub threads, so I just leave them if I start to get uncomfortable. Unfortunately, staying away from what one dislikes does not seem to be human nature. We had a thread a week or two ago about animal-human sex, and a great many people felt the need to post negative comments about that fetish in it. It made the people who are into that particular kink a little to a lot uncomfortable.

Unda

 

[lark sparrow]

I should say a little bit more. I don't want to upset you or anything, but it's people who post politically correct things like the above that cause me trepidation, because such people, at least in my past, try to control the desires of others in discussion groups by making it too unpleasant for the minority to talk about their needs.

Remember, this is a board dedicated to sadism, masochism, control, power, freaky fetishes, and all sorts of nasty things like that. If you want politically correct speech or attitudes, a bdsm forum--or any other sexually edgey group, for that matter--might not be the best place to find those sorts of things.

If a kind of sexuality makes you uncomfortable, it helps you and also the people who really enjoy this kind of sex to stay out of the threads that discuss it. I get a little weirded out by certain malesub threads, so I just leave them if I start to get uncomfortable. Unfortunately, staying away from what one dislikes does not seem to be human nature. We had a thread a week or two ago about animal-human sex, and a great many people felt the need to post negative comments about that fetish in it. It made the people who are into that particular kink a little to a lot uncomfortable.

Unda

UCE you are talking about not censoring while you are censoring this person. Not only censoring, but suggesting that their opinions are not their own and they are not a great free-thinker like you. This forum also preaches safe, sane and consensual, so perhaps it is a wee bit too tame and limited for your fantasies - too politically correct.

There is a difference between fantasy and what people actually choose to do often. In my reading, you seem to have an opinion on everything, which is cool - it makes you, you - but then to turn around and say that only those who agree may speak is ridiculous. People have a right to their opinion - you, and anyone who disagrees with you, included. People have a right to think about things and respond to things as they wish. If someone is not brave enough to voice their opinion, it does not mean that everyone else must be meek and silent. You are certainly not.

And as you speak about not making negative comments, you are indeed doing so. The thread topic turned out to be about an actual rape, and a woman's ambivalence afterwards. What makes you think that your opinion is more valid in this BDSM forum and that you are the only one who can state a negative opinion in the right?

 

[Never]

Let me see, if a woman says she feels trepidation about reading a thread about rape then she's Politically Correct and trying to control the desires of others.

Got it.

rosco rathbone, both men and women have a deep loathing of being raped yet only one can get pregnant.

 

[rosco rathbone]

There are men that fantasize about being raped. Lots of them.

 

[Marquis]

Pregnancy is a long way from being the worst thing that can come from rape.

 

[Never]

rosco rathbone:
"There are men that fantasize about being raped. Lots of them."

Did I ever say, or imply, that men didn't fantasize about being raped?

 

[UCE]

rosco rathbone, both men and women have a deep loathing of being raped yet only one can get pregnant.

Both, however, can get aids. So can the rapist for that matter.

(Not to mention that a woman stronger than a man can rape him with strap-on, to anus, but he probably won't get aids from it.)

So what's your point?

Unda. Crucia. Eximius.

 

[UCE]

UCE you are talking about not censoring while you are censoring this person. Not only censoring, but suggesting that their opinions are not their own and they are not a great free-thinker like you. This forum also preaches safe, sane and consensual, so perhaps it is a wee bit too tame and limited for your fantasies - too politically correct.

Utter straw man. You claim I am censoring her. How can I possibly do so? I am not a moderator. I also didn't tell her not to speak. Telling someone to shut up, even though I did nothing of the sort, is not censorship, by the way. Look at what all the regular posters have said to OO: shut up, go away, get out of our faces you asshole! Why, one person even went so far as to start this faux "commentary" thread in order to make fun of OO, probably in the subtle hopes that she would be shamed and go away. If what I wrote to that woman, above, was "censoring," than what you and others have done to outside observer is a thosand times more so becuase you people have actually said to her directly and many times to shut up and go away!

I never did tell this woman to shut up, however, and I never would. Here's what I actually did.

What I actually did in my message is merely stated a truth: that people who say things like she does cause _me_ tredidation due to very negative experiences in my past. And I did it very nicely, too, telling her I didn't want my words, which were simply a statement of fact, to get her upset.

I also politely recommended that if she gets uncomfortable with a thread, she do just as I do: stay away from it. This strategy works beautifully for me (for example, I'm not reading your commentary thread because it would just piss me off) and I would like to know where you get off on calling someone giving advice to another, advice that I follow myself, religiously, as trying to censor someone! If that person had been talking about vitamin supplements, and I had some I wanted to recommend, would you somehow turn my recommendations into my "censoring" all the other vitiman products out there?

Here's an example much more close to home: I habitually put very obnoxious people on ignore and I strongly recommend that you do, too, LarkSparrow. By suggesting this to you am I therefore limiting you free right to listen to what you want to listen to? Why not? If I tell a person to follow my "ignore the thread" strategy I am, according to you, censoring THEM, so why am I not censoring YOU from listening to the voices of others by advising you that ignoring that person's words is a great strategy?

Larksparrow, how can you possible assert that I am censoring some poster when all I did was tell her (I assume it's a her) that I felt uncomfortable with her words because of my own history, tell her I didn't want her to be upset, and passed on my stategy for dealing with threads that distrub me! Were you just not thinking and reading my words through some bizarre reactive filter or do you have some actual logic behind what you said?

I would really like an answer to the following questions if you have one: How the hell is anything I said to this woman "censoring" her when I am not a mod and can therefore do NOTHING to stop her from saying anything AND when I was simply offering a suggestion for her that really works well for me? Am I not supposed to talk about my personal experiences when someone does something that reminds me of them, Mistress? Am I not supposed to make recommendations or give advice, or is it just my own advice, the advice I follow and apply to myself, that I'm not suppose to give to others? Please clarify these deep matters for me.

If you still want to call that censorship, and you can't explain how it is so adequatly, then that's your problem, Larksparrow, not mine, but please realize that you are only arguing with yourself, as I did not censor anybody.

Let me put this in another way: If she has an absolute right to express her opinion, that this thread makes her feel tredpidation, then I have an absolute right to express mine, which is actually not an opinion so much as feelings based on long and bitter experience: that words like hers make ME feel trepidatious. Not saying what I did, when I considered it important to express my own opinion would have been censoring myself. Is that what you want--is that what you would have preferred I did? So that her opinion would reign and no one would dispute it? If so, you are the promoter of censorship, not I.

Unda. Cruica. Eximius.

 

[lark sparrow]

Someone popped their head into a thread and said: I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread yet, but the title of signals a little trepidition in me. I wonder if that's true of a lot of women reading it?
------------------------------
You said in part: Remember, this is a board dedicated to sadism, masochism, control, power, freaky fetishes, and all sorts of nasty things like that. If you want politically correct speech or attitudes, a bdsm forum--or any other sexually edgey group, for that matter--might not be the best place to find those sorts of things.

If a kind of sexuality makes you uncomfortable, it helps you and also the people who really enjoy this kind of sex to stay out of the threads that discuss it.
----------------------------------
You seemed to tell her this forum and BDSM was not the right place for her, possibly. That if she doesn't like it, perhaps she should go away. And perhaps she should stay away from any topic she finds mildly uncomfortable. Call it what you want, but it seemed a bit unprovoked to me and I mentioned it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Both, however, can get aids. So can the rapist for that matter.

(Not to mention that a woman stronger than a man can rape him with strap-on, to anus, but he probably won't get aids from it.)

So what's your point?

Unda. Crucia. Eximius.

Since women are pregnable, rape of men is more acceptable/less of a violation? I dunno. Who can fathom the cosmic mind of a chthonic diety?

 

[lark sparrow]

No woman wants an unwanted pregnancy, particularly not by a forced, hateful and ugly rape. Men cannot get pregnant. Yes, bad things can happen to anyone who is raped regardless of gender. However, as a topic, pregnancy is a woman's concern of her own body. Abortion? Carrying it for nine months in your body and then adoption? Trying to raise the child despite how it was spawned? A man would never have to worry about these things in a rape - that seemed clear to me.