Real Time/Lifestyle Vs *Online* Dominants

[the captians wench]

I don't consider your relationship cyber. I consider it long distance. Why you don't consider it RT long distance and assume that when people are talking about cyber BDSM it doesn't apply to you, I don't know. I see H a few times a year at best, but I don't consider him a cyber slave.

For cyber only whatever, I'm glad it's rewarding.

But, don't you dare start portraying yourself as an expert on BDSM when you have never actually been in the same room as the person you are working with, ever, in your life.

By those standards I am an evolutionary expert because I read a lot of Stephen Jay Gould.

It's not to say I have no perspective of value, but it's not equivalent and that's it.

You know, I was "cyber only" at one point, and I never had the perverse audacity to cringe and complain and throw a fit about how unfaaaiiiiir it all is when people with RT experience would assert themselves and point out that it lent them credibility. I just didn't - I was OK with the fact that my relationships were NOT the same as theirs and my experience NOT as relevant or valuable.

Why do we all have to be so freaking equal all the time?

I think cyber is the key word there.

When some one says online, I don't think cyber right away. *shrugs* maybe that's where the confusion comes in.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I agree a means to an end...
And a medium to get to know someone more fully and see if your comfortable and compatable....
kepping in just at this online only level is what is so mysterious to me..
WHY?

for many reasons, who knows..why is it anyone else's business? why does it bother you so much what others do with their relationship? i mean if they are happy being online ONLY then that is what's right for them, i don't see where it should concern anyone else....or why anyone should have to 'explain' it to anyone else. there are many different ways to live this lifestyle, if online only doesn't work for you, then don't do it...but it happens to be the ONLY way for some people, it's what works for them.....i just don't understand why it's such a big deal.....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Cause i dont want to start cussing her out....LMAO
I am trying to keep this civil....
and i am fucking sorry but at 18 you really dont have a clue yet...about much
let alone something as complicated as BDSM IMHO

wow....for being in this lifestyle 'real time' you sure have a pretty closed mind. let me tell ya, at 18 i was married, living on my own and had just had my second child. age has nothing to do with it....attitude and maturity have everything to do with it.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

If you don't feel you have to defend your Dom's domliness or convince anyone of your own domliness, why even bother to post to this thread? If, as has been stated in this thread numerous times, that your relationship is real to you and what others think doesn't matter to you and your Dom, why waste your time trying to convince anyone of this? Is it because you want to be argumentative and confrontational? Could it possibly be that? I know that some people like that in their lives.

We've had 36 threads on this topic. The only difference is that a few new names pop up in the discussion/argument.

I have no opinion on this topic. I've known lots of people who met online and have wonderful real life lives together now. Many of them are here at Lit... Bandit and her Master, Catalina and F, Johnny Mayberry and Anelize, Writer Dom and Chun... the list goes on and on. And there are many who will be moving into real life as soon as real life allows them to do so.

I know a lot of people who 'play' online/by phone but have other real life relationships that matter a great deal to them. I won't name names here to protect the "innocent". ;-)

Again, I make no judgements about the kind of relationships people are involved in. If it floats your boat to roe in a fashion that is not like mine, so be it. No one needs to convince me of anything. And I'd never ask anyone to do so. It's really not my business.

This particular argument has been going on since long before I came to Lit (or any other BBs I go to) and I guess it's just never going to end. Someone will still ask the same old question and people will still feel they have to come defend themselves, their Doms/subs, and their style of relationship, forfuckingever.

For what it's worth though, (and I'm sure it's not worth a shit to anyone) I wish the best to everyone who's in love online and trying to move to real life.

you are right ADR, but these threads get old, and i guess i should give up because you're right, no one else's opinions of our relationship should matter. thank you for the well wishes

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I don't consider your relationship cyber. I consider it long distance. Why you don't consider it RT long distance and assume that when people are talking about cyber BDSM it doesn't apply to you, I don't know. I see H a few times a year at best, but I don't consider him a cyber slave.

For cyber only whatever, I'm glad it's rewarding.

But, don't you dare start portraying yourself as an expert on BDSM when you have never actually been in the same room as the person you are working with, ever, in your life.

By those standards I am an evolutionary expert because I read a lot of Stephen Jay Gould.

It's not to say I have no perspective of value, but it's not equivalent and that's it.

You know, I was "cyber only" at one point, and I never had the perverse audacity to cringe and complain and throw a fit about how unfaaaiiiiir it all is when people with RT experience would assert themselves and point out that it lent them credibility. I just didn't - I was OK with the fact that my relationships were NOT the same as theirs and my experience NOT as relevant or valuable.

Why do we all have to be so freaking equal all the time?

My poly experience is way less essence-of-poly than what Marquis is up to, currently - my bitches aren't under my roof on a weekly basis. Not equal. I'm fine with that.


I'm not trying to smack people down and make them feel bad about their activities. Cyber is hot and fun, and was very emotionally real to me - it's hugely different. It's so different to me that comparisons are kind of stupid in the larger part.

we are not a cyber relationship, you are right. but we were ONLY online at one time, i guess that's why i feel i need to defend the online only relationships. i just don't get why people care so much what others do in their relationships. if it's real to them, then so be it.....it doesn't concern anyone else..and no one else has the right to say what is 'real' for someone else.....ya know? thank you for your kind words to me netz.....at first i read your post wrong, so i edited my post because of that

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I am sorry if i am being contradictory...I am not meaning to be i guess the original spirit of the thread has been dogged....
So you and Master Pheonix met online, and he was an *Online Only Dom* to begin with right?
So i guess its his brain i wish to pick about this subject then........

If you want to pick my brain about something, you are more than welcome. My PM Box is always open...

 

[TheDivineMsM]

lol I'm with you on that one! I mean He's ONLY a 24 hour flight away....thats not too bad, right?

yeah exactly what is 24 hours anyway to be with the one you love.

 

[minx1]

yeah exactly what is 24 hours anyway to be with the one you love.

lol 24 hours of hyperventilating. I HATE flying...but you are right of course, plus with the aid of a few large whiskies....

 

[TheDivineMsM]

for many reasons, who knows..why is it anyone else's business? why does it bother you so much what others do with their relationship? i mean if they are happy being online ONLY then that is what's right for them, i don't see where it should concern anyone else....or why anyone should have to 'explain' it to anyone else. there are many different ways to live this lifestyle, if online only doesn't work for you, then don't do it...but it happens to be the ONLY way for some people, it's what works for them.....i just don't understand why it's such a big deal.....

OK first of all, it dosent bother me until it lands in my PM box....
Second why are you so defensive with me about your relationship? I am mearly asking the question as to why one would choose to be a cyber (thank you CW) slave or sub rather than a sub in real time with a real dominant.
I do see a huge difference as N pointed out between one who is cybering only and those of us in it in real life. and i dont think you can compare the two experiences, and i am not taking anything away from those who allow it to consume them in cyber.....
I am just asking why not find a local munch or group and experience it in real life if its so damn exciting to you!

God i am trying to be curious and not attack anyone or judge anyones personal choices.
I am also not passing judgement if you will look closely i am just asking why...

 

[TheDivineMsM]

lol 24 hours of hyperventilating. I HATE flying...but you are right of course, plus with the aid of a few large whiskies....

xanax

 

[TheDivineMsM]

wow....for being in this lifestyle 'real time' you sure have a pretty closed mind. let me tell ya, at 18 i was married, living on my own and had just had my second child. age has nothing to do with it....attitude and maturity have everything to do with it.

I disagree...
You can tell me absolutely that at 18 you knew yourself well?
i didnt and i bet most of us did...being married and having kids that young doesnt make you informed....
and please rose i am not attacking you i would appreciate your not attacking me

 

[Brosco]

If the OP cannot understand how a Dom/me with only online experience can be a 'real' Dom/me, does she also consider that a sub with only online experience is not a 'real' sub?

Dom and sub is a mindset - whips and chains are simply tools that some use to enhance that mindset. Submission and dominance does not necessarily involve any physical activity of this kind.

Other than there being a mutually agreed participation in dominance and submission, I am unaware of any other requirement to be qualified as being in a 'real' D/s relationship.

Evil Geoff gave some of the many reasons why some people stay online, and there are many more - if the relationship is fulfilling as it is or is the closest that they will achieve, I cannot see why it must be considered less or not real compared to those in a face-to-face relationship.

Finally, in every thread on this topic there will be those that wish to dismiss online relationships because of the cheats and liars that exist on the net - but strangely, these same people never diminish the face-to-face relationships that also have their share of cheats and liars.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

OK first of all, it dosent bother me until it lands in my PM box....
Second why are you so defensive with me about your relationship? I am mearly asking the question as to why one would choose to be a cyber (thank you CW) slave or sub rather than a sub in real time with a real dominant.
I do see a huge difference as N pointed out between one who is cybering only and those of us in it in real life. and i dont think you can compare the two experiences, and i am not taking anything away from those who allow it to consume them in cyber.....
I am just asking why not find a local munch or group and experience it in real life if its so damn exciting to you!

God i am trying to be curious and not attack anyone or judge anyones personal choices.
I am also not passing judgement if you will look closely i am just asking why...

i get defensive when someone starts talking about 'online' Dominants because i dont' see that as 'cyber' there is a HUGE difference between 'online only' and 'cyber only' and these threads are forever popping up, and like i said, it just gets old. and i wonder why anyone cares what someone else is doing with their relationship. this is a sensitive subject for me because i've been trying to explain me and Master's relationship to others for the last almost 4 years.....and the whole 'convince me of your Domm-ness' seemed a bit judgmental to me..the whole first post did......my apologies if i read it wrong.....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I disagree...
You can tell me absolutely that at 18 you knew yourself well?
i didnt and i bet most of us did...being married and having kids that young doesnt make you informed....
and please rose i am not attacking you i would appreciate your not attacking me

yes, at 18 i DID know myself..i HAD to know myself as i had my first child when i was 16 years old. my mom died two weeks before my 15th birthday, i grew up VERY quickly and i know i'm not the only one who has had to do that. if i hadn't grown up, i wouldn't have been able to take care of two kids and a husband plus the house, bills, etc...again, age has nothing to do with anything, i know quite a few young submissives and Dominants who have been living the life for a while, or atleast knew 'who' they were and where they fit into the lifestyle. i am not attacking you, i'm just saying age doesn't always matter.....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

If the OP cannot understand how a Dom/me with only online experience can be a 'real' Dom/me, does she also consider that a sub with only online experience is not a 'real' sub?

Dom and sub is a mindset - whips and chains are simply tools that some use to enhance that mindset. Submission and dominance does not necessarily involve any physical activity of this kind.

Other than there being a mutually agreed participation in dominance and submission, I am unaware of any other requirement to be qualified as being in a 'real' D/s relationship.

Evil Geoff gave some of the many reasons why some people stay online, and there are many more - if the relationship is fulfilling as it is or is the closest that they will achieve, I cannot see why it must be considered less or not real compared to those in a face-to-face relationship.

Finally, in every thread on this topic there will be those that wish to dismiss online relationships because of the cheats and liars that exist on the net - but strangely, these same people never diminish the face-to-face relationships that also have their share of cheats and liars.

very well said

 

[TheDivineMsM]

If the OP cannot understand how a Dom/me with only online experience can be a 'real' Dom/me, does she also consider that a sub with only online experience is not a 'real' sub?

Dom and sub is a mindset - whips and chains are simply tools that some use to enhance that mindset. Submission and dominance does not necessarily involve any physical activity of this kind.

Other than there being a mutually agreed participation in dominance and submission, I am unaware of any other requirement to be qualified as being in a 'real' D/s relationship.

Evil Geoff gave some of the many reasons why some people stay online, and there are many more - if the relationship is fulfilling as it is or is the closest that they will achieve, I cannot see why it must be considered less or not real compared to those in a face-to-face relationship.

Finally, in every thread on this topic there will be those that wish to dismiss online relationships because of the cheats and liars that exist on the net - but strangely, these same people never diminish the face-to-face relationships that also have their share of cheats and liars.

I don’t play with cheats or liars and I fully vet my subs to make sure they are not married or otherwise involved....
I don’t believe you can really and fully experience the full context of BDSM in a cyber situation only.
I agree Geoff made great points, and he gave me the most insight thus far into the whole idea of why some would find that acceptable play but lacking nonetheless.
Yes I would not consider someone who has only had the benefit of cyber submission a full submissive, yet. That is my opinion and why I kick so many out of my PM box who are only cyber subs, and have no interest in taking that into reality. I think that if you are only willing to submit online then there is truly something about real life submission that scares you or otherwise turns you off...and that is not truly being a submissive I my opinion nor the kind of sub I am looking for
I guess the people who will argue this the most passionately are the ones who haven’t had real life experience and will swear their experiences are full, but I am here to tell you...those same people will have troubles I feel when and if they get into a real Dom/sub situation...its a whole different ballgame
Just my .02

 

[TheDivineMsM]

i get defensive when someone starts talking about 'online' Dominants because i dont' see that as 'cyber' there is a HUGE difference between 'online only' and 'cyber only' and these threads are forever popping up, and like i said, it just gets old. and i wonder why anyone cares what someone else is doing with their relationship. this is a sensitive subject for me because i've been trying to explain me and Master's relationship to others for the last almost 4 years.....and the whole 'convince me of your Domm-ness' seemed a bit judgmental to me..the whole first post did......my apologies if i read it wrong.....

Well rose i am not asking you to explain your relationship or even justify it to me...oi am mearly asking a generalized question about the practice.
I am sorry if you have felt the need to defend your relationship for so long. I wouldnt if i were you.
i would simply say fuck off, its not your concern what i am doing to anyone that asked or questioned....
I will forever be grateful to CW for clairfying the cyber versus online only verbage...because truly i was asking about the *cyber only* subs and doms....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I don’t play with cheats or liars and I fully vet my subs to make sure they are not married or otherwise involved....
I don’t believe you can really and fully experience the full context of BDSM in a cyber situation only.
I agree Geoff made great points, and he gave me the most insight thus far into the whole idea of why some would find that acceptable play but lacking nonetheless.
Yes I would not consider someone who has only had the benefit of cyber submission a full submissive, yet. That is my opinion and why I kick so many out of my PM box who are only cyber subs, and have no interest in taking that into reality. I think that if you are only willing to submit online then there is truly something about real life submission that scares you or otherwise turns you off...and that is not truly being a submissive I my opinion nor the kind of sub I am looking for
I guess the people who will argue this the most passionately are the ones who haven’t had real life experience and will swear their experiences are full, but I am here to tell you...those same people will have troubles I feel when and if they get into a real Dom/sub situation...its a whole different ballgame
Just my .02

to date on this thread i am the one arguing this the most passionately, and i have 'real time' experience. you said earlier that you are not judging, re-read some of your posts and i think you'll see why some are saying you're being judgmental. if you don't understand a relationship that's fine, if you wouldn't have that kind of relationship, that's fine as well, but i'm not sure who anyone is to tell someone else they are not 'fully submissive' because of whatever reason. submission is not about getting beatings, Dominance is not about giving out those beatings, as a matter of fact i know quite a few submissives who are NOT Masochists who do not incorporate the 'beatings' and such into their play because their PYL is not a sadist either. different strokes for different folks....why is that hard to understand? even IF all they want is 'cyber'

 

[TheDivineMsM]

yes, at 18 i DID know myself..i HAD to know myself as i had my first child when i was 16 years old. my mom died two weeks before my 15th birthday, i grew up VERY quickly and i know i'm not the only one who has had to do that. if i hadn't grown up, i wouldn't have been able to take care of two kids and a husband plus the house, bills, etc...again, age has nothing to do with anything, i know quite a few young submissives and Dominants who have been living the life for a while, or atleast knew 'who' they were and where they fit into the lifestyle. i am not attacking you, i'm just saying age doesn't always matter.....

Ok i am not going to make remarks about your life at all....
But i didnt know me at 16 let alone 25...hell i am still learning about me now.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Ok i am not going to make remarks about your life at all....
But i didnt know me at 16 let alone 25...hell i am still learning about me now.

we never STOP learning about ourselves or life. but that doesn't mean we can't know what we want to some extent and go after it.....

 

[Brosco]

I don’t believe you can really and fully experience the full context of BDSM in a cyber situation only.

Assuming we have the same definitions of BDSM and D/s I would agree with you. The full extent of BDSM would be very difficult on the net, but do I need to know how to wield a whip safely and effectively and have had experience doing this to make me a 'real' Dom, especially if I have no interest in doing so?

Even if I did want to wield a whip - my lack of knowledge and experience doesn't not make me less of a Dom, it just makes me who has some more learning to do - and most will agree that the lifestyle consists of ongoing learning - no one ever knows or experiences it all. By that standard, there are no 'real' Dom/mes.

Knowledge and experience with the various tools does not make one any more (or less) of a sub or Dom. Its what is in the heart and mind that makes one what they are. Different circumstance may limit what tools may be used to enhace a mindset, but those tools will not change who we are inside.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Well rose i am not asking you to explain your relationship or even justify it to me...oi am mearly asking a generalized question about the practice.
doms....

Actually, if you look at the wording of your original post, it doesn't come across as asking generalized questions, but a full attack...

so....
This is the question...
Can you really call yourself a Dom/me if you are just doing it online? (cause i dont think so)

That first part is indeed a question, but you sure included your judgment. And then you wonder why people were feeling judged?

I feel there is soo much more to being a Domme.....than you can ever experience *virtually*.

An opinion I addressed in my first post .

I mean seriously I understand people wanting to get thier feet wet and investigating online...But damn...to call yourself a Dom or Domme when all you have done is direct someone to beat themselves.......Give me a fucking break!

By the definition of Domination, it is about exerting control over someone. And the example you gave is a definite example of a form of Domination, that you use dismissively. Is it not an act of control to to order one to do something to themselves?

So what do the rest of you think?
Please convince me of your Domme-ness....if you have only done *online*

OK, this is knee deep in contempt. You are asking people to convince the almighty you of their domliness. You wonder why people are acting defensive, look at the way the original post was worded. People respond based on the words and the tone of a thread. This is also a subject that does get hashed out on here often, and many are dismissive of those of us who have come to this lifestyle on-line, so maybe we are a bit jumpy.

If you want to pick my brain as you said in an earlier post, you are free to PM me. But if you need me to convince you of the merits of my calling myself as a dominant, don't bother.

 

[TheDivineMsM]

to date on this thread i am the one arguing this the most passionately, and i have 'real time' experience. you said earlier that you are not judging, re-read some of your posts and i think you'll see why some are saying you're being judgmental. if you don't understand a relationship that's fine, if you wouldn't have that kind of relationship, that's fine as well, but i'm not sure who anyone is to tell someone else they are not 'fully submissive' because of whatever reason. submission is not about getting beatings, Dominance is not about giving out those beatings, as a matter of fact i know quite a few submissives who are NOT Masochists who do not incorporate the 'beatings' and such into their play because their PYL is not a sadist either. different strokes for different folks....why is that hard to understand? even IF all they want is 'cyber'

Rose I am going to stop responding to your posts because you are missing my point. I am going to once again try and clarify and if you get it great if you don’t great either way I am not responding to you in this thread anymore....
If you have real time experience The question doesn’t apply to you. I said that out right.
I am only asking the question of those that do *cyber* only and have no interest in taking that real time in real life.
Why you feel the need to take up the argument when it clearly doesn’t apply to you is beyond me
And you are the only one who i feel is getting the impression i am being judgmental.
I never said that you must be beaten to be fully submissive...i can be perfectly dominate and never strike a sub....i only said there is a world of difference between being dom or sub online than there is in real time.
And finally it is hard for me to understand why someone would only want to cyber sub or dom…kinda like I don’t understand people who only want to cyber sex…I mean if I cant feel the dick or the pussy then what the fuck?

I do hope we can be civil from here on out…and I do hope to see you on the boards rose. You seem like a nice lady.

 

[TheDivineMsM]

Assuming we have the same definitions of BDSM and D/s I would agree with you. The full extent of BDSM would be very difficult on the net, but do I need to know how to wield a whip safely and effectively and have had experience doing this to make me a 'real' Dom, especially if I have no interest in doing so?

Even if I did want to wield a whip - my lack of knowledge and experience doesn't not make me less of a Dom, it just makes me who has some more learning to do - and most will agree that the lifestyle consists of ongoing learning - no one ever knows or experiences it all. By that standard, there are no 'real' Dom/mes.

Knowledge and experience with the various tools does not make one any more (or less) of a sub or Dom. Its what is in the heart and mind that makes one what they are. Different circumstance may limit what tools may be used to enhace a mindset, but those tools will not change who we are inside.

I agree the experience is different and cannot fully be realized in an cyber chat unless you have some sort of real time to back it IMHO.

yes i agree you can be an inexperienced Dom and just need skill training and what i am suggesting is that skill training cannot solely come from online if you are to realize your full potential as a dominant.
I am not talking about a feeling inside i am talking about the complete package, and it seems to me if your only doing it cyber style you have not fully become all the dominate you can be or the full package dom.

Can someone at least agree with that?

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Rose I am going to stop responding to your posts because you are missing my point. I am going to once again try and clarify and if you get it great if you don’t great either way I am not responding to you in this thread anymore....
If you have real time experience The question doesn’t apply to you. I said that out right.
I am only asking the question of those that do *cyber* only and have no interest in taking that real time in real life.
Why you feel the need to take up the argument when it clearly doesn’t apply to you is beyond me
And you are the only one who i feel is getting the impression i am being judgmental.
I never said that you must be beaten to be fully submissive...i can be perfectly dominate and never strike a sub....i only said there is a world of difference between being dom or sub online than there is in real time.
And finally it is hard for me to understand why someone would only want to cyber sub or dom…kinda like I don’t understand people who only want to cyber sex…I mean if I cant feel the dick or the pussy then what the fuck?

I do hope we can be civil from here on out…and I do hope to see you on the boards rose. You seem like a nice lady.

first off, i am not trying to be uncivil, secondly i've been on the boards now for a while. also the reason i am passionate about this is because, at one time, i WAS online ONLY, due to circumstances neither of us could control. also because though we are not online only anymore, we still have plenty of friends who are, and yes, even some of them who never plan on taking their relationship outside of the internet or phone. and no, i am NOT the only one who feels you're being judgmental, there are others who are not posting to the thread that feel the same way.if you don't want to respond to me anymore, that's fine and dandy too but i was giving my opinion the same as anyone else. i agreed that there is a difference between doing it 'online' and doing it in 'real time' i've never argued that. but what i did argue is that it does not make the relationship less valuable or less 'real' nor does it make the couple less submissive or less Dominant if they do not want to take it into 'real time' obviously there are things they cannot 'do' while so many miles apart, but they can improvise and i can tell you, if you have a good enough imagination it can be pretty real.

Master took me to subspace before we EVER met face to face. the subspace that i experienced with Him here, however, was admittedly different than that that i experienced over the phone. again i will say which has never been answered, i just don't understand why it matters to you what others want to do in their relationship......