Relationships ruined by "lifestylers"?

[BiBunny]

Uh, from my experience growing up in a house with an overbearing, narcissistic, impossible to please mother and a father who bent over backwards to please her hateful, brow-beating ass, I can say with 100% certainty that I'd have 10 times rather had two moms...two dads...a poly household...a M/s household...divorced parents...anything where the people involved were obviously happy than hating each other 24/7. Just my 2 cents.

 

[KoPilot]

as for KoPilot, i wonder if perhaps your negative feelings toward your father had something to do with your own personal orientation. maybe it conflicts too strongly with how you personally view women and wish to treat them. but then you also mention that he was abusive toward your mother...in big ways and little ways. as a child that's something you shouldn't have been exposed to under any circumstances and i feel for you. but you should know that a Dom/sub power dynamic does not have to look like what you experienced as a child.

Whatever he wishes to do on his own time, however he wants to live his life and contribute to his marriage is 100% his business and 0% mine. But whatever parts that I am exposed to, whatever parts that influence the relationship he and I have, or my ability to conduct my life, then I am at liberty to have an opinion about them, and to voice them if I want. When he married her, I was in 6th grade. I shouldn't have been old enough to realize that I needed to stick up for myself when I visited him because he wouldn't, but I was. I was also old enough to make peace with the fact that she made him happy, and after losing his marriage and his job, I wanted him to be happy as well, even if that meant he would sometimes turn a blind eye when she bullied me.

And as for my mom and my step-father, looking back, I can't really say if it was abuse or not anymore. Maybe that's the exact kind of relationship that she wanted at first. Maybe she liked the idea of being told what to do all the time, or having to defer choices to His Authority, or face the consequences. If that was the case, why would she have told her 6 year old daughter? The circumstances don't matter. How "consensual" their interactions were doesn't matter. Not to the mind of a gradeschooler, they don't.

All I'm saying is that having young kids in the house with an M/s dynamic going on is playing with fire. Why would you risk fucking your kids up like that? It doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Uh, from my experience growing up in a house with an overbearing, narcissistic, impossible to please mother and a father who bent over backwards to please her hateful, brow-beating ass, I can say with 100% certainty that I'd have 10 times rather had two moms...two dads...a poly household...a M/s household...divorced parents...anything where the people involved were obviously happy than hating each other 24/7. Just my 2 cents.

One of these things might be an awful lot like the other, to a child's eyes.

 

[intothewoods]

Actually, it is possible to not be seen as a step parent while still being part of the family dynamic. F chooses to not step in and be a stepfather to my son, which also suits my son fine as he has issues with the thought of fathers given his biological fathers lack of interest. If my son wants F's advice about something, he will ask him similar to how you would a good friend, if there is need for us to make a decision about something which involves all it is discussed by everyone and my son offers his thoughts, I offer mine if requested to, and F makes the decision. In terms of decisions directly involving my son, F prefers me to take care of it though he will offer his thoughts and advice, and at times actively become involved.

Catalina

First of all, many experts advise stepparents not to step right into the parental role and be more of a friend or like an aunt/uncle. The older the kid the more true this is. How old was your son when you moved in with F?

 

[BiBunny]

One of these things might be an awful lot like the other, to a child's eyes.

I'm going to assume you have no idea how insulting that was.

 

[ace195008]

Sorry to hear about your household growing up BiBunny...narcissistic ppl are some of the worst to deal with..

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm going to assume you have no idea how insulting that was.

As a queer BDSM woman who gave up a helluva lot of social life and sexual identity for my children, (as did their father) and am now finding my life once more, you can assume I don't care about your dudgeon.

 

[BiBunny]

Sorry to hear about your household growing up BiBunny...narcissistic ppl are some of the worst to deal with..

Thank you. I do appreciate it. It's not nearly so bad now, as I left home at 18 and haven't gone back since. But I know it's still a massive strain on my father, and for that, I feel guilty. I find that growing up in that kind of household has given me a unique set of challenges in personal relationships that I'm still finding ways to deal with. But I'm not going to let the bastards grind me down.

As a queer BDSM woman who gave up a helluva lot of social life and sexual identity for my children, (as did their father) and am now finding my life once more, you can assume I don't care about your dudgeon.

I'm sorry. I falsely assumed this was a discussion thread.

As a queer BDSM woman who gave up a hell of a lot of social life and sexual identity for my family and other people who claimed to love me, you can assume I don't care about yours, either. I'll leave you to your self-righteousness now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm sorry. I falsely assumed this was a discussion thread.

As a queer BDSM woman who gave up a hell of a lot of social life and sexual identity for my family and other people who claimed to love me, you can assume I don't care about yours, either. I'll leave you to your self-righteousness now.

Well, there you go.

You were subjected to your parent's self-righteousness and their refusal to change their habits, even temporarily, for the sake of the children. That's because they were narcissist/enabler, of course, but the why doesn't matter much to you does it. You were harmed by their domestic habits.

Don't subject children to your own self-righteousness, okay?

 

[VelvetSin]

I believe that anyone gives up the right to exhibit their "nature" or "life" in front of children as soon as a child enters the home if that "nature" or "life" might raise the eybrow of a court-appointed social worker, whether Master/slave, "vanilla," or anything in between. Using the excuse that "vanilla" families are screwed up too to justify behavior is nothing more than a selfish cop-out to put the needs or wants of a parent in front of the real needs of a child. As I mentioned before, if adults involved in D/s have a hard time distinguishing whether a particular relationship is abusive and argue that point at various points in time whenever it is brought up, how would a child be able to recognize the difference? Because he's told and shown love himself? Okay.

As I mentioned before, as adults, anything we say or do can be used against us at some point (and against our children). It's the way life is, and no one ever said life is fair all the time. It's our responsibility as adults to own our choices and keep them as responsible as possible. The more responsible they are, the less likely we'll end up in a court of law to defend those choices. Also, the court system usually works but it's not completely infallible. I think I'm going to retract my earlier comment that it sounds like the court system worked correctly in this case.

Posts I thought needed emphasis:
From Soumis.

From Stella.

Another Stella.

Another Soumis. This completely.

I think I'll leave this conversation because it was certainly food for thought, but it resonated in a "not happy" way, and I try to stick with the "happy."

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Geez. This is starting to become beloved part 2.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I believe that anyone gives up the right to exhibit their "nature" or "life" in front of children as soon as a child enters the home if that "nature" or "life" might raise the eybrow of a court-appointed social worker, whether Master/slave, "vanilla," or anything in between. Using the excuse that "vanilla" families are screwed up too to justify behavior is nothing more than a selfish cop-out to put the needs or wants of a parent in front of the real needs of a child. As I mentioned before, if adults involved in D/s have a hard time distinguishing whether a particular relationship is abusive and argue that point at various points in time whenever it is brought up, how would a child be able to recognize the difference? Because he's told and shown love himself? Okay.

As I mentioned before, as adults, anything we say or do can be used against us at some point (and against our children). It's the way life is, and no one ever said life is fair all the time. It's our responsibility as adults to own our choices and keep them as responsible as possible. The more responsible they are, the less likely we'll end up in a court of law to defend those choices. Also, the court system usually works but it's not completely infallible. I think I'm going to retract my earlier comment that it sounds like the court system worked correctly in this case.

Posts I thought needed emphasis:
From Soumis.

From Stella.

Another Stella.

Another Soumis. This completely.

I think I'll leave this conversation because it was certainly food for thought, but it resonated in a "not happy" way, and I try to stick with the "happy."

And this one from KoPilot.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

Geez. This is starting to become beloved part 2.

Except this one is about real stuff.

 

[VelvetSin]

And this one from KoPilot.

Crap, I was in skim-mode after getting home from work and missed that and some others.

And this. To add, the biggest influence on a child is their same-sex parent. What message does it deliver if verbal reprimands are done in front of the kid, and the woman seen most frequently in Daddy's life is starved when she misbehaves, even if it's done "out of love?"

And this.

Okay, now I'm done. Time to see if New Moon is on On Demand for more giggling at "vegetarian" vampires.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Except this one is about real stuff.

How so?

No one knows for sure how a child would turn out growing up with parents who were in a 24/7 M/s relationship.

The only one with even a slight idea is osg and she has been attacked and dismissed for talking about how she lives and her experiences.

And why stop at M/s. What about Mistress/slave(male), Master/slave(male), Mistress/slave(female), or poly households? Should they not have children either?

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

How so?

No one knows for sure how a child would turn out growing up with parents who were in a 24/7 M/s relationship.

The only one with even a slight idea is osg and she has been attacked and dismissed for talking about how she lives and her experiences.

There are a number of people here in D/s and M/s relationships, with and without kids, and with different points of view.

I don't think OSG is being attacked for how she lives. She's being questioned as to the impact of her relationship with her daddy on his kid. And I'm pretty sure she can handle herself as well as she always does.

 

[Stella_Omega]

How so?

No one knows for sure how a child would turn out growing up with parents who were in a 24/7 M/s relationship.

The only one with even a slight idea is osg and she has been attacked and dismissed for talking about how she lives and her experiences.

'Fraid thats true, the second part. But just because a lot of people say she's deluding herself-- doesn't mean she isn't.

Because yes, we do know how children grow up in those circumstances, both the best-case and worst case versions. Several of them have described their childhoods in this thread.

 

[eastern sun]

What if a son or daughter actually had the cojones to approach a parent in an M/s dynamic and asked them to stop "being like that" with mommy or daddy because it made them feel uncomfortable?

When my daughter was seven, she asked me "Why can't you decide? Why do you have to ask Dad all the time?" It threw me, because it was the first time I saw myself through her eyes in terms of our M/s relationship. And it also frightened me, because I thought she was right. It wasn't fair to her to model such dependent behavior.

I spoke with my husband that night, and told him what she said. He agreed that she needed to witness my ability to make choices, take action, solve problems, etc. as an independent woman, and used the moment to point out that he had no interest in micromanaging our lives, and that I should take initiative in their care.

My daughter today views me today as a highly creative, intelligent and competent woman (she told me so last night). And I think we handled the situation as well as we could. Taking into account the needs of our daughter, and modifying our behavior, without having to abandon the structure of the dynamics altogether.

 

[DVS]

.....

 

[DVS]

.....

 

[ownedsubgal]

All I'm saying is that having young kids in the house with an M/s dynamic going on is playing with fire. Why would you risk fucking your kids up like that? It doesn't seem worth it to me.

that's just it...what makes M/s this horribly risky, dangerous, crazy way of life that cannot possibly produce a happy and healthy household? i really cannot comment on your own childhood, as i don't know what it was like or what the relationship between your parents was. what i do know is that children should be brought up in a household of love, caring, mutual respect, appreciation and devotion. D/s, M/s, Judaism, Atheism, Poly, or any other lifestyle philosophy does not preclude any of the above.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I think I'll leave this conversation because it was certainly food for thought, but it resonated in a "not happy" way, and I try to stick with the "happy."

you certainly did more than your share to contribute to the "not happy."

 

[Stella_Omega]

How, in this domestic context, does your Master show respect to you, the slave? Specific instances?

 

[KoPilot]

that's just it...what makes M/s this horribly risky, dangerous, crazy way of life that cannot possibly produce a happy and healthy household? i really cannot comment on your own childhood, as i don't know what it was like or what the relationship between your parents was. what i do know is that children should be brought up in a household of love, caring, mutual respect, appreciation and devotion. D/s, M/s, Judaism, Atheism, Poly, or any other lifestyle philosophy does not preclude any of the above.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring all the dozens of previous posts discussing a child's ability to distinguish between protocol and a healthy, loving relationship. Not to mention all of the other things that could happen. Reread Soumis' post to know exactly how I feel.

 

[ownedsubgal]

And why stop at M/s. What about Mistress/slave(male), Master/slave(male), Mistress/slave(female), or poly households? Should they not have children either?

good questions. i'm starting to wonder exactly who, if anyone, would meet their standards for adequate parenthood....Bill and Claire Huxtable maybe?

(then again, no...Claire was pretty bossy sometimes.)