Rules for a submissive/slave - Any thoughts?

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rituals vs. Rules

I find the tone of respondes to these rules
desrespectful to those that made it up
and to people like me who have found it useful

your kink is as good as my kink

Richard, you really need to lighten up. I will speak my mind as I see fit. If you do not like my comments, do not read them.

You talk too much of respect. We all are free here to speak our minds.

I do not have to respect just anyone. and quite frankly I do not need the respect of strangers.

Respect has to be earned. All that can be expected is politeness or civility.

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rituals vs. Rules

Richard, you really need to lighten up. I will speak my mind as I see fit. If you do not like my comments, do not read them.

You talk too much of respect. We all are free here to speak our minds.

I do not have to respect just anyone. and quite frankly I do not need the respect of strangers.

Respect has to be earned. All that can be expected is politeness or civility.

eb
After this post of yours
1) I will NEVER post on thread that you do
2) oh hell never mind

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rituals vs. Rules

eb
After this post of yours
1) I will NEVER post on thread that you do
2) oh hell never mind

You are being childish. but if that is your choice, then do it. I will not kiss your ass. And I certainly do not expect you to kiss mine either. I am not here to be popular, I am here to post my views on the subject of D/s and BDSM.

 

[Pure]

Hi Richard,

thank you for acknowledging my earlier post

For me having more then 1 rule makes things difficult
short memory here

However what others might want is up to them ... and I have found this a useful list for discussion purposes

Perhaps I am tired
perhaps because I have been and am ill
or whatever
I find the tone of respondes to these rules
desrespectful to those that made it up
and to people like me who have found it useful

your kink is as good as my kink

Sorry to hear of your illness. I think the list with the caution to pick and choose and discuss is not bad, but it is, you must admit, a kind of hodge podge. I think M. John picked up all kinds of rules and rituals from lots of sources and threw them together. So indeed there's lots to talk about.

I hope you can relax and enjoy and contribute in your usual calm way.

Best,
J.

 

[s'lara]

Reminder

The point behind posting the rules was to get honest reactions. Thus far, i have seen evidence of that in the responses.

Richard Sir - i understand that this list has been useful to You in determining how You deal with Your submissives/slaves. However, with that said, it is absolutely not a doctrine which must be lauded by A/all or respected by A/all.

If You find the comments abrasive to Your way of thinking Sir, the option of not reading them is always available.

As You said, maybe You are a little tired and maybe it is because this list had been of use to You in the past. But know that each opinion here has validity to its O/owner despite having no validity to You.

i do hope that You did not mean the comments You made to Ebony. She made them with the same honesty She has expressed elsewhere. i also hope that You continue to post because i have found Your opinions to be of worth.

Thank You.

 

[redelicious]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rituals vs. Rules

thank you for acknowledging my earlier post

For me having more then 1 rule makes things difficult
short memory here

However what others might want is up to them ... and I have found this a useful list for discussion purposes

Perhaps I am tired
perhaps because I have been and am ill
or whatever
I find the tone of respondes to these rules
desrespectful to those that made it up
and to people like me who have found it useful

your kink is as good as my kink

Richard, I meant no disrespect by my posts. I am glad this list helped you and many others.

The originator of the rules put them on the internet for all to see. They are fair game for use, discussion, and even criticism.

I liked reading the different perspectives on this thread. I learned something.

And your kink is every bit as good as mine.

 

[Quint]

As one of those who were most openly critical of these rules, I would like to reply.

I, like Eb stated for herself, feel no need to give respect to every person, nor to the works they have made. I always give respect to the act of creation, but in this case, that is as far as it went for me. I found the creation itself, this set of rules, to be poorly stated. They were redundant, inconsistent, and dangerously ambiguous on at least one occasion. Therefore, while I could understand why some found them useful, I did not and could not honestly respect them.

The same goes for their creator. For people, as with deeds, respect is cheapened if it is unconditionally bestowed. This man did not impress me with his rhetoric or his "mastery." If I spoke to him, got to know him, perhaps I would change my mind. Based solely upon what I know of him, i.e. this list, I do not respect him, nor do I feel any guilt or hesitancy in admitting that.

I also feel that the posters in this thread have been remarkable in their acceptance of the "your kink is just as good as mine" philosophy. But when people have opinions, as they damned well should, they ought to be able to voice them without worrying about placating anyone else. I for one get tired of the endless "IMHO"s--I think they're pretty well understood by this point. Call a door a door.

Quint "But mine's ajar"

 

[Bondagebunni]

94.When i take a shower i can do so the way i like to, but when I have finished washing i must rinse my entire body with only cold water for not less than 2 full minutes. i am not to try to cover my body with my arms and hands thereafter. i may use a towel to dry off, but in my Master's house - i can only be dried off by
Him whipping me dry.

most of the other rules i could see someone find erotic or suit their lifestyle...but i have a real problem with this one because it's a safety issue. Cold lowers ones immune system which allows viruses and bacteria to enter and cause problems before the body can respond and fight back. This is why there's a common myth that going outside with your hair wet will cause you to catch a cold...because if it's cold out wet hair is gonna make you colder. Unless she has the heat on 75 or higher in her house (and his) that's an INCREDIBLE health risk for most people with normal or not so great immune systems.

Another one (i can't figure out where it was) said that the slave was supposed to dress in a provocative manner in all weather and not be covered. Unless this guy considers a winter coat provacative or lives in florida, this is also very very dangerous. Maybe i read it wrong but he implied that she wasn't supposed to cover herself...and i took that to mean no closed coat or other cold weather gear.

I can't imagine how someone can NOT think of the health risk of these things. I want to strangle the guy for endangering anyone's health like that. Tell me, please, if i'm over reacting here...but i find that completely unaccceptable and would gladly bludgeon the guy for it.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I stand by My post...every word of it...I kiss no asses nor bend My opinion.
The list is an overstatement, and unrealistic hodge podge of possibilities that leaves little room for growth in a real relationship.
Anyone with an imagination could write such a list numbered from 1 to 126 (9?) and perhaps even find it an interesting way to spend a bored evening.
Perhaps a condensed version, edited to remove similarities would bring this list down to 30 or so, rules that are just day to day realities in a long term BDSM relationship.
It could be seen as a great read to those who live in the fantasy of BDSM but just try and live it even for two weeks in a real BDSM relationship and then give Me your opinion on how valuable it is.
Yes there are new ideas one may not have thought of to pick and choose from...but then can that not be said from thousands of other words found either here in Lit or many other sites online?

 

[Bondagebunni]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rituals vs. Rules

You are being childish. but if that is your choice, then do it. I will not kiss your ass. And I certainly do not expect you to kiss mine either. I am not here to be popular, I am here to post my views on the subject of D/s and BDSM.

well SOMEBODY has a stick up their ass...

 

[Pure]

On the Verbose Master J.
Hi Bondage B,

I guess you 've never had the heavenly experience of Master John's whipping you dry! That well could be the least of your problems: Look at these below. He seems to have the illusion that pussies can suck other pussies. (It's repeated a couple times, so I've decided it's not a missprint or typo.) Isn't that a bit bizarre, or am I just naive?

I have included his stated background. He certainly in not a man of few words! This is from the second site I gave the address for.

=======
28. i will worship my Master's ass only after a thorough washing of it. i shall do so hungrily, being sure to lick between the cheeks for as long as Master requires me to do so. i will use my hands to spread my Master's cheeks apart. ....

109. As a cleaner slave i shall use my tongue to clean the cum of my Master from the body of a female slave He has put it upon, my cunt to suck for it from a female slave's pussy my Master has used for His pleasure, or to clean the cocks i am allowed to clean that have been pulled out of the pussies of other slaves. For as a cleaner slave i am to lick up what semen i can find. ...

122. Should Master wish for my breasts to be suckled by a female slave of His choice or that legal and safe drugs be used to induce the production of milk in my breasts, i will do my best to keep my milk up so that He and others may feed from me, that my breasts will be full, tight and extra sensitive as much as possible, for however long Master wants my breasts to produce milk for Him.

[from rule 128.]
He will throw me into higher states of consciousness with the scents of oils and incense; blood and breath control to bring me to the edge of my survival to feel the battle for my self-preservation; guns and knifeplay to intensify my awareness of my existence racing parallel with my threatened drive to live; and other such uses. Through these activities i shall learn to ride on the top edge of my fears and the bottom edge of my perception of utter terror - for it is there i shall come to know my greatest fear of all: that i will want to go there again and again.

=====
[general remarks and autobio]

The following 128 rules are written in the context of a M/s (Master/slave) relationship, but could be used by those in a D/s (Dominant/submissive) relationship, and provide a good project for those submissive/slave males to adapt them towards their relationship with their Dominatrix/Mistress, respectively (double meaning intended).

They were created over the course of some twenty years of participating in various parts of the the world of bdsm. At first I learned to 'play' as a slave for professional Dominatrixes in the San Francisco Bay Area for approximately five years with the goal of learning 'the ropes': the use of the equipment, the mindsets and internalization of submissive and slave roles, and of how complete scenes could be created within an hour, to experimenting with girlfriends in dominant and submissive roles: switching places, and dealing with and resolving issues of chosen preferences and of the results of the physical and psychological interactions.

Up until about 1987 my participation in bdsm had been private. I knew that it was more than a preference, so while living in the Seattle area I decided to make the effort, for at least one year, of going public to see if I wanted bdsm to be an active part in My life and if it was a part of My heterosexual orientation, a fully integrated component into what appeared to Me to be an emerging part of My lifestyle, something where I would feel 'at home'. I decided to join some groups in the area: The National Leather Association (headquartered in Seattle at that time) - that ran worldwide conferences in Seattle and Portland, C-Space - a weekly sm educational venue (now defunct), and a bdsm couples play party group.

I continued to read whatever I could get My hands on that appealed to My interests: Master/slave relationships and the techniques of play. I attended classes, seminars, workshops, discussion groups, conferences and play parties - from which to develop and refine the skills and responsibilities to become the Master I originally wanted to be and had felt was natural for Me to become. I applied what I had learned to the training sessions where I taught females to be well-behaved and disciplined slaves where, in addition, I had developed some of My own techniques to teach to others.

I participated in monagamous and polyamorous relationships, enjoying M/s relationships for the short and long term, where I trained females and lived the lifestyle . I taught a two day class on how to train the female slave. I learned to accept and to embrace those of different sexual orientations and play styles while maintaining my own, realizing that I could, without feeling compelled to draw away from them - play, converse and learn in the same space. I branched to participating in events held in Portland, Oregon and in Vancouver, BC. Of course, all this took much more thanjust a year.

The result: I have been in it ever since and have found incredible people through it, many of whom have become lifelong friends and continued acquintances through which to openly share lifestlyes, explore and examine techniques of play, and spend time together in non-bdsm persuits conversing and enjoying life. Being a Master was, indeed, a part of who I am. My involvement in bdsm helped Me to refine My abilities to communicate better with others and to have the M/s relationships where my greatest felt happiness could be realized in ways no vanilla relationship could provide. slaves I have trained kept asking for Me to give them a list of rules from which I had taught them to behave by and hence, those lists turned into the rules that eventually became what you see written here.

Today, I continue to learn, to teach, to train, to play, to build relationships, and to share with others. It is from these experiences that I offer these rules publicly, in magazines and newsletters, at events that I attend, over the Internet and personally, especially to females, who are sorting out who they are, finally putting together the mysterious pieces, fantasies and dreams of their past they didn't understand until now, learning to take whatever steps that are necessary to get to where they will feel more complete and whole, aware and alive inside and out, open and free, 'at home'.

They are for those females who are transitioning from a submissive: a preference explored only in intervals of time outside of a lifestyle, common in a D/s relationship, to a slave: a fully integrated lifestyle where they can commit all of who they are through their submission to a Master, even everyday life, no longer having to repress who they are, but living their need to please Him in every facet of their lives realizing submission and pleasing is a part of their sexual orientation, and that without being able to do so, they would feel lost and without direction.

It is hoped that with these rules, and a good Master, females will get to where they want to be: fully sexual and sensualized, enlightened and empowered, cared for and loved at a depth no vanilla relationship could take them, taken through their fears where they will go again and again, pushed past their limitations, managed, controlled, respected, and owned by a Master, held accountable for their behavior, their boundaries set for them in which to perform their permitted desires and His, being punished and disciplined to set their paths straight after they have confessed their wrongdoings to their Master or have been caught by Him[.]

[female slaves or those becoming slaves will be]
seeking guidance through their surrender to Him to behave in the manner in which He knows and has learned of their potential is to their benefit as well as His - ultimately living a life where they can focus on pleasing and being found pleasing in all that they do, in all their decisions, whether their Master is present or not - knowing that their greatest pleasure can only be felt after their Master has first felt His by drawing it out from them.

[followed by some specific guidelines, for modifying, highlighting and studying the rules]

 

[Bondagebunni]

*laughs* so i saw.....put at the beginning he said that mouths were to be called pussies because they were used as such...but then he changed it to "cunt" for some reason and that confused the fuck out of me...but yeah...the guy has issues as we have gathered.

as far as the other part...i got bored after awhile....(to him even though he doesn' read this) i don't want to read about what you've done...you're experiences or anything like that unless there's a valid point to it other than biographical stuff that doesn't matter to me as i don't know you.

but that's just my take on it. so i'll shut up now...at least till i read something else that annoys the hell out of me.

 

[lark sparrow]

On the Verbose Master J.
Hi Bondage B,

I guess you 've never had the heavenly experience of Master John's whipping you dry! That well could be the least of your problems: Look at these below. He seems to have the illusion that pussies can suck other pussies. (It's repeated a couple times, so I've decided it's not a missprint or typo.) Isn't that a bit bizarre, or am I just naive?

I forget which rule it was, but there was one in which the slave's mouth would be referred to as a cunt, as that was how it was to be used during cock worship - or something to that effect.

 

[Bondagebunni]

I forget which rule it was, but there was one in which the slave's mouth would be referred to as a cunt, as that was how it was to be used during cock worship - or something to that effect.

as i just said! but i believe the first time he said pussy, not cunt...and then changed it.

 

[lark sparrow]

as i just said! but i believe the first time he said pussy, not cunt...and then changed it.

lol happens all the time, Bondagebunni. While I was typing it out there was only Pure's post and I was of course unaware of what you were typing or had posted in the meantime. Back away from the stick...

 

[Bondagebunni]

lol happens all the time, Bondagebunni. While I was typing it out there was only Pure's post and I was of course unaware of what you were typing or had posted in the meantime. Back away from the stick...

heh...sorry. i'm so used to being ignored i get defensive.

 

[lark sparrow]

heh...sorry. i'm so used to being ignored i get defensive.

No worries. I wasn't trying to step on your toes.

 

[Pure]

The Missing Five: Rules 129-133

Through diligent search of the 'net, I have managed to learn the innermost and most secret of the exalted Master John's rules, and humbly hope, in posting them for our study, that I do not offend the ordinances of the One:

=====
129. When the Master enters the room, i shall be in awe of His surpassing splendor.

130. i will burst into song, such as "Jubilate Deo" and "Dominus Christus," upon catching sight of His radiant countenance, and be astonished at the choirs of archangels that attend Him.

131. When He says anything that, to my limited intellect seems foolish, such as "Mulberries are berries, so they can't come from trees." i will do my utmost to be impressed with the unfathomable depth of His genius, and will exert myself to the utmost in praising His Supreme Intelligence.

132. When the Master appears to contradict himself, by saying, for instance "My Bath is too cold" and then "My Bath is too hot" , i will be astonished at His zen-like approach, and realize he proposes such a profound paradox for my miserable enlightenment.

133. When i hear something resembling the passing of wind from the Master's direction, it shall be heard as sweet, mellifluous chimes, and, if any guests are present and should there be any apparent noisome stench which might embarrass His Reverence, i will take responsibility and say,
"O Mighty One, my humble anal orifice, while relaxing excitedly to your name has inadvertently leaked such gasses as might embarrass Your Deific Presence, and [sotto voce] i humbly offer, after you have washed the Royal Posterior, to plug
Thy Royal Asshole with my miserable tongue to prevent further embarrassment to You."

====
(the humble scribe, pure)

 

[Bondagebunni]

oh...so...funny...*falls over laughing* that was great.

 

[lark sparrow]

28. i will worship my Master's ass only after a thorough washing of it. i shall do so hungrily, being sure to lick between the cheeks for as long as Master requires me to do so. i will use my hands to spread my Master's cheeks apart. ....

A clean ass is an edible ass. Very pleasurable, no problems there (clean underlined twice) limited to the Dominant.

109. As a cleaner slave i shall use my tongue to clean the cum of my Master from the body of a female slave He has put it upon, my cunt to suck for it from a female slave's pussy my Master has used for His pleasure, or to clean the cocks i am allowed to clean that have been pulled out of the pussies of other slaves. For as a cleaner slave i am to lick up what semen i can find. ...

This is over-sharing for me in the fluid department - unless safety precautions had been taken for continued good health and staying disease-free. I would also have to be pretty far down into sub space to be licking up just anyone's body fluids without gagging. Pass on the indiscriminate "cleaner slave" or cum slut.

122. Should Master wish for my breasts to be suckled by a female slave of His choice or that legal and safe drugs be used to induce the production of milk in my breasts, i will do my best to keep my milk up so that He and others may feed from me, that my breasts will be full, tight and extra sensitive as much as possible, for however long Master wants my breasts to produce milk for Him.

Doesn't do much for me erotically, but if I were lactating I suppose a male mouth would be about the same as a female mouth "suckling".

 

[MissTaken]

Phew!

I have never been one for rote memory, not in history class and certainly not in my sex life. This poor guy would find me sadly disappointing to serve Himself unless he has something comparable to road signs posted all over the house, err palace.



Pure, Earlier on , it was said that she will refer to her mouth as a "cunt" as it was to be used as a "cunt" and all that.

He sounds a bit Gorean and as such, I am sure there are women who would accomodate him, gladly. I would imagine they are the exception, not the rule. How many women actually have the means by which to serve 24.7?

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

*Suppressing a furtive giggle* I would fail SO miserably at this!

The further we got down this list...*giggle turns into gufffaw*

<sigh>

Good thing there's room for all of us in this lifestyle

~Anelize







Pure...you CRACK me up!!!!!!!!

 

[Pure]

LS quoted Master J.

28. i will worship my Master's ass only after a thorough washing of it. i shall do so hungrily, being sure to lick between the cheeks for as long as Master requires me to do so. i will use my hands to spread my Master's cheeks apart. ....


[LS:]
A clean ass is an edible ass. Very pleasurable, no problems there (clean underlined twice) limited to the Dominant.
=====

Hey I wasn't being squeamish, just wondering about the specification to "use... hands". I guess the feet present difficulties, but also I wonder about the placement of the fingers and thumb, and certain other details. Fortunately, returning to the secret archive, already mentioned, I was able to find clarification:


28B. i shall use my hands lovingly on the Beatific Cheeks and follow this procedure. after washing hands thoroughly, i grasp the Cheeks firmly as specified, while singing "Sanctus Christi". my four fingers of each hand shall be reverentially and gently applied to respective sides of the crack directly above the Holy Orifice. my thumbs shall be placed opposing the fingers at the distal portions of the Royal Buns. In that manner is the Supreme Separation to be effected.

C. i will have undertaken, for 1/2 hour each day, the suspension of increasingly heavy weights from the ring attached to my tongue piercing, up to 8 oz., to ensure my tongue be of appropriate extensibility. Thus prepared i will sensuously insert it at least 2 1/2 inches inside the cleaned Supreme Asshole, rotating in a counterclockwise direction. i shall piously hum the "Te Deum" --or other piece selected by the One--during this process.

===
piously,
J.

 

[redelicious]

"Master" made a few references to what would be considered a meal. In one rule it was his urine and another it was the flow of another menstruating slave (oh please don't make me go back and look these up).

I wonder if his slave is at least allowed a power bar or a multi-vitamin so that she gets the nutrition she will surely need to carry out her duties.

(ok, back to respectful discussion)

 

[bunny bondage]

pure, i actually thought those were were serious - but just for a second! very funny!