Submission a Gift or What?

[catalina_francisco]

I am talking about me finding a PYL for a permanent 24/7 thing...

And I wish you knew who I was specifically talking about, This person is unbelieveable... I wouldn't do all this for anyone, ONLY THE ONE...

Master Right....

I am only this way with a person I love and cherish BTW, not everyone, I DON'T feel the need to do everything for everyone, I just have the ability to devote myself to the persuit (typo) of happyness for me and my loved ones,

I am not a person who submits to everyone or carelessly, and the idea I have for the way I want to give myself to the one I choose is my story, not everyones or yours...

I actually think it is a healthy way to approach it. I know I made a decision to not jump into a D/s or M/s relationship with just anyone, intending to make that submission with just one, once, to hopefully prevent becoming jaded and discouraged as so many do by the time they are onto PYL # 3 or 4 etc. I was told it was not possible by some, and I had others who were happy to accept it...and fortunately for me, it was the right choice for me and I haven't regretted it. Interestingly, though F had other submissives before me, I was the only one he ever offered and gave a collar to and the only one he accepted as a slave.

Catalina

 

[nh23]

I am talking about me finding a PYL for a permanent 24/7 thing...

And I wish you knew who I was specifically talking about, This person is unbelieveable... I wouldn't do all this for anyone, ONLY THE ONE...

Master Right....

I am only this way with a person I love and cherish BTW, not everyone, I DON'T feel the need to do everything for everyone, I just have the ability to devote myself to the persuit (typo) of happyness for me and my loved ones,

I am not a person who submits to everyone or carelessly, and the idea I have for the way I want to give myself to the one I choose is my story, not everyones or yours...

Exactly. You have an idea of how you want things to go. Doesn't mean that's how things will really be. I respect the way you say you will be. I respect that you want to devote yourself to someone, and do what it takes to make them happy. I do that everyday for my family. What I'm saying is fantasy and real life are two different things.

 

[unfoundiamond]

soo...

M/s and D/lg are very diffrent live in relationships,

That's why we don't understand each other...

 

[nh23]

M/s and D/lg are very diffrent live in relationships,

That's why we don't understand each other...

Sure..we'll go with that.

 

[EmpressFi]

I do think of submission as a gift. Though I see why some people would not. I have only submitted to one man, and that man is the only one who will ever get that gift. I will never take it back. If he ever feels like he doesn't want it anymore that is it up to him. But it will always be his, and never anyone elses.

When I was first collared Daddy referred to my submission as a gift before I heard of the concept. He didn't take my submission by force, I gave it to him because I loved him and wanted to make him happy--a gift. Just like any other gift the giver gets as much pleasure as the person receiving the gift. I am his most cherished, valued and prized posession.

Gifts don't have to be perfect right out of the box. Gifts can be added to, changed a bit, used different ways than originally intended--just like my submission.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is and why people get uptight about it being called a gift. Maybe I do romantisize it a bit. But I could never be a bottom, I could never submit to someone I didn't love.

I think I most closely agree with this one.. even though I'm kind of in the middle.. true.. but maybe I can explain it like this... being a submissive is who I am but choosing to submit to HIM is the gift I give to him. It was his to accept or turn down, and he chose to accept it. And his love, his friendship, his companionship, his dominance of me is the gift he gives to me in return. It was not something I demanded.. or even expected.. it just.. is. I am not on my knees thinking I'm god's greatest gift and he should be damned thankful he has me... like that article suggested. I offer myself and wait. And then I serve, because I love him and it fulfills me to take care of him.

As I was reading through this post (since I couldnt read it at work), I found it ironic how often the word "give" or "giving" was used. Just something that made me smile that whilst protesting that submission is not a gift.. give is the word most often used to describe the action...

 

[nh23]

See what trips me up about submission being a gift..is I feel like in saying that I'm saying. "Submission is a gift, and if you're a really, really good boy. Maybe I'll give you the gift of my submission."

 

[BiBunny]

See what trips me up about submission being a gift..is I feel like in saying that I'm saying. "Submission is a gift, and if you're a really, really good boy. Maybe I'll give you the gift of my submission."

Exactly. It smacks of pandering on both sides, IMO.

 

[catalina_francisco]

See what trips me up about submission being a gift..is I feel like in saying that I'm saying. "Submission is a gift, and if you're a really, really good boy. Maybe I'll give you the gift of my submission."

But that is more a mindset in your head than a reality in fact...for me by saying it is a gift to whomever you give it, you are saying that not only are you of value as a submissive (which most PYL's take pride in), but they are someone who has managed to prove worthy of your trust enough to allow you the freedom to submit to them. After all, no-one in their right mind offers it to someone who they cannot trust, who they hate, and find totally unattractive as a PYL.

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

I can see how some would see that.. but I guess we're back to the addage that this question can never truly be settled because it's personal opinion

I would never think of it that trivialized.. my submission is not some teasing toy to dangle in front of someone only to snatch it away if they dont jump through the right hoops. I just dont see gift giving that way... is the one of the most precious things I have to offer someone...

 

[catalina_francisco]

So maybe to look at it another way...if you feel it is pandering or bargaining to say it is a gift, aren't you saying it is not of enough value to be considered something someone would view as a gift or treasured, something that is not given freely to everyone who comes along, something of value? Why does it automatically register as a bargaining or negotiating/manipulative tactic in your minds? Do you feel when someone gives you a gift they are trying to manipulate you? Do you feel they only give you a gift if you do something they want and have manipulated you into?

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

Or perhaps I should take my own advice again. No one else has to agree with me. No one has to see submission or dominance as a gift. Because unless you're my husband or my Master, honestly, your opinion doesnt matter as much as theirs or as much as my own. As conceited as that sounds, it's the truth. And his opinion is this.. that I am, that my submission to him, my love to him, my heart, is the greatest gift he's ever received, one that he cherishes more and more every day.

And that's all that should matter. That's all that does matter.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can see how some would see that.. but I guess we're back to the addage that this question can never truly be settled because it's personal opinion

I would never think of it that trivialized.. my submission is not some teasing toy to dangle in front of someone only to snatch it away if they dont jump through the right hoops. I just dont see gift giving that way... is the one of the most precious things I have to offer someone...

That is closer to how I see it. For one thing, by admitting you are submissive and looking for someone to submit to, you are not inviting them to be anything more than who they are, to be that someone....quite the opposite actually as you want to know who they really are, what their values and needs are, whether you have anything in common to build on....that is not dangling carrots, it is getting to know another to see if you have a chance of having a relationship together IMHO.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

I can see how some would see that.. but I guess we're back to the addage that this question can never truly be settled because it's personal opinion

I would never think of it that trivialized.. my submission is not some teasing toy to dangle in front of someone only to snatch it away if they dont jump through the right hoops. I just dont see gift giving that way... is the one of the most precious things I have to offer someone...

But your submission is not the be-all and end-all of who you are, either. Again, it's a personality trait and a collection of behaviors. When I was owned, I gave him all of me, not just this pretty little thing I had wrapped up called "submission." He got the bad as well as the good. He got my love, my smart-ass mouth, my devotion, my inner bitch, etc. It was up to him to decide what to do with it, but I am who I am, and he knew what he was getting into in the beginning.

Nobody's doing Whatever It Is That We Do out of the goodness of his/her heart. We're all doing it because we're getting something out of it, whatever that may be. To overlook the bad to focus on the good is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The ugly is part of what makes it so beautiful.

 

[nh23]

Or perhaps I should take my own advice again. No one else has to agree with me. No one has to see submission or dominance as a gift. Because unless you're my husband or my Master, honestly, your opinion doesnt matter as much as theirs or as much as my own. As conceited as that sounds, it's the truth. And his opinion is this.. that I am, that my submission to him, my love to him, my heart, is the greatest gift he's ever received, one that he cherishes more and more every day.

And that's all that should matter. That's all that does matter.

*grins* Yes you should. The fact that I don't see that statement the same way as you do..does nothing to cheapen what you have. I think that the relationships we have can be wonderful, beautiful things. I just don't like that statement. I feel that what I have to offer is me..submission is a part of me. I don't see a gift as being the same thing. Difference of opinion. Doesn't mean what we both have isn't just as beautiful or as real to either of us.

 

[nh23]

But your submission is not the be-all and end-all of who you are, either. Again, it's a personality trait and a collection of behaviors. When I was owned, I gave him all of me, not just this pretty little thing I had wrapped up called "submission." He got the bad as well as the good. He got my love, my smart-ass mouth, my devotion, my inner bitch, etc. It was up to him to decide what to do with it, but I am who I am, and he knew what he was getting into in the beginning.

Nobody's doing Whatever It Is That We Do out of the goodness of his/her heart. We're all doing it because we're getting something out of it, whatever that may be. To overlook the bad to focus on the good is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The ugly is part of what makes it so beautiful.

Thank You Bunny..you said that so much better than I could.

 

[catalina_francisco]

But your submission is not the be-all and end-all of who you are, either. Again, it's a personality trait and a collection of behaviors. When I was owned, I gave him all of me, not just this pretty little thing I had wrapped up called "submission." He got the bad as well as the good. He got my love, my smart-ass mouth, my devotion, my inner bitch, etc. It was up to him to decide what to do with it, but I am who I am, and he knew what he was getting into in the beginning.

Nobody's doing Whatever It Is That We Do out of the goodness of his/her heart. We're all doing it because we're getting something out of it, whatever that may be. To overlook the bad to focus on the good is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The ugly is part of what makes it so beautiful.

But that does not make it any less a gift...you are giving someone something you do not give to everyone else, and they are also giving you something you treasure and which you both need to be part of a D/s relationship. F actually values the human inadequacies I have as much as the submissive ones...it is a complete picture, not a selective one...and yes, I have been given gifts before that I didn't actually like as much as the giver hoped, or had something I didn't like included, but they were still a gift given in the spirit intended and accepted as such for all their imperfections or disppointment.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

But that does not make it any less a gift...you are giving someone something you do not give to everyone else, and they are also giving you something you treasure and which you both need to be part of a D/s relationship.

Catalina

I dunno. Other people can think what they want about themselves, but I think "Bunny" would make a pretty shitty "gift." Not because I don't have confidence in myself, or whatever, but because I know I can be a pain in the ass at times, which is hardly a "gift" to anyone, and I don't feel the need to couch it in bullshit terms.

I dunno. Agree to disagree, I guess. *Shrugs*

 

[catalina_francisco]

I dunno. Other people can think what they want about themselves, but I think "Bunny" would make a pretty shitty "gift." Not because I don't have confidence in myself, or whatever, but because I know I can be a pain in the ass at times, which is hardly a "gift" to anyone, and I don't feel the need to couch it in bullshit terms.

I dunno. Agree to disagree, I guess. *Shrugs*

Babe, I am a pain in the ass often...show me a human who isn't!! That is reality, not downplaying and drowning out the good in favour of promoting the bad or imperfect exclusively. Sheesh, basically you are saying no-one should want you!!

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

Babe, I am a pain in the ass often...show me a human who isn't!! That is reality, not downplaying and drowning out the good in favour of promoting the bad or imperfect exclusively. Sheesh, basically you are saying no-one should want you!!

Catalina

You pretty much made my point for me. Not that no one should want me, but that no one should go into a relationship thinking I have some wonderful, unique, perfect thing to share with him/her and totally blind to my flaws. I've been with too many men who refused to see those flaws to begin with when I was perfectly honest about them and then wanted to hold them against me later. So, no, no gift here. Just a brutally honest Bunny.

 

[nh23]

But that does not make it any less a gift...you are giving someone something you do not give to everyone else, and they are also giving you something you treasure and which you both need to be part of a D/s relationship. F actually values the human inadequacies I have as much as the submissive ones...it is a complete picture, not a selective one...and yes, I have been given gifts before that I didn't actually like as much as the giver hoped, or had something I didn't like included, but they were still a gift given in the spirit intended and accepted as such for all their imperfections or disppointment.

Catalina

What if we take it out of a D/s context. On of the best things my husband and I have together are our children. So by having his children was I giving him a gift? Or was it two people got together, loved each other very much and had kids. Did he give me the gift of my children, or did I give him the gift of our children? Or was it an exchange? Both of us giving each other what we needed/wanted. That's how I see D/s. An exchange. We are fulfilling a deep need in each other. I guess if I were to use submission is a gift..I would have to say that dominance is a gift also. I find it much more fitting to think it of an exchange of who we are. I give him myself, he gives me himself.

 

[catalina_francisco]

What if we take it out of a D/s context. On of the best things my husband and I have together are our children. So by having his children was I giving him a gift? Or was it two people got together, loved each other very much and had kids. Did he give my the gift of my children, or did I give him the gift of our children? Or was it an exchange? Both of us giving each other what we needed/wanted. That's how I see D/s. An exchange. We are fulfilling a deep need in each other. I guess if I were to use submission is a gift..I would have to say that dominance is a gift also. I find it much more fitting to think it of an exchange of who we are. I give him myself, he gives me himself.

Ummm, if you read my posts way back to other threads on this same topic several years back (and this one as well), you will see I said both were gifts to each other, PYL and pyl...nothing new there and to me same as when you exchange presents at Christmas, Easter, or for birthdays...still a gift even though you gave one and received one from that person...you give your partner gifts, they give you gifts, still gifts...and yes, I think children are a gift to the relationship and each other.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

You pretty much made my point for me. Not that no one should want me, but that no one should go into a relationship thinking I have some wonderful, unique, perfect thing to share with him/her and totally blind to my flaws. I've been with too many men who refused to see those flaws to begin with when I was perfectly honest about them and then wanted to hold them against me later. So, no, no gift here. Just a brutally honest Bunny.

That's sad. Their inability to accept reality shouldn't mean you feel the need to promote yourself as 'shitty' as a partner or human being. So have you met someone who had no flaws, no faults, was perfect? If so, I would love to meet them as they are indeed unique and possibly the only one on earth.

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

You pretty much made my point for me. Not that no one should want me, but that no one should go into a relationship thinking I have some wonderful, unique, perfect thing to share with him/her and totally blind to my flaws. I've been with too many men who refused to see those flaws to begin with when I was perfectly honest about them and then wanted to hold them against me later. So, no, no gift here. Just a brutally honest Bunny.

And both Malin and Master have seen me at my worst... they've put up with me when I'm Fi the Bitch, when I've been the whiny, PMS-ing bitch from hell. They've seen the wonderful unique parts I have for them.. AND the horrible dirty things that I wish werent there but are as much a part of me as everything else.. and still see what I offer them..this package.. as a gift...

agree to disagree..

 

[unfoundiamond]

I am just different.

I know people say "you think you know but wait, you'lle see" but I happen to believe that's a persons bitterness talking,

Just because there's bad PYLs out there doesn't mean the one I choose will be, and if you are selective enough you can weed out the crazies...

 

[BiBunny]

That's sad. Their inability to accept reality shouldn't mean you feel the need to promote yourself as 'shitty' as a partner or human being. So have you met someone who had no flaws, no faults, was perfect? If so, I would love to meet them as they are indeed unique and possibly the only one on earth.

Catalina

I said Bunny would be a shitty gift, not Bunny is a shitty person. Big difference there. I guess I'm not articulating well because I don't think anyone has the foggiest idea about what I'm talking about. I'll shut up while I'm still ahead, I think.