Submission a Gift or What?

[EmpressFi]

Lol.. I was supposed to leave this discussion, but I found a quote by a Dominant that I wanted to share. I can't give credit due to the fact that the article didn't list the Dom's name. But it explains what I was trying to say in a much more articulated way than I could.


"if your submission is a natural imperative to you, if you simply couldn't be you without it, then you are essentially submitting to your own nature. At best this would make it a gift to *yourself*." In essence, He is saying that submission is not a gift if that submission is the acting out of your innate nature.

I would agree that it is another example of you're opinion on the gift discussion.
It still doesnt fit mine. But it's a great one for yours

 

[nh23]

I would agree that it is another example of you're opinion on the gift discussion.
It still doesnt fit mine. But it's a great one for yours

Yes. I liked it. I understand and respect the fact that my opinion and others are not the same. This just articulated my thoughts much better than I can. I was telling Bunny my mind works so much better than my mouth does at getting across what I'm trying to say sometimes. This helped me to say what I was trying to.

 

[the captians wench]

I have another question along the same lines....is love a gift?

I'm not sure where I stand on this topic, I can see both sides, and I believe both sides stand where they stand because of how their brains process the comment. Which is why I compair it to love. When you choose some one, is the love you give them a gift? Is the love you recieve a gift?

I understand the point of using submission as a carrot to dangle infront of a horse. But I don't think any one here is saying that it should be. But rather that you wouldn't sleep with just anyone, there usually has to be something special about that person for you to want to share yourself, or just your body, with that person. It could be deep, it could be "holly shit he's hot", but there is something that pics that person out from all the others in the room at that moment. Is it not the same way with submission?

 

[sexycaz22]

As a "newbie", I wanted to throw my two pennies in.....

Like Nh and Bunny, I believe that submission is a part of a person, no matter how small or how big. I don't think the submission is a gift, since it is a trait in a personality, it can't be really given, since it is deep in a person's personality. It will be always part of a person, most people on Lit often say that they felt they were a submissive since the younger years, and so this does show that submission have been always there in their heart, in their head, maybe almost all their lives. I don't see how the submission (or dominance for that matter) can be a gift?

However.....

I do agree with chelleb's view - the ACT of submitting or domination can be a gift, if and when you feel you can trust the person fully, that you have a special bond with them, then the ACT of submitting or dominating can be a wonderful gift for them, and for them to receive it.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I said Bunny would be a shitty gift, not Bunny is a shitty person. Big difference there. I guess I'm not articulating well because I don't think anyone has the foggiest idea about what I'm talking about. I'll shut up while I'm still ahead, I think.

I must say I am shitty gift as well, with a big "S" *chuckles*

But you know what? I think it's really up the one to who you submit too. My Master knows me very well. He knows I am moody fuck with a big trust issues and he knows I am so insecure it often eats me alive. He knows I doubt anything and anyone for any little reason. Things other people would be okay with I see way different and react way different on them. He knows theres almost no self-esteem left in me and he knows I can be his good girl just the same as I can be a mouthy bitch at times.

I can be just me. He knows it, I know it. Anyone whos patient and willing to deal with me and take care of this shitty me is appreciated bigtime. I see his dominance to me as a gift. Gift I do not deserve at all, but I am thankful to him to no end he is still willing to give it to me. I am bitch, but I still see my submision to him as a gift as well. Shitty gift as you say. I am surely shitty gift, I know I am, but I am still willing to let him mold me into someone so much better than I am. I am giving him all of me. The good and the bad as well. He knows whats inside of that gift and he still want it. I don't get it, but I am grateful to him that he does. I am grateful he don't throw the gift back on my head as my ex husband did.

I love this quote "I always thought it was dumb for him to pick me in the first place. I'm not special, I never was, never will be. He just made me believe I was and broke my heart when he finally realized I wasn't".

I always knew I am not special and yes for a while my ex thought I am, I dunno why but guess he did when he wanted me in his life, but then he found out I am not and throwed me away. The difference between my husband and my Sir is that my husband throwed me away once he found out I am far from being perfect. My Sir knows it as well, he knows I am not perfect. When we started our D/s relationship I could seem perfect to him, but he surely get to know me much deeper as the months goes, so now he surely knows I am not perfect nor special nor the "right one sub", but he still wants me around. He still wants me as his submissive and for me thats the greatest gift someone can give me. To want me the way I am. Love me the way I am. With all my faults and mistakes. Thats a gift, it surely is, at least for me.

I am submissive and I am giving it to him completly. With all the good and all the bad in it as well. I can't give him just the pretty sweet side of me, wish I could but I can't, so he have to deal with the bitchy me as well. All of it it's part of me, it's who I am. My submision it's a gift. Not one I am prode of, but I still see it as a gift. My Sir have teach me submission it's a gift. Hell yeah even my submission, with me being pain in the ass sometimes (pretty often lol )

I can say just this. If someone sees me and what I am offering as a gift I am thankful they can see the good in me. It's not easy and lots of people give up on me in the past and I can just say I do understand why they did it. I am not easy to love and I am not easy to live with, so if theres someone who still think I am worth of his time, attention, love and care - for me it's a gift yes. A gift I don't take lightly. A gift I appreciate and cherish very much. A gift I have dream about for a long long time.

So if I see his dominance, love and care as a gift (and I do see it as a great gift) I am giving him back the same love, care and all my submission which is surely a gift for him. He appreciate it and the way I am giving myself to him. I appreciate him for receiving me the way I am. Theres a happines in being loved the way we are. With all our faults and mistakes. It's a gift yes. A gift wich is hard to find I must say cuz theres not much people who will love you the way you are.

You might ask why I am talking about love so much when the OP was about submission? Well for me D/s is a lot about love and recieving and sharing and trust, thats why. My submission goes hand in hand with love for my Sir, I dunno different. He's man I love and I must say I belong to him way much more than I ever belong to my ex with who I lived for 15 years. I couldn't have just a play Dom. One I would meet just so he could use me and hurt me and let me serve him, I dunno this. When I do this kind of things my feelings are involved, always. I cannot let just anyone spank me same like I couldn't go out and fuck someone when my husband was cheating me. I was his with body and soul untill he pushed me away. I never cheated him eventho I had millions reasons to do so, I never did.

With my Sir is the same. I am his with body and soul, in good times and bad times as well. My undying devotion is the only only good thing about me I can give to him and if he sees that as a gift I am happy and more than happy to give it to him.

 

[catalina_francisco]

maybe I am just wired wrong then...ok.. while I agree..having a babe solely because HE wanted one..yeah..that's pretty stupid.. sorry.. it is... however.. I will say.. that it must have been implanted in me at some point in my indoctrination..because from pretty much the first time a doctor said, "I'm sorry, you just cant have children."... I've apologized ohhhh at least a dozen times to Malin for being broken..for not being able to provide him with a child. Not out of duty.. well maybe a little.. because that's what HE wants.. I want it too.. I've wanted it since I was 16 years old.. but if it were just me.. I'd mourn but be ok.. but it plagues me that I cant give him something he wants too

You don't know how much I can identify with this.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Well, I understand that people have had and still do have children for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I actually agree, though I do think there is a greater possibility of success if the person is having a child out of love and submission, than one who does it because they feel it is expected of them as a duty, not to mention because that is what our mothers and grandmothers did because it is how things go.

Catalina

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I think you sell yourself way too short Bunny.
Catalina

Yeh I think the same.

I might be noobie in BDSM and Bunny have surely much more experiences with Dom's than I do, but she surely haven't meet the one who would love her the way she is. At least thats how her posts on this thread sounds to me.

Have a Dom who likes you, like play with you etc etc and have one who loves you and is there for you no matter if you're good girl or bitch are two different things. I know many Dom's who would enjoy me as a sub to play with LOL. But I am grateful for the one whos there for me to love me, take care of me as his sub and be with there for me all the time, not just for playing.

I think Bunny haven't meet the special person/Dom just yet, so I understand her posts very well. Once she will meet the Dom whos really the right one for her, the one with who she will mesh well, she will change her mind.

I was lucky I have found my good caring Sir so soon... well he found me actualy.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can see what people are saying about being submissive being a trait and part of who we are (at least on that level), but what was being spoken of, or I thought so anyway, was not whether it was a gift someone was a submissive, but whether their submission could be seen as a gift to the one they give it...there is no right answer, but for me it is a gift in that it is required to be given, not given to each and every person you meet, not taken or accidentally stumbled upon and assumed it is OK to use, and without one giving their submission to another, that other does not have their submission and the opportunity to in turn be Dominant toward and with the giver in a symbiotic relationship. When I give a gift to someone, I always hope it will give them pleasure on some level, and possibly make their life easier in some way....when I give my submission to F, I also hope it brings him pleasure and makes his life easier, which he tells me often it does.


Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have another question along the same lines....is love a gift?

I'm not sure where I stand on this topic, I can see both sides, and I believe both sides stand where they stand because of how their brains process the comment. Which is why I compair it to love. When you choose some one, is the love you give them a gift? Is the love you recieve a gift?

I understand the point of using submission as a carrot to dangle infront of a horse. But I don't think any one here is saying that it should be. But rather that you wouldn't sleep with just anyone, there usually has to be something special about that person for you to want to share yourself, or just your body, with that person. It could be deep, it could be "holly shit he's hot", but there is something that pics that person out from all the others in the room at that moment. Is it not the same way with submission?

Great post..as to the question 'is love a gift'? I think it is. The world we find ourselves in is far from loving, caring or nurturing...having someone who accepts you for who you are, flaws and positives alike, is such a rare and beautiful thing it often seems to me to be the gift I needed at just the moment he found me. I thought so at the time, but as the years have passed and we have faced life together, I find myself recognising just how much it has changed my life for the better, how much it is responsible for me being alive today and happy, not to mention secure in a relationship (and this includes family, friends, aquaintances) for the first time in my life. There is no greater gift IMHO.

Catalina

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I dont think Bunny or Nh are saying they arent good people or arent worthing of being cared for/in a relationship or anything like that...

I think that they just look at it differently and see the way that you and I see things as overly romanticized. Whereas they see things as "This is who I am".. love me or leave me.. your choice.

neither of us are right, neither of us are wrong.. we just are who we are. They're never going to say to us "ohhhh I see your point.. you're right" anymore than we're going to say the same to them. We're individuals and think differently.

I think they see submission in a uhm very cheap way and it sounds just cold to me, ice cold. I am not making D/s relationship romance, but for me is BDSM about love alot, so I do understand Unfoundiamond posts very well. She have a wish or a dream or however you wanna call it and I am sure she will get what she want. I am not saying it will be easy to find the special person, but I won't say it's impossible cuz it is possible.

I love when Catalina talk about F, that just showes me that dreams can come true!!

I was hurt in the past and actualy by now I should be cured and stop dreaming that much, but hey I am a bit nerdy in this so I still have my dreams, I always will.

My curent Sir is surely man I was dreaming about and I am happy in his care.

 

[chelleb]

.............

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I cannot help it but hear someone says that submission is just an "attitude" makes me feel like all I do is just an attitude. When you love someone thats a attitude as well? heh

If my Master told me I am the way I am just cuz of my attitude I would prolly tell him, I am sorry but I am not an "attitude". What I feel is not just an "attitude" and what I do for you or with you is neither just an "attitude".

When you love someone or submit to someone its not just cuz you picked up this attitude to love him. You love him just because. Because you love him. You submit to someone because you love him or trust him as well, not because you have the right attitude to do so LOL.

You can love someone and still have a bad attitude at times. You can submit to someone and still have the bad attitude at times as well. For me is submiting to my Sir giving myself to him, its not just an attitude. Its a decision I made after I find out if he's all I need same as if I am all he needs from me. I know if we mesh well or not so I know if I can give myself to him and not regret it 10 mins after.

You could get hurt real bad while some BDSM practics I think and you still give yaself to him in trust he won't hurt you or damage your body or emotions. Its a gift cuz theres a risk in what you offering. Once you're bound theres not much you can do to stop someone to do with you as they damn please and for me give myself to someone like this is a gift and its nothing someone would or should do lightly or just cuz he have the right attitude lol.

I think its a gift and one should think very well before offering it to someone. You can let someone play with you, like nh23 did when Sir_Winston gave her some cupping. Thats what I see as attitude yes. Attitude to let someone use her. But honestly I dont see submission as being willing to let someone give you what you enjoy. I see submission as something so much deeper than just an "attitude".

When I submit to my Sir he's giving me things I like same as things I don't like that much when I am being bitch and I know once I will get into his hands irl he will use me in in a raw animalistic way. I might get lots of what I want but I will also get alot of what he needs and want from me. I know he would use me way I wouldn't forget that soon. He loves me and I know he wouldn't hurt me for real, but he's a sadist and he would surely give me a hard time, I know he would and I want it with all of my being cuz I know its what he want and needs from me, I know its what he crave for and I wanna give it to him, I wanna let him use me so he could satisfy his needs on me whatever it takes, I will take it.

I don't really think its smart to let an sadist use you just cuz you think you have the right attitude. It needs devotion, comitment, trust and it needs YOU being willing to take whatever he damn please to do with you. It needs submission yes, deep submission I think. I wouldn't go for this just cuz of some attitude I might have, that would be just stupid lol.

I can imagine a sub whos willing to do things for someone just cuz she just decided she will go for it and she have that kind of attitude and then I can imagine a sub whos there for her Sir to do with her as he please just because she dunno different. Shes not like that cuz of her attitude, not at all. She's like that cuz she have an incredible need to satisfy her Master. It's deep inside of her, the need to please him whatever it takes. The longing to satisfy him and let him use her for it no matter he might do to her.

Maybe its a mind set of a sub and a slave I dunno, I am surely my Master's slave and theres nuthing I wouldn't take for him and it iss not a matter of attitude at all. I crave it and I need it same as he crave to take it from me and satisfy his needs on me. It's an powerful exchange and I really think to give myself to someone this deeply is a gift, same as what he does for me and gives me is a gift.

I often think of the way I am and I see myself as some kind of lil scared animal whos runing thro the forest. Theres a beast in the forest and my nature tells me to hide away from the lion which could kill me with one bite. Do you know what dogs does when they wanna show you their submision? They lay on their back.

I do the same with my Sir. I lay on my back just like the dog and wait whats gonna happen. I know he might come to me and bite his teeths right into my neck and feed on my blood. I would still lay there and let him do that tho. I often feel his animalistic need to give me a lesson and all I can say is just "I am here for you Sir. Do with me as you please. Use me to satisfy your need, I am here to ease your hunger whatever it might take."

And he loves it yes. He loves when I am like this. Its not an attitude tho, its the way I am, I dunno be different and he loves it and sees it as a gift. And I am thankful I can give it to him and see him satisfied. See my Sir satisfied gives me so much of pleasure, way much more than my own satisfaction. I crave it and need it. I need to satisfy the beast in him and I feel its what I was born for. I was born to serve and please and I love to provide satisfacion to my Sir. Giving it and receving it, both of it is a gift for me.

 

[Netzach]

I'm totally able to enjoy, cherish and adore M without slapping some kind of a commodity-thinking thing onto it, at least some of the time. I mean I know I'm a consumer if you really map it out, but I still have some shred of Marxist idealism that says even people who want to get fucked up the butt by me are not commodities.

I think I'm a perfectly kick ass person and partner, but relationships are work and liabilities and hard as often as easy and effort. No one has made me as upset or as happy as my husband - is he giving me a gift? I think the universe is giving me a gift, he's just it. I think it's really arrogant to think we are our own to give and take and move around and have this wonderful sense of control in picking who we run into and who we open up to- fate and people and emotions collide and we're just lucky if we get a tenth of what we want and need.

Kiss the ass of whatever you believe made you meet your SO in the first place if you've ever loved anyone.

 

[Netzach]

Since I consider babies and children to be human beings, I don't think that they should be created to be a 'gift' to someone else, whether out of love or D/s or whatnot.

As someone who was dumped into the world to win a man back, I have to concur. The only valid reason to want children is to want CHILDREN not to bond with your S/o or be a kid again or any of the hundreds of horse shit reasons adults come up with.

 

[nh23]

I cannot help it but hear someone says that submission is just an "attitude" makes me feel like all I do is just an attitude. When you love someone thats a attitude as well? heh

If my Master told me I am the way I am just cuz of my attitude I would prolly tell him, I am sorry but I am not an "attitude". What I feel is not just an "attitude" and what I do for you or with you is neither just an "attitude".

When you love someone or submit to someone its not just cuz you picked up this attitude to love him. You love him just because. Because you love him. You submit to someone because you love him or trust him as well, not because you have the right attitude to do so LOL.

You can love someone and still have a bad attitude at times. You can submit to someone and still have the bad attitude at times as well. For me is submiting to my Sir giving myself to him, its not just an attitude. Its a decision I made after I find out if he's all I need same as if I am all he needs from me. I know if we mesh well or not so I know if I can give myself to him and not regret it 10 mins after.

You could get hurt real bad while some BDSM practics I think and you still give yaself to him in trust he won't hurt you or damage your body or emotions. Its a gift cuz theres a risk in what you offering. Once you're bound theres not much you can do to stop someone to do with you as they damn please and for me give myself to someone like this is a gift and its nothing someone would or should do lightly or just cuz he have the right attitude lol.

I think its a gift and one should think very well before offering it to someone. You can let someone play with you, like nh23 did when Sir_Winston gave her some cupping. Thats what I see as attitude yes. Attitude to let someone use her. But honestly I dont see submission as being willing to let someone give you what you enjoy. I see submission as something so much deeper than just an "attitude".

When I submit to my Sir he's giving me things I like same as things I don't like that much when I am being bitch and I know once I will get into his hands irl he will use me in in a raw animalistic way. I might get lots of what I want but I will also get alot of what he needs and want from me. I know he would use me way I wouldn't forget that soon. He loves me and I know he wouldn't hurt me for real, but he's a sadist and he would surely give me a hard time, I know he would and I want it with all of my being cuz I know its what he want and needs from me, I know its what he crave for and I wanna give it to him, I wanna let him use me so he could satisfy his needs on me whatever it takes, I will take it.

I don't really think its smart to let an sadist use you just cuz you think you have the right attitude. It needs devotion, comitment, trust and it needs YOU being willing to take whatever he damn please to do with you. It needs submission yes, deep submission I think. I wouldn't go for this just cuz of some attitude I might have, that would be just stupid lol.

I can imagine a sub whos willing to do things for someone just cuz she just decided she will go for it and she have that kind of attitude and then I can imagine a sub whos there for her Sir to do with her as he please just because she dunno different. Shes not like that cuz of her attitude, not at all. She's like that cuz she have an incredible need to satisfy her Master. It's deep inside of her, the need to please him whatever it takes. The longing to satisfy him and let him use her for it no matter he might do to her.

Maybe its a mind set of a sub and a slave I dunno, I am surely my Master's slave and theres nuthing I wouldn't take for him and it iss not a matter of attitude at all. I crave it and I need it same as he crave to take it from me and satisfy his needs on me. It's an powerful exchange and I really think to give myself to someone this deeply is a gift, same as what he does for me and gives me is a gift.

I often think of the way I am and I see myself as some kind of lil scared animal whos runing thro the forest. Theres a beast in the forest and my nature tells me to hide away from the lion which could kill me with one bite. Do you know what dogs does when they wanna show you their submision? They lay on their back.

I do the same with my Sir. I lay on my back just like the dog and wait whats gonna happen. I know he might come to me and bite his teeths right into my neck and feed on my blood. I would still lay there and let him do that tho. I often feel his animalistic need to give me a lesson and all I can say is just "I am here for you Sir. Do with me as you please. Use me to satisfy your need, I am here to ease your hunger whatever it might take."

And he loves it yes. He loves when I am like this. Its not an attitude tho, its the way I am, I dunno be different and he loves it and sees it as a gift. And I am thankful I can give it to him and see him satisfied. See my Sir satisfied gives me so much of pleasure, way much more than my own satisfaction. I crave it and need it. I need to satisfy the beast in him and I feel its what I was born for. I was born to serve and please and I love to provide satisfacion to my Sir. Giving it and receving it, both of it is a gift for me.

Your example with Sir W..it's called bottoming. Totally different thing. Bottoming and submitting are not one in the same. It would be the same if your Sir had you bottom to someone more experienced to teach him how to use a cane, or a flogger for example. You wouldn't be submitting to that person.

As far as Bunny and I seeing BDSM in a cold way, I disagree. I love just like everyone else. I just don't feel the need to make it into a romance novel. I don't see it as being cold. I see it as reality.

And I never said anything about attitude. I see it as a personality trait. Totally different. It's in my nature. It's a part of who I am. If I had to work at being submissive, or work at being something I'm not..then I guess I would call it a gift.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm totally able to enjoy, cherish and adore M without slapping some kind of a commodity-thinking thing onto it, at least some of the time. I mean I know I'm a consumer if you really map it out, but I still have some shred of Marxist idealism that says even people who want to get fucked up the butt by me are not commodities.

I think I'm a perfectly kick ass person and partner, but relationships are work and liabilities and hard as often as easy and effort. No one has made me as upset or as happy as my husband - is he giving me a gift? I think the universe is giving me a gift, he's just it. I think it's really arrogant to think we are our own to give and take and move around and have this wonderful sense of control in picking who we run into and who we open up to- fate and people and emotions collide and we're just lucky if we get a tenth of what we want and need.

Kiss the ass of whatever you believe made you meet your SO in the first place if you've ever loved anyone.

I actually don't think of it in a commodity sense as many of the gifts I have given over the years have not rested on economics, and have been made with my own hands as opposed to bought in a shop. And yes, I often say the universe sent us to each other at the right time, though we both played an active role in making that happen by not leaving it up to luck, fate or whatever to meet a partner....lol, unfortunately F is still in a place where he mourns the years before we met and were not together which IMO would have likely meant it would all have been lost or bypassed if we had met earlier....everything has a time and place, it was the right time and place for us just when it did happen, earlier would have been too soon, later too late.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I love just like everyone else. I just don't feel the need to make it into a romance novel. I don't see it as being cold. I see it as reality.

I actually think we all love differently. Some people are very private about it, and even behind closed doors have many boundaries etc., which have to remain in place for the relatiopnship to survive. Others like F and I are deeply passionate and though we are not loud or overly demonstrative in public, most times people see and remark on the depth of what we have and how happy we are, and in private there are absolutely no boundaries between us. That passion extends to make for many fiery moments, both good and bad, but above all, F is the most romantic of the two of us which is the complete opposite to who he was before we met.

LOL, his friends are astounded at the difference in him as compared to his other relationships, his openly romantic gestures, his words, his emotional response, his commitment...it is like night and day and something he says he has no doubt he could not experience with anyone else to this intensity and depth. I love it and have no illusions that what makes this relationship different from our past relationships is because it is a great romance with all the highs and lows of those incredible romance novels where love exists no matter what we look like, behave like, feel like, fight against, compromise over, win and lose, it just is always there and gives us the security we only ever dared dream of before. I also don't believe everyone is fortunate enough to find a partner they can experience this with, but I sure wish they could as it really is divine bliss. sugar overdose over!

Catalina

 

[nh23]

I actually think we all love differently. Some people are very private about it, and even behind closed doors have many boundaries etc., which have to remain in place for the relatiopnship to survive. Others like F and I are deeply passionate and though we are not loud or overly demonstrative in public, most times people see and remark on the depth of what we have and how happy we are, and in private there are absolutely no boundaries between us. That passion extends to make for many fiery moments, both good and bad, but above all, F is the most romantic of the two of us which is the complete opposite to who he was before we met.

LOL, his friends are astounded at the difference in him as compared to his other relationships, his openly romantic gestures, his words, his emotional response, his commitment...it is like night and day and something he says he has no doubt he could not experience with anyone else to this intensity and depth. I love it and have no illusions that what makes this relationship different from our past relationships is because it is a great romance with all the highs and lows of those incredible romance novels where love exists no matter what we look like, behave like, feel like, fight against, compromise over, win and lose, it just is always there and gives us the security we only ever dared dream of before. I also don't believe everyone is fortunate enough to find a partner they can experience this with, but I sure wish they could as it really is divine bliss. sugar overdose over!

Catalina

Yeah, from your posts you and F seem to have the perfect life. Good for you. Remind me if I'm ever in your area to bow down and kiss both your ass's. It'll be my only chance at ever meeting two people who are so perfect in every way.

 

[Netzach]

I am not familiar with Romance novels, but don't they kind of drop off the narrative after they finally are able to be together? I mean isn't that the end of the story, they get together and overcome the obstacles to doing that?

People don't sustain that, no matter what they may um, say, because you CAN'T sustain that and live your life. People in Romance novels are shockingly devoid of jobs, they tend to be heiresses and such because those things tend to dull the intensity.

I've had one relationship of Romance novel intensity ever. An illicit affair. Because without the will/we won't/we tension you have something else altogether.

They're not functional healthy models for relationships. They're juicy because they're not.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Your example with Sir W..it's called bottoming. Totally different thing. Bottoming and submitting are not one in the same. It would be the same if your Sir had you bottom to someone more experienced to teach him how to use a cane, or a flogger for example. You wouldn't be submitting to that person.

As far as Bunny and I seeing BDSM in a cold way, I disagree. I love just like everyone else. I just don't feel the need to make it into a romance novel. I don't see it as being cold. I see it as reality.

And I never said anything about attitude. I see it as a personality trait. Totally different. It's in my nature. It's a part of who I am. If I had to work at being submissive, or work at being something I'm not..then I guess I would call it a gift.

I see.

Anyways, we won't ever see things the same way and it's okay. What works for you and your Sir works for you. My Sir see submission as a gift and somehow it makes me happy to see it the same way. Nuthing wrong with you seeing things different than me, thats life I guess.

 

[Netzach]

It's funny that you mention handmade gifts, because I'm about to go make my living today at a craft fair selling lovingly handmade jewelry. Anything someone wants is a commodity. Taking a trait in isolation, whether it's submission or great tits and going "wow, this is super desireable, I better give it out only to people who deserve it" is a commodity mentality.

 

[Netzach]

I actually think we all love differently. Some people are very private about it, and even behind closed doors have many boundaries etc., which have to remain in place for the relatiopnship to survive. Others like F and I are deeply passionate and though we are not loud or overly demonstrative in public, most times people see and remark on the depth of what we have and how happy we are, and in private there are absolutely no boundaries between us. That passion extends to make for many fiery moments, both good and bad, but above all, F is the most romantic of the two of us which is the complete opposite to who he was before we met.

LOL, his friends are astounded at the difference in him as compared to his other relationships, his openly romantic gestures, his words, his emotional response, his commitment...it is like night and day and something he says he has no doubt he could not experience with anyone else to this intensity and depth. I love it and have no illusions that what makes this relationship different from our past relationships is because it is a great romance with all the highs and lows of those incredible romance novels where love exists no matter what we look like, behave like, feel like, fight against, compromise over, win and lose, it just is always there and gives us the security we only ever dared dream of before. I also don't believe everyone is fortunate enough to find a partner they can experience this with, but I sure wish they could as it really is divine bliss. sugar overdose over!

Catalina

How would you know what anyone else's most private life is like?

Honestly I have no conclusions about how anyone else loves or doesn't or cares or doesn't becaue the human tendency to say one thing and do something different knows no bounds. If Kinsey was stymied by this I sure the fuck am.

 

[nh23]

It's funny that you mention handmade gifts, because I'm about to go make my living today at a craft fair selling lovingly handmade jewelry. Anything someone wants is a commodity. Taking a trait in isolation, whether it's submission or great tits and going "wow, this is super desireable, I better give it out only to people who deserve it" is a commodity mentality.

I agree...

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am not familiar with Romance novels, but don't they kind of drop off the narrative after they finally are able to be together? I mean isn't that the end of the story, they get together and overcome the obstacles to doing that?

People don't sustain that, no matter what they may um, say, because you CAN'T sustain that and live your life. People in Romance novels are shockingly devoid of jobs, they tend to be heiresses and such because those things tend to dull the intensity.

I've had one relationship of Romance novel intensity ever. An illicit affair. Because without the will/we won't/we tension you have something else altogether.

They're not functional healthy models for relationships. They're juicy because they're not.

Really? They're not healthy models for relationship, not sustainable? And yet you are not familiar with the genre you say but you feel you know what they are about and like? LOL, only if you read the Mills & Boon variety which I avoided all my life like the plague after reading 2 and just about throwing up in the short 5 minutes it took to read them...historical romance of the higher calibre (well at least the ones I read which were best sellers when I was in my teens-20's) OTOH have many highs and lows, historical fact, and usually the realisation or hint a couple are in love is only the beginning of the whole story. It always amuses me that people have this view that romantic storylines are low quality stories, writing, acting which they must avoid any contact with at all costs in case they are mistaken for being ignorant, lower intelligence or something.

What is so frightening about stories based on love, or love itself as opposed to killing, hatred, greed, finacial domination, betrayal, and invading aliens? Some of what are considered to be the best novels and writing in the world are romantic stories of love won and/or lost. Some of the greatest people in history have great love stories of their own which were all too real and the backbone of their lives and success. If there was more love in the world there might not be so many people mourning their dead sons and daughters/spouses/paents, so many people filled with hatred and bitterness, so many obsessed with money and all it can buy, and so many unable to accept you can love another for all their imperfections and it can actualy enhance you and your life, not poison it.

As to it being unsustainable, I disagree because I am living it and we are going on for our 6th year now with more passion, love, intensity and desire every year, every day (and we are not the only ones doing so)...and why I say I could not do poly without losing this as yes, it is unsustainable if you are involved with more than one partner as it is simply physically, time wise, psychologically and emotionally impossible to give to and receive so much from more than one person and relationship...it takes energy, it takes commitment, it takes time, and it takes patience and understanding, not to mention tolerance of another's idiosyncracies which may not always perfectly match your own, but like the saying goes, for me 'a bird in the hand is worth way more than 2 (or more) in the bush...I need the intensity, I need the passion, I need the love.


Catalina