Submission it's a lifestyle and not kinky.

[Lizzie_Borden]

I am ALLLLLL for this particular "phoniness." I encourage it. A fad of thinking you might be gay? It's a very, very good thing. It ought to be part of every teen's sexual awakening, that month or year of wondering which way you swing. Hetero ought not be such an automatic default, 80% of all teens ought not to assume they are het.

I had a few times when I was 16/17 or so, where I wondered. Mostly I was spooked that I wasn't yet into liking boys like my friends were, so I started wondering if I liked girls. It was rather disconcerting to find I didn't because I was rather anxious to fill that gap in my psyche.

It should be encouraged, definitely, to wonder which way you swing, and to explore it. It's a bit scary though when you try, and find you're not swinging anywhere.

But patience won the day, and a few years after that, I worked myself out.

Anyways.

That leaves me wondering though. It's Sunday morning, so I can really only think of one example of a gay couple on tv right now. I know it's realistic (still) to show them being faced with some bigotry and overcoming it, but I wonder if seeing that would put teenage kids off exploring? If they're reminded of the fact that they still have to deal with that sort of thing? If they'd decide it wasn't worth the hassle?

Or, does it being 'trendy' or a 'fad' make it a bit easier for them to discover themselves without sticking out like the proverbial thumb and thus gain some acceptance that way?

 

[FurryFury]

Okay. I'm feeling you on this now.

I KNOW that if I'd had more awareness of options I'd have done a lot more. I wish I had. I tell that to my kids.

Societally it may well be a good sign.

The truth is, I never did understand the greater percentage of teens when I was one. They all seemed so surface.

As a mom, I really want my kids to find people who aren't and it is NOT easy.

Plus I wonder, other than sexual and other experimentation, which might be good, where will this all lead? Very few are talking about careers, goals, and so on.

And again, I say; So what? You can't expect maturity or a secure identity from immature humans. You cannot expect them to know who they are yet. They are just beginning to shape themselves. (It gives me so much pleasure to watch the young adults around me!)

And let me repeat: I grew up in a time when it was NOT generally "faddish to be bi," and outside of the precious lucky school I went to at the end-- I have experienced my share of homophobia and bigotry.

And therefore, I say;

It is, trust me on this, a far, far, better thing, and I am not just whistling Dixie here, that straight people succumb to a fad, if fad it be, and pretend to be bisexual-- even if they are deluding themselves-- because, you see, it potentially makes my situation that little bit less fraught with worry and danger.

I am ALLLLLL for this particular "phoniness." I encourage it. A fad of thinking you might be gay? It's a very, very good thing. It ought to be part of every teen's sexual awakening, that month or year of wondering which way you swing. Hetero ought not be such an automatic default, 80% of all teens ought not to assume they are het. When I said "personality trait" I guess I meant "orientation." Someone who orients bisexual should not need to demonstrate their bisexuality to prove it to you. They may or may not need to prove it to themselves. It could remain latent forever. It could pop up in a more emphatic manner when the person is 30 years old-- or 53.

I don't think falseness is any more out of control now than it was forty-five years ago, hon. It's just that you are seeing it now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I had a few times when I was 16/17 or so, where I wondered. Mostly I was spooked that I wasn't yet into liking boys like my friends were, so I started wondering if I liked girls. It was rather disconcerting to find I didn't because I was rather anxious to fill that gap in my psyche.

It should be encouraged, definitely, to wonder which way you swing, and to explore it. It's a bit scary though when you try, and find you're not swinging anywhere.

But patience won the day, and a few years after that, I worked myself out.

Anyways.

That leaves me wondering though. It's Sunday morning, so I can really only think of one example of a gay couple on tv right now. I know it's realistic (still) to show them being faced with some bigotry and overcoming it, but I wonder if seeing that would put teenage kids off exploring? If they're reminded of the fact that they still have to deal with that sort of thing? If they'd decide it wasn't worth the hassle?

It would be nice if homophobia weren't the default problem a fictional gay couple had to face.

"Okay, so we'll have this gay couple and in the third season the subplot will be all about them. Wow yeah, that's so edgy! Hmm... Oh, I got it! Homophobia! The stress will nearly tear them apart. And one of them will end up in the hospital for the reconciliation. Damn, we might even get a Lambda award!"

And then the producers erase the gay subplot anyway.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were two gay couples on TV right now? Or five? And maybe one gay person could be a very low-key, very self-aware lawyer type. One could be a teacher. One could be a drama queen. One could be a car mechanic. One couple could be... lesbians! One couple could-- not make it, one could die of old age still happy together. One couple might never, ever encounter homophobia at all.

You know-- show a spectrum of gay people, the way we see a spectrum of straight people.

Or, does it being 'trendy' or a 'fad' make it a bit easier for them to discover themselves without sticking out like the proverbial thumb and thus gain some acceptance that way?

yes.

 

[FurryFury]

I've been watching my girl trying out dating girls in today's society. So this is really interesting to me for that reason as well.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Stella, i think perhaps you are imagining a warmer and fuzzier vision of things than what actually exists. we are not talking about genuine curiosity, uncertainty and exploration here...those are all healthy and good. we are talking about the desperate need/desire to fit in, to be popular, to be considered desirable...at all costs. to the point of denying and even losing yourself. how is that good for anyone?

when i was in college, the female "bi" fad was just budding. being an extremely insecure person with very low self-esteem, i temporarily succumbed to it. i claimed to be "bi-curious." i was not. i had zero sexual or romantic interest in other females...i knew that i was very much straight and that was that. however if i did not claim an interest in bisexuality, my "friends" would find me backwards and uptight. as it was the very first time i had had a social circle of any kind, i was desperate to hold on to it. so yeah, i talked the talk. then one night at a frat party a girl came up to me wanting to dance...not from a distance, but tight and grinding as i would only be comfortable doing with a man. but i played along, because everyone was watching, and i was supposedly "bi curious." then she kissed me...tongue and all. i was horrified and repulsed, but tried to keep up the front until the song was over, when i just left the party altogether.

didn't sleep well that night. and for a long time after i felt really ashamed and disgusted with myself. i wish to this day that that kiss, that dance never happened. it only proved that i was willing to degrade myself just to be considered "cool" by others. i can only imagine the way a fake "bi" young woman would feel after actually going "all the way."

do you really want young people to have to deal with that kind of internal strife and regret?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

yes.

I can absolutely see how it would work too. Fakeness and faddishness leading to acceptance through a gradual shift in perceptions. Fakeness and faddishness slowly leading to a dawning self realisation. Pretending something long enough that it doesn't seem strange anymore, and is then acceptable.

 

[FurryFury]

Yes! This is what I was trying to get across! You totally said it better though.

Stella, i think perhaps you are imagining a warmer and fuzzier vision of things than what actually exists. we are not talking about genuine curiosity, uncertainty and exploration here...those are all healthy and good. we are talking about the desperate need/desire to fit in, to be popular, to be considered desirable...at all costs. to the point of denying and even losing yourself. how is that good for anyone?

when i was in college, the female "bi" fad was just budding. being an extremely insecure person with very low self-esteem, i temporarily succumbed to it. i claimed to be "bi-curious." i was not. i had zero sexual or romantic interest in other females...i knew that i was very much straight and that was that. however if i did not claim an interest in bisexuality, my "friends" would find me backwards and uptight. as it was the very first time i had had a social circle of any kind, i was desperate to hold on to it. so yeah, i talked the talk. then one night at a frat party a girl came up to me wanting to dance...not from a distance, but tight and grinding as i would only be comfortable doing with a man. but i played along, because everyone was watching, and i was supposedly "bi curious." then she kissed me...tongue and all. i was horrified and repulsed, but tried to keep up the front until the song was over, when i just left the party altogether.

didn't sleep well that night. and for a long time after i felt really ashamed and disgusted with myself. i wish to this day that that kiss, that dance never happened. it only proved that i was willing to degrade myself just to be considered "cool" by others. i can only imagine the way a fake "bi" young woman would feel after actually going "all the way."

do you really want young people to have to deal with that kind of internal strife and regret?

 

[Stella_Omega]

do you really want young people to have to deal with that kind of internal strife and regret?

Honey, there is absolutely no way to prevent teens from experiencing internal strife and regret, one way or another. Teens do stupid things. that's why we don't call them "adults."

But... Think about this;

A tongue kiss from a girl fills you with infinite shame and loathing however many years later?

While being starved and dry-fucked in the ass by a man is no biggie?

Maybe it's time you did some re-assessment on those memories of yours?

 

[FurryFury]

Also an great point.

Honey, there is absolutely no way to prevent teens from experiencing internal strife and regret, one way or another. Teens do stupid things. that's why we don't call them "adults." <snip>

 

[ownedsubgal]

Honey, there is absolutely no way to prevent teens from experiencing internal strife and regret, one way or another. Teens do stupid things. that's why we don't call them "adults."

But... Think about this;

A tongue kiss from a girl fills you with infinite shame and loathing however many years later?

While being starved and dry-fucked in the ass by a man is no biggie?

Maybe it's time you did some re-assessment on those memories of yours?

there's nothing to re-assess...it's the difference between being true to yourself and not, between lying to yourself and accepting yourself. so yeah, that kiss still really really bothers me. the dry ass-fucking i was over before my bum healed...because it was not a lie.

 

[KoPilot]

I had a few times when I was 16/17 or so, where I wondered. Mostly I was spooked that I wasn't yet into liking boys like my friends were, so I started wondering if I liked girls. It was rather disconcerting to find I didn't because I was rather anxious to fill that gap in my psyche.

It should be encouraged, definitely, to wonder which way you swing, and to explore it. It's a bit scary though when you try, and find you're not swinging anywhere.

But patience won the day, and a few years after that, I worked myself out.

Anyways.

That leaves me wondering though. It's Sunday morning, so I can really only think of one example of a gay couple on tv right now. I know it's realistic (still) to show them being faced with some bigotry and overcoming it, but I wonder if seeing that would put teenage kids off exploring? If they're reminded of the fact that they still have to deal with that sort of thing? If they'd decide it wasn't worth the hassle?

Or, does it being 'trendy' or a 'fad' make it a bit easier for them to discover themselves without sticking out like the proverbial thumb and thus gain some acceptance that way?

Ugh, this EXACT thing happened to me in middle school. Coupled with a bad first experience with a guy (professed his love to me when I barely knew him, and then turned into a bit of a stalker for a while), I had a very bad taste left in my mouth about the whole being into dudes thing. What was my problem? Why... I had to be gay, of course! That was the only explanation! Funny that it never occurred to me that I was probably just rather asexual.

Now if only asexuality could be taken as seriously as homosexuality these days.

 

[FurryFury]

Ugh, this EXACT thing happened to me in middle school. Coupled with a bad first experience with a guy (professed his love to me when I barely knew him, and then turned into a bit of a stalker for a while), I had a very bad taste left in my mouth about the whole being into dudes thing. What was my problem? Why... I had to be gay, of course! That was the only explanation! Funny that it never occurred to me that I was probably just rather asexual.

Now if only asexuality could be taken as seriously as homosexuality these days.

Swear to God, as a parent that would scare me more than most sexualities.

 

[Stella_Omega]

there's nothing to re-assess...it's the difference between being true to yourself and not, between lying to yourself and accepting yourself. so yeah, that kiss still really really bothers me. the dry ass-fucking i was over before my bum healed...because it was not a lie.

Um... Okay.

However, I will selfishly restate that, overall, GLBT comfort in the straight world is more important to me than your single unhappy experience. I can't do a thing to help you feel better about your hideous mistake. But I am glad that you grew up in a world where that particular mistake could be made -- preferably by someone other than you-- without bloody mayhem following, yanno?

Now if only asexuality could be taken as seriously as homosexuality these days.

This blog has a lot of Aces links;
http://theonepercentclub.blogspot.com/

 

[BiBunny]

Everybody's not bi, gay, queer, or otherwise not straight. And that's ok. There's nothing wrong with that at all. What irks the piss out of me are the ones who claim to be bi or whatever, and then you find out all they really wanna do is use you for sex while their husband/boyfriend/Dom/Master/whathaveyou directs his own personal faux-lesbian porno.

You are not bi. Sit your ass down and shut up now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Everybody's not bi, gay, queer, or otherwise not straight. And that's ok. There's nothing wrong with that at all. What irks the piss out of me are the ones who claim to be bi or whatever, and then you find out all they really wanna do is use you for sex while their husband/boyfriend/Dom/Master/whathaveyou directs his own personal faux-lesbian porno.

You are not bi. Sit your ass down and shut up now.

Yeah, they are, enough to be naked with you at least... They are not respectful-- that's a whole 'nother issue.

 

[KoPilot]

Swear to God, as a parent that would scare me more than most sexualities.

LOL. Yeah, gubbye grandchildren~

I'm not wholly asexual, just... way more than the average bear, I guess. I don't really masturbate that often, and don't place a lot of emphasis on climaxing during sex. I luurve sex, but I'm rarely disappointed if I don't hit the big O. I also never fantasize about people other than S.

It is very possible to be sexually satisfied without being sexually satisfied. :B

 

[VelvetSin]

I'm cleaning house, to Mr's standards.

That's definitely not kinky.

I spent a few hours last weekend doing this. It can be kinky fun depending on whether there is an audience and dress code. Just sayin'.

Plus I wonder, other than sexual and other experimentation, which might be good, where will this all lead? Very few are talking about careers, goals, and so on.

I'll give my perspective on it for where it might be beneficial later in life. I initially recognized the complaint about fake bi-curiosity because I succumbed to the fad in college (aka, the testing grounds!) and though I was one of the annoying ones for a period of time, recognize now that can be misleading and probably annoying to those truly inclined.

I claimed to be bi-curious but was pretty sure I wasn't, but hey, it was the cool thing to do, so I did too. I found women attractive but knew that was about as far as it went. Like OSG, I had a few dancefloor kisses at parties mainly because it was the cool thing to do, all the while not feeling the spark, but decided maybe it was because I wasn't with someone I was interested in because I didn't get that repulsed feeling OSG described but also knew the only thing that I did enjoy were the appreciative whistles from the (male) onlookers. Then I found someone that I related to more and we really experimented (well, I did, she knew what she was doing) and I realized it just wasn't my thing at all. Thankfully she was very understanding and caring, and we became much better platonic friends. So, lesson learned, I moved on with life thinking it was just a brief phase.

Until today's discussion, I didn't really think that experience marked me other than knowing what does and doesn't work for me, but I do think it ultimately made a mark. I came from a fairly straight-laced family, and gay tolerance was not taught or encouraged. Hatred wasn't either but if I had an openly gay friend in high school, I doubt my dad would have welcomed him/her to dinner (and if he knew I'd experimented at one point, whew). After some thought today though, I think that brief period and that experience did open my mind to the concept that it isn't some horrible evil thing only horrible evil people do.

One of my bosses was lesbian a few years ago until she moved to a different company. She had a reputation I never saw as deserved and we got along very well. When she put in her notice, I fondly remember a conversation we had where she mentioned I was one of the only people that treated her with respect. She recommended me as her replacement to the higher-ups, and that recommendation helped quite a bit in my getting the promotion I did to the job I have now and a much larger paycheck. Mostly, I think much of that has to do with the fact that many people in the company at that time were douchebags, but I wonder how much that brief "phase" affected my outlook and ability to judge people of any preference by merit and not by a less-than-tolerant upbringing. I couldn't say how much of that I would have gotten past on my own as I entered adulthood and realized my parents' teachings were backward or how much of that had to do with that phase, but I think it helped give perspective I didn't have until then.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Yeah, they are, enough to be naked with you at least... They are not respectful-- that's a whole 'nother issue.

actions do not a sexuality make. if Daddy commanded me to have sex with another woman, i would do it...does that make me to any degree bisexual? Bunny makes a great point, in that you are not just hurting yourself by lying about who you are...you are hurting all who genuinely identify with the very thing you are pretending to be.

where is the positive for the individual, and where is the positive for a particular sexual "community?" Stella, do you want mainstream acceptance of your sexuality to be based on completely false and inaccurate representations? do you want the mainstream image of your sexuality to be defined by those who only mimic it?

hey, i would loooove to see D/s accepted in popular society. it would be awesome to have the message out there that controlling or being controlled within a personal relationship does not automatically equate to some lifetime movie. but you have about a ton of folks out there falsely claiming the labels, because they find it hip or quirky or whatever, and based on their very visible representation your average "vanilla" person today defines a submissive as "someone who likes being spanked and whipped and stuff." that is NOT helping the cause, it is hurting it. and dag nabbit it sucks!!


(sorry, have really bad cramps and no advil )

 

[ownedsubgal]

LOL. Yeah, gubbye grandchildren~

I'm not wholly asexual, just... way more than the average bear, I guess. I don't really masturbate that often, and don't place a lot of emphasis on climaxing during sex. I luurve sex, but I'm rarely disappointed if I don't hit the big O. I also never fantasize about people other than S.

It is very possible to be sexually satisfied without being sexually satisfied. :B

um, if that's the definition of asexual, then i am a flaming asexual!! lmbo

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I spent a few hours last weekend doing this. It can be kinky fun depending on whether there is an audience and dress code. Just sayin'.

Well, it's a sunshining day, so I have the doors open, I have my oldest jeans and t shirt on, and if anyone goes past, we'll they'll see me dusting, and rocking out to Queen's 'Fat Bottomed Girls.'

But then, spose, that could be a kink for someone...

 

[VelvetSin]

Well, it's a sunshining day, so I have the doors open, I have my oldest jeans and t shirt on, and if anyone goes past, we'll they'll see me dusting, and rocking out to Queen's 'Fat Bottomed Girls.'

But then, spose, that could be a kink for someone...

I'm sure someone out there would find that hot beyond belief. There's a kink for everything.

I was more thinking nude cleaning while Mister kicks back sipping a beer, tossing in an occasional "don't forget to dust that can way in the back of the cabinet." Dislike cleaning as much as I do, we have a cleaning lady come by once a week, but we don't pay her enough to give him that kind of show.

 

[Stella_Omega]

actions do not a sexuality make. if Daddy commanded me to have sex with another woman, i would do it...does that make me to any degree bisexual? Bunny makes a great point, in that you are not just hurting yourself by lying about who you are...you are hurting all who genuinely identify with the very thing you are pretending to be.

You fucking another woman because daddy told you to-- how, exactly, does that hurt me? Even if you had sex with me because your daddy told you to-- I sure would hope that I get you off, that would be my only concern.

where is the positive for the individual, and where is the positive for a particular sexual "community?" Stella, do you want mainstream acceptance of your sexuality to be based on completely false and inaccurate representations? do you want the mainstream image of your sexuality to be defined by those who only mimic it?

Who is going to mimic a butch leatherdyke with gender issues, huh?

I do NOT really care what particular mechanism slows down homophobia. I care that homophobia is made less common. People who romanticise my orientation-- that might be a little embarrassing, but also a little less life-threatening. Honestly, I think that's a good enough trade for right now.

hey, i would loooove to see D/s accepted in popular society. it would be awesome to have the message out there that controlling or being controlled within a personal relationship does not automatically equate to some lifetime movie. but you have about a ton of folks out there falsely claiming the labels, because they find it hip or quirky or whatever, and based on their very visible representation your average "vanilla" person today defines a submissive as "someone who likes being spanked and whipped and stuff." that is NOT helping the cause, it is hurting it. and dag nabbit it sucks!!


(sorry, have really bad cramps and no advil )

I have no damn clue why "Dom and "Sub" have become the default terms, honestly. I agree it's stupid and irritating-- mostly because there are so many other terms that work in more general ways.

I am not sure what the "cause" is, for you, though. You have your relationship, it's exactly the way you want it. What else do you want? Understanding from outsiders? NO relationship ever gets complete understanding from outsiders. Let them assume you "like to get spanked and stuff." It isn't perfect-- but it's a start.


I wish I could magically teleport you some NSAIDs .

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm sure someone out there would find that hot beyond belief. There's a kink for everything.

I was more thinking nude cleaning while Mister kicks back sipping a beer, tossing in an occasional "don't forget to dust that can way in the back of the cabinet." Dislike cleaning as much as I do, we have a cleaning lady come by once a week, but we don't pay her enough to give him that kind of show.

If I had a houscleaning sub, I would toss my dirty socks underneath the bed so I could watch their naked arse wiggle around while they tried to fish them out...

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

If I had a houscleaning sub, I would toss my dirty socks underneath the bed so I could watch their naked arse wiggle around while they tried to fish them out...

I'd like one of those too. Domesticity is not my thing.

Only I wouldn't tease them... I'd just show my appreciation in other ways.

 

[VelvetSin]

If I had a houscleaning sub, I would toss my dirty socks underneath the bed so I could watch their naked arse wiggle around while they tried to fish them out...

There were some precariously placed items in addition to dusty cans that weren't really dusty. I think he spent easily an hour trashing the place in preparation. Though I'm not a housecleaning sub, dangit. *shudders* Cleaning supplies are hell on the nails.