Submission it's a lifestyle and not kinky.

[BiBunny]

Yeah, they are, enough to be naked with you at least... They are not respectful-- that's a whole 'nother issue.

Ehhh...an exhibitionist does not a bisexual make, in my opinion.

 

[eastern sun]

I keep thinking that we're moving toward a time when everyone will identify their dominance/submissiveness in their dating profile on a 10-point scale. And like the bi-curious fad, we will have a full-on BDSM fad among both young people and adults in their mid-life crises.

In light of this conversation, should such a fad develop (if it hasn't already), do you think the BDSM boundaries (at the experimental activity level) should be guarded more closely in order to keep the inexperienced from being targets of predatory activity?

 

[FurryFury]

Great post, VelvetSin!

Thanks for sharing that with us.

FF

I spent a few hours last weekend doing this. It can be kinky fun depending on whether there is an audience and dress code. Just sayin'. <snip> I couldn't say how much of that I would have gotten past on my own as I entered adulthood and realized my parents' teachings were backward or how much of that had to do with that phase, but I think it helped give perspective I didn't have until then.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I am not sure what the "cause" is, for you, though. You have your relationship, it's exactly the way you want it. What else do you want? Understanding from outsiders? NO relationship ever gets complete understanding from outsiders. Let them assume you "like to get spanked and stuff." It isn't perfect-- but it's a start.


I wish I could magically teleport you some NSAIDs .

i hate when people assume i like to get spanked and stuff. cuz well, i don't like to get spanked and stuff. that's not what my life or relationship is about AT ALL. and forget about gaining acceptance or understanding of my particular relationship...i understand certain aspects of it can be tough for even other D/s folk to get behind...i would just be thrilled and delighted if authority based relationships in general could be accepted in the mainstream. if Dominance and submissiveness could be recognized as valid identities, not as mental defects OR kinks. that's why i was specific to say D/s...because i'm not talking about BDSM activities, or sexual turn-ons. so D/s is the "cause" i'm rallying behind, if you will.

wouldn't it be great if, on tv, you could see a relationship between a dominant male and submissive female, without it being some story about domestic violence and abuse? wouldn't it be great if, just out at the local grocery store, people could see a relationship between a dominant female and submissive male, and not think, "oh, there's a b**** and her hen-pecked husband?" hey, it might not happen in my lifetime, but i do have hope. "Big Love" for example is a pretty popular show, and it's a D/s relationship portrayed in a kinda/mostly positive light, lol. it's a step!

 

[Stella_Omega]

i hate when people assume i like to get spanked and stuff. cuz well, i don't like to get spanked and stuff. that's not what my life or relationship is about AT ALL. and forget about gaining acceptance or understanding of my particular relationship...i understand certain aspects of it can be tough for even other D/s folk to get behind...i would just be thrilled and delighted if authority based relationships in general could be accepted in the mainstream. if Dominance and submissiveness could be recognized as valid identities, not as mental defects OR kinks. that's why i was specific to say D/s...because i'm not talking about BDSM activities, or sexual turn-ons. so D/s is the "cause" i'm rallying behind, if you will.

I know. You will have misconceptions thrown in your face though, just as GLBT folk do. Even from sympathetic folk -- everyone has their own interpretation of everything. It's the nature of human society. Acceptance has its own price. For me, it's a tiny price to pay, this fad of being bi. You-- I foresee that you are going to be a very angry little osg when it comes "D/s fad" time, at all those people who GET IT WRONG!

wouldn't it be great if, on tv, you could see a relationship between a dominant male and submissive female, without it being some story about domestic violence and abuse? wouldn't it be great if, just out at the local grocery store, people could see a relationship between a dominant female and submissive male, and not think, "oh, there's a b**** and her hen-pecked husband?" hey, it might not happen in my lifetime, but i do have hope. "Big Love" for example is a pretty popular show, and it's a D/s relationship portrayed in a kinda/mostly positive light, lol. it's a step!

Yes, that would be great, just as I would love to see a gay couple portrayed without homophobia being part of the plot. At this time though, domestic abuse and homophobia are real and horrible problems that society has just begun to come to grips with. So it's going to take a while still.

 

[VelvetSin]

B read this thread and made some comments and said if I really wanted to share them, to just do it not because "my Master said to" but because he's not going to create an ID just to post to one thread.

As far as the terminology of kinky or way of life, he said so long as people enjoy what they do, it doesn't really matter what they call it. It's a debate that'll last until the end of time because everyone looks at it a different way, colored with their own previous life experiences. He said to call it 'peanut butter' if the word 'kinky' is upsetting somehow.


ETA: He agrees almost completely with Stella and was sharing the following as "full agreement" but damn him for trying to help.
Edited again to add because His little slut forgot to include: He assumed anyone literate enough to read this far into the thread would see the original thought merely echoed. No offense intended.

The fad issue is harmless in his opinion. While it may be annoying to those truly bisexual or homosexual or into BDSM (it is faddish already in his opinion), it causes no real harm. It makes the people "faking it" more likely to have an open mind if at least for a brief period of time, and an open mind has never hurt anyone. A fad in bisexuality may help some "closet" types explore that side of themselves without the usual societal squeamishness and discover something in themselves they would not have freed without it. A fad in getting healthy through diet and exercise makes people more health conscious, even if it's briefly, and that's a good thing. Most fads run a range from benign to helpful. Fads may be annoying to those involved beforehand because some feel it devalues whatever it is, but it usually does more good than harm by opening more peoples' minds to a concept. And if it's annoying, like all fads, they pass with time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

VS, tell your Master from me, that he should say; "As Stella-Omega pointed out..." before he parrots my words.



And he's right, too, about the rest of it. I might not exercise as hard as I did during my weight-lifting faddish period, but I do exercise more now, than before, and with better intent.

 

[sb2009]

In some ways, learning from the bottom up, so to speak...seems to be a natural way to learn, at least to me.

Like the apprentice system.

 

[VelvetSin]

VS, tell your Master from me, that he should say; "As Stella-Omega pointed out..." before he parrots my words.

That was my failure to include, not his. We were mainly discussing your posts and how I liked them. I did edit and include per his instructions this time, though.

 

[ownedsubgal]

You fucking another woman because daddy told you to-- how, exactly, does that hurt me? Even if you had sex with me because your daddy told you to-- I sure would hope that I get you off, that would be my only concern.

sorry, i meant to respond to this earlier. unless you have a serious sadistic streak (which is definitely not the vibe i get from you), surely you would not want to have sex with a person who clearly did not wish to have sex with you...with someone only doing what they have been told, trying to fight their way through, eyes closed and fighting back tears? heck, a lot of people are turned off just when their sexual partner is not enthusiastic...imagine how turned off they would be knowing their sexual partner is outright horrified and traumatized.

and that is the problem with turning a genuine sexual identity into a fad...you really do hurt people, on both sides. it's definitely not all about fun and innocent experimentation.

 

[Stella_Omega]

sorry, i meant to respond to this earlier. unless you have a serious sadistic streak (which is definitely not the vibe i get from you), surely you would not want to have sex with a person who clearly did not wish to have sex with you...with someone only doing what they have been told, trying to fight their way through, eyes closed and fighting back tears? heck, a lot of people are turned off just when their sexual partner is not enthusiastic...imagine how turned off they would be knowing their sexual partner is outright horrified and traumatized.

and that is the problem with turning a genuine sexual identity into a fad...you really do hurt people, on both sides. it's definitely not all about fun and innocent experimentation.

Ah. That's not you having sex, that's you being raped. That's YOUR DADDY hurting you, using me (or whatever woman) as his weapon of pain.

I doubt that I would be willing to use sex in quite that way, I prefer orgasms to tears. I adore genitorture, but as you say I don't have a massively sadistic streak. But... if I were aware of the situation, I could see myself participating in your rape. I don't post in the BDSM forum for no reason, you know. And you are owned.

If it were in a non-BDSM environment-- if I kissed a girl at a dance and discovered she was traumatised by it-- I would feel pretty damn angry and hurt because I don't normally like kissing the unwilling, and I would do my best to try to help her out. But I wouldn't blame the fad for her self-deception.

Nope-- a fad is just a fad. YOU, I repeat, YOU, are responsible for your own decision to go along with the fad or not. Just as YOU are ultimately responsible for your own rape, since YOU gave your daddy the authority to hand you over.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That was my failure to include, not his. We were mainly discussing your posts and how I liked them. I did edit and include per his instructions this time, though.

My ego has been soothed, thank you

 

[VelvetSin]

My ego has been soothed, thank you

Oh, thank you! (blushes)

 

[intothewoods]

Ideally, young people should be raised with enough self confidence to say no to something they're not comfortable with, but part of being a young person is making the mistake of doing something you'd rather not and then learning to establish a boundary.

I never really thought of the bisexual fad as a contrast to homophobia, for some reason, but I have to agree with Stella that it sounds preferable.

 

[JMohegan]

Ideally, young people should be raised with enough self confidence to say no to something they're not comfortable with, but part of being a young person is making the mistake of doing something you'd rather not and then learning to establish a boundary.

I never really thought of the bisexual fad as a contrast to homophobia, for some reason, but I have to agree with Stella that it sounds preferable.

Is it a fad for males yet, or just females? I haven't seen evidence of the former, but it's possible I'm out of the loop on that score.

With regard to current pressure on females to proclaim themselves bi or bi-curious, objections I've heard (from middle-aged parents) are prompted by the firm suspicion that the point of that pressure is to encourage behavior that pleases males. Not pressure not to be cool as in 'oh you're so open minded,' but pressure to be cool, as in hot to males.

In other words, it's a suspicion that the pressure to be bi is rooted, paradoxically, in one-sided heterosexual standards. Or rather: it's pressure to porn bi, not bi in the genuine sense.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Is it a fad for males yet, or just females? I haven't seen evidence of the former, but it's possible I'm out of the loop on that score.

With regard to current pressure on females to proclaim themselves bi or bi-curious, objections I've heard (from middle-aged parents) are prompted by the firm suspicion that the point of that pressure is to encourage behavior that pleases males. Not pressure not to be cool as in 'oh you're so open minded,' but pressure to be cool, as in hot to males.

In other words, it's a suspicion that the pressure to be bi is rooted, paradoxically, in one-sided heterosexual standards. Or rather: it's pressure to porn bi, not bi in the genuine sense.

That's a typically male-centric viewpoint.

It's like the men who want a Virgin who has been raised in a Harem, believing she would have never experienced an orgasm before feeling his magical dick.

Don't men know that girls masturbate????

In any case, a girl on girl kiss is experienced by the girls, and the girls may reach some new conclusions therebye.

Especially, if they kiss me.

 

[sb2009]

My uber activist queer friend tends to go on rants about "bar lesbians" because she knows it's just to get men/boys to pay attention to them. She has made out with many a woman in many a bar, though....but any guy made a pass at her for that woudln't come out a happy man.

 

[BiBunny]

Is it a fad for males yet, or just females? I haven't seen evidence of the former, but it's possible I'm out of the loop on that score.

With regard to current pressure on females to proclaim themselves bi or bi-curious, objections I've heard (from middle-aged parents) are prompted by the firm suspicion that the point of that pressure is to encourage behavior that pleases males. Not pressure not to be cool as in 'oh you're so open minded,' but pressure to be cool, as in hot to males.

In other words, it's a suspicion that the pressure to be bi is rooted, paradoxically, in one-sided heterosexual standards. Or rather: it's pressure to porn bi, not bi in the genuine sense.

Yes. The bold bit. I see it all the time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

My uber activist queer friend tends to go on rants about "bar lesbians" because she knows it's just to get men/boys to pay attention to them. She has made out with many a woman in many a bar, though....but any guy made a pass at her for that woudln't come out a happy man.

haha, yeah, I've met those girls.

I've had two different women get all the way home with me (their homes) before they backed out. A few women have gone the "First time, be easy on me route and I let them be pillow princesses. I'm not a stone butch but I know that escorting women home from the bars has its special hazards.

My het guy friends say I'm getting better odds than most men do!

 

[intothewoods]

Is it a fad for males yet, or just females? I haven't seen evidence of the former, but it's possible I'm out of the loop on that score.

With regard to current pressure on females to proclaim themselves bi or bi-curious, objections I've heard (from middle-aged parents) are prompted by the firm suspicion that the point of that pressure is to encourage behavior that pleases males. Not pressure not to be cool as in 'oh you're so open minded,' but pressure to be cool, as in hot to males.

In other words, it's a suspicion that the pressure to be bi is rooted, paradoxically, in one-sided heterosexual standards. Or rather: it's pressure to porn bi, not bi in the genuine sense.

Well, I don't think that pressure is anything new. I think there's some validity there, but I also think part of it is discomfort with female sexual desire.

As to men, I've definitely seen more male comfort with experimentation with other men. It's not at all as commonplace as female bisexuality, but it seems increased to me.

 

[FurryFury]

I know a lot of Bi young men not nearly as many as young women claiming to be Bi. I'd say it's probably 85% of ladies but 30% of gentlemen I know. I tend to believe that the guys are more "real" about it than the girls.

The that's probably partly because I'm involved in creating a safe places for GBLT teens. We are a family known for valuing tolerance locally.

FF

 

[BiBunny]

The that's probably partly because I'm involved in creating a safe places for GBLT teens. We are a family known for valuing tolerance locally.

FF

Bless you for that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I tend to believe that the guys are more "real" about it than the girls.

I do hope you can see the sexism inherent in statements like this one. I wish you could get over your judgementalism regarding young women's forms of exploration.

You are beginning to remind me of my highschool drama teacher who was exceptionally tolerant of the gay boy in our class-- and showed a lot of antipathy towards me, who wanted to hang out with him because he was the only other queer that I knew in school. *cough* ahem

By "real" do you mean more inclined to action rather than discussion? Yes, women do a lot of talking. And yes, talk is proverbially cheap-- that is to say, safe-- for women.

But you'll find a lot of cheap talk amongst men on the internet. Take a look at the GLBT forum here on lit, for instance.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Ideally, young people should be raised with enough self confidence to say no to something they're not comfortable with, but part of being a young person is making the mistake of doing something you'd rather not and then learning to establish a boundary.

and it's not limited to the young. i can think of more than a few 30 and 40-something yr old submissive women who desperately play the role of bi, because they do not believe they will be able to attract and keep a Dominant otherwise. it may sound stupid and desperate, but the reality is a lot of "dominant" men have come to expect bisexuality in submissives period, and will be more attracted to someone who claims that label. of course, the reality also is that the hooking up of phony and deluded people only leads to trainwreck relationships, but that's an afterthought i guess.

 

[FurryFury]

No. I mean I think more girls are saying it because they want to be cool and not because they believe they are Bi at all.

When guys say it, it's (as far as I can tell) not going to be a popularity increasing thing for them.

I'm sorry you feel I'm being judgmental. I'm just watching these teens I know. I run quite a few teen groups.

I don't care about anyone's sexuality. I'd just rather girls be truer to themselves about whatever they are rather than play games. Playing games is different from exploring and not knowing IMO.

My daugther is gay, btw. I have never cared if anyone is gay or not. I've always had gay friends of both sexes.

I do hope you can see the sexism inherent in statements like this one. I wish you could get over your judgementalism regarding young women's forms of exploration.

You are beginning to remind me of my highschool drama teacher who was exceptionally tolerant of the gay boy in our class-- and showed a lot of antipathy towards me, who wanted to hang out with him because he was the only other queer that I knew in school. *cough* ahem

By "real" do you mean more inclined to action rather than discussion? Yes, women do a lot of talking. And yes, talk is proverbially cheap-- that is to say, safe-- for women.

But you'll find a lot of cheap talk amongst men on the internet. Take a look at the GLBT forum here on lit, for instance.