The new #1

[daughter]

Pleasure U

How many times are you able to vote? I can only vote once per poem. I vote when poems hit the New Poem List on the site not the #1 spot. Voting is tracked by isps. Now unless someone is willing to go around to different pc's simply to vote, I'm afraid your conspiracy allegation doesn't fly.

How many poems stay in the #1 slot for any length of time? Pleasure U, this is a poetry forum on the net not a gurilla operation. Do you honestly believe that folks here are so zealous that they're waiting in the wings to vote stuff down?

You got voted down because more readers are reading and voting. The majority of readers aren't members on this site. You can count how many of us are active on this forum.

Poet, the majority of readers on this site love your style of writing. I fail to see why you're convinced that some hateful group is out to get you. Besides, wouldn't it be too obvious a tactic given the blow up? That would make the conspirators mean and dumb.

And for the record, Pleasure U you are spewing venom at the very community who made it their business to vote for you so that you might hit the list. Other than your friends outside Lit, it is us who watch new poems hit the sit and we do our best to vote and send feedback.


Be well.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Get a grip

Pleasureu

Here is my take on what happened, your friends on the board voted your poems to the list. That is all well and good. Your poems hit the list and the lit members and non- members at large get to vote. It might be possible that the 10 friends you rounded up to vote you up, could be outweighed by the people who don’t rate your poems as highly.

The fact that you came in pouting and whining did not net you many new fans. While you may be concerned with who and what the establishment is we are not. I suggest you wait till your poem gets to #1 save the page print it out and post it on your wall as proof that the Pleasureu faction can stand against the machine. Then again you could stop whining and actually join the poet community here. There is no savagery here just poetry discussion and feedback.

I don’t want to talk about your feelings, I don’t want talk about your girlfriend feelings, I don’t want to talk about your friends’ feelings. I want to talk about poetry. That is what I was doing addressing your poem. If you would like to talk about your poem I would love to discuss it. New, old, I don’t care. If you want to add rebuttal to my opinion of your poem great! Keep it to poetry not establishments and conspiracy and savagery. Get a grip! What are you talking about?

U.P.

 

[WickedEve]

pleasureu

daughter, tigerjen, SA Storm, Writer Dom, other poets I can't remember at the moment, and I removed our poems from the top list just so new poets to the site, like you, could have a chance at getting noticed. Does that sound like we are trying to vote you down? Well, does it!?!

WICKED EVE

 

[Blue Dolphin]

fey a grip

If one ,two ,or even three had disappeared, would a]have said ok.
But ALL five, they have been deliberately down voted, unquestionably so.
Coincedences do not comein fives like that, and notyhing anyone says will convince me otherwise.
It was a deliberate act of vandalism.

that in itself tells me the list is,and has been for a while a farce my friend.
thios is mt last word on the matter.
take care Sir

 

[Camille]

WOW

I thought I was on the general board for a minute.
Pleasureu, get over it listen to Wicked, these guys make room for you and if I remember correctly U.P. lead the charge. You're attacking the very folks who made it easier for you to get on the list.

U.P., daughter, Wicked and others keep inviting you to join the forum. Honey just who are you yellin at?

Cam

 

[Maid of Marvels]

Is the Complaint Department still open?

The King of Kink's latest poem Wiggling Nina skyrocketed to the #2 spot overnight and is now down at #77.

A plot, you say? A conspiracy? Someone playing favorites? Is it the Unmasked One??? (By the way, you can run from the red wave, but you can never hide, U.P.) Maybe it was SA trying to keep his up on top? herherher

I say death to the Phillistines!!

It's none of these things. Nope. Just the way the votes land, pleasureu.

REDWAVE was thrilled that one of his poems finally made it to the Top List, period. (Though I find it surprising that none of his others hit before now.)

I say take your moment in the sun and bask in it. Everybody looks better with a tan.

~Marvel

 

[Blue Dolphin]

Maid of Marvels

I had thought I had finished on this subject.
But, you are a nice lady,and I will respond.


It is now 1.30am here in England.
Six hours ago, a poem of mine was in at #1, now, it is not even in the top 100. need I say nore.
I also see that now somwthing I wrote weeks ago has made it,but,in all honestly,I doubt I will see it in another 6 hours.
there seems to now be a concerted effort to remove me.
the facts speak for them selves.
that is my final word.
take care dear lady,
Goodnight

 

[Masked Poet]

pleasureu

Your words soared to the heavens. Your poems too close to the sun. It is only reasonable that they would fall back to earth.
Treasure your moment when you and your written thoughts got high. And now, dear sir, quit yer belly achin'!

Masked Poet

 

[Naked Poet]

waves of pleasureu

Ladies and...well, Poets of all persuasions: I hereby present to you, with a perfect 5.00 and a perfect 10 votes the latest in a fertile string of erotic, ecstatic, resplendent extrusions...Enjoy.
Is there a draft in here?



As Silently, I Cry
by pleasureu ©

You lie there gently sleeping
This early morning dark
As post orgasmic memory
Accelerates the heart
I think of how you gripped me tight
As both we did explode
Resplendent there upon me
As thrusting shaft you rode.
Your body so did drain me
Extruding every drop
Engulfed by primal ecstasy
That never seemed to stop.

Yet now, I see you sleeping there,
In peace, with precious dream
Your beauty so personified
In all has ever been.
Was our love just one moment,
In rippled cosmic time
A slowly bursting bubble,
From sparkling glass of wine?
Or will it reign eternal now
Upon the astral plane?
Will lovers who as yet unborn,
Feel lifeblood flow again?

The dawn now slow approaches,
To wake you soon I must
Begone this night of passion now,
Away ye dreams of lust.
And yet my darling they will stay
Within my very soul
Embedded for eternity,
Now love has made me whole,
Reach out to gently wake you now
Soft kiss your crystal eye
Stroke softly on your silken cheek,
As silently, I cry

 

[Whispersecret]

You know, it's all in how you look at things. If you look at the Top List you'll see the number one poem as a score of 5. The one hundredth poem has a score of 4.09. That's not even a difference of one whole point. Talk about a close race.

So when you talk about a poem dropping from number one to off the list, well, it just isn't that hard to do.

I'll admit to having the same feelings. When the generous poets named above stopped voting on their poems to make room, I was one of the people who made the list for the first time. I was disheartened when my poems fell, almost immediately. Daughter is my witness that I even questioned if I had been purposely dinged. She calmly told me the same thing she said here. That when poems make the list they're suddenly exposed to harsher light. Most of the people who read my so called poetry before were probably fans already (of my prose.) Once my poems hit the list, they were fresh meat for all and sundry to vote upon. That's survival of the fittest, people. I now accept that.

I also accept the fact that I'm not the greatest poet on earth. I KNOW I'm a writer, but whether I'm a poet has yet to be decided, at least by me. I aspire and I'm learning. I wish more people would comment on my stuff. So far UP is the only one who's pointed out flaws. Oh, daughter once said something about line breaks, but I still don't know where my line breaks fell down.

But I ramble.

Now on the other side of the voting screen, I'm a pretty harsh critic. (Those of you who have read my commentary on individual poems already know this.) When I read a poem, I vote three if I think it's about average for the site.

I vote two if it's trite, cliche, stupid, or poorly written.

I have yet to vote one. I just can't make myself do it, even if I think a poem stinks.

I vote four if it's better than average.

I rarely vote five. A five poem has to grab me and hold me throughout the read and then knock me on my ass at the end. It has to be full of meaning AND be meticulously crafted with vibrant language and life.

So, odds are if your poem hits the top list and I haven't voted on it yet, you're probably getting a three from me, which would mean a drop in ratings if you debut with a set of 10 perfect fives.

Finally, I do my best to send feedback to poets. Often, its only a few sentences, but I figure even one sentence is better than nothing.

 

[Unmasked Poet]

It's all in the numbers

The numbers, the numbers! there is the devils hand in the numbers. Is not a kiss offered unjustly a slap to one face? Surley despite it softness the venom yet still find it's mark.

And so it with numbers, can there be perfection when one has bought the goodwell that manfacutered it? These are questions best left for philospheres and saints. Tis true the stain remains to shine dbrightly at the height of hubris.

The numbers, indeed there be witchcraft in the numbers

U.P.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Okay. I make an effort not to become snarly on the boards, but I've been distancing myself from this forum over the past weeks as I've grown increasingly annoyed and disturbed by the attitudes I've seen. I'm hoping you'll all indulge me while I say my piece.

Yes, vote totals changed immensely in the last couple of weeks. If you examine more closely, you'll see that many poems now have higher cummulative averages but fewer total votes. This is not an evil committed, but fraudulence outed and reversed, I would wager with complete confidence. Yet, it's been used as "evidence" of a voting conspiracy against poets. Rubbish, pure and simple.

Weeks ago, I turned off the voting on many of my older poems as a few people complained that the high percentage of older works on the list were keeping newer poets from appearing there. Now, I've turned them back on, as the attempts by myself and others to make the Toplist more inclusive and cede the spotlight seems to have led only to even more in-fighting and glory-hounding than there was before. I can't say that I've been impressed by the focus on writing and poetry discussion that I've been seeing here; I guess I would call this my passive protest.

Top spots aren't a given. Votes aren't a given. I've written poems which took weeks and even months to get 10 votes--much less with a high enough average to appear on The List. I've got month-old poems that aren't there yet, even with my name all over the Toplist; others have appeared for one day and then vanished into the ether. That's the way of the list. So be it. And may we all someday get used to it.

The only sure way to make sure poets get reads and feedback is to read and send feedback. The problem and the solution present themselves together, yet apparently the issue doesn't get resolved. Well, now my crap will be cluttering up the Sacred 100 again. So, either people will have to look elsewhere for unfamiliar work, poems will make their way onto the list at a slow but steady pace as they always have, and/or I'll get deluged with protest-votes. In any case, perhaps I'll have pushed a few people to seek out the New Lists and Randomizer function.

Do people give gratuitous 1 votes to secure a spot on the list for their own work? Probably. Having turned my voting back on, I'll likely be grumbling something to that effect to myself before long. But--Is it any more manipulative and under-handed than some of the other means people use--such as publicly undermining others, feedback grovelling and saturation? I don't know. And more to the point, I no longer care.

Honestly, this whole vote-scrabbling fiasco just makes everyone look bad. And, as this thread amply attests, it keeps us from doing what we're allegedly here to do: reading, writing, and discussing poetry. Shame on us all.

 

[mskittykatt]

copied this post from ask alice, i can't follow where this conversation is happening anymore...

Although I agree that the possibility of others voting up, or down a poem or story, is disturbing. I don’t believe this is the majority of the problem. I think that if it’s being done, it is on a smaller scale then people think, and is not actually making as big a difference as people want to think.
I think main problem is that when most people submit a poem or story for feedback and voting, what they are looking for isn’t a stroke of their ego that they may, or may not get from the “cruising” reader. Most are looking to the feedback for perspective, help to improve their writing, to check in and see where they are at today on the way to getting where they want to be. Those answers are not going to come, in this system, by the majority of the people who read and vote.
As for the voting. it would serve those pointing the fingers at the system of monitoring of IP addresses, to remember that AOL for one, changes your IP address each time you log on and off. This isn’t an infallible system, and we as authors are putting to much stock in feedback and votes that come from people who could care less where our periods and punctuation are, or what meter or rhyming scheme we used. If they can read it easily, and it made them feel, something, they vote.
We should be responsible for finding the support we need and/or want among ourselves, and as a community. We have feedback sections that have few people asking their peers for feedback specifically. When I first got here, I was told read this, read that and offer feedback to get feedback, be a part of us. Good words if we could ever get past the bickering. And a scarce few people, hold up the feedback threads. That, is where our attention should be.

 

[daughter]

Risia

I have been on both sides of the issue. I was the newbie who was convinced that the top list would give greater exposure and thus more feedback. You told me to keep it in perspective. The list does provide exposure, but we need to realize it is not the be all. I think the fact that more folks know my name from my participation here has drawn more readers to my work and many of those folks are sending me feedback. I'm not getting a lot of mail from unknown readers.

I am ashamed for any part I've played in the bickering. It has been frustrating. I think our discussions about poetry have been positive and helpful. It is distressing if in fact our discussions are failing to serve the growth and confidence of our members.

Risia, you have a clear, insightful voice. It disturbs me that the ruckus has kept you away. Now that is a loss. Like Whispersecret, you are more concerned with encouraging and helping than you are in gleaning praise for yourself. I hope in time, you will come back and share with us.

Be well.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Dillinger]

Re: discussion

Finally! Well said. Its nice to hear another person speak up with similar feelings to my own.

I have long been saying that people here tend to focus on the details at the expense of the whole. That a poem is not a collection of its parts but needs to be read as a whole. This is not to say that we all can't stand to improve. That our form and style couldn't use a bit of tweaking. That we shouldn't be aware of spelling and grammar - but, in my opinion, that seems to be the focus here rather then how the poem makes a person feel... react. That is the #1 thing... everything else is minor compared to that.

However - its easy to pick apart the pieces. And most people are lazy, so that's exactly what they do. Its much harder to try to get into the poem - to absorb it as a gestalt... to let it wash over you... and then to try and put those feelings into words that will encourage the poet.

I would love to see critics start with their overall impression - address what is good about the poem from a purely emotional point of view (or even what is bad about it - did they understand it - how did it make them feel - did it bring back memories - what kind of reaction did it invoke) and then... only then - address the details if they're so inclined. Of course, this would mean they would actually have to try and read the poem with an open mind on first read. And, its my opinion, that their analytical side is working overtime from the first word and they're ready to dissect it before they've even absorbed it.

Totally ass backwards as far as I'm concerned.

"Loving You, Is All I Want To Know
by pleasureu © "

I really liked this poem. I do try and take my own advice... I just read it with an open mind...

I will admit that this has not been one of my better weeks - I'm quite stressed and my health has been better - so I have to thank you for a few moments of pleasure. This poem made me smile... put me in that world of closeness, togetherness... love. Made me imagine myself in the arms of a lover... content, happy... no worries, just warmth and desire and pleasure. And has even left me with a warm afterglow as I let my mind wander into the world your poem invokes.

So - thank you. I needed that. Thank you...

Dill...

Firstly, I mus thank my dear friend Mayi for her support, and for telling me of the assasination of my work.

UP.
At least you got one thing right, this poem is a heartfelt expression of one persons love for another.
I may not fit into your classification system, do not use extended adjectives, nor do I paraphrase similies.
what I do sir, is write what I feel.
if that does not fit into your constricted visions of what poetry should be, then the problem is yours Sir, not mine.
Yes, I appreciate that this is a discussion thread, but, personally speaking i feel that you have devalued immeasureably what I was saying to this lady.

Fortunately,when I first sent this to her, prior to posting she was delighted with it, and, still remains so.
No doubt you could dissect each and everyone of my poems, with the same slashing blade that you ysed here.
Should you wish to do so, feel free, this is a discussion thread,and by posting my work,I am leaving my self open to this .
Does it concern me?
No.
I receive feedback, from those who have read my work, and I value that more than any words that have ever been written here.
Feedback that says
"Yes, I have been there, I too have cried,loved, laughed"
I receive thanks for expressing feelings in a way that those of us who would seem to bo obviously less intellectually gifted than yourself, can understand.
I write simply
And it is from the heart, even though you dispute that as well, the heart and the mind are inexcorably linked Sir.
The one good thing to come out of this is that at least now, the newer poets are gaining exposure, although I have no doubt that during the next few days my work will slowly slip from the list and disappear,as the establishment start to read and vote.
that is ok, I have been there, my friends, who, unbelievably like my work,have voted and made their choice.
Thank you dor taking the time to read this.
P

 

[Whispersecret]

I would like further clarification on what is considered "publically undermining."

 

[Dillinger]

Risia isn't the only one whose had frustration with this board... though others have had such frustrations for other reasons...

Look back at the postings on this board over the past few months and see if you can notice names that are no longer around. While it seems to me sometimes that I have been a lone voice yelling into the wind I have recieved more than a few emails from people who have left this board... some in tears - with no desire to return. And, even more sadly, a loss of desire to continue writing.

I think this board is good. I think the intentions of the people are good. I think, however, we can all use more sensitivity in how we respond and provide feedback. Some people are much more sensitive than others. Some do not have as thick a skin as I do (or perhaps not an over inflated ego to the point I do - I KNOW the worth of my words - I am not deterred... *weg*)

For some of the poets it took every last ounce of courage they had to submit their words - their heart - to literotica. We have an obligation to cherish that sacrifice and to find a way to encourage it while, at the same time, providing constructive feedback...

Never forget that this is not a college classroom where we're dissecting the works of some already famous, or near-famous poet. We're all just people here striving to make our voices heard - whether in a whisper or a shout.

Perhaps UP should ask the poet first if they want they're work layed open to the "wolves" before doing so?

 

[lovetoread]

I guess by now,everyone knows that I write for me and the one I love. As long as he likes it I could care less what others think about it.

That said,I knew my poems wouldnt make it to the top list. In fact I had hoped never to make number one,<which happened once,and boy was that bad> as they cannot stand up to intense pressure,those ones I wrote before hanging out here.

I would have quit long ago,had not for ya'll's words of how you knew I could do better,so I have tried.

Being number one is something you tried to be in High School. Learn to accept the fact that the poems on the Top List will get read and scrutinized a hell of a lot more than ones that never make it there. If you dont have a grab you and pull you into it kind of poem,its going down. Got it?

Why whine and complain about this though? If you dont like what UP or any other poet on this board says about your poem,Dont Read It!

Just because you believe that your poetry is the best,doesnt mean everyone else will.

If you dont want to make it to the list,cut your voting off.

Its that simple.

~LTR

Edited to add a question to Dillengers post above me. If these people are that sensitive,why post it to begin with? If I cannot take someone telling me how bad my poem is,then I sure as heck wouldnt post it on the internet. I would keep them to myself.

 

[daughter]

Dillinger

I'll speak only for me. I look at the whole. I do make an effort to get inside the poem. Now if that doesn't come across to you, are you saying I should remain quiet? Is there only one way to look at poems? So I like the pieces, does that make my view any less valuable? I am a bad person?

If there are other ways, then offer them instead of critisizing someone else for at least taking the time to say what she thinks. This is a public forum. Do you want to censor the critic but not the writer?

I don't want anyone's blood. Sorry, but words on a page is not a person to me. If someone's words is that close to her, I do back up cause I'm not here to tear folks down. I like words and I am fascinated with how we can arrange them. Maybe my approach is steril. I look at poetry. I'm not interested in pulling heartstrings.

I will argue people have a right to say what they feel about anything that is put on display. When I don't value someone's opinion, I simply don't listen.

No one is all good or all bad. If you have a personal issue with someone, confront her personally. Let's stop dancing around as if we're invisible. I'm willing to fess up and talk to anyone who feels I've harmed him. But let's handle personal matters privately. We're clogging up this board.

I'm not responsible for someone's feelings. I am responsible for my actions. If you take issue with my stance, please contact me. I'll talk with anyone who wants a civil, adult conversation.

I'm not going to clutter this forum with anymore arguments about comments and critiques.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Blue Dolphin]

Here I go again

Just checked the top poems.
Saw that the top ten is dominated by two writers, so I looked at the work,
good poems, thought , ok I have done enough complaining, i will vote, high.

What a surprise I had,
#2
#3
#6
#8
#9
#10

All have their voting turned OFF.
What does this mean to other poets,
with the high scores that these poems have,they are going to keep other worthy poets off the list. they will almosdt permanently maintain their top spots

What a good idea, write 10 poems, get yourself and 9 friends to vote 5, then turn your voting off. Stay at the top dorever.

It gets worse, the two poets concerned dominate the top50, holding between them 25 places, and the poems I checked had the voting off.relate this to the top 100, and it is in reality a corrupted top 50.

the two poets concerned are Rissia Skye, and Writer Dom.

What do I think,
?
Poems with voting off should not be eligible for alist that scores current voting.
quite simple really.
P

 

[WriterDom]

Yes, I joined RS in her passive protest of the vote-scrabbling fiasco. It will be temporary, but since your bitching began before the great exodus, and continued after the great exodus, I assume it will never stop till we all do the correct thing in your mind and give you a 6 on every poem.

And our voting isn't turned off. If you turn off the voting, they don't show at all on the list.

 

[Masked Poet]

pleasureu

Thanks to you I no longer need soap operas, Jerry Springer, or CNN. Besides, CNN was a filthy habit anyway.

MP

 

[mayi]

I didn't mean to start an arugment, I just was wondering why someone, who from what I can tell does not write poems, has the right to rip a poem to it core. Yes if you submit a poem you open yourself up to being critized, so what. But I do not expect to be back in school. I have never had a poem in the top lists, but that does not mean they are good or bad. And for all who want here is the link to my page, read and commet to your hearts content. I am willing to face the good and bad.


http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=43047


mayi

 

[KillerMuffin]

*highly irked*

There is not some hidden conspiracy here. Yes, we have vote tampering. It happens. Oh gee.

Look, pleasureu, get over yourself. You are not the most voter acclaimed poet here. What you are currently seeing regarding the whole vote thing with WD and RS's older stuff is a script glitch. If you would have had the forethought to bring it to the attention of the webmaster rather than whine about how it's just not fair then maybe it would have gotten fixed a long time ago. The webmasters here do their best to keep the voting fair. It's becoming a full time job.

I'm getting fed up with this whole sensitive poet bullshit. Low scores are NOT always the result of someone defrauding the poet. Low scores are OFTEN the result of someone not liking the poem.

Shocking idea! A low score because someone didn't like the poem? Who would have thought.

Another thing. And there are several people whining about it around these parts. If you put your poem up for public edification, then someone's going to not like it. Someone's going to critique it. And you're not going to like what they have to say. It's their right. If you can't handle having people who don't know you tell their truth about your poetry, then keep it to friends who are willing to either lie to you or who consider the source and ignore insipid doggerel.

On this board, we consider the poetry only. Period. We aren't cheerleaders. You don't get attaboys! because you wrote a poem and it means a lot to you. Our purpose is to give HONEST feedback, HONEST critiques, and HONEST discussion.

"Wow! That's a beautiful poem!" doesn't do jackshit for a poet. Nothing. It does nothing for the person who read it and it does nothing for the poet who writes it. Happy happy joy joy can be found most weekday mornings on public television. His name is Barney.

[/rant]

*still pissed off in general* Buncha pansies.


But to answer your question, mayi, with at least an attempt at civility. The poet gives a person the right to rip their poetry apart simply by posting it publicly. When you put yourself out publicly you allow other people to read what you've written and form opinions on it.

Unmasked Poet may not write poetry here, but he knows much more about poetry than anyone who thinks that "from the heart" qualifies a poem as great. Regretfully, there's more involved than feeling.

 

[Blue Dolphin]

voting

if the voting is not turned off, why cant I vote

It is off,