The Predators Among Us

[spankableBelle]

I had been approached on line by someone who was very demanding of me... demanding that I comply to his orders... give him my email, give him my phone number, meet with him immediately... This person did not want to get to know me... He just wanted to make demands... He scared me and I am not easily scared.

It was such a relief to be here, find some reassurances here that I was okay in not giving in to this person's demands....

It seems to me lately that there is some predatory behavior being exhibited on this board... you know the kind I mean, unsolicited pm's, pointed comments, unwelcome advances where people just don't take no for an answer... and blatant sexual advances of the less that welcome sort...

I wonder if anyone else noticed.... it is just me?

Comments anyone?

Damn, i miss all the good stuff! Not preyed upon...now that is just the last freakin' straw...i can handle the other places that i'm not noticed, but...now not even by the lowest of the low?

i have realized my full status as...Loser!

<giggles>

This girl's best friend is the ignore button. i personally don't understand why people don't just use it. It's the same in chatrooms, people go on about things like this (no offense) and then turn right around and say 'oh i don't like to use ignore, that's so rude'

Well, no shi...taki mushrooms sherlock (a little spy kids humor there)! It's meant to be rude, to drive a point home like say 'leave me the hell alone!' i had used this name on Yahoo! messenger for a couple of years and finally had to create a new one as my ignore box was full. <grins> No one should ever be afraid to stick up for themselves in any online place. No one should ever have to feel that they can't take measures to protect themselves (emotionally, mentally) in email, in pm, in public forum posts.

Today my opinions are worth 1/3 of a cent.

belle

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't use the ignore button, simply because I refuse to allow another (apart from Master) to control my experience of Lit. Many times the annoying gnats are just that way to see how many they can push into that place, why feed their over inflated misguided egos?!! LOL.

Catalina

 

[wolf2002]

A predator to one is a kitty cat to another...

 

[sweet T]

Predators?

I don't consider them predators....... I call them Trolls.....

 

[catalina_francisco]

Mmmmm, trolls have a bit different behaviour for my definition, but are just as annoying at times.

C

 

[spankableBelle]

A predator to one is a kitty cat to another...

Meow...

Wolf and i have a mutual predator/stalker thing going...

 

[Prof Bill]

I don't go in the chat rooms so have no first-hand knowledge about predators on Lit. (The MCP in me thinks that if there are female predators perhaps I should give it a try--but probably not 'cause I'm too old for that shit!)

The first intreractive board I was on was the old MSN Dungeon. It was wonderful--had the greatest wise-ass subs in the world! This place reminds me of much of that and it's why I continue.

The subs called those who tried to be predators either HNG's (horny network geeks), or assholes (which wasn't an acronym but was, instead, a description), or "sonny." Everyone was welcomed into the rooms until and unless it was demonstrated they were not valued citizens. Can't that be done here? If someone acts like a predator, call him or her on it in public. Post a predator's list and if someone's on it incorrectly let him or her demonstrate why he or she shouldn't be so listed.

There are lots more safeguards today and that's good. But I don't think we should make light of it. Every year it seems that someone dies because of some bastard hiding behind BDSM. These are abusers and murderers; they are not Dominants or Masters. It's always a good idea to remind each other that what we do can be very dangerous, that if we're doing it with someone who is not stable or whom we don't know, anything can happen, and that while "patience" is the most difficult advice given it's also the best for newbies.

I haven't gone over all the threads that have been saved--but do we have a central location for safety tips?

And shouldn't one of these safety tips include giving subs permission to determine the difference between an asshole and a Dom?

Bill

 

[sweet T]

Predator. There are no predators, if you do not allow yourself to become prey.

 

[wolf2002]

Meow...

Wolf and i have a mutual predator/stalker thing going...

Kiiiiddykiddykiddy...

 

[SweetDommes]

Predator. There are no predators, if you do not allow yourself to become prey.

That is the attitude that gets people killed. Having seen and dealt with real live predators ... in the flesh, I tell you they are there and unless you are vigilant and have people caring about you enough to help you out, they could get you.

Hopefully people are smart enough not to meet up with random people they met online. That doesn't mean that predators who follow you home, hide in the bushes on college campuses, break into the ladies housing units and the like don't exsist.

Attitudes like "you have to allow yourself to be victimized" or "only careless people get in trouble" lead to under reporting of rapes and attempted assults.

There's no need to hide in our dungeons but the threat is there and real and the real threat are not the boys and girls online looking for jerking material.

 

[sweet T]

I have no doubt they are out there.. and I do not allow myself to become prey... Do You? I'm sure you don't.. therefore you are not prey... and do not allow yourself to be put in that position...

ditto on what I said in the previous post...

 

[SweetDommes]

I have no doubt they are out there.. and I do not allow myself to become prey... Do You? I'm sure you don't.. therefore you are not prey... and do not allow yourself to be put in that position...

ditto on what I said in the previous post...

I'm sorry, but you cannot "ditto" what you said, because in the other post, you said that there are no preditors, and now you said that they are, indeed, out there ...

Not to mention that a- you do not have to be successfully taken to be prey, and b- I have done nothing to incite being assulted, but it has happened in the past ... I was careful about where I walked & when I walked, etc, and I was still attacked by a group of young men. I was prey of preditors, even though I did nothing to cause it... I also stood up for myself & prosecuted them - being prey also does not mean that we can't strike back.

 

[sweet T]

Perhaps you have taken my post in another direction from what it was on page one...

Although I feel for you and your past experiences... you do not know my past ....I am no longer prey...

 

[SweetDommes]

Although I feel for you and your past experiences... you do not know my past ....I am no longer prey...

No, I do not know your past, and if you have had similar experiences (or worse) I'm sorry, but someone doesn't have to "make" themselves prey. "Prey" is something stalked by another, and anyone can decide to stalk anyone or anything. You can make yourself less of a target, but you cannot prevent everything from ever happening (again).

 

[sweet T]

Must be the *mood* you are in....

Pushes a bowl of milk over....


Put up your claws....

I'm not here to debate with you. Have a better evening!

 

[SweetDommes]

Must be the *mood* you are in....

Pushes a bowl of milk over....


Put up your claws....

I'm not here to debate with you. Have a better evening!

Actually, the one in the "mood" is my girlfriend ... however, I am a wildlife major and it really annoys me when people try to tell me what prey is ...it also annoys me when people say that you have to "allow" a bad thing to happen to you, bad things do indeed happen to good people ... your post VERY much implied that ANY person who has had ANY bad thing happen to them is entirely at fault. Your posts didn't imply any valor in overcoming, which you later seemed to say it did imply, and most of my posting hasn't been for your benifit but for the benifit of others who may have been hurt by your seemingly callous attitude.

 

[Krinaia]

Must be the *mood* you are in....

Pushes a bowl of milk over....


Put up your claws....

I'm not here to debate with you. Have a better evening!

ouch.... sounds like you choose the wrong sort of screenname. not what i would call a sweet thing to do.

I'm going to have to agree with SweetDommes on this one. You can protect yourself as much as you can but sometimes there isn't anything you can do to stop yourself from being a victim. You can lock your car doors, park next to a Lexus, install a car alarm - but if a thief smashes in your window and steals your car stereo - well all your preparations were useful but.... You can't make people good by hoping, praying and being as tough as you can.

 

[DVS]

Re: Re: Re: Hmm..

...and assholish!

Is there such a word as assholish? Sounds like some sort of religion of the anal glands, perhaps?

Just kidding, ladies. don't get all preditorish on me. OK?

By the way...I've not seen any of this preditory stuff. Is this because I'm a man and probably not that interesting to the perditory sort? Although someone did say women were doing this, also?

MissTaken did prey on me for a bit, but she soon lost interest for another venture.

I was preyed upon by KM once, a long time back. She has quite a potty mouth.

 

[Krinaia]

DVS, i just saw your AV move and it freaked me out. Lol.... tricky tricky.

 

[DVS]

DVS, i just saw your AV move and it freaked me out. Lol.... tricky tricky.

Hitch does have a fiendish smile. Tricky, devious, and fiendish, but not preditory.

 

[sweet T]

It has been a long time since we have spent any time at all discussing predators.... It was a post on the old Mother thread the day I first visited the boards that let me know I was in the right place...

I had been approached on line by someone who was very demanding of me... demanding that I comply to his orders... give him my email, give him my phone number, meet with him immediately... This person did not want to get to know me... He just wanted to make demands... He scared me and I am not easily scared.

It was such a relief to be here, find some reassurances here that I was okay in not giving in to this person's demands....

It seems to me lately that there is some predatory behavior being exhibited on this board... you know the kind I mean, unsolicited pm's, pointed comments, unwelcome advances where people just don't take no for an answer... and blatant sexual advances of the less that welcome sort...

I wonder if anyone else noticed.... it is just me?

Comments anyone?

I am sorry if I have offended you, I had no intention of doing so.

I was speaking of the unsolicited Pm's ect... here on the board

I know where you are coming from and I agree with the point you are making.

Online...

I am not a thing... just T Have a good evening...

 

[catalina_francisco]

Attitudes like "you have to allow yourself to be victimized" or "only careless people get in trouble" lead to under reporting of rapes and attempted assults.

There's no need to hide in our dungeons but the threat is there and real and the real threat are not the boys and girls online looking for jerking material.

Is a common philosophy through society these days from school bullying to rape.....blame the victim and give them the responsibility of dealing with what has been thrown in the too hard basket. Hitting out against the view that it is the rape victims responsibility to prevent rape by staying indoors after dark, and watching what you wear, is what formed the foundation of 'Reclaim the Night' when British police tried to put these restrictions on women when they were unsuccessful in catching the rapist that had perpetrated a succession of rapes.

There is an interesting mock trial I don't have at my fingertips (in a packing box somewhere) used in the feminist fight against this type view in which a businessman is cross examined about why he was robbed and why it was his own fault. Goes through a list of accusations including his clothes, his watch, the area he was in (finishing up a business meeting was not acceptable reason), why he was there at the hour he was, all culminating in pointing out (as in keeping with the history of rape victims having their lives examined and the rapist protected under the law) that it was indeed his own fault he was assaulted and robbed as he had obviously asked for it. Maybe someday society will have the guts to make those culpable take responsibility for their actions, instead of finding another to blame so it can be swept quickly under the carpet and forgotten.

Catalina

 

[Pure]

For Prof Bill-- and a note about Sweet T,

Bill said,

There are lots more safeguards today and that's good. But I don't think we should make light of it. Every year it seems that someone dies because of some bastard hiding behind BDSM. These are abusers and murderers; they are not Dominants or Masters. It's always a good idea to remind each other that what we do can be very dangerous, that if we're doing it with someone who is not stable or whom we don't know, anything can happen, and that while "patience" is the most difficult advice given it's also the best for newbies.

I think this vastly exaggerates deaths involving BDSM persons or pretenders. It's true you can comb the papers, and come up with the Huebner case known throughout Australia, and some handful of cases in the US.

That's to be balanced, for a woman, against the chance of being killed by a boyfriend or hubby; or meeting a guy in a bar, going with him and getting killed. All these being 10 or 100 times more likely events.
===

As for Ms Sweet T, may I say a word in defense of her statement, "I do not allow myself to become prey... "

I like the attitude and believe there a lot to be said for it, esp. given that this thread arose because someone wanted to talk about ONLINE predators. It's clear they require a bit of naivete or cooperation, as in giving directions to your home.

While I don't doubt that occasionally in her life a person may meet force majeur, and be overpowered by strangers, I think that, outside warzones, foreign and domestic, it's not the rule, it's the exception. Likewise, the 'central park jogger' events, her getting greatly injured by someone, apparently not the black teens thought responsible. Yes, I've known persons, including close friends to whom such things have happened, say once in ten or twenty years.

BUT, looking at the number of situations in which one has a fair degree of control, including the 'date' situation: I think they vastly outnumber the stranger assault scenarios by 100 to 1.

I agree there are some dangerous hubbies, when divorces crop up, but these are unstable, more than 'predators'... and they are known. So that's a whole different issue.

So overall, and with regard to strangers, *esp. those 'met' on the net*, I think an adult woman is more accurate in her view of things, and better served in life with Miss Sweet T's attitude (plus commonsense) than with the attitude: "There's murderers 'out there' all around me, including lurking on the 'net. And they can 'get to me' any time they please, regardless of what I do."

J.

 

[Prof Bill]

Calution and Patience

For Pure--

While the numbers of known "BDSM-hidden" deaths would seem to be low over the years, they are still numbers. There are still bad people who will try to take advantage of others. Some of these bad people will use BDSM chat rooms and bulletin boards and munches and so on to identify potential victoms.

If it stays on line the danger is mostly emotional--and others in the chat rooms can usually help the victom deal with it. But when some bad-guy gets a potential victom to meet him or her away from the computer, things can become serious in a hurry.

Without indulging in broad stereotyping, let's look at the profile of at least some of the women who are attracted to these boards and rooms. Frequently, they seem to be relatively inexperienced in matters sexual although they have strong desires, they have a strong desire/need to serve, they are relieved to find that there are others in the world who feel much like they do, they come from situations where they feel they do not "fit in" or where they have been rejected for one reason or another (frequently, in my experience, because of weight problems), and they want to learn all there is to learn as fast as possible.

So, what happens? Well, when everything works the way it's supposed to, these women learn enough to get started, meet some subby friends who can help them evaluate what's going on, and then they'll begin their safe and pleasurable journey in this life style.

But what of those who are not so lucky? A forceful man takes an interest in these newcomers, seems to know what he's talking about, pays attention to what they need and want, and then offers to "help" them, or to "train" them, or--even--to "love" them. And they meet.

A former sub of mine, who certainly knew better, invited such a person to her house after we broke up. She was out of work for three days, urinated blood for a week, was told not to tell anyone because her son would suffer if she did, and was left after he was done using her. There was no sex. Only his restraining her and then beating her for about a day. It took me a year to get the name out of her, and by that time he'd moved away from the area. As far as I know, he's still out there. I've been unable to locate him, although some friends and I have certainly tried.

Another experienced sub, the friend of a friend, did everything right for a first meeting with a guy in NYC. Safe calls, public locations, timetables--the whole smear. They played that night and, according to her, it was wonderful. He called her soon afterwards, asked her to visit him in New Jersey, and she agreed. And, of course, because she'd already had a successful date with him, she didn't need safety precautions. Her body was found three days later in the motel room--tied to the bed. He'd beaten her to an inch of her life, apparently, and then left her there to die. He, too, is still out there.

I know some other incidents, also, but these are enough.

Does it happen often? No. Does it happen? Yes. Should we help people guard against it? You bet we should. And one of the ways to do this is to warn newbies about predators and to teach safe procedures and patience.

Bill

 

[Krinaia]

It's horrible things like that happen. Thank you for the reminder.