The validity of online relationships.

[Ahren]

I don't think that's being said at all. Writing a fictional story is not the same as being in a secret online relationship. If you're keeping your SRP writing a secret, it still strikes me as dishonest and I'd wonder about the strength of your relationship if you chose to hide the fact that you wrote in SRPs from your SO, but you're not claiming to love someone else by writing a story.

 

[Hikari]

So, what you're saying is that married people should no longer SRP on Lit.
Because writing with others in a sexual manner is considered cheating.


...How long do I have to clear out?

No it's that if you are writing naughty stuff and in a relationship, your partner should be aware of it.

 

[grant_s]

Look, even if you don't have kids it's alright to judge people who are acting dishonestly. Lying to someone you committed to is inexcusable. Marriages break up. We're adults. There's nobody saying that you need to stay with the one you marry forever because, legitimately, marriage is nothing more than an agreement.

But that agreement is made with an expectation of respect and consideration. It's not fucking decent to lie to someone you're supposed to respect and consider. It's not decent as a human being, forget anything else, to be that kind of dishonest. You should have the courage to speak plainly to that person and give them the chance to choose for their own happiness.

By not doing that you're being malicious and cruel.

This isn't fucking complicated stuff. I dislike that on Lit it seems to be treated as a "shades of grey" argument. I mean, how fucking hypocritical? If Ausus' parter was completely dishonest with her I imagine she would not shrug and say, "live and let live."

And I'm really fucking certain, Asa, you wouldn't either.

I actually am well amused, how on earth did LI and Ahren turn this into a thread about them.

LI, Ahren and Hakari, let me ask you this, you all claim we are stupid, silly and whatever other insults you like to heap upon us, but, this thread was about the validity of love on here, you all claim we are mad and its not possible, yet, you are judging everyone who posts as if these feelings are real, now please decide, are these feelings valid, yes or no, if not, stop making an ass of yourself and judging us on something you clearly do not believe in.

Like you say LI, this is not complicated, you either believe it is possible to have feelings for someone online, or you don't.

This thread was about are our feelings valid, some have come out to say yes they were and are, so its decided to judge them and belittle us, and then you wonder why people are hostile towards you.

 

[Ahren]

Oh, it's grant and the "you either have ALL FEELINGS OR NONE" argument again. Hooray.

Only Sith deal in absolutes.

 

[grant_s]

Oh, it's grant and the "you either have ALL FEELINGS OR NONE" argument again. Hooray.

Only Sith deal in absolutes.

No actually its about the validity of relationships, which you have clearly said its impossible, yet you judging on the grounds as if they were. How can it be cheating if as you claim, you can't love someone you have never met, don't start twisting my words, just stick to the topic

 

[Light Ice]

No actually its about the validity of relationships, which you have clearly said its impossible, yet you judging on the grounds as if they were. How can it be cheating if as you claim, you can't love someone you have never met, don't start twisting my words, just stick to the topic

Wow. Your wife is a lucky lady.

 

[grant_s]

Wow. Your wife is a lucky lady.

See again you show lack of respect for someone who challenges your views. Why can you not answer or stick to your own views, with the two of you, the goalpost continue shift.

You either believe that you can have a valid online relationship, or you cant. If you feel you can't, you can't judge someone married or not, when they say they have or do.

 

[Ahren]

The problem lies with the intent and the deception. If you have a spouse but you're secretly claiming to love someone online, the fact that I don't believe it's a valid relationship doesn't change the fact that you are decieving your partner and longing for someone else. You have feelings for this person, yes, but they're more feelings of lust than love. I believe you can lust over someone online. It's still foolish and you're probably lusting over things that aren't even really real.

I mean, in most cases a one night stand isn't love but it's still cheating.

 

[grant_s]

The problem lies with the intent and the deception. If you have a spouse but you're secretly claiming to love someone online, the fact that I don't believe it's a valid relationship doesn't change the fact that you are decieving your partner and longing for someone else. You have feelings for this person, yes, but they're more feelings of lust than love. I believe you can lust over someone online. It's still foolish and you're probably lusting over things that aren't even really real.

I mean, in most cases a one night stand isn't love but it's still cheating.

You see, I have no issue with that response, but to personally attack every person who posts, its not called for

 

[Hikari]

See again you show lack of respect for someone who challenges your views. Why can you not answer or stick to your own views, with the two of you, the goalpost continue shift.

You either believe that you can have a valid online relationship, or you cant. If you feel you can't, you can't judge someone married or not, when they say they have or do.

You don't have to have valid love to emotionally cheat on your spouse. Certainly we all have fantasies. Fantasies are healthy, but when you begin to live in that fantasy you have a problem. When you begin to favor obsession over a person you've never met over your spouse, that is a serious problem. I'd say it was cheating amongst other things.

You don't need love to become obsessed or attached to someone. Stalkers may feel they care about their victims, but can you really call their feelings love? You can't really call it love because it is infatuation based on the idea of someone they may have never had real contact with. They project their ideal onto someone that may not live up to such a fantasy.

 

[iName]

Is an online relationship valid? Yes. That's the short answer.
Agree or disagree, the relationship is real and valid to those who are involved in it. I salute anyone who has the courage,patience,and commitment to see it through.

 

[Ahren]

You see, I have no issue with that response, but to personally attack every person who posts, its not called for

Well I didn't do that? I think most of my responses have been pretty civil. If I got sarcastic or snarky it's because people like to not read posts, or pointlessly repeat themselves, or flat out say things that make no sense. It gets frustrating. Those aren't really "attacks" though.

And if I did attack anyone personally (which I don't think I did), they deserved it. Sorry but there's no way you'll get me to feel bad for insulting a guy cheating on his wife. I'm still astounded by how many people seem willing to defend it. I know this is the super secret taboo site where people can write things unfit for most other public forums, but that doesn't mean morals and standards should be completely discarded.

It's hard to think of rational explanations for why some people defend certain things here. It's like, they refuse to be seen as the bad guy no matter what, even if they're arguably the good guy for speaking out against such slimeball behavior. Maybe they just refuse to see someone they consider a friend doing something wrong. Maybe they're trying to justify something immoral they're doing by defending someone else's immoral actions. I don't know. But LI makes a perfectly valid point when he says that if someone were to cheat on one of the people who are perfectly fine saying "don't judge!" they would probably drop that line of thinking quickly. It's hypocritical.

 

[Ausus_girl13]

Oh lounge how I love thee. You're like the gift that keeps giving.

And you people, subscribing to monogamy- it's cute. Try to realize that what works for you doesn't always work for others. This isn't me excusing anyone...

 

[Britwitch]

Oh lounge how I love thee. You're like the gift that keeps giving.

And you people, subscribing to monogamy- it's cute. Try to realize that what works for you doesn't always work for others. This isn't me excusing anyone...

I held off posting, mainly because I've posted my thoughts on the issue of online 'love' in another thread and see no sense in repeating myself again

I think the issue isn't the idea that monogamy is the only way, because it isn't and I honestly believe that for some people being with only one person isn't what works for them. It works for me but I get that it's not the same for everyone.

The issue is people whose are in a monogamous relationships, at least as far as their partner knows, whilst hiding online relationships. And by this I mean the more amorous relationships, not online friendships, people claiming to have online 'loves' that their wife/husband/SO knows nothing of. That just isn't right. If your partner knows/doesn't mind and all is well then fine.

For the record, Mr Brit knows I write here and play here and he knows that's as far as it goes and he knows he gets to reap the benefits when I've finished online and need the real thing.
There are many people here I like very much, who I love as friends, but that's all.

 

[Light Ice]

Oh lounge how I love thee. You're like the gift that keeps giving.

And you people, subscribing to monogamy- it's cute. Try to realize that what works for you doesn't always work for others. This isn't me excusing anyone...

You aren't reading and you've yet to make a post that makes much sense. Nobody here has even mentioned polyamorous relationships. The issue is dishonesty, which regardless of your romantic lifestyle choice, is a disgusting and destructive thing.

 

[Hikari]

You aren't reading and you've yet to make a post that makes much sense. Nobody here has even mentioned polyamorous relationships. The issue is dishonesty, which regardless of your romantic lifestyle choice, is a disgusting and destructive thing.

This is it exactly. Should you and your partner decide to have a more open relationship, that 's fine and up to you. However if you're doing sexual things behind your partner's back it's not okay. It means that they became involved with you without knowing about your personal sexuality in depth.

For example,if you like something like porn and your partner absolutely detests porn, so you hide it, you are maintaining a relationship under a falsehood.

It means you entered into a relationship based on lies instead of finding someone to accept you as you are.

 

[Rick345]

All right, define them however you wish, though in that case I also consider it silly to have friends online to the level you're talking about. So I'm still not contradicting myself. I would find it very difficult to completely trust someone I never met just like I would find it very difficult to love someone I have never met.

Why would it be silly?

 

[Ausus_girl13]

You aren't reading and you've yet to make a post that makes much sense. Nobody here has even mentioned polyamorous relationships. The issue is dishonesty, which regardless of your romantic lifestyle choice, is a disgusting and destructive thing.

You're right. But much of the dishonesty in monogamous relationships is centered around the fact that people aren't honest with their partners.Just because we have that "one true love" doesn't mean we don't want to fuc that hot piece of ass that just walked by. We are human. Period. Fuck LI, I bet you aren't always 100% honest with your partner, and if you told me that you were, I would call you a fucking liar. Cause you would be.

We can't always be totally honest with our partners and sometimes we don't want them to know our proclivities, either out of fear of judgement or it being an unsafe environment. And sometimes, we have to lie because we just aren't ready for our partners to know our thoughts. It took me months of preparing to have a discussion about being poly with Zom because, my head just wasn't wrapped around it yet. And when I finally did tell him, I ended up giving him an ultimatum even though I never intended that to be the case.

So yes. Sometimes you have to lie to your partner.

This is it exactly. Should you and your partner decide to have a more open relationship, that 's fine and up to you. However if you're doing sexual things behind your partner's back it's not okay. It means that they became involved with you without knowing about your personal sexuality in depth.

For example,if you like something like porn and your partner absolutely detests porn, so you hide it, you are maintaining a relationship under a falsehood.

It means you entered into a relationship based on lies instead of finding someone to accept you as you are.

This is stupid. Totally stupid. Fucking r-tarded.

What if your partner hates porn, and you like it and they know you like it, but they don't want to know about it, so you don't share? Again you're totally lying about it to your partner but that holds the status quo.

And seriously- I'd bet most of the people who are being lied to- are pretty aware that they are being lied to, even if they can't admit it to themselves. And maybe that's fine for them.

Case in point- FD's wife- ten to one odds that she knows something is up. But I bet she just doesn't want to fuck with it, or she doesn't care. Because maybe she's got something going on too. Who the fuck knows?

Yes. Honesty is always the best bet. And the lying to your partner is a bad fucking idea. But then so is judging others based on your own narrow perceptions of black and white/right and wrong.

 

[Hikari]

You're right. But much of the dishonesty in monogamous relationships is centered around the fact that people aren't honest with their partners.Just because we have that "one true love" doesn't mean we don't want to fuc that hot piece of ass that just walked by. We are human. Period. Fuck LI, I bet you aren't always 100% honest with your partner, and if you told me that you were, I would call you a fucking liar. Cause you would be.

We can't always be totally honest with our partners and sometimes we don't want them to know our proclivities, either out of fear of judgement or it being an unsafe environment. And sometimes, we have to lie because we just aren't ready for our partners to know our thoughts. It took me months of preparing to have a discussion about being poly with Zom because, my head just wasn't wrapped around it yet. And when I finally did tell him, I ended up giving him an ultimatum even though I never intended that to be the case.

So yes. Sometimes you have to lie to your partner.



This is stupid. Totally stupid. Fucking r-tarded.

What if your partner hates porn, and you like it and they know you like it, but they don't want to know about it, so you don't share? Again you're totally lying about it to your partner but that holds the status quo.

And seriously- I'd bet most of the people who are being lied to- are pretty aware that they are being lied to, even if they can't admit it to themselves. And maybe that's fine for them.

Case in point- FD's wife- ten to one odds that she knows something is up. But I bet she just doesn't want to fuck with it, or she doesn't care. Because maybe she's got something going on too. Who the fuck knows?

Yes. Honesty is always the best bet. And the lying to your partner is a bad fucking idea. But then so is judging others based on your own narrow perceptions of black and white/right and wrong.

There is no such thing as a soul mate. That doesn't mean you can't find someone you are sexually compatible with to marry.

Problems arise when people settle in relationships for people they aren't compatible with.

If you married someone that is willing to condemn you for being yourself sexually, then that was your first mistake.

If you married someone that you can't be honest with, that's also a mistake. There needs to be honesty to be trust. Marriage without trust is no marriage at all.

If you marry someone you aren't compatible with, it becomes sustained upon lies. You might as well just be roommates that fuck, if you suck that much at being partners.

To waste someone else's life in a relationship that you are too much of a pussy to end properly, is just plain disrespectful.

Sure no relationship is perfect, but certain things need to be present for it to survive. Honesty and sexual compatibility are pretty fucking important.

Also just because some people know they are being lied to, doesn't mean they are okay with it. It doesn't make it right.

 

[Rick345]

First off I'd like to say that princessexci's post pretty much sums up what I feel about on-line relationships however, I'll make a few additions to clarify my position.

I think it depends on how close you are willing to get to said guy or girl. I know I have tried to have online relationships with guys on here and things didn't work out(I'm not saying with whom, he knows who he is) . I think part of it was I was not willing to compromise on certain aspects of his life and I guess when i do get into online relationships I get a tad bit too needy or what not. However, its hard to have a long distance relationship and NOT want to talk to said guy.

Long distance relationships are always difficult to maintain. When you see someone on a regular basis it reaffirms your feelings and commitment to that person. If one doesn't have a direct and fairly continuous contact with a loved one the relationships often suffers. It's often said the first casualty of war is fidelity. People who are separated for long periods of time often stray its one the failings of human nature.

E-collars- are they valid? How much power do they hold?

They can be, it depends on the people involved. If we use the current divorce rate than it could be argued that wedding rings and wedding vows are only slightly more valid than e-collars. But, most people would find my comparison laughable but, the point is a e-collar or a wedding ring is only a symbol of commitment and nothing more; the people making the commitment(s) are the weakest link and always have been.

Is the person that we are supposedly in love with that person or just an idealized version of them? I feel that sometimes online you aren't in love with the person you're in love with who you think they are or imagine them to be. That's not always the case mind you, sometimes you say it because they say it and don't want to hurt their feelings(I've done this) or just in love with love.

For me the above is the very heart of this whole matter. On the Internet people are usually typing away from the enclaves of their own personal comfort zones: their homes, their work, their business. People more often than not are typing from a place they feel the most at ease and this is a very important point.

When we are in our comfort zone we may feel more at ease to put our best foot forward and forget to mention our flaws. In the case of the person we are "in love" with we tend to allow ourselves to think only the best about them. So in short in an on-line relationship its easy for us to lie to ourselves and easy for us to believe the lies someone else maybe feeding us. That's not say everyone on line is lying but, one can sum up far more about a person in a ten minute face to face conversation than one can surmise about someone from chatting online for 10 months.

Overall, I'm not saying online relationships aren't legit. Some are. I know people who have met in chatrooms and then end up married two years later. I'm just saying that sometimes you fall in love with who you think they are and once you actually talk to them through text or on the phone it just doesn't work out.

BINGO! Some on-line relationship bloom and others wither and we often fall in love with the person we think someone is but, that happens in real life as well.

 

[Ausus_girl13]

There is no such thing as a soul mate. That doesn't mean you can't find someone you are sexually compatible with to marry.

Doesn't mean that there aren't people who base their entire existence on the idea of "that one true love". And it does so exist. I met mine.

Problems arise when people settle in relationships for people they aren't compatible with.

True. But sometimes people want to be in a relationship so badly that they are willing to over look things.

If you married someone that is willing to condemn you for being yourself sexually, then that was your first mistake.

Oh please. This is idealistic to the extreme. People change, marriages change. Relationships change.

If you married someone that you can't be honest with, that's also a mistake. There needs to be honesty to be trust. Marriage without trust is no marriage at all.
But again. Sometimes companionship is more important. Marriage of convenience anyone?


If you marry someone you aren't compatible with, it becomes sustained upon lies. You might as well just be roommates that fuck, if you suck that much at being partners.

Again. You're thinking too narrowly- relationships come in all colors, and they change sometimes in unbelievable ways. My partner and I spent the last seven years completely monogamous. That changed. We changed. And now this makes sense for us.

Other people have other reasons to lie to their partners. Doesn't make it okay, but it doesn't mean that it can't or doesn't happen.

To waste someone else's life in a relationship that you are too much of a pussy to end properly, is just plain disrespectful.

Agreed. But sometimes the paradigm of the relationship is too perfect to end. So you manage it the best you can. Sometimes you can't leave. Lives and money being intertwined and all.

Sure no relationship is perfect, but certain things need to be present for it to survive. Honesty and sexual compatibility are pretty fucking important.

I completely agree with you here.

Also just because some people know they are being lied to, doesn't mean they are okay with it. It doesn't make it right.

Not excusing it. But also- not your job to condemn. Not your life, not your relationship- and the majority of a relationship that isn't our own lies in the personal- and there are a lot of details that we just aren't privy to.

Sure you can wave your hands and jump up and down, and call everyone's ass down for being a liar, making yourself feel all sorts of superior because you know the difference between right and wrong, but in the end. It ain't your life.

 

[Ahren]

You're right. But much of the dishonesty in monogamous relationships is centered around the fact that people aren't honest with their partners.Just because we have that "one true love" doesn't mean we don't want to fuc that hot piece of ass that just walked by. We are human. Period. Fuck LI, I bet you aren't always 100% honest with your partner, and if you told me that you were, I would call you a fucking liar. Cause you would be.

We can't always be totally honest with our partners and sometimes we don't want them to know our proclivities, either out of fear of judgement or it being an unsafe environment. And sometimes, we have to lie because we just aren't ready for our partners to know our thoughts. It took me months of preparing to have a discussion about being poly with Zom because, my head just wasn't wrapped around it yet. And when I finally did tell him, I ended up giving him an ultimatum even though I never intended that to be the case.

So yes. Sometimes you have to lie to your partner.



This is stupid. Totally stupid. Fucking r-tarded.

What if your partner hates porn, and you like it and they know you like it, but they don't want to know about it, so you don't share? Again you're totally lying about it to your partner but that holds the status quo.

And seriously- I'd bet most of the people who are being lied to- are pretty aware that they are being lied to, even if they can't admit it to themselves. And maybe that's fine for them.

Case in point- FD's wife- ten to one odds that she knows something is up. But I bet she just doesn't want to fuck with it, or she doesn't care. Because maybe she's got something going on too. Who the fuck knows?

Yes. Honesty is always the best bet. And the lying to your partner is a bad fucking idea. But then so is judging others based on your own narrow perceptions of black and white/right and wrong.

I thought you were a smart person, I guess I was wrong.

 

[Hikari]

Not excusing it. But also- not your job to condemn. Not your life, not your relationship- and the majority of a relationship that isn't our own lies in the personal- and there are a lot of details that we just aren't privy to.

Sure you can wave your hands and jump up and down, and call everyone's ass down for being a liar, making yourself feel all sorts of superior because you know the difference between right and wrong, but in the end. It ain't your life.

What you are describing in terms of marriage is absolutely absurd.

People don't change, they just become more honest and make less of an effort at lying.

That's why you should get to know someone for a couple of years instead of quickly marrying the first person that tolerates you. You wait to see if you still like them after they stop trying so hard.

There is no true love. There is just you meeting someone compatible with you. There are atleast a thousand other guys you could be compatible and happy with. You just happened to bump into this one first.

If you keep a failing relationship alive based upon deception, then you are using that person only to avoid being alone. If you're fine with using people for selfish purposes, I really have to wonder how you treat people offline because using people like that is never okay.

 

[Ausus_girl13]

I thought you were a smart person, I guess I was wrong.

Justify this or sit there and shut the fuck up.

What you are describing in terms of marriage is absolutely absurd.

People don't change, they just become more honest and make less of an effort at lying.

That's why you should get to know someone for a couple of years instead of quickly marrying the first person that tolerates you. You wait to see if you still like them after they stop trying so hard.

There is no true love. There is just you meeting someone compatible with you. There are atleast a thousand other guys you could be compatible and happy with. You just happened to bump into this one first.

If you keep a failing relationship alive based upon deception, then you are using that person only to avoid being alone. If you're fine with using people for selfish purposes, I really have to wonder how you treat people offline because using people like that is never okay.

Okay. Question. How long have you been with your partner? I ask because- I know LI's justification and his reasons behind most everything he says. Ahren's mostly just a shit- a smart little shit to be sure- but he likes the challenge of making himself look better than those around him.

But you.. I am curious about. What is at stake here for you?

 

[Rick345]

There is no such thing as a soul mate. That doesn't mean you can't find someone you are sexually compatible with to marry.

Problems arise when people settle in relationships for people they aren't compatible with.

If you married someone that is willing to condemn you for being yourself sexually, then that was your first mistake.

If you married someone that you can't be honest with, that's also a mistake. There needs to be honesty to be trust. Marriage without trust is no marriage at all.

If you marry someone you aren't compatible with, it becomes sustained upon lies. You might as well just be roommates that fuck, if you suck that much at being partners.

To waste someone else's life in a relationship that you are too much of a pussy to end properly, is just plain disrespectful.

Sure no relationship is perfect, but certain things need to be present for it to survive. Honesty and sexual compatibility are pretty fucking important.

Also just because some people know they are being lied to, doesn't mean they are okay with it. It doesn't make it right.

There maybe such a thing as a soulmate I just don't know. People can develop different testes in sex over time to get a devoice or split just because y'all don't hit it off in the sack anymore seems a bit drastic particularly if children are evolved or ending the relationship would put your ex into poverty seems cruel to me. Why not stick it out try to work out some type of compromise. Why is one person's happiness so much more important than another's that they have the right to cause grievous harm to others in the pursuit of their happiness? There are lots of reasons stick together even when things aren't rosy.....

While honesty and sexual compatibility are important they in and of themselves are not a good enough reason to cause pain and suffering to others outside of the sexual relationship.