To keep the review thread clean...

[WickedEve]

smithpeter was Doug Dixon when he was at home, and quite a few other personas online.

He was Gamrath at home.

 

[Du Lac]

humble bowing..

I don't mean to start a war lol.. just expressing the reaction I got to the review.. not as a vanity thread.. but to encourage the writers.... I do see your views and humbly bow to them with understanding and a new look at it... maybe it was just the word usage I was offended by... anyway just stating my case...
Du~
PS.. I do plan on chosing a poem or two.. but had to run to a job interview and then to work... planned on doing it tonight after I work...I did this on Monday also..
so I am not speaking without action..
Du~

 

[WickedEve]

Rybka, you handled the review perfectly. You were honest about your reaction to today's poems, but you also encouraged readers to comment and vote. You can't recommend poetry you don't like. And there will be poetry days when mediocrity rules.

 

[flyguy69]

Rybka, you handled the review perfectly. You were honest about your reaction to today's poems, but you also encouraged readers to comment and vote. You can't recommend poetry you don't like. And there will be poetry days when mediocrity rules.

Damn, now there are rules for mediocrity, too? I blame the Bush Administration.

 

[Syndra Lynn]

Damn, now there are rules for mediocrity, too? I blame the Bush Administration.

I second that nomination.

And humbly apologize to Rybka, whom I assumed was a she, and referred to as such, only to discover he is male. Sorry. You fishes are sooo hard to sex!

Syn

 

[*Catbabe*]

I second that nomination.

And humbly apologize to Rybka, whom I assumed was a she, and referred to as such, only to discover he is male. Sorry. You fishes are sooo hard to sex!

Syn

Okay, I now have a picture in my head of Syndra totally molesting a bunch of fishes; turning them around and over trying to figure out if they are girl fishes or guy fishes....that's definitely my favourite post of the day.

 

[flyguy69]

Okay, I now have a picture in my head of Syndra totally molesting a bunch of fishes; turning them around and over trying to figure out if they are girl fishes or guy fishes....that's definitely my favourite post of the day.

Lesbian sex with a cold fish? The joke temptation is strong, here, but I am above temptation. Soooo far above it.

 

[*Catbabe*]

Lesbian sex with a cold fish? The joke temptation is strong, here, but I am above temptation. Soooo far above it.

I meant molesting in an innocent way!! Stop trying to get me in trouble with people You kitten/horse-eating- trouble- making- shit- stirring bug-ger...errr I mean Fly

 

[Tathagata]

I meant molesting in an innocent way!! Stop trying to get me in trouble with people You kitten/horse-eating- trouble- making- shit- stirring bug-ger...errr I mean Fly

Don't you love petnames??

 

[flyguy69]

I meant molesting in an innocent way!! Stop trying to get me in trouble with people You kitten/horse-eating- trouble- making- shit- stirring bug-ger...errr I mean Fly

And I meant lesbian sex in a chaste breast-sucking, strap-on humping way. Hey, cats are a kind of fish, aren't they? I wonder if I cast a fly....

 

[flyguy69]

Don't you love petnames??

It is one of nicer ones I have been called!

 

[*Catbabe*]

It is one of nicer ones I have been called!

I meant it in the nicest possible way...

I bet you can cast a fly quite well but I don't think I will bite... just tie it into a million knots.

 

[Guest]

Rybka, you handled the review perfectly. You were honest about your reaction to today's poems, but you also encouraged readers to comment and vote. You can't recommend poetry you don't like. And there will be poetry days when mediocrity rules.

Amen.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Rybka, you handled the review perfectly. You were honest about your reaction to today's poems, but you also encouraged readers to comment and vote. You can't recommend poetry you don't like. And there will be poetry days when mediocrity rules.

Perspective~

wow how did I miss the fun?

I say it is perspective~

It is hard to see the light when swimming in the waters of the mind.
When looking for a pebble and only finding sand why mention
the sand. While throwing rocks. I think it best if you see the
Poetry list as mediocor, then why not say here is a giggle that is a tad
bit in the medocrity section, not mention old poems on a new poems
thread, then not comment on any poems,
I found several poems to be cute humorous and even clever today
my two cents any body got change for a dime?

 

[jthserra]

Confusing??

thanks for the comment jim, I am sorry you were confussed, seems I do that to you alot, I will be sure not to post any more confussing poems on tuesday <grin> I recieved several Zatoichi fans who seem to understand, I was glad so many felt the wisdom this charactor bestowed, I only hoped to share it with you all and the quotation at the end explained all that, but I have a point I learned from this, perspective. My perspect was that I ASSumed every one knew ichi san, sorry, he said all those wonderful and wise things in the QUOTATIONS in the movie explained in "quotation" at the bottom.

Perspective, jim saw my poem from his perspective, <big grin>


"Perhaps a falling leaf does hate the wind" <smilin'>
a quote by Zatoichi san

Once again I guess I was too subtle in my response. I guess I need to be more blunt. The Zatoichi poem was not confusing, I simply was left wondering, not being familiar with the entire library of Zatoichi movies (I guess I could have consulted my son). What confused me was the question as to whether the quotes came from another source or if they were the poet's. Of course reading the lines I was fairly certain the lines were borrowed, but without the source being cited, I then had to wonder: Did the poet truely mean to plagarize a work he was supposedly honoring or did he omit the notations simply out of ignorance?

Zatoichi fans may recognize the lines, but beyond a few well known quotes from the bible... a writer simply must cite the sources of borrowed material. It is simply good manners and is the right thing to do. Even with the mention of the movies in the poem's afterward, you never mentioned the source of the quotes.

If you truly intended the poem as an homage, I think the quotes should be properly cited... that means editing the poem, anything else is simply wrong. As far as the confusion, Art, re-read my review... you will see the confusion was in the misuse of the borrowed lines.

In the most recent installment of the Zatoichi movies, the hero wasn't really blind, he simply kept his eyes closed. At the end of the movie he did open them. Perhaps there is a message here... I will watch for your edit of the poem Art.


jim : )

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Once again I guess I was too subtle in my response. I guess I need to be more blunt. The Zatoichi poem was not confusing, I simply was left wondering, not being familiar with the entire library of Zatoichi movies (I guess I could have consulted my son). What confused me was the question as to whether the quotes came from another source or if they were the poet's. Of course reading the lines I was fairly certain the lines were borrowed, but without the source being cited, I then had to wonder: Did the poet truely mean to plagarize a work he was supposedly honoring or did he omit the notations simply out of ignorance?

Zatoichi fans may recognize the lines, but beyond a few well known quotes from the bible... a writer simply must cite the sources of borrowed material. It is simply good manners and is the right thing to do. Even with the mention of the movies in the poem's afterward, you never mentioned the source of the quotes.

If you truly intended the poem as an homage, I think the quotes should be properly cited... that means editing the poem, anything else is simply wrong. As far as the confusion, Art, re-read my review... you will see the confusion was in the misuse of the borrowed lines.

In the most recent installment of the Zatoichi movies, the hero wasn't really blind, he simply kept his eyes closed. At the end of the movie he did open them. Perhaps there is a message here... I will watch for your edit of the poem Art.


jim : )

What I find curious is jim, your confused calling others ignorant! Your inner persception is spilled out in your words. Come down off the soap box before you furt your self.

Edit the poem? cite the poem would be to make a small sentence that
spells it out that all quotations are from ichi san who the poem is about?
Is this the norm for such a thing, I read poems all the time here at lit and most
quotes from the great poets and such are sometimes no more than an italic line.
should I have made them italic, I respect your opinion and want to understand what you are saying but I haven't a clue what your asking, so the UNKNOWING
which to you would be all the ignorant people, beneath you I presume. You know jim you could tone down the pompuss slanderous remarks you'd be a hell of a critic.

as well as it clearly states ..tribute to blind fury!!! I read a similar Tribute which gave me the idea cause I didn't know what a tribute truely was if I was to tribute some one I chose Zatoichi.


This is good, to learn the right way to quote others, which is done quite often so you're saying they are all plagerists? If it is not done a certain way then by all means give us the secret formula on the proper procedure for such a submission. Quoting shakespeare would be probably the most common but I haven't seen it where they say this was said by william himself? just very curious how your viewing this one as different from others?



I see ..."to be or not to be" or "why do fools fall in love"
and they don't have a comment at the bottom like mine with an explanation so I tried to point this out so tell me the right way? And I will assure the proper procedure.

 

[Syndra Lynn]

This is good, to learn the right way to quote others, which is done quite often so you're saying they are all plagerists? If it is not done a certain way then by all means give us ignorant ones the scoop on the proper procedure for such a submission. Quoting shakespeare would be probably the most common but I haven't seen it where they say this was said by william himself? just very curious how your viewing this one as different from others?

Wow! Who stole the prize outta your cracker jack box?

Happy thoughts!~Happy thoughts! Dancing nanners.

hugs and kisses all around

Syn

 

[My Erotic Tale]

thank you for all your comments and for reading my poetry Im glad that you enjoy the work I have written and please do me a favor will you please let everyone that does the reviews of the poems that I truly appreciate their's and your reviews of my poems.

chez~

.```````````````````````````````````````````
hello Syndra<grin>


speaking of thank yous I haven't thanked you for your latest comment on my poem, bows!

 

[twelveoone]

The New Poetry thread isn't a vanity thread, nor was it created for the poets' sake. It was started because of the readers who don't have time to read all the poems of the list every day. If a reviewer doesn't see anything worth recommending, then so be it.

Yes it shouldn't be a vanity thread, and the reviewer himself should be an example of it, in bold, nothing worth reviewing
how many words does it take to say it? And at what size? Nothing new added, just more of a bit of self-stoking ego.
Heavy scent of a MFA slip being raised, with nothing constuctive offered.

 

[jthserra]

Citing work...

What I find curious is jim, your confused calling others ignorant! Your inner persception is spilled out in your words. Come down off the soap box before you furt your self.

Edit the poem? cite the poem would be to make a small sentence that
spells it out that all quotations are from ichi san who the poem is about?
Is this the norm for such a thing, I read poems all the time here at lit and most
quotes from the great poets and such are sometimes no more than an italic line.
should I have made them italic, I respect your opinion and want to understand what you are saying but I haven't a clue what your asking, so the UNKNOWING
which to you would be all the ignorant people, beneath you I presume. You know jim you could tone down the pompuss slanderous remarks you'd be a hell of a critic.

as well as it clearly states ..tribute to blind fury!!! I read a similar Tribute which gave me the idea cause I didn't know what a tribute truely was if I was to tribute some one I chose Zatoichi.


This is good, to learn the right way to quote others, which is done quite often so you're saying they are all plagerists? If it is not done a certain way then by all means give us the secret formula on the proper procedure for such a submission. Quoting shakespeare would be probably the most common but I haven't seen it where they say this was said by william himself? just very curious how your viewing this one as different from others?



I see ..."to be or not to be" or "why do fools fall in love"
and they don't have a comment at the bottom like mine with an explanation so I tried to point this out so tell me the right way? And I will assure the proper procedure.

Once again Art, you have an opportunity to learn something and call me a pompous slanderer when I show you that you've made a serious mistake. The initial review was carefully worded, trying to guide you in how to handle the problem. Unfortunately you either didn't understand what I was saying or simply twisted my words to cover up your mistake (indicating that your poem confused me).

It was only after I realized that you really didn't understand what I was talking about that I put it bluntly, in a way you could understand. It is clear you used material from another source, it is also clear that you did not acknowledge that fact. I have to wonder, when 1201 complemented you on one of the lines, did you say it wasn't your line?

There are many ways to cite a source:

Aerodrome

“...across feminine land indulging its easy limbs
In miles of softness...”
Stephen Spender

Hover in the void
between breath
and await a touch
floating the gentle curve
of anticipation...



from Witness to the Whimper

...A restless sleep, I feel the wind
the breathless breath of God
sweeps the earth in vacuum
as no one weeps, no one weeps.

"This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper." *

I awake as a Jew, an Arab
a Christian, a Hindu, Muslim
I awake a hollow man, as Eliot waves
in the distance, in the dust
an empty horizon awaits.



*from "The Hollow Men" by T.S. Elliot


Are a couple of examples. You might want to refer to some writing handbooks for more examples.

You act like the injured party here. I politely mentioned the problem in the review and you tried to ridicule me, saying I was confused about the poem. To make you understand what I was talking about I had to be more blunt. The simple fact of the matter is, you trampled on the words of the screenwriter for Zatoichi, using the words as part of the poem without acknowledging the fact that the words weren't yours.

You call yourself a poet Art, perhaps you should act like one. You are not the injured party here, the people you were trying to honor are. An edit of the poem is simply an acknowledgement that you made a mistake and that you intended to honor the Zatoichi tradition, not dishonor it. I tried to tell you this politely and when you missed the point completely I told you more bluntly.

jim : )

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Thanks jim for those examples
I don't feel wounded In fact I feel pretty good about the poem I followed the guidelines, I never call my self a poet, I'm not even close, you just have a hard time reading things over your big nose stuck up in the air. <laughing>

The comments at the bottom of the poem was explaining that this was all in the movie, why you can't read poems by any one other than your circle without disecting is way beyond me, perhaps your counselor could help you there.

Sorry if I stepped on your toes again, but you do tend to pick apart my work, I am not sure if your honeing me or wanting to 'bore' me, I get a pm here and there of how jims picking again, <laughing> but I understand your not gonna change the spots on a leopard or make some one change and be nicer.

I except you for who you are ...<grin>
thanks for the examples, I have one of those at the bottom of my poem I just didn't spell it out clear enough and you got confused again. sorry I'll try not to confuse you any more jim. I don't want to put you in any more a tail spin than you are already in.

 

[jthserra]

A definition...

Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: 'plA-j&-"rIz also -jE-&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -rized; -riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
transitive senses : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive senses : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
- pla·gia·riz·er noun


This definition is from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.



The notation at the bottom of the Zatoichi poem, quoted from My Erotic Tale's poem:

" (The infamous blind Samurai wandered the countryside of Japan in the early 1800s. The immortal 'Star' died in 1992. Zatoichis' natural charm, wit and quick sword won the hearts of many in a series of 26 Japanese movies, in the 1960s)"

There is no mention or even an implication of the source of the quotations.


I did not disect your poem, I raised the question of citing your sources. Read the definition above and then read your notation and tell me, did you properly cite the source of your quotations? Don't you think you should?

Had any other poet posted a poem on Wednesday that failed to cite their sources I would have made the same comments. The point here was too important and while I didn't believe you intentionally meant to plagarize something you were writing a tribute about, your continued resistance to go back and properly cite the souce of your quotes makes me wonder.

jim : )

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: 'plA-j&-"rIz also -jE-&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -rized; -riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
transitive senses : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive senses : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
- pla·gia·riz·er noun


This definition is from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.



The notation at the bottom of the Zatoichi poem, quoted from My Erotic Tale's poem:

" (The infamous blind Samurai wandered the countryside of Japan in the early 1800s. The immortal 'Star' died in 1992. Zatoichis' natural charm, wit and quick sword won the hearts of many in a series of 26 Japanese movies, in the 1960s)"

There is no mention or even an implication of the source of the quotations.


I did not disect your poem, I raised the question of citing your sources. Read the definition above and then read your notation and tell me, did you properly cite the source of your quotations? Don't you think you should?

Had any other poet posted a poem on Wednesday that failed to cite their sources I would have made the same comments. The point here was too important and while I didn't believe you intentionally meant to plagarize something you were writing a tribute about, your continued resistance to go back and properly cite the souce of your quotes makes me wonder.

jim : )

(Comment Removed)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Art, I was trying not to say anything, but what the fuck are you doing? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

You didn't quote the source of the quotes in your poem, nor did you even indicate they were quotes. You want to claim ignorance, fine. Say you didn't know what you were doing and shut the fuck up! It's painful to see this sort of behaviour, you know? Grow up!

 

[Angeline]

Uh.

I just read Art's poem. Ok, it has quotes in it, but it also has this at the end of the poem:

(The infamous blind Samurai wandered the countryside of Japan in the early 1800s. The immortal 'Star' died in 1992. Zatoichis' natural charm, wit and quick sword won the hearts of many in a series of 26 Japanese movies, in the 1960s)

That is, admittedly, not a direct reference to each quote (and having done the edit thing, I know what those are supposed to look like), but neither is the poem plagiarizing, imho.

Anyway, I slip quotes or references to them into my poems all the time. One of the poems I posted today has a quote from Macbeth "knit up the raveled sleeve of care," and a direct reference to John Donne's poem "Death Be Not Proud." I knew what they were when I put them in the poem and I didn't note either of them. Should I have? Maybe not because I suppose one could argue they're pretty famous and both too old to have copyright issues. But it's a gray area. And these *are* poems, not research papers. I'm not sure there's an absolutely correct way to go at it. If there is, I'll be pleased to be enlightened, but I doubt it's precise.

Personally, I would have handled it in a pm, but that's me.

Here's my take (not that anyone asked, but you know me). Art thought Jim was being pedantic. It pissed him off. We all get pissed off sometimes. It's called being human. I myself am very pissed at the coming foot of snow, but when it fights back, it will win.

I like Jim, I like Art, and I love my Lauren--even when she's hotheaded (it's the av--it makes her feisty). Mostly I love poetry and learning how to be better at writing it. We all do. That's why we're here. Right? (Of course, right.)