"To keep the review thread clean..."

[Tathagata]

Thank you, Tathagata, for noticing my poems and for the critique, you have helped me know where to go with the editing. I apologise for not even noticing that they were up and being reviewed. I've mostly watched the author's board and I was expecting that they would take two weeks or so like stories do. I guess, poems take less time to go through. Anyway, thanks for your comments. They are very helpful and encouraging.

My Pleasure, thank you for the poetry

 

[bogusbrig]

Thanks for the mention Ange and you were right about the poem needing polishing, if not a little over diplomatic about the quality of it. I ended up rewriting it and think I have ended up with a far better poem.

the Cheshire cat, bored of being a character in Wonderland
turned into a latter day Buddha with guns
out to shoot paternalist mammoths
squat men, in search of gravitas, broad shouldered
to carry the weighty affairs of state
men who made the world a complex place
instead of just doing the right thing

now cat’s grin is on a mission
an ego in search of a man
a cause in need of a heart
an actor in need of a stage
a wannabe hero with the power of right
who had the right to be right
the right to be liked, he liked to be liked
he needed to be liked and needed to be right
he was a confusion of wants, a tangle of needs
he had an ego to feed

meanwhile, Alice (this is not a poem about Alice)
increasingly perplexed, had escaped the restaurant
scrabbled in the garbage heap for philosophical nonsense
the menu of evidence to prove he was mad
‘we’re all mad here, you’re mad, I’m mad’ he dismissed
his cool charm and his smooth seduction, ever annoying

back before TV had been invented
being ugly was merely unfortunate
and he would have been just a pretty face
lies would still have been lies, conflict, still conflict
and being right was more than a cheesy grin
stretched across a face with thespian sincerity
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice;
"but a grin without a cat!
It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"
(forget Alice, this is not a poem about Alice)
nowadays, you just have to believe hard enough

 

[Angeline]

Thanks for the mention Ange and you were right about the poem needing polishing, if not a little over diplomatic about the quality of it. I ended up rewriting it and think I have ended up with a far better poem.

the Cheshire cat, bored of being a character in Wonderland
turned into a latter day Buddha with guns
out to shoot paternalist mammoths
squat men, in search of gravitas, broad shouldered
to carry the weighty affairs of state
men who made the world a complex place
instead of just doing the right thing

now cat’s grin is on a mission
an ego in search of a man
a cause in need of a heart
an actor in need of a stage
a wannabe hero with the power of right
who had the right to be right
the right to be liked, he liked to be liked
he needed to be liked and needed to be right
he was a confusion of wants, a tangle of needs
he had an ego to feed

meanwhile, Alice (this is not a poem about Alice)
increasingly perplexed, had escaped the restaurant
scrabbled in the garbage heap for philosophical nonsense
the menu of evidence to prove he was mad
‘we’re all mad here, you’re mad, I’m mad’ he dismissed
his cool charm and his smooth seduction, ever annoying

back before TV had been invented
being ugly was merely unfortunate
and he would have been just a pretty face
lies would still have been lies, conflict, still conflict
and being right was more than a cheesy grin
stretched across a face with thespian sincerity
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice;
"but a grin without a cat!
It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"
(forget Alice, this is not a poem about Alice)
nowadays, you just have to believe hard enough

Maybe I was overly diplomatic but I had a sense of its potential once you edited or rewrote it. I'm glad you moved that Cheshire Cat image to the forefront because it was the one that really grabbed me when I read it. Maybe it's that we're the same generation (or close anyway lol), but the notion of that grin becoming symbolic of much more than Alice's cat as one grows older really worked for me.

 

[KOLKORE]

Thanks for variation no. 2 of "Mr Right" (and my two cents on both)

Thanks for the mention Ange and you were right about the poem needing polishing, if not a little over diplomatic about the quality of it. I ended up rewriting it and think I have ended up with a far better poem.

the Cheshire cat, bored of being a character in Wonderland
turned into a latter day Buddha with guns
out to shoot paternalist mammoths
squat men, in search of gravitas, broad shouldered
to carry the weighty affairs of state
men who made the world a complex place
instead of just doing the right thing

now cat’s grin is on a mission
an ego in search of a man
a cause in need of a heart
an actor in need of a stage
a wannabe hero with the power of right
who had the right to be right
the right to be liked, he liked to be liked
he needed to be liked and needed to be right
he was a confusion of wants, a tangle of needs
he had an ego to feed

meanwhile, Alice (this is not a poem about Alice)
increasingly perplexed, had escaped the restaurant
scrabbled in the garbage heap for philosophical nonsense
the menu of evidence to prove he was mad
‘we’re all mad here, you’re mad, I’m mad’ he dismissed
his cool charm and his smooth seduction, ever annoying

back before TV had been invented
being ugly was merely unfortunate
and he would have been just a pretty face
lies would still have been lies, conflict, still conflict
and being right was more than a cheesy grin
stretched across a face with thespian sincerity
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice;
"but a grin without a cat!
It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"
(forget Alice, this is not a poem about Alice)
nowadays, you just have to believe hard enough

Hey there,
The way I see it, you have not as much polished the first version of the poem but created quite a different one –interesting and strong, but different. I liked some things you had in the first version like the paradoxical ending “If you are in doubt about what is right /You haven/t read this poem”. For this kind of lines I believe Carroll would have given you an approving nod and a smile. Another feature which charmed me in the first version was the riddle using the play with contrasts which again is so reminiscent of the logical and of course satirical Ad absurdum “Alice in the wonderland”. For example very much in the same venue of the smile with no cat: “an ego in search of a man / a cause in need of a heart and so on.
If polishing might have further improved this poem, I agree it would have been at the last stanza (except for the amazing first line there!). The way I see it, in an effort to mold the more strait forward stated language stanza into the framework of the rest of the poem.

The second version is clearer, which in one way is a plus and in another maybe a bit of a minus per the riddle and mysteries style of the main literary framework which the poem alludes to both thematically and stylistically. In the new version (or variation no 2) I liked the addition of Alice at the end. I am of two minds reg. the addition of the ‘other Alice’ to this version. On one hand it feels like a bit of a mixed metaphor, on the other hand (and another read) I take it as ‘all the Alices have to be recruited to counter this new mastisized version of the smile with no cat…’. So for now it’s still a draw in my teased mind…
The last two lines at the end of the second version are a bit of an over statement IMO. Both your poem(s) showed as much so well! My secret (no more) wish is, instead - add (for version three perhaps) the first –last two lines (maybe as a separate short stanza): “(And) if you are in doubt about what is right / perhaps you haven’t read this poem “
Thanks much for both!

 

[Angeline]

Hey there,
The way I see it, you have not as much polished the first version of the poem but created quite a different one –interesting and strong, but different. I liked some things you had in the first version like the paradoxical ending “If you are in doubt about what is right /You haven/t read this poem”. For this kind of lines I believe Carroll would have given you an approving nod and a smile. Another feature which charmed me in the first version was the riddle using the play with contrasts which again is so reminiscent of the logical and of course satirical Ad absurdum “Alice in the wonderland”. For example very much in the same venue of the smile with no cat: “an ego in search of a man / a cause in need of a heart and so on.
If polishing might have further improved this poem, I agree it would have been at the last stanza (except for the amazing first line there!). The way I see it, in an effort to mold the more strait forward stated language stanza into the framework of the rest of the poem.

The second version is clearer, which in one way is a plus and in another maybe a bit of a minus per the riddle and mysteries style of the main literary framework which the poem alludes to both thematically and stylistically. In the new version (or variation no 2) I liked the addition of Alice at the end. I am of two minds reg. the addition of the ‘other Alice’ to this version. On one hand it feels like a bit of a mixed metaphor, on the other hand (and another read) I take it as ‘all the Alices have to be recruited to counter this new mastisized version of the smile with no cat…’. So for now it’s still a draw in my teased mind…
The last two lines at the end of the second version are a bit of an over statement IMO. Both your poem(s) showed as much so well! My secret (no more) wish is, instead - add (for version three perhaps) the first –last two lines (maybe as a separate short stanza): “(And) if you are in doubt about what is right / perhaps you haven’t read this poem “
Thanks much for both!

I basically agree with you, Kolkore, that BB didn't so much edit as he did rewrite the poem around one (what I thought was the strongest) image in the original piece. It just goes to show, too, how differently readers perceive a poem. To me, the last few lines in the original version were the weakest ones. Of course, the main thing is whether Bogus is satisfied with what he wrote. I've often found, too, that when I begin to edit a poem it goes in another direction than I thought it would, and I end up with something different from the original and from what I expected. I wonder if you and others here experience that. I suspect it happens a lot.

 

[KOLKORE]

Another moment another poem

... I've often found, too, that when I begin to edit a poem it goes in another direction than I thought it would, and I end up with something different from the original and from what I expected. I wonder if you and others here experience that. I suspect it happens a lot.

I know; "You can't cross the same river twice" I guess...

 

[wildsweetone]

I basically agree with you, Kolkore, that BB didn't so much edit as he did rewrite the poem around one (what I thought was the strongest) image in the original piece. It just goes to show, too, how differently readers perceive a poem. To me, the last few lines in the original version were the weakest ones. Of course, the main thing is whether Bogus is satisfied with what he wrote. I've often found, too, that when I begin to edit a poem it goes in another direction than I thought it would, and I end up with something different from the original and from what I expected. I wonder if you and others here experience that. I suspect it happens a lot.

and

I know; "You can't cross the same river twice" I guess...

that's a heck of an image KOLKORE. and very apt.

i find it too, but i don't edit enough. i'll often find myself writing from different perspectives on the exact same subject and coming up with very different poems each time. i do it on purpose sometimes, just to get better depth and better understanding on my thoughts of the subject. sometimes i'll take the 'best feel' from each and combine them into one.


BB,
line 1 - i'd leave it simply as 'the Cheshire cat' - is there another famous Cheshire cat? or maybe 'the bored Cheshire cat of Wonderland', if absolutely necessary.

i'd take out 'hard enough' in that last line. in stanza two, i'd think about reducing one of the lines, perhaps 'an ego in search of a man' (apart from that being almost cliche sounding, i think it might appeal more to have three things, not four).

otherwise i really like this poem. i love how the last six lines of stanza 2 read... so smooth and easy. awesome.

 

[Paris_Garters]

To Lebroz

thank you for reviewing my poems so kindly. I had good help from Tathagata in making For the Osiris much better. I appreciate your time

It's funny, I had the title "How I Learn to Love You From Water" for the one poem, but it wouldn't fit in the title line so I changed it, and I think it's a better title now.

Anyway, thanks.

 

[bogusbrig]

Ange, Kolklore, WSO. Thanks for chipping in. I guess I did write a different poem, that always happens when I edit which I suppose is not unique to me. I was wondering if anyone would get the second Alice reference as opposed to the Alice in wonderland refences. Though on reflection one needs to be of a certain age to stand a chance of getting it but it seemed appropriate and compliments the nonsense tone of the poem as a whole. (forget Alice, this is not a poem about Alice)

Alice's Restaurant

 

[Under_Sun]

thanks NJ for the kind comments and LeBroz for mentioning my two poems up yesterday

 

[Angeline]

File this under other chit chat

I just read that Doris Lessing has won the 2007 Nobel Prize for Literature. I remember reading The Golden Notebook in college and, even though it was a struggle to get through at the time, thinking what a brilliant artist she is. She tackles issues of social justice with passion and grace. I think I'm going to reread it.

And yes she writes poetry, too. I couldn't find any of her poems on the web (not that I looked that hard) to post here. Anyone have a link to her poetry?

Anyone think Al Gore will win the Nobel Peace Prize? At first him winning that seemed incongruous to me. What does global warming have to do with peace? Then I thought of Iraq. Duh.

 

[KOLKORE]

It would be good for Gore; good for the earth; good for us

...Anyone think Al Gore will win the Nobel Peace Prize? At first him winning that seemed incongruous to me. What does global warming have to do with peace? Then I thought of Iraq. Duh.

I hope so. Many (most?) wars have been on the control and /or access to energy/ food /water resources.
If raising consciousness to the imminent impact of global warming isn't worth some sort of recognition as a contribution towards world peace I don't know what is.

 

[normal jean]

I just read that Doris Lessing has won the 2007 Nobel Prize for Literature. I remember reading The Golden Notebook in college and, even though it was a struggle to get through at the time, thinking what a brilliant artist she is. She tackles issues of social justice with passion and grace. I think I'm going to reread it.

And yes she writes poetry, too. I couldn't find any of her poems on the web (not that I looked that hard) to post here. Anyone have a link to her poetry?

Anyone think Al Gore will win the Nobel Peace Prize? At first him winning that seemed incongruous to me. What does global warming have to do with peace? Then I thought of Iraq. Duh.

I also hope he does, but fear that who he is might work against him. I'm hoping the selection committee isn't "like that".

I learned something recently, about the thawing at the Arctic circle. I expected that, having read about it happening for so long. But a while back, there was a story about the Russians, ( forgive me if I get their "name" wrong" but they planted a flag at the top of the world. It wasn't until the news last night that I first heard why that was a big deal.

Scientists suspect there are millions of barrels of oil under all that which is now thawing. will that be WWIII?

I hope Al wins. and I hope Hillary does too.

Thank you for posting the name of that author. We covered part of her work briefly in sociology class and over time I forgot that I wanted to read that. Maybe you should suggest a book a week? I always find myself in the non-fiction section at the library and wind up with books on psychology and tectonic plates. I find I limit myself when it comes to reading "good stuff", even in the non-fiction section and don't even realize it until someone brings up a subject like this.

 

[Angeline]

I also hope he does, but fear that who he is might work against him. I'm hoping the selection committee isn't "like that".

I learned something recently, about the thawing at the Arctic circle. I expected that, having read about it happening for so long. But a while back, there was a story about the Russians, ( forgive me if I get their "name" wrong" but they planted a flag at the top of the world. It wasn't until the news last night that I first heard why that was a big deal.

Scientists suspect there are millions of barrels of oil under all that which is now thawing. will that be WWIII?

I hope Al wins. and I hope Hillary does too.

Thank you for posting the name of that author. We covered part of her work briefly in sociology class and over time I forgot that I wanted to read that. Maybe you should suggest a book a week? I always find myself in the non-fiction section at the library and wind up with books on psychology and tectonic plates. I find I limit myself when it comes to reading "good stuff", even in the non-fiction section and don't even realize it until someone brings up a subject like this.

The Golden Notebook is a novel and it was a struggle for me because interspersed with the "story" is a great deal of information about South African politics. It's sort of like reading Les Miserables in that you have all this delicious human interaction and then there's 60 pages on the sewer system of Paris. Oy.

We should start a book recommendations thread though. That's an excellent idea. If you don't do it in the next few days, I will.

 

[KOLKORE]

One more to go

... I hope Al wins. and I hope Hillary does too.

Al is taken care of, now for Hilary!

 

[normal jean]

... I hope Al wins. and I hope Hillary does too.

Al is taken care of, now for Hilary!

woo hoo! Thanks for the info.

oh yeah, I changed my light bulbs last week, month, I cant keep track of time... lol. I hope that helps. But what it will do, and I encourage everyone to spend that extra 3 bucks per bulb...

by changing out our old bulbs for the new energy saving ones, ( if everyone did this) the power we would save would be the equivalent of being able to close 80 EIGHTY coal fired power plants. And I got this info from the Bill Clinton interview on Oprah. I changed my bulbs the next day...

I work power plants. PLease you guys, PUT ME OUT OF WORK!

 

[annaswirls]

Cheers to Normal Jean and Kolkolore for leaving so many comments this week!

 

[normal jean]

The Golden Notebook is a novel and it was a struggle for me because interspersed with the "story" is a great deal of information about South African politics. It's sort of like reading Les Miserables in that you have all this delicious human interaction and then there's 60 pages on the sewer system of Paris. Oy.

We should start a book recommendations thread though. That's an excellent idea. If you don't do it in the next few days, I will.

I was watching BBC world news late last night and they had a segment on Ms Lessing. The reporter said she is the oldest person to ever win for Literature and that at one time, The Committee actually sent someone to let her know how much they disapproved of her work. So I guess they can be "like that." I betcha her work will be impossible to find at the library for a long while to come.

You can start the thread sis, I don't keep up good with threads and am a terrible moderator. I will contribute though, if you start it.

 

[LeBroz]

There are no new poems posted as yet today. Maybe Jamis, Champers and I will all get the day off. I'll check back later.

And Kolkore let me echo NJ in saying it's nice to see you active and posting here. I'm really enjoying reading your opinions.

Okay guys — SOL — just saw 17 or so just appeared. Last time Carrie took off Friday, none were posted. Can't beat the odds all the time.

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[unpredictablebijou]

I didn't want to mess up the Fall STC thread with comments, but I had to say this: Liar, your latest one, "between flash mobs" is really solid. It's all good but I particularly loved the first four lines. Tight, exact, vivid. Most excellent.

bj

 

[Angeline]

Okay guys — SOL — just saw 17 or so just appeared. Last time Carrie took off Friday, none were posted. Can't beat the odds all the time.

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Ack. I've been running errands and cleaning, just got back online: thanks for telling me Leon.

The reviews will definitely be done before 7:00 est so I can be glued to the Red Sox/Indians game tonight!

 

[Guest]

.......

 

[Angeline]

-Angeline. Thanks for doing those New Poem Reviews. I wasn't able sit down and do them until late in the evening.

You're welcome.

I figured as much. And I was just hanging around home cooking and waiting for the playoff game to start.

 

[anonamouse]

Cheers to Normal Jean and Kolkolore for leaving so many comments this week!

seconded

 

[Angeline]

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No one stepping up to the plate so far to tackle the Sunday games. Guess I'll do a quicky of 3 that caught my eye out of an easy 9 posted today.

Added: I see anonamouse did step up as I was finishing proofing this.

hippiedude is back. You remember him, don't you? It's only been a couple years. Up today is his Irrelevant To The Kabbala. I sensed a religious seeming overtone here and found, on further checking, that the Kabbala is a type of study of the Torah more familiar to the Orthodox Jew. Relax, it's not any type of religious message, but knowing the meaning of the term does help in appreciating the context. Go ahead and give it a read.


anonamouse has a satirical piece where religion and politics mix. Or is that irreverant? In Apocalypso, there are several pointed barbs, such as:

This captures the spirit of the writing throughout and can be enjoyed by most, except the thin-skinned who view their religion or politics as beyond reproach and sacred, never to be mocked.


Finally, pipedream_ink has a prosey piece up in his continuing series, War Diaries Day Twelve. If you're familiar with the series, you'll know what to expect.


That's it for now. There are six other pieces that might suit your tastes. Go on and read, vote, comment ~ it's the least you can do. Above all, comment ~ a fair exchange for the pleasure of reading free poetry.

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Irrelevant to the Kabbala is a great title. It makes me want to read that poem.