Trust and Honesty...opinions please

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: Dream Lady

btw ask Lance sometimes why He never posts to ME? does He wanna see me cry? hmmm ..geez lol

Hi Dream;

I noticed your earlier aside to me and then this one above, so I thought I'd drop you a line to say "hi". Hi.

I've been kinda watchin' you and Art do the gooey luv dance, smiling from the side of the dance floor at the two of you....so I've not really posted much to either of you since you went back north, though I did keep Art company a couple of late nights while you were in transit, I think, with some of my silly stuff.

Good to see you, enjoying your posts;
Lance

 

[A Desert Rose]

Rose

(And therein lies my biggest fear- getting to a place where I can bare all to another. )

Magic has a way of exploding from a direction that you seldom expect.

I am watching you grow before My very eyes as you begin to trust your own voice. It pleases Me to have you join the journey of these threads meant to test reality.

Have we not determined that truth and honesty are not the same thing? (Oh my god, 2 double negatives in one sentence again- sheeesh) If that is the case, and I believe it is, then the degree of pain involved for the listener as well as the teller can be immense. That risk can include something as severe as abandonment. So, the consequences of truth and honesty bear a deep amount of consideration in order to prepare for the possible eventuality of the pain.

Did I like, take a left at the fork in the road and everyone else is hiking down the right side?

Rose

 

[Shadowsdream]

Dream

Would you feel comfortable disclosing so much to any Dom that you were considering or was there something special about Artful that gave you the feeling of safety in the first moments of conversation?

 

[zipman]

Clarification

To all who have read this thread.

I fucked up. Period. I meant to type it is not honest and then I changed it to dishonest and forgot to remove the negative.

For the record, in the example I posted, if someone asks you if you have an STD and you say no when you do it IS dishonest. It is NOT honest.

Cym, I don't feel attacked, I just feel like an idiot for making that mistake. I am going to go back and edit the text.

I apologize to all who have read this for the editorial error.

 

[Shadowsdream]

jewel

(i have found many people can duck and dodge that self-evaluation while still mouthing the truth,)

Yes it happens often and is one of the fastest way to end credibility. But don't you find the answer lies in the eyes?

The body language?


Nice to meet you and thank you for joining in the conversation

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Clarification

To all who have read this thread.

I fucked up. Period. I meant to type it is not honest and then I changed it to dishonest and forgot to remove the negative.

For the record, in the example I posted, if someone asks you if you have an STD and you say no when you do it IS dishonest. It is NOT honest.

Cym, I don't feel attacked, I just feel like an idiot for making that mistake. I am going to go back and edit the text.

I apologize to all who have read this for the editorial error.

When I read your original post I figured something was out of whack for you - just didn't make sense!

And, hey, we all have those days sometimes. Some of us more than others. *as she looks at herself in the mirror*

 

[Shadowsdream]

Rose

The road is full of forks and everything you said on this subject makes perfect sense to Me.

There are so many takes on the subject that every bend in the road is something new to consider.

To accept or reject as it fits each in the moment without losing sight
of the most basic understanding that trust in D/s cannot exist on either side if the desire is to hedge honesty.

 

[Persephone36]

I've been wanting to say something on this thread for a few days...but unlike the normal verbose me I couldn't get it together.

I think that honesty has levels to it (and I apologize if someone has already really addressed this.) For the true emotionally mature person -- they know that there's a step past owning up to an affair behind a partner's back. There are times in certain situations and amongst particular individuals -- that for the relationship to proceed -- a full disclosure is required.

But I have seen many, many adults -- amongst my friends and their partners own up to something that does nothing but assuage the guilt in the mind of the one who had the affair. I heard my friend's be devastated and come to me and tell me that the person told them because they thought they deserved to know the whole truth. In these particular instances -- the disclosure does *nothing* but hurt the person it was told to. Because the affair had nothing to do with them. It related nothing to the relationship. That telling them, in that instance, is completely selfish and ego-driven. There's no thought of the responsibilty inherent in honesty.

I've talked on and off to my therapist about this. Because I'm an unusually open and straightforward person. I don't dissemble as much as I can help it. I also don't say hurtful things to someone if they've asked for truth -- and I know that hearing ALL my piece of mind would be cruel. That's not to say that I don't on occasion say hurtful things if I feel I've been attacked or misused. But that's something else. I express my anger honestly, I express my love honestly. But I know that expressing them comes with responsibilty. You have to be willing to think ahead of time of the import of your words on another human being. So straight unblemished honesty -- is not the goal I feel. I think supporting the other person you care for with all your ability while trying to honestly get your needs met and keep communication open is my goal.

As far as trust, lol. That I'll have to get back to you on. Not one I'm so good with.

P.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Zip

Nice recovery and not unexpected as intellect has seemed to be a strong suit.

The damn keyboard can certainly cause havoc~with My typing and of course that Submit Reply button pushes itself before I have a chance to correct My spelling mistakes.

I must admit I have more than My fair share of them.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Perse

Yahoo.com

The word *responsibility* nestled against *honesty* fits perfectly for *reality*

They make the perfect threesome. For honesty does take responsibility.

Thank you for joining the conversation in your usual well thought out and contemplative way.

 

[Persephone36]

Thank you Shadowsdream.

I always enjoy the topics you post on. Some of which are just out of my realm of experience -- I read them nonetheless. And I thoroughly appreciate the way you facilitate the progression of the ideas and contributions in the thread.

Really, it's my pleasure to post on one of your threads. Lol, except it means I *really* have to think out what I'm saying a bit in advance -- because I take my response seriously. (I should have spell checked this last one more carefully too!)


P.

 

[zipman]

Thank you Shadowsdream.

I always enjoy the topics you post on. Some of which are just out of my realm of experience -- I read them nonetheless. And I thoroughly appreciate the way you facilitate the progression of the ideas and contributions in the thread.

Really, it's my pleasure to post on one of your threads. Lol, except it means I *really* have to think out what I'm saying a bit in advance -- because I take my response seriously. (I should have spell checked this last one more carefully too!)


P.

Shadowsdream and SexyChele,

Thanks for your kind words. While I normally would not beat myself up over a mistake, I am on this one. It is bad enough that I posted the exact opposite of what I was trying to say. but the thing that bothered me most was because Cym took the time to respond to an error. I wasted her time, and I would have felt worse if others had done that too.

On to other things. Not only was Perse's post right on the money, but she touched upon something that I felt was important to reiterate. You, Shadowsdream, do an amazing job of facilitating the discussion on a thread. It really is amazing and you do it so well that I never even realized it was happening. When Perse mentioned it, it was like a lightbulb went off for me. I then realized that this is probably the reason that all the threads that you start are so enjoyable to read.

A and a for the great job you are doing in teaching us "newbies" how it is done!!

 

[Desdemona]

Yes it happens often and is one of the fastest way to end credibility. But don't you find the answer lies in the eyes?

The body language?

I used to think I could tell alot by looking into someone's eyes and watching their body language as we talked. Recent experiences have caused me to have less confidence in my ability to discern the truth. I'm adding a grain of salt to most interactions these days and it saddens me.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I used to think I could tell alot by looking into someone's eyes and watching their body language as we talked. Recent experiences have caused me to have less confidence in my ability to discern the truth. I'm adding a grain of salt to most interactions these days and it saddens me.

People can be very slick and deceptive. And it is sad that we have to be more cautious. One thing I have learned is that, usually my first impressions are pretty valid and on the mark. When I am wrong, it hurts and makes me doubt myself. I should be more forgiving of myself for making an err in judgement. I hate disappointment and I especially hate disappointing myself.

Just a side note:
One does not have the ability to look into the speakers eyes or watch his hand movements when you converse and meet online. So there is a distinct disadvantage to building relationships here. And the building of trust with an individual is extremely difficult online. So many misunderstandings, misreadings, etc. come into play. I have a tendency to believe that most people I meet online are just like me. When that does not turn out to be the case, I am let down.

Rose

 

[Desdemona]

People can be very slick and deceptive. And it is sad that we have to be more cautious. One thing I have learned is that, usually my first impressions are pretty valid and on the mark. When I am wrong, it hurts and makes me doubt myself. I should be more forgiving of myself for making an err in judgement. I hate disappointment and I especially hate disappointing myself.

Just a side note:
One does not have the ability to look into the speakers eyes or watch his hand movements when you converse and meet online. So there is a distinct disadvantage to building relationships here. And the building of trust with an individual is extremely difficult online. So many misunderstandings, misreadings, etc. come into play. I have a tendency to believe that most people I meet online are just like me. When that does not turn out to be the case, I am let down.

Rose

We agree yet again. Des

 

[Ebonyfire]

We agree yet again. Des

You two had better stop that. People will talk.

Eb

 

[zipman]

<Snip>

Just a side note:
One does not have the ability to look into the speakers eyes or watch his hand movements when you converse and meet online. So there is a distinct disadvantage to building relationships here. And the building of trust with an individual is extremely difficult online. So many misunderstandings, misreadings, etc. come into play. I have a tendency to believe that most people I meet online are just like me. When that does not turn out to be the case, I am let down.

Rose

Exellent point Rose!! It is more difficult online without those visual cues to help you read a person.

 

[Desdemona]

You two had better stop that. People will talk.

Eb

OMG! My reputation will be ruined!

 

[Ebonyfire]

OMG! My reputation will be ruined!

ROTFL

Eb

 

[cymbidia]

While I normally would not beat myself up over a mistake, I am on this one. It is bad enough that I posted the exact opposite of what I was trying to say. but the thing that bothered me most was because Cym took the time to respond to an error. I wasted her time, and I would have felt worse if others had done that too.

Zipman? If there's any beating goingon, can i get in on it? I'm kinda fond of the recieving end, of course. You don't mind if we trade sides...?

Honestly, i learn as much from asking for clarification, and attempting to articulate why i'm confused, as i do from, well, other ways of learning stuff. The time i took to respond to your "error" was good thinking time for me. I'm interested in this subject anyway and that just helped me clarify some straggly thoughts.

Don't give it any more time in your brain, okay?

 

[zipman]

Zipman? If there's any beating goingon, can i get in on it? I'm kinda fond of the recieving end, of course. You don't mind if we trade sides...?

Honestly, i learn as much from asking for clarification, and attempting to articulate why i'm confused, as i do from, well, other ways of learning stuff. The time i took to respond to your "error" was good thinking time for me. I'm interested in this subject anyway and that just helped me clarify some straggly thoughts.

Don't give it any more time in your brain, okay?

Thanks, I was just pretty annoyed at myself. I'm glad that you were able to learn from my stupidity. If that is the case, then we should talk more...you could learn a lot

 

[A Desert Rose]

You two had better stop that. People will talk.

Eb

let them talk Eb, I could do much worse than Des..... she's a gem.

Rose

 

[A Desert Rose]

Thanks Zip

Exellent point Rose!! It is more difficult online without those visual cues to help you read a person.

thank you. And back to a thread I originally tried to start and died---- I think there is much mystery and romance online. More risk and danger too, if you will. I know many here will think disparagingly of me for this but I have made some extremely wonderful friends online.

Rose

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Thanks Zip

thank you. And back to a thread I originally tried to start and died---- I think there is much mystery and romance online. More risk and danger too, if you will. I know many here will think disparagingly of me for this but I have made some extremely wonderful friends online.

Rose

Sweetie, there is nothing wrong with making friends online as long as we're careful and remain aware of the risks and dangers. I suspect most of us get burned at one point or another with online friendships/romances. But, really, we get burned in RL relationships also. So, I will continue making friends both OL and in RL. I count you as one of my "online friends". Next time I come to Vegas, perhaps we can do lunch and convert it to a real life friendship.

 

[Shadowsdream]

hey?

Did I hear something about a meeting in Vegas?

Hmmmm cocktails..cat tails...toenails..and the one arm bandit!

I have met many wonderful online friends and many that have become real time friends from all over the world.

I expect this trend to continue in My life and yes I agree though it would be preferable to be able to take all at face value it has never been reality even before the net.

A grain of salt is healthy in all diets..it is the salt over load that is as dangerous as no salt at all.