Trust and Honesty...opinions please

[luvsubbbbb]

Honesty and Trust

Two extremely innocent and unassuming words. Study them. Think about them. Taste them. Inhale them. Devour them. Commit to them if your desires take you past the bedroom games of Domination and submission and into the lifestyle you say you crave. Without one the other cannot exist.
Honesty is the backbone of integrity and tests the vulnerability of a submissive as he or she lays their life completely open at the feet of the Dominant they have chosen to present the gift of their submission to.

A word that speaks volumes that so many never even think about. So easily the single word * honest!* without a thought of the consequences to the subtleties of slight deceptions in the purity of the statement, can pass the lips before they pass the brain.

Honesty has no less importance when it is presented by the Dominant. To mouth the word in insincerety shows Her weakness. Her honesty must be in all things and at all times for it is the strength of Her committment.One digression can bring down Her house of cards.

as per usual, i agree with everything that You say, Mistress Shadowsdream

to add a few meanings aside from the literal meanings:

HONESTY to me is being true to oneself, not just in the expression of words, but also in actions and display of feelings.....to not hold back a single thing.....to let the Dominant into ones soul.......to be bared just as a sub/slave bares his/her body

and a display of TRUST in a submissive is the ability to "let go" to a Dominant, to place ones body and mind into the hands of the One to whom it is entrusted to.....and to feel safe and secure in that wonderful dynamic.....to feel the caring in His/Her voice and hands.........to accept direction and control as if it was thought of by oneself

 

[WillowPuss]

Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

HONESTY to me is being true to oneself, not just in the expression of words, but also in actions and display of feelings.....to not hold back a single thing.....to let the Dominant into ones soul.......to be bared just as a sub/slave bares his/her body

I agree here.

You need to be totally and brually honest with yourself if you are to stand even the slightest chance of being open and honest with another.

If you are not honest with yourself, you are then hiding something from the Dom/me ... and thus not being honest with them.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Variances in communication styles, especially in newer relationships, can sometimes have a very real effect on the perception of the truth and honesty going on between partners.

Tex is taciturn.
I am not.

Tex thinks his feelings and responses through, mulls them over, and doesn't use ten words when two will do.

I have words to spare in every situation and use them with intensity and abandon, heaping them atop each other in a blaze of verbal excess.

Tex keeps his own counsel.

I seek mine and hers and his and thiers and mine again and ponder it all aloud.

We aren't alike in this matter of communication and it's led to a few times of doubt and hurt feelings, at least on my part.

However, if we both get said what we need to say, if we feel heard, if we talk it over enough so that we both feel the subject, whatever it is, has been settled and attended to, then that's what's important. It is then, within the intersection of our very different communication styles, that trust and honesty can grow roots and, eventually, set seed between us.

How well you have presented the complexities of human nature and all of O/our diverstities that cause each to need differing avenues to communication.

Which ever avenue used needs still to get past the stop sign at the end of the road so that the destination can be met eventually.

It takes honesty in admitting that the diversities can sometimes make the journey bumpy and trust in one self that all bumps can be smoothed over.

Those truths and honesties become the back bone of a solid relationship in My opinion.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

as per usual, i agree with everything that You say, Mistress Shadowsdream

to add a few meanings aside from the literal meanings:

HONESTY to me is being true to oneself, not just in the expression of words, but also in actions and display of feelings.....to not hold back a single thing.....to let the Dominant into ones soul.......to be bared just as a sub/slave bares his/her body

and a display of TRUST in a submissive is the ability to "let go" to a Dominant, to place ones body and mind into the hands of the One to whom it is entrusted to.....and to feel safe and secure in that wonderful dynamic.....to feel the caring in His/Her voice and hands.........to accept direction and control as if it was thought of by oneself

In the honesty to oneself do you feel that the Dominant must also bare Her emotions in a display of feelings or should She be able to stand back out of the shadow of emotion just enough to look into the fears and uncertainty of the submissive She chooses as her own?

Should a Dominant in your opinion, put Her trust in the submissive to be open and forth coming or should She have to dig past the words " i submit" to see where the submission really lies?

I pick on you luvsubbb for these questions simply because I know you will not take the queastions personally but as a joy to discypher (sp?)

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

I agree here.

You need to be totally and brually honest with yourself if you are to stand even the slightest chance of being open and honest with another.

If you are not honest with yourself, you are then hiding something from the Dom/me ... and thus not being honest with them.

ya nailed that one on the head subbie girl.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

In the honesty to oneself do you feel that the Dominant must also bare Her emotions in a display of feelings or should She be able to stand back out of the shadow of emotion just enough to look into the fears and uncertainty of the submissive She chooses as her own?

Should a Dominant in your opinion, put Her trust in the submissive to be open and forth coming or should She have to dig past the words " i submit" to see where the submission really lies?

I pick on you luvsubbb for these questions simply because I know you will not take the queastions personally but as a joy to discypher (sp?)

.......and i accept the challenge of Your last paragraph, Mistress Shadowsdream, and hope that i do justice to the deciphering responsibility You hath bestowed upon me .........

i believe that there must be a reason for one to do what one does........

the reason a submissive must bare his EMOTIONS has as much to do with giving information for his Dominant to process and act accordingly as it is an obligation of his to be an open book for Her because She expects and deserves it.........

a submissive should receive emotion from his Dominant ONLY insofar as it makes it clear to him how to act in the future, but NOT because the Dominant is obligated to him to show it for his benefit

i am not sure She should be holding back in order to arise fears and uncertainties in him, tho.......but their existence should not necessarily be a reason for Her to feel She has to coddle him...

as far as TRUST is concerned, since it is the Dominants accepted responsibility to care for the well-being of Her charge, it behooves Her to look beyond what the submissive openly expresses so that She can anticipate his future words and actions and direct him at a higher level........

getting inside his head is very important and not all submissives express their feelings as well and as readily as they should.....fears and insecurities are often at the forefront of their reasons, and only with the passage of time and building of trust on the part of the submissive will they reduce to a satisfactory level......

so.....my answer to Your question is 1) NO quid pro quo EMOTION..... and 2) NO blind TRUST

respectfully submitted,

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

.......and i accept the challenge of Your last paragraph, Mistress Shadowsdream, and hope that i do justice to the deciphering responsibility You hath bestowed upon me .........

i believe that there must be a reason for one to do what one does........

the reason a submissive must bare his EMOTIONS has as much to do with giving information for his Dominant to process and act accordingly as it is an obligation of his to be an open book for Her because She expects and deserves it.........

a submissive should receive emotion from his Dominant ONLY insofar as it makes it clear to him how to act in the future, but NOT because the Dominant is obligated to him to show it for his benefit

i am not sure She should be holding back in order to arise fears and uncertainties in him, tho.......but their existence should not necessarily be a reason for Her to feel She has to coddle him...

as far as TRUST is concerned, since it is the Dominants accepted responsibility to care for the well-being of Her charge, it behooves Her to look beyond what the submissive openly expresses so that She can anticipate his future words and actions and direct him at a higher level........

getting inside his head is very important and not all submissives express their feelings as well and as readily as they should.....fears and insecurities are often at the forefront of their reasons, and only with the passage of time and building of trust on the part of the submissive will they reduce to a satisfactory level......

so.....my answer to Your question is 1) NO quid pro quo EMOTION..... and 2) NO blind TRUST

respectfully submitted,

~~~grinning~~~ Domme here luvsubbb

I applaud your response to such a pointed discussion and never doubted you would respond in depth and with clarity. I know you have thought the answers out long before I asked the question so I knew it would not tax you to much.

Dominants must get inside the head of the submissive not as an obligation but as a NEED. Her need to be one step ahead to keep the relationship exciting, safe and growing at a speed that is necessary for both of their self worths.

Thank you for continuing this discussion

 

[cellis]

I am not one who trusts easily or well.

But when I place my trust in someone it is a commitment I make to them. And my trust in someone is as much a gift as my submission.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I am not one who trusts easily or well.

But when I place my trust in someone it is a commitment I make to them. And my trust in someone is as much a gift as my submission.

May I ask if you resist trust in any way for any reason that you are aware of or is it common sense more than anything that guides you here?

I am so pleased you are adding to the conversation cellis ~~~smile~~

 

[cellis]

May I ask if you resist trust in any way for any reason that you are aware of or is it common sense more than anything that guides you here?

I am so pleased you are adding to the conversation cellis ~~~smile~~

Gee I was never accused of having common sense before... lol..

I have been thinking about this subject a lot lately.

I don't think that I resist trusting others persay... I think that I have found in the past that if I place my trust in others, I have been dissapointed or hurt. So withholding some part of that for myself protects me to a certain degree.

If I don't place too much trust in others then I have less expectations in them and am less inclined to be hurt. I know that I operate from a mode of protecting the organism. My need for self presevation is great.

Perhaps not the best place to be at times... and it is something that I work on with Himself on a daily basis.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

<snip>
i was not honest with myself, i didn't look inside to see if i was truly doing what was right for me...(i swear this isn't poor poor pitiful me hour)...as i watched and experienced my life over the years evolve into discontent and unhappiness, i began to realize that i had to take a good hard look inside...and i found a lie...a boldfaced lie...i wasn't what i needed to be...i wasn't letting myself be who i was...
<snip>
It's only been in the last few years that i've realized this and done some serious soul searching, some educating of myself, some learning from others that i am finally starting to understand myself and how to be so truthful to my own heart and soul and body...

How can i possibly be honest to another if i can't or haven't been honest with myself?

As for trust...it is vitally important to me. Can i trust myself, my heart, my soul, my mind to do what is right for ME? i am learning, i am trying... Can i trust another with my heart and soul and body and mind to not harm me? Again, i am learning and trying.

These are the most painfully honest words i've seen in this whole thread, belle. I read them when you first posted them, but i didn't hear the struggle and pain you were conveying. I'm amazed at your strength in the face of such gut-level revising of the core truths of your life. I hope your journey continues on as you need, now that you've made the wrenching change into living with an awareness of who and what you are.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

.......and i accept the challenge of Your last paragraph, Mistress Shadowsdream, and hope that i do justice to the deciphering responsibility You hath bestowed upon me .........

i believe that there must be a reason for one to do what one does........

the reason a submissive must bare his EMOTIONS has as much to do with giving information for his Dominant to process and act accordingly as it is an obligation of his to be an open book for Her because She expects and deserves it.........

a submissive should receive emotion from his Dominant ONLY insofar as it makes it clear to him how to act in the future, but NOT because the Dominant is obligated to him to show it for his benefit

i am not sure She should be holding back in order to arise fears and uncertainties in him, tho.......but their existence should not necessarily be a reason for Her to feel She has to coddle him...

as far as TRUST is concerned, since it is the Dominants accepted responsibility to care for the well-being of Her charge, it behooves Her to look beyond what the submissive openly expresses so that She can anticipate his future words and actions and direct him at a higher level........

getting inside his head is very important and not all submissives express their feelings as well and as readily as they should.....fears and insecurities are often at the forefront of their reasons, and only with the passage of time and building of trust on the part of the submissive will they reduce to a satisfactory level......

so.....my answer to Your question is 1) NO quid pro quo EMOTION..... and 2) NO blind TRUST

respectfully submitted,

I also applaud your response. This is a topic that my subs and I spend a great deal of time on in the beginning. It pays off inthe long run because I find that it helps me to gauge when I get into certain "sensitive areas" that need indepth inspection.

Eb

 

[WillowPuss]

Ohh wow!
How did I miss this turn in the conversation?

Methinks it is time to go back and re-read.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

I also applaud your response. This is a topic that my subs and I spend a great deal of time on in the beginning. It pays off inthe long run because I find that it helps me to gauge when I get into certain "sensitive areas" that need indepth inspection.

Eb

Thank You, Ms Ebony, Ma'am

It is the sign of a good Dominant when a strong foundation is laid at the beginning of a relationship, replete with groundrules, expectations, do's and don'ts etc.

Of course i have heard of SOME Dominants who oftentimes actually set their new submissives up to fail in order to make them learn from their mistakes (only PARTIALLY because They enjoy it so much to have a training whip in each hand and a cowering submissive at Their feet!)

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

Thank You, Ms Ebony, Ma'am

It is the sign of a good Dominant when a strong foundation is laid at the beginning of a relationship, replete with groundrules, expectations, do's and don'ts etc.

Of course i have heard of SOME Dominants who oftentimes actually set their new submissives up to fail in order to make them learn from their mistakes (only PARTIALLY because They enjoy it so much to have a training whip in each hand and a cowering submissive at Their feet!)

I try positive, it is just my nature. I do nt want negativity around me. Too much bad energy.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

I try positive, it is just my nature. I do nt want negativity around me. Too much bad energy.

Eb

Did I fail to say that I positively have a flogger in my hand?

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

Did I fail to say that I positively have a flogger in my hand?

hhmm....errrrr....well......i didn't q-u-i-t-e see it noted there in the previous post, Ms Ebony, butt i have no doubt that it was implied in Your words, uummmm, s-s-s-s-s-o-m-w-h-e-r-e!!

hhmmm.........speaking of whips/floggers "in/at hand", Ms Ebony, after You return home from Your future trip to Sweden, i can venture to predict that Customs officials will ask You why You have so many extra holster looking loops in Your belt.........

Do You think they will REALLY believe You when You tell them that You needed it for Your "whip duel" with Mistress Shadowsdream???

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust and Honesty...opinions please

hhmm....errrrr....well......i didn't q-u-i-t-e see it noted there in the previous post, Ms Ebony, butt i have no doubt that it was implied in Your words, uummmm, s-s-s-s-s-o-m-w-h-e-r-e!!

hhmmm.........speaking of whips/floggers "in/at hand", Ms Ebony, after You return home from Your future trip to Sweden, i can venture to predict that Customs officials will ask You why You have so many extra holster looking loops in Your belt.........

Do You think they will REALLY believe You when You tell them that You needed it for Your "whip duel" with Mistress Shadowsdream???

They might. If not perhaps they will want a sample?

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

Luvsub brought up something that can be elaborated on:

He wrote:

getting inside his head is very important and not all submissives express their feelings as well and as readily as they should......

Many dominants require their subs to write down their thoughts in a submissive's diary for this very reason. How many submissives find it easier to express the their feelings in writing rather than in verbally?

How many dominants provide this outlet for their subs to express their feelings freely?

I do not require a sub's diary for my part-time boys. When I have a 24/7, I will consider it more closely if my sub has a hard time verbalizing his thoughts.


Ebony

 

[Ebonyfire]

Originally posted by Ebonyfire
Luvsub brought up something that I feel can be elaborated on:

He wrote:

"getting inside his head is very important and not all submissives express their feelings as well and as readily as they should.....fears and insecurities are often at the forefront of their reasons, and only with the passage of time and building of trust on the part of the submissive will they reduce to a satisfactory level...... "



Many dominants require their subs to write down their thoughts in a submissive's diary for this very reason. How many submissives find it easier to express the their feelings in writing rather than in verbally?

How many dominants provide this outlet for their subs to express their feelings freely?

I do not require a sub's diary for my part-time boys. When I have a 24/7, I will consider it more closely if my sub has a hard time verbalizing his thoughts.


Ebony [/QUOTE]

 

[morninggirl5]

Luvsub brought up something that can be elaborated on:

He wrote:



Many dominants require their subs to write down their thoughts in a submissive's diary for this very reason. How many submissives find it easier to express the their feelings in writing rather than in verbally?

How many dominants provide this outlet for their subs to express their feelings freely?

I do not require a sub's diary for my part-time boys. When I have a 24/7, I will consider it more closely if my sub has a hard time verbalizing his thoughts.


Ebony

I find it much easier to bring up a topic by writing. If there's something i really need to say, to ask, to bring up for conversation, i will do so in an e-mail. Then, after he reads it, there's always a conversation about it. I'm completely comfortable discussing it then after i've written it all down.

 

[WillowPuss]

How many submissives find it easier to express the their feelings in writing rather than in verbally?

How many dominants provide this outlet for their subs to express their feelings freely?

Ebony

I keep a diary/journal. I am supposed to write it up each evening at bedtime ... and *blush* have a couple of days to catch up on.

I find it much, much easier to write about my feelings than I do to speak about them. I find with a pen in my hand, words will just flow out of me, often without much concious effort.


Robuck reads the journal each evening and will discus anything he finds of note. (I hate it when I have made a large entry ... he will make comments like 'You do, do you?' and then I have to search my memory as to what it was I had written.)

He also encourages me to give feedback this way if we have been playing. We dod often discuss play immediately afterwards during cuddle time - but often I am less than coherent then.



Ohhhh - sorry Eb - I got a little carried away with my answer.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I keep a diary/journal. I am supposed to write it up each evening at bedtime ... and *blush* have a couple of days to catch up on.

I find it much, much easier to write about my feelings than I do to speak about them. I find with a pen in my hand, words will just flow out of me, often without much concious effort.


Robuck reads the journal each evening and will discus anything he finds of note. (I hate it when I have made a large entry ... he will make comments like 'You do, do you?' and then I have to search my memory as to what it was I had written.)

He also encourages me to give feedback this way if we have been playing. We dod often discuss play immediately afterwards during cuddle time - but often I am less than coherent then.



Ohhhh - sorry Eb - I got a little carried away with my answer.

why apologize for an excellent post?

Thanks.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

I find it much easier to bring up a topic by writing. If there's something i really need to say, to ask, to bring up for conversation, i will do so in an e-mail. Then, after he reads it, there's always a conversation about it. I'm completely comfortable discussing it then after i've written it all down.

Thanks mg5
Eb

 

[Shadowsdream]

Luvsub brought up something that can be elaborated on:

He wrote:



Many dominants require their subs to write down their thoughts in a submissive's diary for this very reason. How many submissives find it easier to express the their feelings in writing rather than in verbally?

How many dominants provide this outlet for their subs to express their feelings freely?

I do not require a sub's diary for my part-time boys. When I have a 24/7, I will consider it more closely if my sub has a hard time verbalizing his thoughts.

I expect a journal to be kept when I am training a submissive. So that he or she can view their journey and grow in pride. I know that it brings comfort to them to be able to discuss the daily entries with Me as well..as a learning tool and validation.

I also suggest to the Dominants that I train that they keep journal entries for all of the same reasons. A journal is the script of the present and the past...

I do not require it of My 24/7 toy as his journal is verbal now that W/we share the same home...BUT I did require it when W/we were separated by 2 Continents


Ebony