U.S. politics isolation tank

[intothewoods]

You have to give Rahm credit for having successfully herded the cats in 2006. I know a lot has been written about how the Repubs are so much better at party discipline and why it's inherently less likely that Democrats will ever attain that same level of discipline - or even desire it - but it bears repeating. One reason why we win national elections about as often as the Chicago Cubs get to the World Series has to do with the fundamental Democratic identify: we like the fact that we represent a range of constituencies with differing objectives. But this also means that we won't be the NY Yankees any time soon, either.

I like Rahm and am weirdly obsessed with all of the Emmanuel brothers. I think he got shit done but maybe he wasn't so good on that whole pulse of the American people thing. You know, that would sort of go with the impression of the Obama campaign I got from reading Game Change -- they were super smart and organized but they did catch quite a few lucky breaks and make some good bets. Leading is different and I think they were mostly green in a really unique environment because of the economy.

I hate to sound like pollyanna liberal sunshine hippie, but as CA so often the rest of the country.

It's just interesting to me that they practically dug up a political corpse of an OLD SCHOOL progressive-ish dem Governor and still the media narrative is about the champion of the outsider and the rejection of government in all its current forms

and here's the perfect corporatist outsider - Ebay our way to solvency! And people were all um no.

What - what successful politicians ever came out of California? Ba dum dum.

Dude, he really was like a has been not that long ago. Nuts. But Jerry Brown can bring it and he is savvy. Meg Whitman is really dull -- I mean I find Carly Fiorina much more compelling. And Californians actually like moderate types. Meg had positioned herself too far right I think. And did I mention boring? I think Jerry Brown came off much better in the debates.

 

[midwestyankee]

I like Rahm and am weirdly obsessed with all of the Emmanuel brothers. I think he got shit done but maybe he wasn't so good on that whole pulse of the American people thing. You know, that would sort of go with the impression of the Obama campaign I got from reading Game Change -- they were super smart and organized but they did catch quite a few lucky breaks and make some good bets. Leading is different and I think they were mostly green in a really unique environment because of the economy.



What - what successful politicians ever came out of California? Ba dum dum.

Dude, he really was like a has been not that long ago. Nuts. But Jerry Brown can bring it and he is savvy. Meg Whitman is really dull -- I mean I find Carly Fiorina much more compelling. And Californians actually like moderate types. Meg had positioned herself too far right I think. And did I mention boring? I think Jerry Brown came off much better in the debates.

Just saw that Meg Whitman spent $47 per vote in her failed bid to win the governorship of California. In contrast, Jerry Brown spent $6 per vote for more votes.

 

[WriterDom]

Winning the governorship of California is about like winning a free ride on the Titanic. Only way it goes red in the presidential election is if Dukakis runs against Obama in the primary and beats him. Meg is no better than the asshole who bought New Jersey's Governor job a few years ago. I was glad she lost.

I would have liked to have seen Boxer go, but, it's California. Excuse me, Senator BITCH Boxer.

 

[Netzach]

Winning the governorship of California is about like winning a free ride on the Titanic. Only way it goes red in the presidential election is if Dukakis runs against Obama in the primary and beats him. Meg is no better than the asshole who bought New Jersey's Governor job a few years ago. I was glad she lost.

I would have liked to have seen Boxer go, but, it's California. Excuse me, Senator BITCH Boxer.

Oh, no doubt. Jerry Brown has the worst job in the US at this moment.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Talk about 9 political lives. I think Californians felt like they gave the political outsider a go once already and things were still crappy. Plus Meg Whitman didn't run a very good campaign.

I agree. They tried the ultimate outsider, and no magic solutions. Plus, I feel like the West coast (and I mean the urban coast, and still painting with a broad brush) doesn't have the psychic ties to the country's origins that the rest of the country does. They've always had a certain proud indifference to tradition or history.

It's odd. There's a strong libertarian group, and a strong liberal group, but my experience is the average person doesn't have the government-is-inherently-evil gene.

One thing I will say for Jerry Brown. He doesn't apologize for his views.

I know, they're like the borg. They assimilated what they wanted from Rahm Emmanuel's tactics and got stronger.

This made my night.

Oh, no doubt. Jerry Brown has the worst job in the US at this moment.

Not quite yet. They're overdue for a huge fucking earthquake.

 

[WriterDom]

I think that's fair. Keep the tax cuts forever and let the ones on the rich expire in three years. Or until the unemployment rate hits 6%. Whichever comes first.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think that's fair. Keep the tax cuts forever and let the ones on the rich expire in three years. Or until the unemployment rate hits 6%. Whichever comes first.

Frankly, I think we should let all the cuts expire this year as planned. Keeping the ones for folks making less than 250K will still cost something like 1.3 trillion and I don't care where you shop, that's a fuckton of money. If we're in this thing together, then dammit we ought to be all in it together.

I'd have the mortgage interest deduction on the chopping block, too, if I had any say in the matter. And then there's another fuckton of money going out the window in thousands of tax incentives for businesses. Sure, some of them may be useful but the majority are just payback to one interest group or another for funding a political campaign.

Seriously, if we just made a few changes like these we might even be able to strengthen Social Security and Medicare instead of worrying about how to cut out the subsidies for walkers and bladder bags for gramps.

 

[WriterDom]

Frankly, I think we should let all the cuts expire this year as planned. Keeping the ones for folks making less than 250K will still cost something like 1.3 trillion and I don't care where you shop, that's a fuckton of money. If we're in this thing together, then dammit we ought to be all in it together.

I'd have the mortgage interest deduction on the chopping block, too, if I had any say in the matter. And then there's another fuckton of money going out the window in thousands of tax incentives for businesses. Sure, some of them may be useful but the majority are just payback to one interest group or another for funding a political campaign.

Seriously, if we just made a few changes like these we might even be able to strengthen Social Security and Medicare instead of worrying about how to cut out the subsidies for walkers and bladder bags for gramps.

1.3 trillion over how long. A day? A year? 10 years? 100 years?

 

[midwestyankee]

1.3 trillion over how long. A day? A year? 10 years? 100 years?

I believe that number covers the normal budgetary projection window of 10 years.

 

[WriterDom]

I believe that number covers the normal budgetary projection window of 10 years.

100 billion or so a year? I thought the 840 billion failed stimulus was too small to work. Now you want to rob the paychecks of the shrinking workforce? And call it a cost? It's not the governments money to begin with.

 

[midwestyankee]

100 billion or so a year? I thought the 840 billion failed stimulus was too small to work. Now you want to rob the paychecks of the shrinking workforce? And call it a cost? It's not the governments money to begin with.

It's the government's money if it's a part of tax revenue. Yes, extending the Bush tax cuts would be a cost because at the moment the revenue from the tax code as it currently exists for 2011 and following is included in budget projections. If you want to extend those tax cuts then you either find another 2 trillion over the next decade via spending cuts or tax increases or you add that 2 trill to the deficit.

Your team has been crying all election season about how important it is to cut the deficit. So how about if your team puts its money where its mouth is and show us how they're going to cut the deficit?

I know the answer: we can't do meaningful cuts until we win the White House in 2012. So in other words, we want to continue to spend like drunken sailors for two years and then we're gonna get the deficit-cutting religion.

Not fucking likely from the bunch that gave us a couple trillion in off-budget expenses in the sands of the middle east.

 

[WriterDom]

You lost. We get to drive the bus now.

 

[JMohegan]

You lost. We get to drive the bus now.

Not exactly. The blue team still controls the brakes.

 

[Netzach]

Basically the republican party platform could be "we are going to eat every person's firstborn alive" and they will still garner the backing of corporate donors now to the tune of zero limits.

Because they're not going to tax businesses. I guess retail has no reason to get religion about selling goods when they can post losses and write them off?

So, until people figure out which way to point the damn guns, enjoy your 200 buck refund check when it's all you'll have to spend all year.

How many different ways does the same message need to be delivered? We can GIVE money to business to the tune of billions of dollars without generating one american job. Why is it going to be different this time?

WD, you sure can drive that bus. Except the public transportation budget doesn't allow for drivers, better luck later. Like roads? Me either, what a pork barrel.

Either the people elected are lying liars or their budgets don't cover them any longer. Or VA hospitals. Or anything.

 

[WriterDom]

I'm just jerking your chain. The bus has been heading downhill on its own for quite a while.

So Afghanistan is getting "bags of cash" from Iraq and JerkoffAhmadinejad is racking up frequent flyer miles back and forth from Kabul. Karzai is also kissing up to the Taliban as fast as he can before we leave next year.

My source, you ask? Karzai's schizophrenic bipolar mouth.

We need to go ahead and get the fuck out of there. Like tonight.

 

[Netzach]

I'm just jerking your chain. The bus has been heading downhill on its own for quite a while.

So Afghanistan is getting "bags of cash" from Iraq and JerkoffAhmadinejad is racking up frequent flyer miles back and forth from Kabul. Karzai is also kissing up to the Taliban as fast as he can before we leave next year.

My source, you ask? Karzai's schizophrenic bipolar mouth.

We need to go ahead and get the fuck out of there. Like tonight.

Agreed.

Of course if we had done a proper aggressive clean up of the RIGHT fucking country, but water under the bridge, alas. I've never understood why we're not doing unmanned drones, beefed up intel, and threats we're willing to carry out.

 

[WriterDom]

Agreed.

Of course if we had done a proper aggressive clean up of the RIGHT fucking country, but water under the bridge, alas. I've never understood why we're not doing unmanned drones, beefed up intel, and threats we're willing to carry out.

I'm not so sure that it could ever be cleaned up. Unless by cleaned up you mean stay there fucking forever.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not so sure that it could ever be cleaned up. Unless by cleaned up you mean stay there fucking forever.

I mean make things go very horrific boom in a very non warm fuzzy liberal sense when we had the moral high ground rather than go deep into the pres's five year old psyche.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

On the deficit, the GOP is marching to fight fire with firewood.

So say those wild-eyed crazies, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, and the former Chair of W's Council of Economic Advisors.

 

[midwestyankee]

Via Andrew Sullivan:

"...try this thought experiment:

If a black Republican president had come in, helped turn around the banking and auto industries (at a small profit!), insured millions through the private sector while cutting Medicare, overseen a sharp decline in illegal immigration, ramped up the war in Afghanistan, reinstituted pay-as-you go in the Congress, set up a debt commission to offer hard choices for future debt reduction, and seen private sector job growth outstrip the public sector's in a slow but dogged recovery, somehow I don't think that Republican would be regarded as a socialist."

Discuss.

Source

 

[WriterDom]

Via Andrew Sullivan:

"...try this thought experiment:

If a black Republican president had come in, helped turn around the banking and auto industries (at a small profit!), insured millions through the private sector while cutting Medicare, overseen a sharp decline in illegal immigration, ramped up the war in Afghanistan, reinstituted pay-as-you go in the Congress, set up a debt commission to offer hard choices for future debt reduction, and seen private sector job growth outstrip the public sector's in a slow but dogged recovery, somehow I don't think that Republican would be regarded as a socialist."

Discuss.

Source

What does skin color have to do with anything? Had the republicans been in charge of the house, senate, and the white house they would have probably received the worst asskicking in over 70 years as well.

He is right about one thing though. The Mexicans are swimming south in this economy.

 

[midwestyankee]

What does skin color have to do with anything? Had the republicans been in charge of the house, senate, and the white house they would have probably received the worst asskicking in over 70 years as well.

He is right about one thing though. The Mexicans are swimming south in this economy.

I wondered about the inclusion of skin color but I think it's there to make the thought experiment complete.

The question was not whether Republicans would have been drubbed under similar economic conditions, though. It had to do with how the Republicans would have reacted to the President who accomplished the same things. Anyone who thinks that the Repubs would have responded the same way to the same legislative actions from their own side is an idiot.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I wondered about the inclusion of skin color but I think it's there to make the thought experiment complete.

The question was not whether Republicans would have been drubbed under similar economic conditions, though. It had to do with how the Republicans would have reacted to the President who accomplished the same things. Anyone who thinks that the Repubs would have responded the same way to the same legislative actions from their own side is an idiot.

Good article in todays TNR about the Romney camp's antics as they try to distance themselves from ACA.

The "black" thing is for ceteris paribus purposes.

 

[midwestyankee]

Good article in todays TNR about the Romney camp's antics as they try to distance themselves from ACA.

The "black" thing is for ceteris paribus purposes.

I'm guessing that his whole team could all qualify for the national gymnastics squad by the time this is all over.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm guessing that his whole team could all qualify for the national gymnastics squad by the time this is all over.

....