U.S. politics isolation tank

[rosco rathbone]

i wonder if ol' Writer Dom has fled to Costa Rica yet.

 

[midwestyankee]

i wonder if ol' Writer Dom has fled to Costa Rica yet.

I would expect him to be one of those moving to Australia so they could be led by a Christian male president in a country that's a perfect eden of capitalism.

Of course, the fact that Australia's Prime Minister is a woman and an atheist and that they have universal health care might come as a bit of a surprise.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Wow! Talk about the Republicans locking themselves in a box. In Utah, Mia Love, the great brown hope of the Republican Party looses to OWM [Old White Man]--- a Democrat!!!

I guess they do pick their skin color first.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/mia-love-election-results_n_2086422.html

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/is-the-gop-still-a-national-party/

Because conservatives over-identify with the GOP, and the GOP’s identity is determined by factional and regional ideologies, the result is that conservatives take their definition of conservatism from the party and that definition is more regional- and interest-based than philosophical. This accounts for the spectacle of the GOP periodically getting worked up about “big government” while in fact expanding government — welfare state, warfare state, banning internet gambling, you name it — whenever it’s in power. The blue state/red state psychological divide is more fundamental to the party’s understanding of the world than is any consistent view of the proper extent and uses of government.

This is also why One Nation conservatism or even genuinely Reaganite conservatism, with its appeal to independents and Democrats as well as the base, is impossible today. The ideology of suburbia (“porky populism,” with its hatred of organic food and fetishistic attachment to SUVs and Wal-Mart) and the most intense expressions of heartland Protestantism, together with certain Southern good ol’ boy attitudes (less overt racism than a scratch-my-back-I’ll-scratch-yours ethos), are the matrix of GOP and “conservative” identity. The financial and neoconservative elites have designed ideologies of their own to integrate with this matrix: neocons spin their foreign policy as an expression of values (God and America are practically the same thing, aren’t they?), as a token of Protestant-Jewish solidarity (support for Israel), and as necessary for national honor and the Southern economy (wars and bases). Wall Street relies on Mitt’s 47 percent myth: the people who aren’t part of the GOP coalition are lazy and lack self-responsibility; i.e., they are sinful and un-Protestant, while the Gospel makes you rich and happy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/is-the-gop-still-a-national-party/

What did he say?

Man I hate those run-on sentences.

 

[Stella_Omega]

One more thing-- that Project Orca thing? Eavesdropping as voters check in, and reporting their names back to headquarters?

Doesn't that seem illegal? Like, invasion of privacy kind of?

And what the hell where they thinking they could do with that info? Suddenly win the election after they'd shot themselves in every foot they possess?

 

[Netzach]

I liked this chunk:

If the case were otherwise, you’d see the anti-dependency case made against the Pentagon, defense contractors, churches taking government money, and red-state recipients of all kinds of largesse. I don’t see Republicans talking about that, with a handful of exceptions whose last name is usually “Paul.”

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/is-the-gop-still-a-national-party/

Interesting. This whole process to me seems like the GOP providing safe harbor for the people most freaked out by the tectonic demographic shifts of the past quarter century. Republicans are now chiefly older rural and exurban white protestants. These are the people who can see the massive changes from afar - in the country's ethnic makeup, in the diversification of religious (or non-religious) practices, of the acceptance of sexual orientation as a Real Thing, of sexual mores, of the growth in numbers of single people, of the resurgence of cities, and on and on.

They can see these things, but don't have to engage too closely with them if they can barricade themselves inside a fortress of like-thinking people who agree that these things must be reversed.

Even the economic message gets reduced to "go back before the government and unions and environmental and labor regulations crippled business." (Like we have a powerful labor movement that needs eviscerating anymore .) There's this longing for some kind of mythical past, and it's very tempting when you feel the ground shifting every few minutes.

But it's impossible to build a winning national coalition of people freaked out by the majority.

I liked this chunk:

If the case were otherwise, you’d see the anti-dependency case made against the Pentagon, defense contractors, churches taking government money, and red-state recipients of all kinds of largesse. I don’t see Republicans talking about that, with a handful of exceptions whose last name is usually “Paul.”

Yes. Or corporate welfare at every level.

One more thing-- that Project Orca thing? Eavesdropping as voters check in, and reporting their names back to headquarters?

Doesn't that seem illegal? Like, invasion of privacy kind of?

And what the hell where they thinking they could do with that info? Suddenly win the election after they'd shot themselves in every foot they possess?

I really had no idea that this was preceded routinely by the same sort of thing, but with pencil and paper. It does seem like a violation to me. I suppose if you are deemed an official "poll watcher" then the case can be made that you are representing your party on either side to make sure the election officials aren't committing violations of some kind.

This is an insider's breakdown that shows how FUBAR it was. I'm sure, however, that this is coming next time on both sides, and it will eventually work. Hell, it will probably use satellites to monitor when you leave your house to go to the polls. I do like the writer's final point about the irony of a supposedly small-government candidate choosing to centralize his resources in Boston.

And speaking of irony, who doesn't like a party that has become hostile-on-principle to environmental concerns naming its superduper technology after whales?

Maybe it was the revenge of Willy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

An unexpected convo elsewhere on the internet; a woman I talk to mentioned that the family dinner on thursday "was subdued, thank god."

Her parents and their guests had just seen several million dollars in political donations go to naught.

I asked if they were angry at the way the Romney campaign had assured them that all was going well and she said yes-- and that they were already angry that the government wasn't giving them what they wanted.

I asked if she could subtly encourage her parents toward lawsuit, (I've heard that some groups are talking that way, so much for Republican charity) and she said;

Oh, that would be lovely. I know he's not getting invited to any of the good parties at least for the next year and being sued for, what, false advertising? would be the icing on top of the cake.

Not invited to the parties. Of course not! Did any of us even think about that, huh? Poor Mittens and Anne, relegated to the B list lest the miasma of *failure* that now surrounds them rub off on anyone.

My friend was a politics/law/economics major until some illness I don't remember right now resulted in catastrophic organ failure and she's been disabled ever since, having to give up work/school/life. She was a lesbian before; after, she became liberal, and her parents and their friends don't like her much. But she says-- her billionaire mom unexpectedly helped her out with some grocery money. She could buy eggs and toilet paper at the same time.

And that's Republican charity right there. Eggs and toilet paper on a whim.

 

[Netzach]

An unexpected convo elsewhere on the internet; a woman I talk to mentioned that the family dinner on thursday "was subdued, thank god."

Her parents and their guests had just seen several million dollars in political donations go to naught.

I asked if they were angry at the way the Romney campaign had assured them that all was going well and she said yes-- and that they were already angry that the government wasn't giving them what they wanted.

I asked if she could subtly encourage her parents toward lawsuit, (I've heard that some groups are talking that way, so much for Republican charity) and she said;


Not invited to the parties. Of course not! Did any of us even think about that, huh? Poor Mittens and Anne, relegated to the B list lest the miasma of *failure* that now surrounds them rub off on anyone.

My friend was a politics/law/economics major until some illness I don't remember right now resulted in catastrophic organ failure and she's been disabled ever since, having to give up work/school/life. She was a lesbian before; after, she became liberal, and her parents and their friends don't like her much. But she says-- her billionaire mom unexpectedly helped her out with some grocery money. She could buy eggs and toilet paper at the same time.

And that's Republican charity right there. Eggs and toilet paper on a whim.

In context though, the parties are important. A lot of the gridlock during the Clinton era would have been softened if they were more fluidly able to handle "the parties" and the social steps of being in power, a ritualized kind of bullshit. At first I though this was just Gergen being Gergen in his book, but it's pretty well echoed by every person around them that they were willfully opposed to this kind of thing to their own detriment.

It sounds frivolous as fuck, but this really means it's the end of Romney as a public figure. Period.

I know, I can't fully land my brain on this planet either.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In context though, the parties are important. A lot of the gridlock during the Clinton era would have been softened if they were more fluidly able to handle "the parties" and the social steps of being in power, a ritualized kind of bullshit. At first I though this was just Gergen being Gergen in his book, but it's pretty well echoed by every person around them that they were willfully opposed to this kind of thing to their own detriment.

It sounds frivolous as fuck, but this really means it's the end of Romney as a public figure. Period.

I know, I can't fully land my brain on this planet either.

yes, absolutely the parties are important. And mittens has failed.

 

[Netzach]

Interesting. This whole process to me seems like the GOP providing safe harbor for the people most freaked out by the tectonic demographic shifts of the past quarter century. Republicans are now chiefly older rural and exurban white protestants. These are the people who can see the massive changes from afar - in the country's ethnic makeup, in the diversification of religious (or non-religious) practices, of the acceptance of sexual orientation as a Real Thing, of sexual mores, of the growth in numbers of single people, of the resurgence of cities, and on and on.

They can see these things, but don't have to engage too closely with them if they can barricade themselves inside a fortress of like-thinking people who agree that these things must be reversed.

Even the economic message gets reduced to "go back before the government and unions and environmental and labor regulations crippled business." (Like we have a powerful labor movement that needs eviscerating anymore .) There's this longing for some kind of mythical past, and it's very tempting when you feel the ground shifting every few minutes.

But it's impossible to build a winning national coalition of people freaked out by the majority.

I saw this in micro in my own state. The defeat of the initiatives was basically an illustration of the urbanization of the population. (and thank you Blue Earth county, and 2 others you weirdos) - as I read somewhere "if you're going to be a regional party, it helps if the region is where people actually live".

The initiatives died because the cities, large and small...came out and killed them. And they also died because the GOP has forgotten that a lot of conservatives are not "neo"

If you want to regain traction in the Midwest, you will have to return to conservative principles and shrink the government in ALL regards, not just the ones God tells you not to control.

Ron Paul carried Iowa and MN primaries. That is the message the upper Midwest is sending, and HAS been sending since Ventura won. Pawlenty was our experiment with neocon politics, it put I-35 under water, stalled the state budget, and guaranteed that Mark Dayton will remain a very popular governor.

 

[midwestyankee]

Here is a fascinating personal account of how the Obama presidency and ground game led to one more vote in Ohio:

Watching Romney's communications person's hubris regarding what turned out to be the disastrous ORCA was something that had to be seen to be believed. The myth of Romney as business genius surely must be put to rest if every aspect of his campaign is studied. Surely he mastered the art of pillaging honest businesses to make money for himself and his investors, but running a business? Not so much. He would have failed as a CEO of an actual company that made or sold anything.

I live in Ohio. I am a married woman in her forties who resides in Ohio. I'm a mother. I voted for George W. Bush twice. I was impressed and swayed by the Obama message and campaign in 2008 and voted for him them, much to the dismay of my husband. I can't say I was overwhelmed by Obama's accomplishments as POTUS the last four years, but given the amount thrown at him from a resistant Congress and the crazies who make up the birthers, conspiracy theorists and Donald Trump, I gave him a bit of a pass. I'd rather someone is on office I believe at least will give due consideration and thought to his decisions whom I disagree with, than someone who will decide for the most politically advantageous decision. I went into this election pretty much undecided. It didn't take long to see Mitt Romney's craven desire to win won over his faith or belief in humanity and the country.

I had very little to do with the Obama For America website this election, however, in an attempt to escape the onslaught of harassing television and radio ads, direct mail pieces and a phone that rang so may times a day I ended up unplugging it, I voted early. Low and behold, a few days after I voted I received an email from OFA thanking me for voting. It had an invitation to a get out the vote event at a neighbor's home a few blocks from my home. When I clicked the response box that I could not attend a window popped up giving me several alternatives to helping the campaign such as making phone calls. Get out the vote opportunities continued to pop up in my email the remaining weeks of the campaign.

On election day, I got several text messages from OFA asking me to make a few calls. Can you make 5 calls? No. Can you make 3 calls? No. Can you make 1 call? Yes. That's a ground game.​

 

[Stella_Omega]

"isn't it time to stop hating?"

Not until the middle class returns, and my business base. Not until most of us are no longer one step away from living out of our cars.

"Anne Romney needs rest and a stress free life. She has MS, you know."

Maybe she can go live in a Swiss Bank account.

 

[intothewoods]

ok, the small stuff --

in DC the ballot measures were all basically some variation of - if you're a felon, you can't be mayor or on the council. Also, if you've committed misconduct, blah blah.

So, fuck you Marion Barry, for starters, and then maybe the current mayor too.

I felt a little guilty for voting for it. In principal I think we should leave it to democracy. But in practice? This city is just too fucked. I figure if some amazing reformed felon runs, we can always overturn it.

 

[Netzach]

ok, the small stuff --

in DC the ballot measures were all basically some variation of - if you're a felon, you can't be mayor or on the council. Also, if you've committed misconduct, blah blah.

So, fuck you Marion Barry, for starters, and then maybe the current mayor too.

I felt a little guilty for voting for it. In principal I think we should leave it to democracy. But in practice? This city is just too fucked. I figure if some amazing reformed felon runs, we can always overturn it.

Don't feel too guilty. However, DC is fucked because it's a federally funded frankenstein entity isn't it?

 

[midwestyankee]

Don't feel too guilty. However, DC is fucked because it's a federally funded frankenstein entity isn't it?

A good one from my twitter feed the other day (paraphrased) "If DC housed at least as many right-wingers as Democrats, it would already have its two Senators and two Representatives."

This cycle I added numerous journalists to my feed, mostly for amusement. The last ten days have been just wild.

 

[JMohegan]

One more thing-- that Project Orca thing? Eavesdropping as voters check in, and reporting their names back to headquarters?

Doesn't that seem illegal? Like, invasion of privacy kind of?

And what the hell where they thinking they could do with that info? Suddenly win the election after they'd shot themselves in every foot they possess?

No, it's not illegal, and god help us if it ever becomes so.

Poll watchers from each party are allowed to find out who has voted (though not how they voted), in real time, on election day. The presence of these folks is critical to preventing voter intimidation, voter fraud, and vote rigging by partisan officials on election day.

As for what campaigns do with the info (aside from preventing intimidation, etc.) - they use the info to direct GOTV activities on election day. This is actually a small part of the election day ground game; if you're curious about more details or the bigger picture just ask. If you're not in a swing state and have never traveled to one for campaign work, you might be surprised at the level of effort involved.

I really had no idea that this was preceded routinely by the same sort of thing, but with pencil and paper. It does seem like a violation to me. I suppose if you are deemed an official "poll watcher" then the case can be made that you are representing your party on either side to make sure the election officials aren't committing violations of some kind.

This is an insider's breakdown that shows how FUBAR it was. I'm sure, however, that this is coming next time on both sides, and it will eventually work. Hell, it will probably use satellites to monitor when you leave your house to go to the polls. I do like the writer's final point about the irony of a supposedly small-government candidate choosing to centralize his resources in Boston.

And speaking of irony, who doesn't like a party that has become hostile-on-principle to environmental concerns naming its superduper technology after whales?

Maybe it was the revenge of Willy.

This is Narwhal. In real life, narwhals are by hunted humans, polar bears, and orcas.

Personally I consider Narwhal to be a much bigger invasion of privacy than folks knowing who showed up at the polls. But it worked, it really did.

 

[Stella_Omega]

yeah, after I asked that question, a quick check told me that pollwatchers are legal, necessary and need certificates. mostly, Orca was an attempt to make poll watching more efficient and less taxing, and it failed because it hadn't really been tested.

I agree with this;

Obama campaign staffers were exasperated at what seemed like a basic system failure: They had records on 170 million potential voters, 13 million online supporters, 3 million campaign donors and at least as many volunteers—but no way of knowing who among them were the same people.

By the middle of July, I was getting identical emails from about fifteen different grassroots orgs, until I started cutting my email subscriptions back. And I was part of three different on-the-ground volunteer groups. And many times, all three groups would be asking me to join the same action.

So, yeah, some way of knowing who is who would be handy...

 

[intothewoods]

Don't feel too guilty. However, DC is fucked because it's a federally funded frankenstein entity isn't it?

Oh yes. I mean, there's probably nothing to unfuck it. I don't even know. I still don't feel like I fully get this place. Lots of money to be thrown around these days, that's for sure.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Bulletin

I know that this is a shock. Just one week after the election more votes are being found in Florida. They found 995 missed votes in one precinct. What the heck, its only a week after the election. Its probably just a few thousands votes for Romney here and there that the governor hid away, just in case.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

There are petitions on "We The People" from all 50 states, requesting permission to peacefully secede from the Union.

There is a petition to deport everyone who signed a petition to secede.

Texas is the state most likely to actually be able to separate itself from the U.S., though not really through secession. According to an article from Slate, and my recall of Texas history (when I was a schoolchild there), Texas has the right to unilaterally divide itself into four additional states, which would automatically be entitled to join the Union, thus adding eight new senators to the U.S. Senate, and quite likely throwing the political situation into (at least near-) chaos. If the Texas Legislature were to vote to split into those five (total) states, it is quite possible that the remainder of Congress (House and Senate) would vote to *expel* Texas from the Union, in effect seceding from Texas, rather than the other way around.

Considering the political climate of Texas the last decade or so, I'm afraid I have to admit that I don't see much of a downside in that scenario...

 

[midwestyankee]

There are petitions on "We The People" from all 50 states, requesting permission to peacefully secede from the Union.

There is a petition to deport everyone who signed a petition to secede.

Texas is the state most likely to actually be able to separate itself from the U.S., though not really through secession. According to an article from Slate, and my recall of Texas history (when I was a schoolchild there), Texas has the right to unilaterally divide itself into four additional states, which would automatically be entitled to join the Union, thus adding eight new senators to the U.S. Senate, and quite likely throwing the political situation into (at least near-) chaos. If the Texas Legislature were to vote to split into those five (total) states, it is quite possible that the remainder of Congress (House and Senate) would vote to *expel* Texas from the Union, in effect seceding from Texas, rather than the other way around.

Considering the political climate of Texas the last decade or so, I'm afraid I have to admit that I don't see much of a downside in that scenario...

In a similar article at The New Republic, a cogent commenter pointed out that the so-called secession rights described above pre-date the Civil War. Since Texas already seceded once, it has vacated those rights. Its presence in the Union is now predicated on the articles that ended the Civil War so it's in the same position as every other Confederate state that re-joined the Union: an equal among equals.

 

[Stella_Omega]

http://www.politicususa.com/post-election-romney-bain-face-federal-corruption-perjury-hearing.html

Exactly ten days ago, this column reported on a Delaware bankruptcy court’s failure to enter an Emergency Motion into the public docket that included Bain Capital and Romney operative’s perjury and corruption in the eToys bankruptcy case.
....

Well now that he lost the election, it appears the allegation had merit because on November 7, the day after his crushing defeat, the Delaware bankruptcy court judge entered the motion into the public docket and scheduled a hearing for December 4, 2012; all on the same day...

...it leads one to believe that the “shell shock” Romney’s campaign reported him experiencing may have more to do with impending judicial due process than just losing the election.

And some people think I was exaggerating when I said that electing Mittens was a step towards corporate fascism.

 

[Netzach]

OK, a moment of self-criticism, because I feel like it...

Petraeus. Willy-based scandal awfully close to Benghazi inquiries. Discuss?