Using manners when giving commands

[Kajira Callista]

Oh yelling can be such fun!

Maybe it's my New York upbringing.

While working over a guy in an NYC dungeon, he was on the verge of tears and trying to hold them in. I kept on hitting him on one tit with a crop, just the one nipple, and I knew I needed somehow to push him over the crying brink, so I yelled - (my accent comes OUT when I yell)

"I don't fuckin' care if they hear you in BROOKLYN"

and he started yelling and wailing and crying, it was beautiful.

this is why i stalk her ya know!

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Re: Re: Using manners when giving commands

personally if your giving commands you shouldn't have to say please.. as if your asking their permission.. or treating them as if it was your mother...

i mean your giving them the power to approve of what it is your asking in a way.

but i don't see politeness being required unless the effect you want on the person to be.. well recieved or respected... do you want to be respected or feared? it all depends on the reaction you want to incite

I almost decided to just skip past this response, but ... no. I must say, I really don't understand your post. It almost appears as if you dropped in from another planet, looked at a couple of posts in the thread and drew conclusions from that extremely small sample - something like the four blind men touching the elephant.

"...if you{'}r{e} giving commands you shouldn't have to say please.. as if you{'}r{e} asking their permission.. or treating them as if it was your mother."

Huh? What??? I don't know how much more clearly I can say it than this - a direct quote from my initial post: "My commands are usually phrased as requests." Phrased as. That does not mean they are requests, merely that they are said in that manner.

"...you{'}r{e} giving them the power to approve of what it is you{'}r{e} asking in a way."

Since it's a command, and she is quite aware of that, I'm not asking anything, nor does she have the "power to approve of" it - other than the obvious power to withdraw her gift of submission and seek another Dominant/Master.

"but i don't see politeness being required unless the effect you want on the person to be.. well recieved or respected... do you want to be respected or feared? it all depends on the reaction you want to incite"

A pyl in a relationship with me respects me, because I could not/would not have a relationship with her without mutual respect. How could she involve herself with a Dominant or Master she doesn't respect??? And yes, I respect her, for her strength in surrender, for the beauty she brings into my life, and for the gift she gives me. Politeness has nothing to do with respect in the instance we are discussing in this thread, which is "Using manners when giving commands." It is a mode of behavior, familiar to almost everyone in civilized lands.

If this seems confrontational, it is. I'm bloody well tired of people who seem to think that our lifestyle is a refuge for uncouth abusers and losers, just because some of us beat others of us. That doesn't mean that there is no respect between beater and beatee. It doesn't mean that they don't respect one another. In many cases, it doesn't mean they don't love one another. What it means is that there are people who like to create certain sensations in the minds and bodies of others, and those others like to experience those sensations.

 

[A Desert Rose]

You go Fella! ^^^

 

[CutieMouse]

Re: Re: Re: Using manners when giving commands

I almost decided to just skip past this response, but ... no. I must say, I really don't understand your post. It almost appears as if you dropped in from another planet, looked at a couple of posts in the thread and drew conclusions from that extremely small sample - something like the four blind men touching the elephant.

"...if you{'}r{e} giving commands you shouldn't have to say please.. as if you{'}r{e} asking their permission.. or treating them as if it was your mother."

Huh? What??? I don't know how much more clearly I can say it than this - a direct quote from my initial post: "My commands are usually phrased as requests." Phrased as. That does not mean they are requests, merely that they are said in that manner.

"...you{'}r{e} giving them the power to approve of what it is you{'}r{e} asking in a way."

Since it's a command, and she is quite aware of that, I'm not asking anything, nor does she have the "power to approve of" it - other than the obvious power to withdraw her gift of submission and seek another Dominant/Master.

"but i don't see politeness being required unless the effect you want on the person to be.. well recieved or respected... do you want to be respected or feared? it all depends on the reaction you want to incite"

A pyl in a relationship with me respects me, because I could not/would not have a relationship with her without mutual respect. How could she involve herself with a Dominant or Master she doesn't respect??? And yes, I respect her, for her strength in surrender, for the beauty she brings into my life, and for the gift she gives me. Politeness has nothing to do with respect in the instance we are discussing in this thread, which is "Using manners when giving commands." It is a mode of behavior, familiar to almost everyone in civilized lands.

If this seems confrontational, it is. I'm bloody well tired of people who seem to think that our lifestyle is a refuge for uncouth abusers and losers, just because some of us beat others of us. That doesn't mean that there is no respect between beater and beatee. It doesn't mean that they don't respect one another. In many cases, it doesn't mean they don't love one another. What it means is that there are people who like to create certain sensations in the minds and bodies of others, and those others like to experience those sensations.

Well said Sir W.

 

[Marquis]

Oh yelling can be such fun!

Maybe it's my New York upbringing.

While working over a guy in an NYC dungeon, he was on the verge of tears and trying to hold them in. I kept on hitting him on one tit with a crop, just the one nipple, and I knew I needed somehow to push him over the crying brink, so I yelled - (my accent comes OUT when I yell)

"I don't fuckin' care if they hear you in BROOKLYN"

and he started yelling and wailing and crying, it was beautiful.

I always tell people I'm bilingual, I speak English and Profanity.

 

[graceanne]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Using manners when giving commands

Well said Sir W.

I second that. Just cause K says 'please' doesn't mean that I have any doubt I've been told, and that if I don't do what I was told that I'm seriously SOL.

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Re: Using manners when giving commands

personally if your giving commands you shouldn't have to say please.. as if your asking their permission.. or treating them as if it was your mother...

i mean your giving them the power to approve of what it is your asking in a way.

but i don't see politeness being required unless the effect you want on the person to be.. well recieved or respected... do you want to be respected or feared? it all depends on the reaction you want to incite

Maybe you perceive things much differently. When a dominant says "please" to me, I never think of it as anything other than a polite figure of speach. I know my place and I know what is expected.... obedience. I obey regardless of how the command was phrased. The use of please and thank you in no way asks for my approval. Respect is earned through many things and we wouldn't even be playing if mutual respect wasn't there. Most of the time, I personally respond with far more heat when treated politely than if I'm spoken to rudely. That's just me.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Something I don't normally do but for the sake of illustration, I will post a slice from one of my last experiences...

For me, it had been a pretty intense D/s experience... lots of submission and Domming and a very fair amount of bdsm. In short, there was nothing I'd call gentlemanly in his behavior during that experience, which by the way, is how I liked it. ;-D

After a long and intense episode of being bound, caned, fucked and bitten black and blue, we were both very hungry and decided to go out for dinner. He opened car doors and restaurant doors for me, helped me on and off with my coat, all of which I absolutely loved. He could not have been more of a gentleman.

When the waitress came and took our order, I placed mine for myself and He gently scolded me, in front of her, for not deferring to Him to order for me. Frankly, it never occured to me to have Him do so. (Lesson learned, if I ever go out with Him again.)

He never said "Please give me your wrists" when He bound me. But I would not have expected Him to do so, at that point in time. At that particular time, I was His slut. When we went out in public, He treated me like a lady.

He Dommed me at the right times and wooed me at others.

My point is, there is a time, place and definate mood for different behaviors.

 

[Marquis]

True enough.

I have been known to cook a magnificent meal, complete with appropriate wine and candles before devouring my partner for dessert.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Just a thought that I had when reading the early posts to this thread, and again later but didn't want to include in my little rant on the previous page...

"Please give me your wrist." (so I can tie it to the bedframe)
vs.
"Give me your wrist, please." (so I can tie it to the bedframe)

To me, there is a very different "flavor" between these, even if the tone is identical. However, the second - my standard mode of address - seems to make it clearer that it is not a request, and, depending on the tone of voice and delivery, can remove the doubt, if there were any.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Why, thank you kittycat.

Anytime

And you know better, as well as my stock answer ...

LOL, couldn't resist giving just a little hope to my fellow subbies....

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Something I don't normally do but for the sake of illustration, I will post a slice from one of my last experiences...

For me, it had been a pretty intense D/s experience... lots of submission and Domming and a very fair amount of bdsm. In short, there was nothing I'd call gentlemanly in his behavior during that experience, which by the way, is how I liked it. ;-D

After a long and intense episode of being bound, caned, fucked and bitten black and blue, we were both very hungry and decided to go out for dinner. He opened car doors and restaurant doors for me, helped me on and off with my coat, all of which I absolutely loved. He could not have been more of a gentleman.

When the waitress came and took our order, I placed mine for myself and He gently scolded me, in front of her, for not deferring to Him to order for me. Frankly, it never occured to me to have Him do so. (Lesson learned, if I ever go out with Him again.)

He never said "Please give me your wrists" when He bound me. But I would not have expected Him to do so, at that point in time. At that particular time, I was His slut. When we went out in public, He treated me like a lady.

He Dommed me at the right times and wooed me at others.

My point is, there is a time, place and definate mood for different behaviors.

Have to agree with you here ADR....sounds similar to our life here. Francisco can rival many a southern gentleman in daily life, and is not feigned or posed but cultural and who he is....but in scenes there is a difference and in that a clear defining of the dominance in that place in time. Actually if he does begin to use such words as 'please' in a scene, I tend to begin thinking about if I have done anything to displease which might bring out the sarcasm as I would see it.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Just a thought that I had when reading the early posts to this thread, and again later but didn't want to include in my little rant on the previous page...

"Please give me your wrist." (so I can tie it to the bedframe)
vs.
"Give me your wrist, please." (so I can tie it to the bedframe)

To me, there is a very different "flavor" between these, even if the tone is identical. However, the second - my standard mode of address - seems to make it clearer that it is not a request, and, depending on the tone of voice and delivery, can remove the doubt, if there were any.

It can be different, it can depend on tone, but what robynwildchild felt was just as relevant a response to the thought of it being included in a scene as to those who feel it is good to include. I had said similar to her in my own response pages back and still stand by it. Francisco is the ultimate gentleman, and we do have mutual respect and an overload of sensations, but when scening or dominating in an overt sense, the nicities of life are often not there, changed in manner of delivery or as originally expected in daily life, nor do I particularly want or expect them to be. It does not need to translate to the Dominant being thought to be an abuser, just a difference in style and context as ADR noted in her post about her experience.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Something I don't normally do but for the sake of illustration, I will post a slice from one of my last experiences...

For me, it had been a pretty intense D/s experience... lots of submission and Domming and a very fair amount of bdsm. In short, there was nothing I'd call gentlemanly in his behavior during that experience, which by the way, is how I liked it. ;-D

After a long and intense episode of being bound, caned, fucked and bitten black and blue, we were both very hungry and decided to go out for dinner. He opened car doors and restaurant doors for me, helped me on and off with my coat, all of which I absolutely loved. He could not have been more of a gentleman.

When the waitress came and took our order, I placed mine for myself and He gently scolded me, in front of her, for not deferring to Him to order for me. Frankly, it never occured to me to have Him do so. (Lesson learned, if I ever go out with Him again.)

He never said "Please give me your wrists" when He bound me. But I would not have expected Him to do so, at that point in time. At that particular time, I was His slut. When we went out in public, He treated me like a lady.

He Dommed me at the right times and wooed me at others.

My point is, there is a time, place and definate mood for different behaviors.

I totally get why this would be a turnon for some, nay MOST women. But I have to say, one of my early nascent submissive explorations was like this and it drove me absolutely fucking NUTS. To distraction.

I seriously think I began to bottom as a boi and a butch because that was the only way I had an ongoing service expectation outside of the bedroom, it was the only way I could open a door for my Daddy in public and come across as an aide or something rather than just strange.

Now, Daddy, being himself, is generally a cordial and polite person, whether on top, on bottom, or just out to lunch.

 

[Marquis]

Netzach with a Daddy.

Can you picture it?

 

[Netzach]

let's paint an odder picture, shall we? Brief hijackish thing, but it's about politeness, in an oblique way...

Netzach with hair closely cropped, little wire rimmed glasses, a ramrod up her ass posture, in khakis and a man's shirt in a pink windowpane plaid, tucked, belted, square toed shoes, much like yours in that pic of your favorite outfit, verra nice, if I do say so.

Two steps behind and to the right of a charming medical practitioner of scandinavian stock, barrel chested and healthy and possessing a quirky and encyclopedic intellect.

Pulling out chairs, lighting cigars. Getting spanked, stood in the corner and used for intermittant sexual relief, taught the codes and ways of gay pickups, straight pickups, tranny pickups.

Politeness, correct behavior, was anything but pussy, it garnered an amazing amount of respect in a very short time.

 

[Marquis]

I hereby promise that if I should ever choose to become a switch or even a sub, I will slice off a pinky Yakuza style and send it back in time to my current self as an apology.

I haven't gotten a pinky from the future yet, so I'm hoping I keep my shit together.

 

[Netzach]

*chuckle* well, it wasn't half bad, but it's so not my style anymore. I don't have that wide-eyed 20 year old skinny neophyte thing anymore and won't again, it would not be as much fun.

The charming Scandinavian is now one of my bitches. People do change, in our cases for the better.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Spew Alert for other future events

I haven't gotten a pinky from the future yet, so I'm hoping I keep my shit together.

PLEASE!

And Winston ... agreed. What some may have missed involves the lovely, sadistic, gut-wrenching "what wicked thing does he have on his mind now" expression on a pyl's face if s/he doesn't understand quietly couched words.

i have no problem with Netzi's method on occasion. Hell, as kittycat has said, it keeps things spiced. All that said, one can create a deadly ambush with carefully expressed words for sheer thrill effect on the part of both parties. Either crank up the volume, and yell for shock ...

Or, after all the polite expression, simply lay that fingertip upon her hairline.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Spew Alert for other future events

Or, after all the polite expression, simply lay that fingertip upon her hairline.

Is that like a sort of healing with the hands thing?

Sorry could not resist,

Francisco.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Wicked Grin

Is that like a sort of healing with the hands thing?

You of all people should know it's the exact opposite.

 

[CutieMouse]

Another nostalgic bump...

 

[midwestyankee]

I think that a well-placed "please" adds a layer of complex aroma onto a scene. After all, what's the real meaning of a politeness that isn't needed, isn't common, and isn't expected?

And "thank you" always has a rightful place.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Fun re-reading this thread after so long. And I guess I'm set in my ways. I stand by my earlier posts.