What I learned from publishing a Loving Wives story

[EmilyMiller]

Mostly they don't, it's just that the ones who do, do loudly.

Yes, I agree with that.

Em

 

[gunhilltrain]

The problem is, though, that it will only take a fairly short amount of time before the tag-nazis replace the category-nazis, and some story tags will attract the "that doesn't belong with 'this' tag, it belongs with 'other' tag, and you are a simp" comments if a story doesn't conform to exactly what the commenter desires.

Another version of what I said yesterday: this is Literotica, not Utopia. There have been proposals here to just increase the number of categories, which is a reasonable idea but I don't expect that to ever happen. There is another site that has a lot more categories (I did a count once) and that is quite nice to have. But again, that's another site; it's not this site.

Tag Nazis replacing the category Nazis. Which ones are these?

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/imag...-2f5909b56306.jpg.pagespeed.ce.8fVKOarSEU.jpg

 

[gunhilltrain]

Mostly they don't, it's just that the ones who do, do loudly.

I'm going to refer to Carl Jung again. There are extreme outliers, but most of have the capacity to suck or not - or, to put it another way, the capacity for either good or evil, depending on circumstances among other things. He didn't counsel despair, however, but an acknowledgment and then a sort of confrontation - I can't think of the word, it's right on the tip of my tongue! - with our shadow selves, as he called it.

The LW crowd, I suspect, hasn't even acknowledged it yet.

 

[lc69hunter]

Very seldom does a pearl of wisdom come out of a Lit author, especially in LW. However, a couple days ago I was reading a cheating wife story, and the author said something about compartmentalizing, and it struck home.

So I have temporarily set aside the story I am about two thirds finished with, and am writing an essay/discussion on cheating. Not cuckolding, sharing, swapping, hotwifing or any other variation where the husband is aware and/or participating. Strictly cheating, and on how men's and women's brains tend to be wired differently, and how that affects the outcome when discovered. It will probably be published in Review and Essays and won't get the visibility it deserves, but so be it.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It could happen, but there would be far, far more tags than the number of categories we have now, so it would be possible to cover every taste and kink out there with a specific, nuanced tag. As it is now, in certain categories you can find the type of story you really like, but you can also find its exact opposite in the same category, which leads to many problems with story reception, authors changing their stories and kinks just so they would be better received and not punished by some readers etc.

Actually, there are an unlimited number of possible tags, but you're only allowed ten of them. Not perfect, but you should be able to cover it with only that many.

 

[Trionyx]

Very seldom does a pearl of wisdom come out of a Lit author, especially in LW. However, a couple days ago I was reading a cheating wife story, and the author said something about compartmentalizing, and it struck home.

So I have temporarily set aside the story I am about two thirds finished with, and am writing an essay/discussion on cheating. Not cuckolding, sharing, swapping, hotwifing or any other variation where the husband is aware and/or participating. Strictly cheating, and on how men's and women's brains tend to be wired differently, and how that affects the outcome when discovered. It will probably be published in Review and Essays and won't get the visibility it deserves, but so be it.

Let us know when you publish it. Tx.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Actually, there are an unlimited number of possible tags, but you're only allowed ten of them. Not perfect, but you should be able to cover it with only that many.

Yes, I know that. You are kinda missing the point of what we were discussing. We were talking about the idea of category system being replaced by a pure tag system. And yes, I suggested tags to be fixed. While it might seem like a good idea that we are completely free to write our own tags, there is a serious drawback with that system. Searching the database for a "cuck" tag will not link the stories that have "cuckold" tag. Searching for "femdom" tag stories, won't link the "female domination" tag stories. Not to mention that authors often misspell some tags when they submit a story. Making an abundance of fixed tags would solve these problems. Surely, after 25 years of stories, the database now has all the tags that are needed.
Of course, it is never going to happen, same as with other debatable, yet constructive ideas that many authors suggested. Our voice and influence on Lit is practically non existent.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I guess I didn't quite grasp the point of what was being discussed. Maybe it's because I don't have that much of a problem with the existing system. I'm sort of a "libertarian" in that I think people should be be able to write whatever tags they wish. Also, I've had the good fortune in that I've never had readers call me out on my choice of either tags or categories.

The only problem I can remember is that Romance readers don't like break-up stories. "Put it in Non-Erotic" they might say, for lack of any other place for it to go. Long ago I spectated about a category called "relationships" which of course has never happened.

". . . same as with other debatable, yet constructive ideas that many authors suggested. Our voice and influence on Lit is practically non existent." Yes, that is certainly true. I once used the analogy that Frank Perdue isn't concerned about what his over-roaster chickens think either.

 

[Rob_Royale]

So, in essence, it's just like the rest of the world these days, where an aggressive and vociferous small minority dominate the conversation and perceptions.

It's always been that way, but the internet has become an amplifier of that effect, giving the crazies equal standing and exposure to the more informed and reasoned majority.

I laughed at this and then was immediately sad that I had. So true that it hurts a bit.

I'm now very interested in how my current WIP will do in LW. It's about a young man who goes to work for and ends up living with, a mature couple (45-ish) with an open marriage. Very shortly, he finds himself as the wife's plus one. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Loving wives description: Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more.
There are a lot of stories in LW, which are based on wives cheating, but they are not necessarily the only option...

 

[EmilyMiller]

Loving wives description: Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more.
There are a lot of stories in LW, which are based on wives cheating, but they are not necessarily the only option...

Still don’t get the category

Em

 

[Andrew1968]

Congratulations on your Loving Wives story, Emily. I read it and enjoyed it. I think the story did relatively well in Loving Wives. It didn’t attract too many nasty comments. It was well written, and it seems you had the support of a large number of people here. I also don’t think many traditional male monogamy advocates were threatened by the story. I’m wondering if a few of the “usual LW suspects” who post nasty comments, decided not to post their comments on your story, because they got a sense that you were interested in testing the waters and reporting back on the response to the story. Maybe they thought they were going to be “guinea pigs…”

I have a 43,000-word story due to go into Loving Wives. I’m hoping it won’t take much longer to appear there. I’ve been waiting a bit. This story features cuckolding, horny manipulative hot-wives, enthralled spell bound husbands, light husband humiliation, husband chastity and other good, yummy stuff. The story is titled ‘Les Vampyres’ and I’m hoping it will receive a score of between 1 and 2 out of 5. That sort of score would be ideal for me.

Anyway, again, well done - I don’t know if you’ll ever post anything more in LW, but if you post a story in LW featuring a woman cheating on a man, or worse still, a man willingly letting his wife sleep around with someone else, than you may pick up some trolls, who will follow you about like a bad smell…

 

[TheRedChamber]

I published a story in Loving Wives as well yesterday. also my first.

(My story was published 24 hours after Emily and the numbers I'm citing are 17 hours after publication)

My numbers are score=3.22/504, views=16.2k, favouries=16, comments=32

Both Emily and I seem to have done relatively well with our stories (it feels weird saying well given it's my second lowest score ever, but true!) In terms of views, this is already my 7th (out of 26th) most viewed story in less than twenty-four hours. The comments haven't been too bad, I'd need to count the positive vs negative ones, but the worst I'm getting is that people thought it was boring or dull (compared to equal or more people saying fun and clever, so I'll survive)

I'm interested in the @NoTalentHack 's idea about 'Consequence Cheating' stories (maybe a more neutral phrase that BTB!). They do indeed seem to be rarer than Cuckold stories, but it's noticable that both Emily and I had story titles and blurbs which suggested CC.

Emily - Harper's Reckoning - Infidelity has Consequences
Mine - Goodbye, My Hot Young Wife - She must have been crazy to think I wouldn't find out

Both of us subverted the standard CC story to some extent, but played it straight with our titles and seem to have gotten amongst the most views on our respective days. There are exceptions on the list, but it does seem like the CC stories get viewed way more than the Cuckold stories - a lot of the stories with words like Cuck, Slut, Whore seem to average out at around 6k views.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Yes, I know that. You are kinda missing the point of what we were discussing. We were talking about the idea of category system being replaced by a pure tag system. And yes, I suggested tags to be fixed. While it might seem like a good idea that we are completely free to write our own tags, there is a serious drawback with that system. Searching the database for a "cuck" tag will not link the stories that have "cuckold" tag. Searching for "femdom" tag stories, won't link the "female domination" tag stories. Not to mention that authors often misspell some tags when they submit a story. Making an abundance of fixed tags would solve these problems. Surely, after 25 years of stories, the database now has all the tags that are needed.
Of course, it is never going to happen, same as with other debatable, yet constructive ideas that many authors suggested. Our voice and influence on Lit is practically non existent.

Another thing I've noticed. For the Geek Pride story I have some tags that have probably never been used on Lit. For one thing, some of them are not about sexual matters at all. But, they seem to fit the story.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I published a story in Loving Wives as well yesterday. also my first.

(My story was published 24 hours after Emily and the numbers I'm citing are 17 hours after publication)

My numbers are score=3.22/504, views=16.2k, favouries=16, comments=32

Both Emily and I seem to have done relatively well with our stories (it feels weird saying well given it's my second lowest score ever, but true!) In terms of views, this is already my 7th (out of 26th) most viewed story in less than twenty-four hours. The comments haven't been too bad, I'd need to count the positive vs negative ones, but the worst I'm getting is that people thought it was boring or dull (compared to equal or more people saying fun and clever, so I'll survive)

I'm interested in the @NoTalentHack 's idea about 'Consequence Cheating' stories (maybe a more neutral phrase that BTB!). They do indeed seem to be rarer than Cuckold stories, but it's noticable that both Emily and I had story titles and blurbs which suggested CC.

Emily - Harper's Reckoning - Infidelity has Consequences
Mine - Goodbye, My Hot Young Wife - She must have been crazy to think I wouldn't find out

Both of us subverted the standard CC story to some extent, but played it straight with our titles and seem to have gotten amongst the most views on our respective days. There are exceptions on the list, but it does seem like the CC stories get viewed way more than the Cuckold stories - a lot of the stories with words like Cuck, Slut, Whore seem to average out at around 6k views.

That’s super interesting.

Have to read your story.

Em

 

[NoTalentHack]

I'm interested in the @NoTalentHack 's idea about 'Consequence Cheating' stories (maybe a more neutral phrase that BTB!). They do indeed seem to be rarer than Cuckold stories, but it's noticable that both Emily and I had story titles and blurbs which suggested CC.

Emily - Harper's Reckoning - Infidelity has Consequences
Mine - Goodbye, My Hot Young Wife - She must have been crazy to think I wouldn't find out

Both of us subverted the standard CC story to some extent, but played it straight with our titles and seem to have gotten amongst the most views on our respective days. There are exceptions on the list, but it does seem like the CC stories get viewed way more than the Cuckold stories - a lot of the stories with words like Cuck, Slut, Whore seem to average out at around 6k views.

I think "consequences" is typically the more accurate designation, and also what most readers seem to want. There are a hardcore few that want everything from jail time to straight up death, but most people get really squeamish about "too much" consequences. The line is different for everyone, but it's also... really weird. Like, violence is right out for most people. Humiliation seems fine. The husband ending up better off is very popular.

And that's actually the way most "BTB" stories seem to be trending. There was a period where crazy, over the top scenarios seemed to be favored, but there's been a backlash against that. Lots of "there are no ninjas, special forces guys, mafia, etc. in this story" disclaimers these days. Looking at my own stories, the highest rated LW stories are:

1. Unwanted Memories - 4.7 - wife starts the story in a coma, comes out of it without any memories, and then it's her and her husband falling in love again after having a bad marriage before the coma; ultimately, they learn that she had cheated and end up staying together
2. After the Future is Gone - 4.66 for both parts - husband discovers wife with his best friend, puts his life back together, meets someone new who's also broken in her own way, they fall in love and work their way past their issues, husband meets with ex-wife who gives her side of the story and husband forgives her, then he marries his new love
3. At The End of the Tour - 4.6 - husband discovers wife has been cheating on him for the duration of their relationship with her first love, a touring musician; he lays a verbal smackdown on the wife and breaks the musician's hand
4. No Place to Go - 4.56 - sort of a one act play where a lawyer delivers a letter to a man who's lost his wife to cancer; in it, she reveals that she had a long term affair and that two of his children might not be his; there's more to it than that, but it's more about him trying to navigate a no-win situation
5. In Health - 4.54 - wife has incurable long-term disease, husband takes care of her for 15 years to the detriment of himself, CRISPR provides a cure to the disease, she decides that she wants more and leaves him; there's more to it than that, but it ends with him basically chewing his ex-wife out and lying to her on her deathbed, then walking away whistling a happy tune. People said that it was way, way too far and made him more evil than her. The comments in this one are one of the best data points I have for the idea that most readers are actually kind of squeamish about anything actually bad happening to the wife in these stories.
6. Reassessing My Life - 4.53 - guy realizes he married the wrong woman after she cheats on him, because he's mostly disappointed in himself more than her; then it's all about her trying for force him to reconcile while he tries to move on until he ends up with her sister. I think this would have scored better, but a lot of people were turned off by the new love interest having a bunch of tattoos and piercings. Worst thing that happens to the wife is that she's basically just the kind of person that's never going to be happy with what she has; MMC doesn't actually do anything to her other than divorcing her.
7. Arbitrary - 4.46 - wife wants to open marriage, guy says no, threatens to divorce, she threatens to cuckold him, he fucks his friend/ex-girlfriend in front of her to prove a point. Ends with them divorcing and him getting back with the ex-girlfriend. Most commenters were more angry at the MMC and the ex-girlfriend than the wife.
8. Fathers, Brothers, and Sons - 4.44 - husband learns one of his children isn't his; not going to spoil this one too much since it's new, but the commenters were split between disliking how harsh he was to the wife and the fact that they stayed together.

Below that are mostly stories where the characters reconcile and one where both the MMC and FMC are cheaters.

It's a broad range of story types, but here's my takeaway: the fantasy is not, usually, that the wife gets punished. It's that the husband lives a better life than he had with her, and, preferably, a better life than she lives after the divorce. Actual burning is not usually required, and even discouraged; natural consequences plus a better life for the MMC seem to be the best way forward. The thing they hate (besides cuckolding) is reconciliation; I don't have data points for swapping/sharing stories, although I'm working on one now, a lighthearted story about a happy couple in an open relationship trying to save the marriage of one of their friends through the magic of fucking other people. Well, after they almost break that marriage through the magic of fucking other people. You'll see.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Still don’t get the category

Em

Sorry, I hijacked your thread again by bringing up Carl Jung. I must be stopped before I digress again. Anyway, no reasonable person gets that category. (Assuming that Lit itself is a reasonable site, which is debatable.) Whatever the original intent was for LW, it was long ago reshaped by those people over there we now know so well.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I think "consequences" is typically the more accurate designation, and also what most readers seem to want. There are a hardcore few that want everything from jail time to straight up death, but most people get really squeamish about "too much" consequences. The line is different for everyone, but it's also... really weird. Like, violence is right out for most people. Humiliation seems fine. The husband ending up better off is very popular.

And that's actually the way most "BTB" stories seem to be trending. There was a period where crazy, over the top scenarios seemed to be favored, but there's been a backlash against that. Lots of "there are no ninjas, special forces guys, mafia, etc. in this story" disclaimers these days. Looking at my own stories, the highest rated LW stories are:
It's a broad range of story types, but here's my takeaway: the fantasy is not, usually, that the wife gets punished. It's that the husband lives a better life than he had with her, and, preferably, a better life than she lives after the divorce. Actual burning is not usually required, and even discouraged; natural consequences plus a better life for the MMC seem to be the best way forward. The thing they hate (besides cuckolding) is reconciliation; I don't have data points for swapping/sharing stories, although I'm working on one now, a lighthearted story about a happy couple in an open relationship trying to save the marriage of one of their friends through the magic of fucking other people. Well, after they almost break that marriage through the magic of fucking other people. You'll see.

I've read enough of your stories to know that you typically go with the 'firm but fair' endings. It interesting that you say things have circled back to being less extreme - I'd kind of noticed that after returning to look at the category again after the last few months. I suspect you are the one leading the charge on that development.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Anyway, no reasonable person gets that category.

I don’t get what there is to get. Extramarital sex is a taboo. Taboo things are the basis of a big chunk of erotic fantasies.

Anyway … it will be interesting to see what happens to the OP’s score after a sweep.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I don’t get what there is to get. Extramarital sex is a taboo. Taboo things are the basis of a big chunk of erotic fantasies.

Anyway … it will be interesting to see what happens to the OP’s score after a sweep.

You must be a bit tongue-in-cheek, because it is not "taboo" under Lit rules as say the age limit, or their rather contradictory and confusing non-consent policy. Anyway, as for Emily's score: mine were a better than the comments might have indicated. The "noisy minority" idea as we've talked about it. I don't think there was ever a sweep on those two submissions.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Still don’t get the category

Em

I think of it as a marriage/monogamy fetish, and park it under YKINMK.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I published a story in Loving Wives as well yesterday. also my first.

(My story was published 24 hours after Emily and the numbers I'm citing are 17 hours after publication)

My numbers are score=3.22/504, views=16.2k, favouries=16, comments=32

Both Emily and I seem to have done relatively well with our stories (it feels weird saying well given it's my second lowest score ever, but true!) In terms of views, this is already my 7th (out of 26th) most viewed story in less than twenty-four hours. The comments haven't been too bad, I'd need to count the positive vs negative ones, but the worst I'm getting is that people thought it was boring or dull (compared to equal or more people saying fun and clever, so I'll survive)

I'm interested in the @NoTalentHack 's idea about 'Consequence Cheating' stories (maybe a more neutral phrase that BTB!). They do indeed seem to be rarer than Cuckold stories, but it's noticable that both Emily and I had story titles and blurbs which suggested CC.

Emily - Harper's Reckoning - Infidelity has Consequences
Mine - Goodbye, My Hot Young Wife - She must have been crazy to think I wouldn't find out

Both of us subverted the standard CC story to some extent, but played it straight with our titles and seem to have gotten amongst the most views on our respective days. There are exceptions on the list, but it does seem like the CC stories get viewed way more than the Cuckold stories - a lot of the stories with words like Cuck, Slut, Whore seem to average out at around 6k views.

Spent most of the time reading thinking . Then the ending was more .

You played me you bastard .

Commented and rated.

Em

 

[Bazzle]

And that is exactly why categories shouldn't exist anymore. Authors often spend so much time debating in which category to put their story, since plenty of stories touch multiple categories, but those same stories are often not the mainstream for each of those categories, which leads to weird reception. Lit should just remove categories and focus on tags. This debate has been going on for a while, and even though we all know we are pissing up the wind with every single debate that concerns how Lit does certain things, it feels like these things need to be voiced occasionally if nothing to let out the frustration.

My stories have romance, exhibitionistic tendencies, they have cheating, they potentially have some dominant forces...but ultimately they are fetish stories so that's where they go!

 

[lc69hunter]

I published a story in Loving Wives as well yesterday. also my first.

(My story was published 24 hours after Emily and the numbers I'm citing are 17 hours after publication)

My numbers are score=3.22/504, views=16.2k, favouries=16, comments=32

Both Emily and I seem to have done relatively well with our stories (it feels weird saying well given it's my second lowest score ever, but true!) In terms of views, this is already my 7th (out of 26th) most viewed story in less than twenty-four hours. The comments haven't been too bad, I'd need to count the positive vs negative ones, but the worst I'm getting is that people thought it was boring or dull (compared to equal or more people saying fun and clever, so I'll survive)

I'm interested in the @NoTalentHack 's idea about 'Consequence Cheating' stories (maybe a more neutral phrase that BTB!). They do indeed seem to be rarer than Cuckold stories, but it's noticable that both Emily and I had story titles and blurbs which suggested CC.

Emily - Harper's Reckoning - Infidelity has Consequences
Mine - Goodbye, My Hot Young Wife - She must have been crazy to think I wouldn't find out

Both of us subverted the standard CC story to some extent, but played it straight with our titles and seem to have gotten amongst the most views on our respective days. There are exceptions on the list, but it does seem like the CC stories get viewed way more than the Cuckold stories - a lot of the stories with words like Cuck, Slut, Whore seem to average out at around 6k views.

You created a lot of unsavory, unlikeable characters. I could not cheer for anyone

 

[TheRedChamber]

You created a lot of unsavory, unlikeable characters. I could not cheer for anyone