What is your true opinion of "switches"?

[Netzach]

Very good point Stag. Let me use myself as an example of your points above:

This is what I'm worried about. I also happen to be a bisexual female. Just being bisexual has made it hard for me to meet women because they think I'm going to fuck around on them with a man. But the fact that I also have switch desires makes this whole deal even more frustrating for me. I'm still very new to all of this but I the one thing I do know is that I don't have to have years of switching experience to know I'm a switch. (just like I know I don't have to sleep with tons of women to know I'm bi...I just know) My brain is a "switch" brain with nothing but "switch" thoughts. (I'm not saying that couldn't slightly change in the future...with more experience I might lean more one way then the other but overall I feel I'll always be a switch to a certain degree)

I'm not one to play the field because I'm so paranoid about STD's and emotionally, I'm not sure yet if I could handle that. I am still learning my own boundaries with all of this and jumping from person to person feels like it might be overwhelming. So, that leaves me with the frustrating task of trying to find someone who matches me in all these areas. I did happen to meet someone recently who saw my ad on here in the BDSM persoals forum. He's not bisexual but he's had "bi" fantasies and a few limited "experiences" so he's not threatened by my bisexual urges. He's interested in bondage but I'm not sure yet how open he'll be to being submissive. (although he bought himself a strapon which he'd eventually like me to use on him...that's a big fantasy of mine too)

He seems to be more interested in dominating though. We've only had three dates so far but no sex just yet. (well, we got a little frisky on date #2 but we didn't have enough time to finish the deal because I had to catch a train home) I don't think either of us know what we want yet. He lives in Chicago so I don't get to see him very often and it can be hard to develope a steady "pace" when you don't get to see the person very often. But, I jumped at the chance of meeting him because he seemed interested in all the kinky things I'm interested in.

To me it seems easier to be a dom or a sub because at least you've pretty much figured out what "side" you want to play on. I feel frustrated lately because I wonder if I'll ever find someone who matches me. I even thought of possibly dating a couple but then I worried that jealous feelings might start to develope because I'd always kind of be the "third wheel".

I don't know. Guess I'll figure it out one of these days. I'm glad I started this thread because everyone has had great and thoughtful posts on here. I know it's given me things to think about.

Stick to your guns. Consider the couple thing, don't rule stuff out, stay flexible, but stick to your guns -- there ARE people, someone, someones out there who are compatible with your needs, it just may be hard to find them. The other nice thing about playing the field is that you don't HAVE to exchange bodily fluids to do that in this world, definitely look and have fun doing it.

I speak from never having thought I'd find someone who could fit my needs and accept my many sexuality-based quirks and specific terms and I did.

 

[Marquis]

I speak from never having thought I'd find someone who could fit my needs and accept my many sexuality-based quirks and specific terms and I did.

Ditto.

 

[Pleasureboy2]

Everyone is really bi-sexual to a certain degree. Some more than others. If a straight man where left on a deserted island with another straight man I can almost guarantee you that they would have sex with each other at some point in time. Same applies for women. That's why you get more homosexual activity in a prison setting.

 

[-geisha.grrrl-]

I've run into this problem as far as my bisexuality. People in the gay community have told me that there is no such thing. You're either gay and in denial, or straight and just want to experiment. Needless to say, that annoys me to no end but that's another issue for another forum.

I brought it up to relate to the fact that I've seen this same type of "hostility" towards those of us who claim we are "switches" in the BDSM community. I've already had a potential dates tell me that there's no such thing. I'm just "confused" because I haven't figured out whether I'm a dom or a sub yet.

How do you feel about switches? Especially those of you who have been established in one role for long periods of time? Are switches full just "in denial" about their true roles and too afraid to commit to one or the other? Or is it really possible to be a content switch?

I consider[ed] myself a switch, and I'm very happy with that. I think it's quite easy for a switch to be content, or peaceful, with his/her decision.

I have, however, come into contact with quite a few Dom/mes that believe there is no such thing as a switch, only a shitty submissive. I've had more than a few tell me that I'm not a switch, I just need the right person to submit to, a person who will really train me.

That's very difficult to hear, maybe not the first time but, when the 101st time of hearing it comes around, it's hard to hear and was probably the reason for my subsequent depart from the lifestyle.

~gg

 

[Soulfiregirl]

Stick to your guns. Consider the couple thing, don't rule stuff out, stay flexible, but stick to your guns -- there ARE people, someone, someones out there who are compatible with your needs, it just may be hard to find them. The other nice thing about playing the field is that you don't HAVE to exchange bodily fluids to do that in this world, definitely look and have fun doing it.

I speak from never having thought I'd find someone who could fit my needs and accept my many sexuality-based quirks and specific terms and I did.

Did I mention how much I greatly value your posts more and more as time goes on? (no? Well ok, I'm mentioning it now then.... ....)

Good points and suggestions as always. Thankyou Netzach.

 

[DVS]

I agree with Netzach. Stick to your guns.

There is such a thing as a switch. Sure, there is a scale where you will find some switches who enjoy being a Dom more and some who favor being a sub, but there are those who can enjoy literally swiinging both ways, being sub and being Dom and enjoying both equally.

Being a switch doesn't mean you must also be bisexual, although I do think there are bisexual switches, too. But, I'd consider that group smaller than just the group of hetro switches or gay/lesbian switches.

The human mind is very involved. Experts say we only tap into a very small percentage of our brain's capabilty. We are capable of doing so much more, it's astounding.

Sex is 90% brain activity and 10% physical feeling, so why can't it also true that we are not tapping into our full sexual interests and abilities? I think some people are. I'm not saying it's for everybody, but I will never say something like this isn't possible.

I've mentioned before on this forum that I personally know of a hetro couple and they are both switches. They've said their only sexual problem is deciding who's going to top whom. What could be a better life?

 

[~Blacklace~]

Well speaking as a bi Switch, I must say I love it!
I mean yes there are times when its extremly frustrating, not so much partner wise, but with the one true way elitists. It drives me insane when Im degraded and attacked for my choice or badgered with questions about it. I mean I dont mind the questions, Im free with my feelings, Im talking the ones who simply cannot wrap their minds around it and accept it, and have the negative questions. I dont expect all to understand it or like it even, but for crying out loud dont judge others and try to force your opinions on them! Same with the OTWers regarding their opinions on a 'true sub/slave'.......errrr ok I feel that turning into a rant so Ill stop now lol

In terms of partners,, yes it can be tricky. Ive been with all three. Each relationship had its own enjoyment and difficulties. Sometimes I find its hard to be with a non Switch, simply because when I do need the other I cant truly feel it from my strictly dom/sub partner whos only topping or bottoming for the night.
I think it really depends on the individual person, if your a 90/10 Dom/sub
< like me > then a 90/10 sub/Dom switch could work. Or two seperate partners is even better or a poly 'ship...Ohhhh the possibilities *grins as my mind wanders*
my post is getting confusing lol
Stand your ground and dont let the opinions of others make your choice for you, if you lock yourself into one with no outlet for the other it will only hurt you and make you unhappy, and of course we dont want that And if your still searching for your niche enjoy it and have fun.

 

[DVS]

I don't know about that LOL.

Been there.

Wasn't a problem when we both wanted to top (for us anyway) we wrestled for it (and no... the same person did not always win)

Both wanting to bottom though presented some problems... like "tag, you're Dom." That was frusterating. (I wish I were joking.)

Never heard of flipping a quarter, or playing "Rock, paper, scissors?" Or, you could just alternate days?

 

[~Blacklace~]

ooohh
Happy Birthday

 

[graceanne]

I was talking to a friend of mine that I hadn't chatted with for a while, and then I was catching up on this thread, and it reminded me of how a switch is really great in a three way relationship.

My friend is a bi sub, and her SO is a dom. But her SO works a lot, and she's not allowed to masturbate. Also, he likes having a couple of subs when he does have the time for sex. So they spent some time looking for a bi switch in their area, and finally found one! It totally solved their problems, cause when my friends SO is working a lot, he'll give her permission to have a scene with the switch, and when he's not working the switch (sorry, don't know her name) subs for him, so he has his two subs. And the switch isn't stuck being one or the other.

 

[roosterado9]

I would switch

 

[~Blacklace~]

lol Grace...thats somewhat the 'ship Im in now and so far its working out just dandy

 

[Marquis]

I've given this some thought recently.

It's no secret that I am in the camp that believes TRUE switches don't exist. I think you CAN switch if you so want. I think a lesbian can go through her whole life fucking men if she wants to, but that doesn't make her any less gay.

In any case, I've noticed that almost all the males I know that consider themselves switches are truly subs and almost all the females I know that consider themselves switches are truly dommes.

Outside of my own experience with the matter, it would make sense from a social pressure standpoint.

What say you foul switching ones?

 

[Netzach]

I've given this some thought recently.

It's no secret that I am in the camp that believes TRUE switches don't exist. I think you CAN switch if you so want. I think a lesbian can go through her whole life fucking men if she wants to, but that doesn't make her any less gay.

In any case, I've noticed that almost all the males I know that consider themselves switches are truly subs and almost all the females I know that consider themselves switches are truly dommes.

Outside of my own experience with the matter, it would make sense from a social pressure standpoint.

What say you foul switching ones?

Even having ditched the label switch for a few years now, I have to say that there's definitely a subset of people for whom power polarity is flexible, mutable, contextual, and not fixed. I remember what it was like to really flip back and forth from headspace to headspace with this wonderful glee and abandon, and sometimes I miss it.

I didn't quite "bottom up" in leather, but I certainly started as a bottom-heavy switch. I felt that being a Top was something you earn, was not where you start, and that the best way for me to learn to handle a sub/bottom was for me to start as one, even if I was hashing out some rudimentary Top skills at the same time.

My bottom phase was an interesting one. I was a leatherboi of sorts, or meant to be. I always was a femme Dominant, though, with the exception of one Daddy's day party where I got flipped right after my one attempt at topping butch. It just doesn't work that way in my world -- girls rule.
Anyhow, that experience was genuine and real to me, and valuable in the extreme -- how many FemDoms understand their boys because they once "were" one?

The subset of people who are flexible is pretty damn big, actually, if we're honest with ourselves and we so often are NOT.

How a person relates to one person versus another is never really written until you are interacting. I'm not looking to submit to another person, I don't think that would make me happy, I don't need it enough to make it a quest.... but I'm the last to say that there's not one human on the globe (esp when you are talking about female humans) to whom I'd ever willingly and happily submit. I don't let my mouth write checks my ass can't cash if I can help it, as it were.

Most of my data on female switches supports the opposite of your findings, I have noticed that most femswitches I know lean sub. So do most male switches, though. Maybe it's just more fun on the bottom and we're missing out. I certainly remember there was some fun to be had there. But there was also a lot of miscommunication and fighting what turned out to feel like an uphill battle with my nature more and more, and meeting the ideal submissive certainly made that feel more like an upstream swim. Had I met the ideal Dominant, I can't say my life would not be different, only probably a lot more conflicted and complex.

 

[Pelagie]

I don't there are any true switches that is anyone who is equally sub and dom. Can a sub be in dominant situation? Sure, but deep down they're a sub. It's the same both ways.

 

[Marquis]

I mourn for your colorblindness.

Show me the light.

 

[Marquis]

Even having ditched the label switch for a few years now, I have to say that there's definitely a subset of people for whom power polarity is flexible, mutable, contextual, and not fixed. I remember what it was like to really flip back and forth from headspace to headspace with this wonderful glee and abandon, and sometimes I miss it.

I didn't quite "bottom up" in leather, but I certainly started as a bottom-heavy switch. I felt that being a Top was something you earn, was not where you start, and that the best way for me to learn to handle a sub/bottom was for me to start as one, even if I was hashing out some rudimentary Top skills at the same time.

My bottom phase was an interesting one. I was a leatherboi of sorts, or meant to be. I always was a femme Dominant, though, with the exception of one Daddy's day party where I got flipped right after my one attempt at topping butch. It just doesn't work that way in my world -- girls rule.
Anyhow, that experience was genuine and real to me, and valuable in the extreme -- how many FemDoms understand their boys because they once "were" one?

The subset of people who are flexible is pretty damn big, actually, if we're honest with ourselves and we so often are NOT.

How a person relates to one person versus another is never really written until you are interacting. I'm not looking to submit to another person, I don't think that would make me happy, I don't need it enough to make it a quest.... but I'm the last to say that there's not one human on the globe (esp when you are talking about female humans) to whom I'd ever willingly and happily submit. I don't let my mouth write checks my ass can't cash if I can help it, as it were.

Most of my data on female switches supports the opposite of your findings, I have noticed that most femswitches I know lean sub. So do most male switches, though. Maybe it's just more fun on the bottom and we're missing out. I certainly remember there was some fun to be had there. But there was also a lot of miscommunication and fighting what turned out to feel like an uphill battle with my nature more and more, and meeting the ideal submissive certainly made that feel more like an upstream swim. Had I met the ideal Dominant, I can't say my life would not be different, only probably a lot more conflicted and complex.

This is a question of Ontology vs. Teleology.

I think there are many, many, many people who take great pleasure in switching, but at their core, are they not more apt to be on one side? You are an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

I'm not a switch by any means, but I could see a potential thrill in submitting that I'll likely never explore. Probably more to do with my ego than anything else. I still think you can fuck whoever you want however you want and it has no relation to your natural identity.

 

[Alt]

I've run into this problem as far as my bisexuality. People in the gay community have told me that there is no such thing. You're either gay and in denial, or straight and just want to experiment. Needless to say, that annoys me to no end but that's another issue for another forum.

I brought it up to relate to the fact that I've seen this same type of "hostility" towards those of us who claim we are "switches" in the BDSM community. I've already had a potential dates tell me that there's no such thing. I'm just "confused" because I haven't figured out whether I'm a dom or a sub yet.

How do you feel about switches? Especially those of you who have been established in one role for long periods of time? Are switches full just "in denial" about their true roles and too afraid to commit to one or the other? Or is it really possible to be a content switch?

You, my dear, are a star poster regardless of being Domme, sub or switch.
As far as I am concerned, I think everybody is a switch at some point. Now some people may be 99.9% Domme, but there is always that .1% in them.

I think you're running into people who are so into the roles that they sneer indifference (at the very least) at somebody who doesn't buy into their program.

I say fuck it! If I feel subbish Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, great; and if I feel a bit Dommie on Friday, so be it!

 

[Marquis]

Yes, all dissenters are Nazis.

Now all you victims can cuddle up with each other and have a love-fest, but that won't educate those of us who are apparently in the wrong.

By the way, I am much more than .1% sub. I feel pretty subby when I'm high, depressed or really tired. At least in the sense that I want someone else making decisions for me. I do like to give pleasure to people I care about, so I guess I get a few more subby points for that right?

 

[Netzach]

This is a question of Ontology vs. Teleology.

I think there are many, many, many people who take great pleasure in switching, but at their core, are they not more apt to be on one side? You are an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

I'm not a switch by any means, but I could see a potential thrill in submitting that I'll likely never explore. Probably more to do with my ego than anything else. I still think you can fuck whoever you want however you want and it has no relation to your natural identity.

Ok, fair enough. I guess I'd say the vast majority of people are switches in the sense that the vast majority of people are Kinsey bisexual. What you do with your label is your personal bidness and pretty much says more about how you see you than about what you are fucking or beating or being beaten by.

I have met people though, few and far between, admittedly, who are very close to this balanced 50/50, or their kinks run along a very complex map that you could not Venn diagram. It's just a different mindset from this D/s relational one-on-one thing that we tend to idealize, it's much more multilayered and improvisational.

But if I use my left hand for writing and my right hand for throwing a baseball...you might say I'm left handed. But what if I was in the majors? Would the opinion have to shift?

I'd probably ID as a switch to this day if it didn't invite every Top/Dom fucknut on God's Green SM earth to make an overture. That got so old I just realized I could have my selective bottom experiences better if I just surpirsed more people with them.

 

[Netzach]

Yes, all dissenters are Nazis.

Now all you victims can cuddle up with each other and have a love-fest, but that won't educate those of us who are apparently in the wrong.

By the way, I am much more than .1% sub. I feel pretty subby when I'm high, depressed or really tired. At least in the sense that I want someone else making decisions for me. I do like to give pleasure to people I care about, so I guess I get a few more subby points for that right?

LOL if I had a dime for every time the order I gave M was "goddamn it YOU pick I don't want to think about this!"

Sometimes I'm just a lazy fuck.

 

[Marquis]

Ok, fair enough. I guess I'd say the vast majority of people are switches in the sense that the vast majority of people are Kinsey bisexual. What you do with your label is your personal bidness and pretty much says more about how you see you than about what you are fucking or beating or being beaten by.

I have met people though, few and far between, admittedly, who are very close to this balanced 50/50, or their kinks run along a very complex map that you could not Venn diagram. It's just a different mindset from this D/s relational one-on-one thing that we tend to idealize, it's much more multilayered and improvisational.

I've never met anyone like this, but I submit to your superior knowledge and experience. Even though I suspect I may still disagree with you in years upcoming, I don't have the intellectual ammo to take you on yet.

But if I use my left hand for writing and my right hand for throwing a baseball...you might say I'm left handed. But what if I was in the majors? Would the opinion have to shift?

I'm right-handed, but I've used my left hand to jerk off most of my jerking life. I started off doing it because it felt less like I was giving myself a handjob, and kept up with it because I am now just better with my left hand.

I am still undeniably right-handed though. In fact, your dominant hand (or eye or lung for that matter) is something that can be seen in an MRI. Of course that opens up a physiology vs. psychology debate and I'm not in the mood for DesCartes

I'd probably ID as a switch to this day if it didn't invite every Top/Dom fucknut on God's Green SM earth to make an overture. That got so old I just realized I could have my selective bottom experiences better if I just surpirsed more people with them.

It's never stopped my overtures.

LOL if I had a dime for every time the order I gave M was "goddamn it YOU pick I don't want to think about this!"

Sometimes I'm just a lazy fuck.

Word. Up.

 

[Marquis]

Sorry dude, I'm straight.

BTW, having someone else make your decisions is not necesarily submissive, as I have discovered. There was someone I used to Switch with who, when She was feeling more Dominant, would Tell me to choose, where we were going to eat for example.

At times it felt like She was testing me... and, as I later found out, She was in a way. She told me later that She liked it when I would stop agonizing that nothing sounded appealing to me and just go when She said that... which is certainly understandable I guess... No one likes a whiney bitch.

SO all I really had to do to "pass" was choose a place quickly, and go with it (she liked variety). Choosing a place she liked was... extra credit

And, thinking back, I can think of times when I've done similar things in a relationship where I was in charge. "You pick a place to eat, and make it quick. I'm so hungry my stomach hurts, and nothing sounds appetizing.. "

Does that mean I'm subbing at that moment? Absolutely not.

Hmm, could be I'm even less submissive than I thought.

 

[Netzach]

I was thinking about this recently actually. I remember saying to M "I'd let you top me, any time, you know how much I trust and love you....and I've had fun making you top me in the past...

but after this year I don't think I ever want to bottom AGAIN!!!"

He said "that's because you're a control nut."

I guess if my bottoming jones is overfulfilled by the craziness of illness rather than being increased by it, I should know I'm a control nut and not much of a switch, really.

 

[Marquis]

I've only known a few people whom I would say are 100% one way or the other(In person)

If you count the folks on here, that pinch of sand becomes a handful, though I can't say I really know most of the people on here.

I digress...

You Marquis, are one of the few people I would say are completely Dom.

I've also noticed that a fair number of "whole grain dominants" are loathe to acknowledge the validity of switches, prefering instead the safety of absolutes.

And by the way, enjoying someone else's pleasure on occasion doesn't make you sub. In fact, it's one of my favorite things when I'm Dominant; knowing that I can make someone melt the way I do (oh yeah.. I haven't mentioned rescently, I'm a massage therapist).

Could be that my nature predisposes me to a lack of perspective on the gray area, I don't deny this. However, my instincts tell me you are a very alpha sub. Perhaps one day the right woman will be able to convince you of this better than I can.